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LTTP: FFVIIR | Not a fan

Kev Kev

Gold Member
Because XV’s characters and world building were dog shit, it needed a 2h CG Movie, a 5 episode anime and a prequel game and 3 DLC’s and fucking directors cut to make the characters even feel relatable
before crisis, dirge of cerberus, crisis core, last order, advent children and intergrade.

oh look at that, a mobile game, two spin offs, an anime, a 2 hour movie and a DLC.

you dont need to watch or play any of the FF15 compilation material, but you can if you want and it will make the experience better. same goes for the ff7 remake project and it's compilation material.

even so, if you insist, there are summary videos that you can watch in 10 minutes that will explain many of those details if you dont want to dive into the compilation material but still want to understand the plot more. here is one for ff7 remake, for example... im sure there are plenty for FF15 as well...

 

Swift_Star

Member
Is outdated alright. You could like it or not it dosen't change that fact.

You have linearity (which is fine) and then you have "walking inside a tube".

So, I'm happy you like it. But for me, Square Enix has been a disappointment for year now. (Basically since his inception). But hardcore FF14 fans are pretty excited for 16.

I hope Square Enix finally makes Final Fantasy justice.
That’s your opinion, not a fact.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
FFVII Remake April 2020, FFVII Rebirth Winter 2023 maybe 2024... you think FFVII P3 will be out 9 years after?

Just lmao the development is going great. The hyperbole here stays the same however

Well here's hoping part 3 is also nearly finished once part 2 ships. Could be a year afterward but its Square. So probably not lol.
 

FingerBang

Member
Because XV’s characters and world building were dog shit, it needed a 2h CG Movie, a 5 episode anime and a prequel game and 3 DLC’s and fucking directors cut to make the characters even feel relatable
Yes! All that and still being better than that absolute pile of shit that FFVIIR is! Can you imagine?
 

Swift_Star

Member
This is just patently wrong, and your fanboyism and trolling for internet clout points is really showing.

it's actually seven episodes of anime, a prequel and a sequel novel and five DLC's, on top of the movie, games, and demos. Duh.

So blinded by hate!
Yeah, it’s terrible. rofif rofif you played the game recently with all the patches, that’s why you Didn’t need to watch anything.
Those of us that played at launch had to watch everything because the story wasn’t all in the game and there were three forced DLCs if you wanted to get all of the story. It’s a game that soured long time fans.
 
before crisis, dirge of cerberus, crisis core, last order, advent children and intergrade.

oh look at that, a mobile game, two spin offs, an anime, a 2 hour movie and a DLC.

you dont need to watch or play any of the FF15 compilation material, but you can if you want and it will make the experience better. same goes for the ff7 remake project and it's compilation material.

even so, if you insist, there are summary videos that you can watch in 10 minutes that will explain many of those details if you dont want to dive into the compilation material but still want to understand the plot more. here is one for ff7 remake, for example... im sure there are plenty for FF15 as well...

If you don’t watch kingsglaive the entirety of the beginning runs incredibly hollow. Them leaving insomnia was completely rushed in the game and just looks stupid, with the context of kingsglaive you find out The King’s intention.

You lack reading comprehension. Listing off a bunch of projects set mostly after ffvii have nothing to do with needing to watch something to fully understand a bunch of intentions within the actual game.

Everything I listed was needed to make FFXV a whole game, everything you listed is not needed for FFVII Remake to make sense, basic exception for crisis core
 

rofif

Gold Member
Yeah, it’s terrible. rofif rofif you played the game recently with all the patches, that’s why you Didn’t need to watch anything.
Those of us that played at launch had to watch everything because the story wasn’t all in the game and there were three forced DLCs if you wanted to get all of the story. It’s a game that soured long time fans.
so I've heard.
And the whole "night city" was not in original release at the end too ?
 

Filben

Member
I'm with you. I dragged myself some 20 hours into it and it doesn't get any better, just more and more over the top full anime style with ridiculous characters, dialogues, sequences and a protagonist who is so """mysterious""" and introvert and emotionless and awkward and grumpy and I can't find a single fact why I should care about or like him.

Also the liniarity and lack of rewarding exploration.

