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LTTP: Death Stranding

Guilty_AI

Member
I'm a huge fan of the MGS saga, played everything from the first one to V, including Peace Walker and Rising revengeance. Naturally i wouldn't let the most recent game by Kojima Productions slip through my radar.

==//==

First of all, i will adress the most controversial aspect of it: the gameplay

The gameplay loop is easily one of the strongest aspects of the game for me. Lots of people say its boring or that its just an "walking simulator" but i didn't get that impression at all, much the contrary. The open world, the progression system, the types of mission, everything was clearly design in a way to never make players feel "detached" from the game (a feeling you could easily get playing No Mans Sky for example).

You're always doing something, theres always something that requires your attention, like finding a way to safely climb a mountain, descending a steep slope, planning your route, going through BT territory, fighting off MULEs and Terrorists, considering wheter or not to take a bunch of lost cargo you found, fixing and preparing routes to make sure your next journey will be easier, "do I ditch my bike now to go on foot or risk going through with it?", etc... ironically, at the beginning of each delivery, instead of feeling i was out for another fetch quest and yawning, I would instead be rather tense pondering if i would make it with the cargo in one piece, especially when i was going through uncharted territory.

The only "boring" moments, where i was literally doing nothing but pressing forward, were the ones right before getting to my destination. Those were the "breathers", after passing through every obstacle, seeing the bunker in the distance, knowing i had made it with the cargo safe, it was when i could finally stop holding my breath and just enjoy the moment.

The progression system is also really good. Nothing beats the feeling of going through a bunch of dificulties, to then receive tools that would help me with exactly that, only for the game spike the dificulty even higher next time.
"Damn, MULES are such a pain to deal with, do I really have to struggle with them like that every time?"
"Fear not player, heres a bola gun to aid you"
"Great! That'll help me a lot but.. did their number just increase?"
"Fear not player, heres an upgraded bola gun with even more ammo"
"Ok, but why do they also have guns now?"
The whole game progresses like that.

I do have a big criticism towards the gameplay however, and that is the boss fights.

I spend the majority of the game learning how to safely deliver packages, thats the game.
Then why the hell i'm sundelly forced to fight some guy/monster as if this was an action game? Even worse, i HAVE to defeat them in order to progress, It feels completely disconnected from the rest of the game.
It'd make more sense as a boss fight if my objective wasn't necessarely defeat the boss but to run away from it, try getting to my destination with my package safe while fending off the boss. (light spoilers) Kinda like it happened at the end of the game, before the boss fight with the giant whale

I'd give this aspect a 10/10, but i'll reduce one point due to the issue with boss fights, so 9/10

I suppose the reason why people criticized the gameplay so much was due to the simple fact that it isn't for everyone.
This game was advertised and shown to a public thats used to fast paced action games, a public that'd naturally twist their nose at stuff like Euro Truck SImulator, Football manager or Factorio, and death stranding seems closer to that class of games.

==//==

Now the second aspect of the game: the story.

I actually didn't like the story of the game very much. It relies too much on dream-ish sequences or stuff you can never tell how much real it is, then on top of that its constantly holding out information on us that isn't explained until much later. It makes the whole thing too hard to follow (and hard to care as a consequence). I didn't like the characters all that much either, perhaps only with the exception of Sam himself.

Sam's is basically a generic action hero (tragic past, talks little, distance himself from others, grumpy voice, the best on his line of work, etc) but put on a completely different role than the one we're used to seeing them. He isn't a soldier, a cop, a criminal, a mercenary, nor anything of of the sort. He's just a delivery guy, he doesn't do dirt work he just delivers stuff, something that isn't just harmless but also undoubtedly beneficial for everyone involved. That does creates some interesting dynamics between him and the rest of that world, as well as how we perceive this kind of character.

Talking about the world, thats another aspect i did like about the game. The setting is definitely interesting, which makes walking about a good experience.
That said, the explanations you get on e-mails and interviews can a be a bit too much with all the pseudo-science stuff.

Now, even though i didn't like much of the story itself, i did like how well weaved into the gamplay it was. I'll talk about it but there'll be spoilers.

At some point we learned that middle knot city was wiped out with a nuclear bomb that was sliped in as an order amongst the cargo Fragile was supposed to deliver. Then later we also learned of the existence of a lake that sucked everything to its bottom, perfect for disposing of stuff like bodies or contaminated cargo (one of the side quests we do for the junk dealer).
Then, Higgs appears in disguise and gives us a nuclear bomb in the form of an order to be delivered to south knot city. If you even so much as glance at the description of the package (something you might do due to the weirdness of the situation), everything will click in your head at that moment. Whats going on and what you're supposed to do. It easily became one of my favorite gaming moments.

