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LTTP: Knights of the Old Republic 2 - this is a role playing game.

Markitron

Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
I always drop AP during the first couple of hours too lmao

Well, they're both still on my Steam's to-play list, so someday I'll finish both

I actually think Kotor 2 has a really strong opening, Peragus is really atmospheric and the ending is really tense. IMO it's weakest section is the 4-5 hours after the opening. The
Telos
section really drags until you get to
the enclave and Atris
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
It's not hard to see why KOTOR 1 is remembered more fondly. In mechanics and setting it was an original piece of video game and Star Wars universe content, while retaining much of the flavour and themes established in the movies, particularly the light hearted good-vs-evil hero's journey. For better or worse it's a safe adventure, but a very well rounded and well produced one, with complete game content and story arc.

KOTOR 2 was building off its predecessor, so it loses points for originality, and was obviously unfinished and particularly buggy. So even if it's more preferable to some (myself included), I can appreciate why fans more fondly remember where the series began, especially at its most well rounded, iconic, and presentable iteration.

But yeah, KOTOR 2...hell of a game. Really accentuates the strength of Obsidian's writing, particularly in constructing morally ambiguous characters that have strongly defined personalities and histories that exist beyond your player avatar, and are interwoven with your chosen arc with suitable and often confrontational conversations.

I mean, KOTOR 1 and KOTOR 2 really personify the massive differences in the way both BioWare and developers like Obsidian make their "role playing games", particularly their narratives. BioWare has always (and continues to be) more comfortable creating protagonists with a Jesus complex, and the supporting cast tends to supplement and revolve around your chosen path. Obsidian on the other hand tend to write characters and scenarios that challenge the path you've chosen, questioning your decisions and interpretation of the narrative, the supporting cast challenging your perspective.
 

Jyrii

Banned
This game is my new Witcher 1. Meaning it is an older game that I should play through, but I tend to lose interest. I did eventually finish Witcher 1 though.

Last time I think I got to the end of the first real area (the one after the mine), and this time I am right in the start of that area.

Someday.. Someday..
 

Necrovex

Member
I actually think Kotor 2 has a really strong opening, Peragus is really atmospheric and the ending is really tense. IMO it's weakest section is the 4-5 hours after the opening. The
Telos
section really drags until you get to
the enclave and Atris

I fully agree with you. I love Peragus, but I dislike the section after it. Murders the pacing for me until the point you mentioned.
 

Menthuss

Member
Everytime I see one of these threads I'm always tempted to post the link to that Eurogamer retrospective podcast they did when the Restoration Mod was released... for some reason I always forget.
They sat down with some of the KOTOR-2 developers from Obsidian and some of the Mod people.
It's well worth a listen.

http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/eurogamer-podcast-kotor2-post-mortem-special

Wow, never knew this existed. Thanks!

EDIT: Man, hearing their idea's for KoToR3 and realising that it'll never happen is making me sad :(
 

Markitron

Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
I fully agree with you. I love Peragus, but I dislike the section after it. Murders the pacing for me until the point you mentioned.

Yea it get's bogged down with tonnes of backstory and 2 or 3 boring environments. I think it was a great idea to go to Telos, as it had been set up as an important location in the first game, but I think it would have been better if the game went straight to the
enclave
after Peragus and left the rest of Telos until later.
 
KotOR2 is was god tier rpg at the time. And I'd still consider it pretty good, although I still need to play it with the mod... that said, I'm just gonna say I enjoy the 'unfinished' original KotOR2's ending more then the KotOR1 ending.

But then I'm not really that much of a star wars fan.
 
KOTOR 2 is a fantastic game and frankly, when I played it for the first time on XBOX I didn't even notice it was unfinished.

The only thing that annoys me is that it's impossible to play a "canon" play-through thanks to them gender-locking certain party members.
 
Even back when I played it on the Xbox when it first came out, I knew KotOR 2 was the better game. I was too young to really realize it then but it's a far more complex and nuanced take on the Star Wars universe. The best way I've heard the game described is that it's a deconstruction of Star Wars. The game was meant to show that the force and the galaxy at large wasn't black and white. Your mentor throughout the game (forget her name) is a perfect example of this. She always forces you to consider the moral implications of any action. It wasn't as simple as Light Side vs Dark Side. And you know what, fuck it, I think the ending is actually pretty good.

Man, I really need to play that again. Time to find that restoration mod.
 

Markitron

Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
It's on Steam Workshop.

So does it require a lot of effort to get the full thing running? Not really a PC gamer and have only played on the Xbox, I wanna play the modded version but it seemed to require a lot of effort. Also does it have controller support?
 
So does it require a lot of effort to get the full thing running? Not really a PC gamer and have only played on the Xbox, I wanna play the modded version but it seemed to require a lot of effort. Also does it have controller support?

Nope, you subscribe to the mod and Steam handles the rest. There is controller support as well, it's the easiest way to play.
 

Wulfram

Member
KotOR 2 is pretty bad for roleplaying, because you spend the game having little idea who the character you're roleplaying is. I guess that'd be fixed on a replay, but I didn't really feel much temptation to replay given the lack of interesting characters (except Kreia, and she's still weakened by the philosophical babble) or story.
 