It's just not my cup of tea.

Oh, Tifa looks nice though.
 

Swift_Star

Member
I'm with you. I dragged myself some 20 hours into it and it doesn't get any better, just more and more over the top full anime style with ridiculous characters, dialogues, sequences and a protagonist who is so """mysterious""" and introvert and emotionless and awkward and grumpy and I can't find a single fact why I should care about or like him.

Also the liniarity and lack of rewarding exploration.

It's just not my cup of tea.

Oh, Tifa looks nice though.
I don’t understand why people that don’t like anime keep playing JRPGs.
They are always shonen-like. It’s just how the genre is.
Yes, there are a few exceptions, but the majority are like anime.
 

Batiman

Member
Ya it was disappointing to me. Remade environments and boss battles were great but mostly everything else was mediocre for me. I dropped it early on but went back a few months later to finish it. Side quests and NPCs were horrible
 

Filben

Member
I don’t understand why people that don’t like anime keep playing JRPGs.
It's not that I "keep playing" them, I occasionally try out a game that is critically acclaimed. And because I grew up with some JRPGs that aren't like that because there was no voice-overs, no acting; the overly dramatic act wasn't staged back then like today. Dialogue was never or rarely great, yep, but I can deal with one or two flaws.

Recently I just finished Cosmic Star Heroine that is heavily JRPG inspired and I had a blast with it!

Anyways, I'm always giving games or genres a second chance, especially when a game is highly praised that's why I sometimes try out again the same game or genre. I usually don't like base building RTS games as well but I still played SC2 and AoE 2 to see how "the pinnacle" suits me.
 

Kev Kev

Gold Member
If you don’t watch kingsglaive the entirety of the beginning runs incredibly hollow. Them leaving insomnia was completely rushed in the game and just looks stupid, with the context of kingsglaive you find out The King’s intention.

You lack reading comprehension. Listing off a bunch of projects set mostly after ffvii have nothing to do with needing to watch something to fully understand a bunch of intentions within the actual game.

Everything I listed was needed to make FFXV a whole game, everything you listed is not needed for FFVII Remake to make sense, basic exception for crisis core
Both myself and another poster are telling you no, you don’t, bc we both understood the game fine. Maybe you need to work on your comprehension skills if you need that much supplemental material to understand it.

Neither game requires you to digest the compilation material
 

Swift_Star

Member
It's not that I "keep playing" them, I occasionally try out a game that is critically acclaimed. And because I grew up with some JRPGs that aren't like that because there was no voice-overs, no acting; the overly dramatic act wasn't staged back then like today. Dialogue was never or rarely great, yep, but I can deal with one or two flaws.

Recently I just finished Cosmic Star Heroine that is heavily JRPG inspired and I had a blast with it!

Anyways, I'm always giving games or genres a second chance, especially when a game is highly praised that's why I sometimes try out again the same game or genre. I usually don't like base building RTS games as well but I still played SC2 and AoE 2 to see how "the pinnacle" suits me.
JRPGs didn’t have voice overs before FFX. Cosmic star is not a Japanese game.
What I’m saying is: JRPGs are like shonen anime, if you don’t like them, you won’t like JRPGs in general. Maybe one or two.
 

R6Rider

Gold Member
Never played the original beyond a few minutes at a friends house and watching them play.

Gave the demo/trial of FF7R a try and didn't like it. WOuld be willing to give it another chance eventually, but I have too many other games to enjoy right now.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Yes, exactly. That's why they are more bearable for me. As I said, voice acting and the general acting (as in modern cutscenes) in modern JRPGs make them difficult to bear. That wasn't the case in the FFVI days (which I really liked).

That, but also, even with full voice acting I find it a bit easier to stomach if the game actually has an anime art style, because then it "fits". In FFVIIR, with its realistic-ish art style, the anime overacting just feels completely off to me. But I also find it easier to bear with Japanese VO, because I'm used to it there. In English it just doesn't work for me. (Can you set the western version of the game to Japanese with subtitles?)
 
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Dynasty8

Member
While I really liked the "Remake", I can understand why others who never played the original wouldn't.