Another twist that pleasantly caught me by surprise (more so than the stuff with Amelie and Bridget being the same person as well as an EE or whatever, or even war veteran being Sam's father) was finding out the Peter guy i was delivering pizza to was actually Higgs.

I initially thought they were just a joke of the game that also doubled as some interesting challenges, but i did engage with them. Imagining there was some weird guy out there that was really fanatic with pizza, i even rebuilt half the roads of the country just to get his pizza delivered safely in time. Finding out the truth shocked me because it completely changed the perspective i had on those missions, they weren't just a joke, it was Higgs messing with Sam by making him do hard and stupid errands (or maybe he just really liked pizza, i don't know)

I'd give the story just a 5 or 6/10, but considering they did a good job matching story and gameplay (something not many AAA games know how to do properly), i'll raise it to a 7/10


TL;DR:
Gameplay is definitely good, although not for everyone.
Story isn't that great, but it weaves well into gameplay


Well, those were my impressions, but there's still one more thing.... MiyazakiHatesKojima MiyazakiHatesKojima GETT ITTT
 
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RyRy93

Member
More GOTY awards than any other game in 2019, probably my third favourite game of last gen.

I loved the story despite the expo dumps and cheesiness, it's very unique with some amazing and enigmatic characters.

The gameplay is so simple on the surface but there's no open-world clutter and navigating environments using the tools at your disposal combined with a bit of cooperation with other players made it very addictive and unlike anything else I've played.
 
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I thought the best part by far was the crazy story and of course the port being amazingly optimized.
 
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Vol5

Member
Incredible game with truly emergent gameplay. To call this a walking simulator is doing the game a huge disservice.

The customisation of Sam could be improved (I mean his look and his suits, etc) as well as the drop off locations (they are all a bit samey) but apart from that, its a brilliant, intelligent and fun game.
 
I'm waiting for a PS5 patch and then I'll finish it.

MGS is one of my favorite game series, but Death Stranding didn't grab me as much as I've had hoped.
 

Outlier

Member
130Hrs and did all side (or almost all. don't remember) deliveries... Lost respect for Kojima and traded in immediately, after completion.

GREAT GRAPHICS, but...

Lame main story, worthless side deliveries that had NO effect on the story (making it all a waste of time, of busy work), HORRIBLE main cast behaviors (no one seemed human), completely undeserved final boss battle, and worst of all... BORING GAMEPLAY (after upgrades make traversal trivial, and weak enemy encounters.


TLDR: GAME SUCKED. :messenger_pouting:
 

entremet

Member
Great game. Currently playing it on PS4. Very relaxing and I agree. The main loop is very fun. I think because of the little things. Your character has weight, so he's fun to control. The landscape is also very varied and fascinating, forcing more exploration.

It's looking to be my favorite Kojima game since MGS3.
 
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TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
If you go in with the right mindset and are in the right mood, it can be an amazing experience. Easily one of my favorite games of all time. The art direction, music, and gameplay just gelled so well for me.
Seems like the perfect game for comfy sessions on the couch and big tv, with no rush at all and willing to spend a lot of time on it.

As I said I know nothing about the story or even the things you do in game (avoided most of the promo material), but just the setting and the atmosphere seems enough to make me wanna play it. :messenger_ok:

It also seems to very divisive, which for me translates into being an interesting and original game.
 
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x@3f*oo_e!

Member
9/10 but :
  • Stealth sucks, hiding from BT's was a horrible chore - getting caught was marginally more fun
  • Mule combat was a big step down from MGSV - it was similar, but not the same/half as good
  • Game needs to stop throwing the same pointless deliveries at you when you've completed them N times
  • Floaty carrier was great, but underused - it was way too easy to drive a full truck almost everywhere, including the tops of mountains - for the same reason ladders and ropes where woefully underused.
It needed some tuning on gameplay.

No comment on plot - I knew it would be Kojima odd, didn't have hopes, wasn't disappointed. Strangely for me I quiet enjoyed the 'on the beach' ending thing - usually I hate stuff like that
 

x@3f*oo_e!

Member
What idiot put the BT alert on the main road to the port city (every f-ing time), where the BTs don't even see you. And then make it an unskippable cutscene that f up your driving on a narrow road with drops on each side.

Then make the cutscene skippable a couple a months after launch, after I've finished playing it. ??!?!?!?
 