KotOR 2 is pretty bad for roleplaying, because you spend the game having little idea who the character you're roleplaying is. I guess that'd be fixed on a replay, but I didn't really feel much temptation to replay given the lack of interesting characters (except Kreia, and she's still weakened by the philosophical babble) or story.

I'd argue the opposite is true as the game lets you decide who the character you're playing is.
 

Wulfram

Member
I'd argue the opposite is true as the game lets you decide who the character you're playing is.

But I can't decide who the character I'm playing is when I'm left in the dark about the crucial thing in the character's backstory which everyone goes on about but no one explains.

There's no blank slate, there's a full slate you can't see.
 

lumzi23

Member
Yeah, both games are worth playing and yeah, there's a mod that restores most of the content back to the sequel.

The big thing is that KOTOR 1 is a fun star wars game and KOTOR 2 is, IMO, the standard in which RPGs that advertise their story should be rated against.

I have played two with the content restored mod but when I played it again (for a few hours) years later Kreia sounded like an old bat rambling nonsense instead of the wise sage I remember her as from the first game (basically the same situation I found myself in rewatching the Battlestar Galactica (which was my favorite TV show perfectly now giving me doubts as to its quality).

I need to replay both games to see how they stack up (even though they are both of my favorite series).
 
But I can't decide who the character I'm playing is when I'm left in the dark about the crucial thing in the character's backstory which everyone goes on about but no one explains.

There's no blank slate, there's a full slate you can't see.

The game asks questions about this crucial thing in such a way that your responses change how it happened. You don't need to "know" how events went down because you are deciding how events went down.
 
I don't know which of the two games I prefer because comparing them feels impossible. Apples and oranges. But all I know as that both of them are some of my favourite games. Everybody should try to play through both of them.
 
The ending for this game was so incredibly shit that it really wiped a lot of the good I felt for it. It had some very interesting set ups and characters but man what a confusing mess it became at the end.
 

OBias

Member
I actually think Kotor 2 has a really strong opening, Peragus is really atmospheric and the ending is really tense. IMO it's weakest section is the 4-5 hours after the opening. The
Telos
section really drags until you get to
the enclave and Atris
I agree with you. Peragus basically felt like 2001: A Space Odyssey with
HK-50 as HAL 9000
, it was very atmospheric and engaged you with multiple looming threats breathing down your neck.
Telos
on the other hand was boring. At least it introduced
Bao-Dur
, one of my most favorite characters in the game.
 

Wulfram

Member
The game asks questions about this crucial thing in such a way that your responses change how it happened. You don't need to "know" how events went down because you are deciding how events went down.

Really? That's interesting, but (I'm pretty sure) it doesn't tell you that, so its not very useful. It still left me spending virtually the whole game trying to decide whether my character feels guilty about some incident that I know basically nothing about.
 

SpotAnime

Member
Even at its lowest points it's better than most games.

Goddammit OP, now I gotta replay this on the PC. Never did the lost content mode so this will be a new experience, aside from in glorious HD in Big Picture mode.

I did it again. I keep finding more reasons to replay this.

Kotor 1 and kotor 2 are both amazing games. Wish kotor 1 would get the patch kotor 2 got.

OMG. To play the two back to back in HD would be amazing. This so much.
 

Renekton

Member
Didn't like KOTOR series as much as NWN because you're pigeonholded into a Jedi.

Want to be a scoundrel? Bounty hunter? Tough luck you nerd herder.
 
I always wanted to play this, and picked it up when it went on sale recently. Thanks for the great write up, I will definitely bump this up on my backlog list.
 
Played KOTOR 1 so many times. I have fond memories playing it on the original xbox in 5th grade. I remember brushing off 2 after hearing about it being incomplete but I guess it's time for me to pick it up on steam :)
 
I think the #1 flaw in this game is pacing. Even after the infamous beginning, it's poor.

Every single combat section just goes on and on. You can't go five steps before being ambushed by a group of enemies identical to those you just fought. Took months for me to beat this game, because I couldn't take more than a couple hours of that at a time, and many days, I couldn't be bothered to play at all.

That said, I absolutely love the story and characters in this game. At its best, Star Wars has not been this smart since The Empire Strikes Back. (Which makes the "video gamey" combat levels more disapointing)
 

Necrovex

Member
I think the #1 flaw in this game is pacing. Even after the infamous beginning, it's poor.

Every single combat section just goes on and on. You can't go five steps before being ambushed by a group of enemies identical to those you just fought. Took months for me to beat this game, because I couldn't take more than a couple hours of that at a time, and many days, I couldn't be bothered to play at all.

That said, I absolutely love the story and characters in this game. At its best, Star Wars has not been this smart since The Empire Strikes Back. (Which makes the "video gamey" combat levels more disapointing)

Late game spoiler:

I actually love how one of the Jedi explains why you became stronger as you gained experience through combat. It was super meta
.
 

Guri

Member
I believe both games are awesome in their own regards. KOTOR 1 manages to be the best in terms of a classic Star Wars RPG, while KOTOR 2 challenges the idea of this universe by questioning every move and forcing you to choose between hard decisions.
 
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