The "Remake" caters more to the fans of the original. In fact, there are many story moments that might make no sense unless you played the original. Plus the original does a MUCH better job providing the overall story to the player...the "Remake" breaks it down into multiple games, dlcs and other things. As for the linearity, the original game opened up more after leaving Midgar, which happens to be the end of the "Remake".

We'll see how the Rebirth plays out, but I don't have my hopes up, even as a die hard fan.
 
Both myself and another poster are telling you no, you don’t, bc we both understood the game fine. Maybe you need to work on your comprehension skills if you need that much supplemental material to understand it.

Neither game requires you to digest the compilation material
There’s literally absolutely no way you had any idea what actually happened in base FFXV with Noctis escaping Insomnia.

He gets a text or a phone call and Cor says eyyo and thats basically it. Dying on this hill is beneath you mate, you are ignoring reality
 

Meicyn

Gold Member
I don’t understand why people that don’t like anime keep playing JRPGs.
They are always shonen-like. It’s just how the genre is.
Yes, there are a few exceptions, but the majority are like anime.
When they say they don’t like anime, what they really mean is they hate awkward, stilted dialogue, padded further by incessant, unnecessary gasping and grunting.



Final Fantasy XIV is weeb as fuck, and I love it. Take for example, this:


In the first two minutes, you hear one single grunt. Just one. If Nomura were directing, there would have been at least ten, minimum.

The iconic opening train scene for FF7 Remake has 20+ gasps and grunts. It’s so awkward, and it really doesn’t need to be. Why does Barret’s first line in the game need to be a verbal “hhnnnnn” as he nods to Jessie, Biggs, and Wedge? Why can’t he just nod like a normal person would? Why does every character need to vocalize even the slightest movement in cutscenes?

Sometimes, less is more.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
When they say they don’t like anime, what they really mean is they hate awkward, stilted dialogue, padded further by incessant, unnecessary gasping and grunting.



Final Fantasy XIV is weeb as fuck, and I love it. Take for example, this:


In the first two minutes, you hear one single grunt. Just one. If Nomura were directing, there would have been at least ten, minimum.

The iconic opening train scene for FF7 Remake has 20+ gasps and grunts. It’s so awkward, and it really doesn’t need to be. Why does Barret’s first line in the game need to be a verbal “hhnnnnn” as he nods to Jessie, Biggs, and Wedge? Why can’t he just nod like a normal person would? Why does every character need to vocalize even the slightest movement in cutscenes?

Sometimes, less is more.

I feel like this shit is so overblown. Like someone saw the opening movie when they dropped it like four months out from release and went "hurrrr anime noises lame," and everyone else just parroted the idea. FFVIIR doesn't even approach the most excessive examples of "anime grunts," If anything, I think it's more the fault of the sound design, because those sounds, mixed down properly, would help sell a scene, not the opposite. The issue is that they're all front and center in the mix, at the same volume and clarity as actual voiced lines of dialogue.

People make audible sounds when they move and breathe and shit, but the level of projection I put forth getting up from a chair is less than it is when I'm having a conversation with someone.
 

Lokaum D+

Member
XV is amazing !!!
I got to it right after ff7 remake. I think 7r is better but XV is so good once you get into it.
I played Royal Edition on pc
So happy for those that didnt play ffxv vanilla, XV ll aways be a trash FF for me cause Vanilla :(.

Royal is a completely diferent experience.
 
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I feel like this shit is so overblown. Like someone saw the opening movie when they dropped it like four months out from release and went "hurrrr anime noises lame," and everyone else just parroted the idea. FFVIIR doesn't even approach the most excessive examples of "anime grunts," If anything, I think it's more the fault of the sound design, because those sounds, mixed down properly, would help sell a scene, not the opposite. The issue is that they're all front and center in the mix, at the same volume and clarity as actual voiced lines of dialogue.

People make audible sounds when they move and breathe and shit, but the level of projection I put forth getting up from a chair is less than it is when I'm having a conversation with someone.
No it’s not overblown. The game fucking sounds like a gay porno and it ruins every dialog scene. And it’s insulting to the viewer. It’s like they can’t let a single thought pass through a character’s head without them making some stupid sound to let the viewer know.