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I agree with the story being well-integrated into the game-play, almost to a fault, in my opinion. After finishing the story, I tried going back to the side-quests, because I enjoyed the game-play loop, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. It just felt empty afterwards, like... What's the point in doing it when all is said and done, you know? Also, Kojima should've spaced out the majority of Cliff's cut-scenes, instead of at the end where Kojima gives us a 1-2 hour cut-scene. I get that you also see him in flashbacks with BB/Lou, but I felt detached to his character up until the very end, when I started to enjoy watching him. Speaking of BB/Lou, I love the companion system they integrated with him. It's reminiscent of the buddy system in MGS5. It tied well with the progression of the story as you grow more fonder of him and his company. In missions where he's not present, you can feel his absence, and it only made you miss him more. Having him back put a smile to my face. One character I didn't really like was Higgs. Just something about him. It could be his face and the fact it's played by Troy Baker. I'm sorry, I'm just so tired of seeing/hearing him in every game in existence.

Game is good, but it's a hard one to recommend, even to Metal Gear Solid fans. I bought it when it first came out, but only got around finishing it a month ago, because of the stigma surrounding the 'boring' game-play.

Edit: I forgot the music. Jesus Christ, the music. Maybe because it's not my kind of music, but it felt so goddamn pretentious in 90% of the game.
 
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130Hrs and did all side (or almost all. don't remember) deliveries... Lost respect for Kojima and traded in immediately, after completion.

GREAT GRAPHICS, but...

Lame main story, worthless side deliveries that had NO effect on the story (making it all a waste of time, of busy work), HORRIBLE main cast behaviors (no one seemed human), completely undeserved final boss battle, and worst of all... BORING GAMEPLAY (after upgrades make traversal trivial, and weak enemy encounters.


TLDR: GAME SUCKED. :messenger_pouting:
It took you 130 hours to conclude you don't like the game?
 
130Hrs and did all side (or almost all. don't remember) deliveries... Lost respect for Kojima and traded in immediately, after completion.

GREAT GRAPHICS, but...

Lame main story, worthless side deliveries that had NO effect on the story (making it all a waste of time, of busy work), HORRIBLE main cast behaviors (no one seemed human), completely undeserved final boss battle, and worst of all... BORING GAMEPLAY (after upgrades make traversal trivial, and weak enemy encounters.


TLDR: GAME SUCKED. :messenger_pouting:

You spent 130hrs on a game you hated?
 

Guilty_AI

Member
Edit: I forgot the music. Jesus Christ, the music. Maybe because it's not my kind of music, but it felt so goddamn pretentious in 90% of the game.
Wasn't too much into the Low roar stuff, and i do think they felt somewhat out of place.
However the original score was really good, i won't let you say that part was bad.




 

Outlier

Member
You spent 130hrs on a game you hated?
I wanted the find out the payoff. I expected something great to happen, at least by the end. That's why I'm so upset, about it.

That and I did a lot of exploring, hoping there'd by more than just pretty vistas.
 
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Wasn't too much into the Low roar stuff, and i do think they felt somewhat out of place.
However the original score was really good, i won't let you say that part was bad.





You're right, there should've been more of this. It sounds beautiful and fits well with the game.

Low Roar, however, sounds like hipster garbage.
 

Northeastmonk

Gold Member
Some of the best moments for me were picking a steep part of a mountain or a drop with parts of the mountain sticking out like platforms and throwing myself down. The game was surviving that fall or making sure you don’t destroy your cargo in the process. If you could simulate mountain climbing or capture the thrills of overcoming an obstacle. Death Stranding utilizes that sort of potential. It’s like standing on big rock and keeping your balance. Death Stranding had me prepared for the environment versus preparing for a fight.
 

#Phonepunk#

Banned
loved this game so much. Miyazaki's most polished work yet, with awesome and addictive gameplay, and hyper detailed cutscenes. I remember being surprised by how fun it was to grind out missions. Everything you do in the game is rewarded in some way, and long into the endgame I was still finding fun and new ways to traverse the old landscapes
(that zip-line really is one of the best endgame items ever)
. Perfectly paced, with lots of lavish attention delivered to the most minute details, and all the polish given that was denied to MGSV:TPP. This is a masterpiece of gaming.