Shame on you for defending this. I think you may be suffering from excessive anime exposure.

“It’s the fault of the sound design” lol okay? Is this your attempt to defend “anime” or something?
 
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Meicyn

Gold Member
I feel like this shit is so overblown. Like someone saw the opening movie when they dropped it like four months out from release and went "hurrrr anime noises lame," and everyone else just parroted the idea. FFVIIR doesn't even approach the most excessive examples of "anime grunts," If anything, I think it's more the fault of the sound design, because those sounds, mixed down properly, would help sell a scene, not the opposite. The issue is that they're all front and center in the mix, at the same volume and clarity as actual voiced lines of dialogue.

People make audible sounds when they move and breathe and shit, but the level of projection I put forth getting up from a chair is less than it is when I'm having a conversation with someone.
Nah, it’s not overblown. I can form my own opinion and don’t have to repeat other people’s talking points since I played the game myself, thanks.

The opening train scene perfectly encapsulates the excessiveness. You could cut the gasps and grunting by half, and it would be better for it. The very first grunt is a gutteral cry from a guard off camera being taken out by Cloud, perfectly appropriate. The example I gave in my post where Barret nodded and then went “hhhnnnn”? Completely unnecessary.

This issue persists throughout the game.
 
Why is there a ridiculous squatting minigame ? Are they supposed to be hilarious? I've played 7 Yakuza games and never once seen something as dumb as this.
 

Rykan

Gold Member
before crisis, dirge of cerberus, crisis core, last order, advent children and intergrade.

oh look at that, a mobile game, two spin offs, an anime, a 2 hour movie and a DLC.

you dont need to watch or play any of the FF15 compilation material, but you can if you want and it will make the experience better. same goes for the ff7 remake project and it's compilation material.

even so, if you insist, there are summary videos that you can watch in 10 minutes that will explain many of those details if you dont want to dive into the compilation material but still want to understand the plot more. here is one for ff7 remake, for example... im sure there are plenty for FF15 as well...
Not even remotely the same situation.

Everything you've listed adds to Final Fantasy 7, but none of it is required or even enhances the original FF7 because it all came out long after the game came out. Final Fantasy 7 was not designed to be played after games and movies released much later.

This is different from XV, which was specifically designed to be played after watching the movie and animation that was released prior to the game.
 

Lethal01

Member
Shame on you for defending this. I think you may be suffering from excessive anime exposure.
“It’s the fault of the sound design” lol okay? Is this your attempt to defend “anime” or something?
In the first two minutes, you hear one single grunt. Just one. If Nomura were directing, there would have been at least ten, minimum.

Nomura really does get blamed for literally everything huh? that's hilarious.

I really don't think it's Nomura's fault specifically that the the English localization took every barely audible breath that you actually have to boost the audio by 5x to hear and added in loud anime grunts that are as loud as talking in addition to adding extra grunts for every other head movement.
 
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Lol imagine if any other form of entertainment did this. Imagine if in Breaking Bad, every time Walt had some idea pass through his head he made some weird grunting noise. It would be a laughing stock.

Anime gets a free pass for some reason. Weebs have the lowest standards of any fandom.
 
Lol imagine if any other form of entertainment did this. Imagine if in Breaking Bad, every time Walt had some idea pass through his head he made some weird grunting noise. It would be a laughing stock.

Anime gets a free pass for some reason. Weebs have the lowest standards of any fandom.
I can enjoy Japanese games that do this and other games that don’t. And then there’s people like you
 

Rykan

Gold Member
Lol imagine if any other form of entertainment did this. Imagine if in Breaking Bad, every time Walt had some idea pass through his head he made some weird grunting noise. It would be a laughing stock.

Anime gets a free pass for some reason. Weebs have the lowest standards of any fandom.
"Y NON AMERICAN CONTENT NOT MORE LIEK AMERICAN CONTENT!!11"
 

Lethal01

Member
Lol imagine if any other form of entertainment did this. Imagine if in Breaking Bad, every time Walt had some idea pass through his head he made some weird grunting noise. It would be a laughing stock.

Anime gets a free pass for some reason. Weebs have the lowest standards of any fandom.

We can agree that there is too much grunting, I'm saying it an issue in the English Dub and the original audio is totally in line with other media.
Maybe just slightly higher as something you would see in a Japanese drama rather than an English one.

Here's a question though, do you judge breaking bad by it's Japanese dub or Spanish Dub? Do you blame the director for every fault in the Spanish Dub.
 
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Meicyn

Gold Member
Nomura really does get blamed for literally everything huh? that's hilarious.

I really don't think it's Nomura's fault specifically that the the English localization took every barely audible breath that you actually have to boost the audio by 5x to hear and added in loud anime grunts that are as loud as talking in addition to adding extra grunts for every other head movement.
lmao

You think the issue is volume?

Excessive grunting and groaning is annoying whether it’s at 65 decibels or 95 decibels.
 

Lethal01

Member
lmao

You think the issue is volume?

Excessive grunting and groaning is annoying whether it’s at 65 decibels or 95 decibels.

It really depends, the English localization adds in a lot of extra loud grunting.
Sometimes there is a characters that literally just breaths totally naturally in the Japanese version that goes HRRNNG! in English.

So the English version has, More grunting, with weird "anime dub" delivery, boosted even higher than the talking. I'd say "the issue" is ALL of it.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
No it’s not overblown. The game fucking sounds like a gay porno and it ruins every dialog scene. And it’s insulting to the viewer. It’s like they can’t let a single thought pass through a character’s head without them making some stupid sound to let the viewer know.

Shame on you for defending this. I think you may be suffering from excessive anime exposure.

“It’s the fault of the sound design” lol okay? Is this your attempt to defend “anime” or something?

Shame on me-

You seem super invested in this.

Get fucked.
 

Meicyn

Gold Member
It really depends, the English localization adds in a lot of extra loud grunting.
Sometimes there is a characters that literally just breaths totally naturally in the Japanese version that goes HRRNNG! in English.

So the English version has, More grunting, with weird "anime dub" delivery, boosted even higher than the talking. I'd say "the issue" is ALL of it.
Nah, it’s stilted in Japanese too. I would concur that the English localization makes it louder, but it’s still unnatural in the original language.

It’s not like I dislike Japanese media or something, either. For example, I love the more serious stuff like Jinroh: The Wolf Brigade, and I can also enjoy a shonen series like Hajime no Ippo where dudes punch each other and make dick jokes.

An older example in the brand that further illustrates the ongoing weirdness is the Final Fantasy X laughing scene. It’s infamous for a reason, and it is bad in Japanese AND English. The problem isn’t the actors. No one could save that scene. If you want a more American example, see the Star Wars prequels with the Anakin monologue about coarse sand being the most egregious. Bad direction and poor dialogue will fall apart the moment the actors have to vocalize, no matter the talent.
 
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Rykan

Gold Member
An older example in the brand that further illustrates the ongoing weirdness is the Final Fantasy X laughing scene. It’s infamous for a reason,
It's baffling that people still bring this up. The laughing scene is intentionally awkward and forced. That's the whole point of the scene. The fact that the camera pans towards the other characters starring awkwardly and Yuna saying:"You probably shouldn't laugh anymore.." makes this blatantly obvious. The only reason it is "infamous" is because the scene is taken entirely out of context and the level of discourse regarding voice acting in games is so pitifully low that people still unironically bring this up as an example of bad voice acting.

Final Fantasy X has all sorts of voice acting related issue, almost all of it having to do with translation issues and the fact that scenes/animations aren't adjusted for a different language, but the laughing scene certainly isn't one of them.
 
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Lethal01

Member
Nah, it’s stilted in Japanese too. I would concur that the English localization makes it louder, but it’s still unnatural in the original language.

It's objectively far more common in the dub, That's just verifiable. I'd say in jp, its no more common that it is in Ippo.
And again the dub delivers what are literally just natural breaths that you don't even notice as actual stilted grunts. The japanese is just a totally average dub that's for the very least on par with XIV.


So again, not something I'd fault Nomura for.
 