I love love love the old school sci fi feel of it all. it feels like an apocalyptic 1970's sci fi movie. the Zen meditative nature of just walking up a mountain, considering small actions that other games entirely reject. the story is supernatural and crazy because the gameplay is the most realistic, down-to-Earth problem solving, the kind that humans have had to deal with since day one. How do you navigate terrain? How do you carry or transport things? How does the geography work with gravity to create obstacles? The decision to make all inventory items take up physical space and impact your equip load (and, consequently, your balance, the most important new gameplay mechanic) is a brilliant one. in every game we allow for the fiction of the DOOM guy carrying a half dozen guns AND a rocket launcher all with full ammo on his person and still be able to move at a quickened pace. DS says, "What if we treated this like real life?" and suddenly a whole new level of immersion opens up. now if you pick up a gun, you have to carry that weight around.

the online elements are just icing on the cake, you are being rewarded for every traversal with an easier or more interesting time traversing it the next time. every time you unlock a bunker and connect it to the network, you unlock the ability to see & use the tools left behind by other players. what you build and leave behind goes to other players as well. the more you play the game and help yourself by building the world, the more other players also help you. Kojima has crafted this levelling curve for the world that unlocks rather nicely, and players go from placing ladders to something nearing levitation in their unending quest to deliver.

visually and sonically, it has that alienated 70's sci fi feeling. that feeling is encouraged by casting Lindsay Wagner, who was in The Six Million Dollar Man, a 1970's classic sci fi about body modification. The acting of her as well as Mads and Norman are all wonderful and emotive. The story had me really going. The shit in late game where you discover the truth was just flooring, I was legit sobbing at times. I love the religious/mystical/supernatural elements in this one, it feels like a return to MGS3-style storytelling.

Bravo, Kojima!
 

Guilty_AI

Member
I have yet to play Death Stranding but heard a lot of good things about it.

Here’s a video that will make you appreciate the game even more:

He makes some interesting points regarding instantaneous gratification. I do think thats one thing that plagues a lot of games today (not just games really), multiplayer games especially seem to feed on those feelings.
I remember i was talking about games with someone once, and they straight up told me that if a game "wasn't fun" within 5 minutes or so, they'd drop it. It shocked me quite a bit honestly.
 

Jtibh

Banned
loved this game so much. Miyazaki's most polished work yet, with awesome and addictive gameplay, and hyper detailed cutscenes. I remember being surprised by how fun it was to grind out missions. Everything you do in the game is rewarded in some way, and long into the endgame I was still finding fun and new ways to traverse the old landscapes
(that zip-line really is one of the best endgame items ever)
. Perfectly paced, with lots of lavish attention delivered to the most minute details, and all the polish given that was denied to MGSV:TPP. This is a masterpiece of gaming.

I love love love the old school sci fi feel of it all. it feels like an apocalyptic 1970's sci fi movie. the Zen meditative nature of just walking up a mountain, considering small actions that other games entirely reject. the story is supernatural and crazy because the gameplay is the most realistic, down-to-Earth problem solving, the kind that humans have had to deal with since day one. How do you navigate terrain? How do you carry or transport things? How does the geography work with gravity to create obstacles? The decision to make all inventory items take up physical space and impact your equip load (and, consequently, your balance, the most important new gameplay mechanic) is a brilliant one. in every game we allow for the fiction of the DOOM guy carrying a half dozen guns AND a rocket launcher all with full ammo on his person and still be able to move at a quickened pace. DS says, "What if we treated this like real life?" and suddenly a whole new level of immersion opens up. now if you pick up a gun, you have to carry that weight around.

the online elements are just icing on the cake, you are being rewarded for every traversal with an easier or more interesting time traversing it the next time. every time you unlock a bunker and connect it to the network, you unlock the ability to see & use the tools left behind by other players. what you build and leave behind goes to other players as well. the more you play the game and help yourself by building the world, the more other players also help you. Kojima has crafted this levelling curve for the world that unlocks rather nicely, and players go from placing ladders to something nearing levitation in their unending quest to deliver.

visually and sonically, it has that alienated 70's sci fi feeling. that feeling is encouraged by casting Lindsay Wagner, who was in The Six Million Dollar Man, a 1970's classic sci fi about body modification. The acting of her as well as Mads and Norman are all wonderful and emotive. The story had me really going. The shit in late game where you discover the truth was just flooring, I was legit sobbing at times. I love the religious/mystical/supernatural elements in this one, it feels like a return to MGS3-style storytelling.

Bravo, Kojima!
Miyazakis work?????
 
There was a lot I liked about this game. Norman Reedus kind of killed it for me, tho. Didn't like him in TWD or anything else he's been in, so no surprise, I guess.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
(that zip-line really is one of the best endgame items ever)
That isn't an endgame gear though, I got it halfway through the game. I suppose its just one of those items you get by doing side-quests.
 
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Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
I can recognize it has interesting gameplay and story but I absolutely despise having celebrities as characters. I know most people don’t have issue with this but for me it’s a deal breaker.
 