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It's baffling that people still bring this up. The laughing scene is intentionally awkward and forced. That's the whole point of the scene. The fact that the camera pans towards the other characters starring awkwardly and Yuna saying:"You probably shouldn't laugh anymore.." makes this blatantly obvious. The only reason it is "infamous" is because the scene is taken entirely out of context and the level of discourse regarding voice acting in games is so pitifully low that people still unironically bring this up as an example of bad voice acting.

Final Fantasy X has all sorts of voice acting related issue, almost all of it having to do with translation issues and the fact that scenes/animations aren't adjusted for a different language, but the laughing scene certainly isn't one of them.
He wanted to be a cool kid and shit on FF like the rest of em, pay him no mind
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
He wanted to be a cool kid and shit on FF like the rest of em, pay him no mind

My favorite event in this thread is the revelation that I'm an anime apologist or whatever because I said "there's worse examples of anime grunting, and it's mixed too high," Like...yeah. I'm sucking the whole dev team off by saying that there's a clear issue with their sound design, which isn't just limited to the volume of grunts, but the widely reported completely drowned out dialogue depending on where the player is pointing the camera/how many NPCs are divulging their entire life stories at the same time.

I think I've watched maybe...seven complete anime in my entire life? I don't really watch tv/films in general, it's too passive an entertainment form for me, generally. Ironically, Breaking Bad is one of the series I have seen, since that's the golden standard upon which every form of media, regardless of age or region demographic, should take all of it's cues from.

Like what you like. Dislike what you dislike. I'll be sure to do the same. If that makes me supa kawaii no desu nippon weeb baka then so be it.
 
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tmlDan

Member
Blame the people who wouldn't stop complaining about it not being turn based. Obviously Square Enix was trying to appease both action RPG fans and turn based RPG fans. Same thing happened with FFXV, and it was a joke and combat sucked.
Good, then i will continue to complain....or do you like sitting there pressing x all day as "combat".

If you think turn-based is better you're objectively wrong, what an old and tired combat mechanic only used because it was easier to program click-on-list combat
 

Neff

Member
I really wonder how they plan to fit the rest of the game into only two more parts. They stretched about a 6 hour part of the original game into 30+ of superfluous padding, are they going to either rush/skip future content from the original? Or do they plan on turning a 40ish hour game into 200 hours?

It's more realistic to think of part 2's workload in terms of what is practical than simply looking at it mathematically. In the original game a lot of time was spent in the overworld fighting random monsters once you left Midgar. And the first part of FFVIIR was filled with a lot of new stuff to compensate for simply being part 1. I think part 2 will be longer, but I don't think they'll be adding as much new content, or stretching things out as they did in part 1. The iconic areas and scenes will be recreated/reinterpreted, and the optional overworld exploration stuff will probably be there too in some form, but it won't reflect the same relative time spent playing the original game.
 
It's baffling that people still bring this up. The laughing scene is intentionally awkward and forced. That's the whole point of the scene. The fact that the camera pans towards the other characters starring awkwardly and Yuna saying:"You probably shouldn't laugh anymore.." makes this blatantly obvious. The only reason it is "infamous" is because the scene is taken entirely out of context and the level of discourse regarding voice acting in games is so pitifully low that people still unironically bring this up as an example of bad voice acting.

Final Fantasy X has all sorts of voice acting related issue, almost all of it having to do with translation issues and the fact that scenes/animations aren't adjusted for a different language, but the laughing scene certainly isn't one of them.
It’s dumb corny writing AND bad voice acting AND bad direction.

“Dude intentionally makes a fool of himself in public to try and make his girlfriend laugh” would be a tricky scene to land even if you had a great script and an actor with good comedic timing + good direction.

That scene had none of those things. All it did was pull me out of the game and make me feel shame in front of my roommates. I guess if the intent of that scene was to embarrass gamers in front of their normie friends and SOs then mission accomplished.
 

Rykan

Gold Member
It’s dumb corny writing AND bad voice acting AND bad direction.

“Dude intentionally makes a fool of himself in public to try and make his girlfriend laugh”
Incredible, it's such a simple scene and you're STILL unable to grasp what the actual scene is about. This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say that discourse about video game voice acting is pathetic, because you have dudebros like this guy here describing grunts as "sounds like gay porn" and are unable to comprehend the intention behind even simplistic scenes.
 
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