DS says, "What if we treated this like real life?" and suddenly a whole new level of immersion opens up. now if you pick up a gun, you have to carry that weight around.
That's one of the things I liked about this, too. When you scan the environment and spot the uneven terrain, it gives you the sense that it's a platformer. Should I go the longer, but easier route, or should I risk it and reap the benefits? Kojima and his team somehow made this hiking simulator that much more enjoyable.

I can recognize it has interesting gameplay and story but I absolutely despise having celebrities as characters. I know most people don’t have issue with this but for me it’s a deal breaker.
I don't like it either, but it's Kojima, and he's all up in that celebrity BS. I remember watching some insignificant cut-scene and thinking to myself, "what did this actor/actress do that an original character couldn't have achieved?"
It's nice, but it seems like a waste of money to me.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
I just don’t like it, in video games I want original character designs.
I also prefer original characters myself, but it seems a waste to thrown aside a game you believe might be good just because it uses real actors, it feels like such a minor thing.
 
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x@3f*oo_e!

Member
That isn't an endgame gear though, I got it halfway through the game. I suppose its just one of those items you get by doing side-quests.
tbh once you get the zip-line the game is pretty much over. Spend the rest of the game building massive zipline network. Could have done deilveries in my shorts.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
I also prefer original characters myself, but it seems like a waste to thrown aside a game you believe might be good just because it uses real actors, it seems like such a minor thing.
Well they are people who won’t touch a game just because it has “anime” artstyle, it’s kind same for me with celebrities in video games.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
tbh once you get the zip-line the game is pretty much over. Spend the rest of the game building massive zipline network. Could have done deilveries in my shorts.
I tried doing that actually, but theres limited chiral bandwidth so its not like you can just throw zip lines everywhere.
Also, i slowly realized there were still more efficient ways of transportation (rebuilding roads for example), and i ended up using zip-lines only in regions where the settlements were close by each other, usually around a knot city.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
Well they are people who won’t touch a game just because it has “anime” artstyle, it’s kind same for me with celebrities in video games.
I think thats stupid too, but then again, not touching a game just because it has real people feels like an equally dumb reason to me.
But fair enough, I can't force you to change your mind on that.
 

x@3f*oo_e!

Member
I tried doing that actually, but theres limited chiral bandwidth so its not like you can just throw zip lines everywhere.
Also, i slowly realized there were still more efficient ways of transportation (rebuilding roads for example), and i ended up using zip-lines only in regions where the settlements were close by each other, usually around a knot city.
I needed to piggy back some other peoples towers, but eventually basically did it. Most of mine were at or close to the distance limit (330m?) to minimise the number needed.
 

Hugare

Member
Loved the game

Vehicles completely break the gameplay loop tho. Once I got a bike, I just put things on it and drove places. The truck is even more op.

Story was complete nonsense, with some cringy dialogue that was sometimes hard to watch, but with such good presentation and camera direction that I pulled through
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
I think thats stupid too, but then again, not touching a game just because it has real people feels like an equally dumb reason to me.
But fair enough, I can't force you to change your mind on that.
Look I know its not big deal for majority of people but heavy story game like Death Stranding which I need to care about the characters, it hard for me to connect with them when only thing I see the main character as “is the guy who was in TWD” rather than the character who is part that world.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
Look I know its not big deal for majority of people but heavy story game like Death Stranding which I need to care about the characters, it hard for me to connect with them when only thing I see the main character as “is the guy who was in TWD” rather than the character who is part that world.
Well, i never watched or cared about TWD, so i suppose that might've helped my case.
That said, as i said in the OP, i didn't think the story was that great anyway so i wouldn't recommend it for someone looking for story heavy games regardless.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
I needed to piggy back some other peoples towers, but eventually basically did it. Most of mine were at or close to the distance limit (330m?) to minimise the number needed.
Kinda interesting how different people played this game in very different manners. The other guy said he was using bikes and trucks for everything. I know others who just sort of power through the map with speed skeletons. I myself built roads for long distance and zip-lines for short distances, though i'd still walk when the objective was in unconventional locations.
I suppose its really all about how you build your supply network
 
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x@3f*oo_e!

Member
Creating 'human' characters from scratch seems hard. Look at the mannequins in SE's Marvel Avengers ..

Using real actors is a great shortcut .. if you don't have a problem with recognition - using good actors who aren't hollywood is a good choice since it minimises the problem with "that's the guy/gal in X'.

I'd not seen Walking Dead though - might have felt different (dissonance) if I was familiar with the series
 
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