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[dionysus]

I just finished Suikoden V. Thank you GAF for directing me to a great game I would never have discovered without you. I am not spoilering out the whole post, so just don't read any more if you don't want spoilers.





So whats to like about Suikoden V? The game is about heroic individuals, 108 of them, caught up in lots of political intrigue that threatens the country and the world. Numerous other RPGs use political intrigue to drive their story, but many of them fall short because the player character is not the one with the political power. (FFXII I look at you.) Oftentimes these "political rpgs" have non-playable characters controlling the armies, the resources, and all the reigns of power. So the player character and his party are just reacting to what the people in power are doing. Suikoden V, by giving the player control over the rebel armies, makes the player feel like he is a power in the game world equal to his enemies. This sense of control, however, could be called superficial as the story is very linear and few real choices are given to the player.

This brings me to the role of the 3 battle systems. I think these battle systems serve thematic purposes. We have the individual duel, which emphasizes the player character's individual importance in the story. We have the party turn based battle system, which emphasizes the Stars of Destinies importance in the story. And finally we have the army battle system, which makes the player feel like he is actually leading a massive rebel force. Thus the player feels important not only at the party level like most RPGs, but also in the individual and political levels.

Anyway, time for some bad;
1. Hero has no personality. This is a design decision that I complain about in all games that do this.
2. Graphics are bad even for PS2. Heck, anything beyond the walls of the dungeon appears as black space....
3. Unexplained story elements.

Spoiler

Why does Sialeeds betray me again? I have a few ideas but am not sure

4. Needs a love story. The whole game I was hoping for Hero to hook-up with Miakis.
5. Collecting 108 stars is effing annoying.
6. Game is looooonnnnnnnggggggg.

So what are the chances of Suikoden VI happening? Did V sell?

Should I go back and play any of the other ps2 Suikodens? Sorry, I really can't handle ps1 games anymore.

 

[satori]

I thought 5 was amazing as well. I really enjoy Suikoden 3, and hated 4.

If you like 5, check out 3. I think I saw a used copy for like 8 bucks at the local gamestop.

 

[GhaleonQ]

*is a huge fan of the Suikoden series, generally*

 

[RiZ III]

those seem like some bad bads

 

[Prime crotch]

The game's story was just lacking...well just something, a good climax perhaps I don't know it was just missing something that bothered me when I finished it. It's still a very good game and vastly superior to IV.
Oh and Lyon is too annoying.

 

[Essery]

Don't hold your breath on a suikoden VI, most of those that worked on last few Suikoden's are on other projects and been 2 years roughly since Suikoden V was done regrettably....

 

[Avalon]

1. Hero has no personality. This is a design decision that I complain about in all games that do this.

3. Unexplained story elements.

Spoiler

Why does Sialeeds betray me again? I have a few ideas but am not sure

They give you enough opportunities to instill your own personality. That's the whole point of an RPG, learn to appreciate it damn it.

It is explained. She basically

Spoiler

didn't believe he would be able to clean up the political mess and would probably be corrupted by the whole thing

. At least, that's what I got out of it.

 

[Like the hat?]

i loved it. i also loved suikoden 4 but thats another story.

sialeeds betrays you because she knows that if you just take the princess, nothing will change. the noblehood must fall for anything to really change

 

[ethelred]

Don't hold your breath on a suikoden VI, most of those that worked on last few Suikoden's are on other projects...

Like who? Aside from Junko Kawano, I haven't heard of a widescale dismantling of the Suikoden team. Last we heard, they were going to make Suikoden VI and it was in pre-production.

 

[Google]

I've always been interested in Suikoden, but I've never bothered to pick up any of the games.

Would V be a good place to start, or should I start with III/IV?

 

[Ferrio]

I really liked Suikoden 3, mainly because I thought the cast was pretty kick ass.

Geddoe's Group is easily one of my favorite group of heroes ever.


So far only suikoden I haven't beaten is 2, which is odd considering everyone claims it as the best one.

 

[WYWY]

4. Needs a love story.

Actually I consider not having one a BIG PLUS. .. I find most love plots in games unbearably adolescent. Nowadays I count the presence of one a minus point in my purchase decisions.
...
...
....

OT: Ironically the more decent love stories come from the visual novel/love-sims, but they are marred by the naughty scenes.

 

[Miburou]

Considering Suikoden II is 2D, it probably looks less dated now than part III. It's also shorter, and has a speedier battle system, making for a painless experience.

Suikoden V, while unspectacular when looking at its individual parts, still managed to keep me occupied for 125 hours (mainly collecting all 108 members).

II is my favorite, followed by III. I and V are tied for 3rd. IV wasn't a bad RPG, but for a Suikoden game it wasn't as good.

 

[bryehn]

I hit about 45 hours before I realized that I didn't really like the game. Too slow for me, the constant load screens sucked, etc.

Stepping away to play Dragon Quest VIII certainly didn't help matters. When I came back, I just couldn't get back into it.

I can agree that the hero had zero personality, and that collecting the stars was a royal bore. Oh, and the "RTS" levels were terrible.

I did like the auto battle feature though, something every turn-based RPG should have, and the duels were alright.

It was my first Suikoden game besides Tactics. I'll probably check out VI if it ever surfaces though, because I'm sure the pacing/load times are what they'll work on.

 

[crowphoenix]

Complaigning about a boring Suikoden hero is kinda like complaigning about white bread being white. The nameable heros in most of the Suikoden games don't speak, save the the guy in 3.

That being said, I loved five. It is my second favorite after two, and I loved the fact that your character as the leader could actually second guess and decide against your tactician.

 

[Manmademan]

4. Needs a love story. The whole game I was hoping for Hero to hook-up with Miakis.

it has several, just not the kind you were looking for. (Miakis?? That makes no sense. were you even paying attention?)

Hero + his bodyguard is an OBVIOUS one. you need the best ending to see it, of course- but there's definitely something between the two.

Hero + Lym is a huge motivator throughout most of the game, though it's obviously more of a sisterly love.

Arshtat + Ferid

Spoiler

though this one doesn't really have a happy ending. Her love for Him and vice versa is pretty much the only thing keeping the madness of the sun rune in check. When she loses control and kills him, her grief threatens to obliterate the entire country.

Lucretia + Leilei

Spoiler

there seems to be a lesbian relationship between the two hinted at, especially in the end where the two abandon cius and run off together somewhere, never to be seen again.

There's a lot of other smaller relationships that come into play with side characters, but it's definitely not lacking for them.

 

[Ledsen]

They give you enough opportunities to instill your own personality. That's the whole point of an RPG, learn to appreciate it damn it.

It is explained. She basically

Spoiler

didn't believe he would be able to clean up the political mess and would probably be corrupted by the whole thing

. At least, that's what I got out of it.

The point of japanese rpgs isn't playing a role (like in some western rpgs), it's about experiencing a story. Mute heroes in j-rpgs are really pointless, unless the game offers huge conversation trees and choices with far-reaching consequences (as opposed to "do you want to eat the loaf of bread YES/NO"). To this day I've never seen a j-rpg do this, so until that day comes I say NO to silence!

 

[Alcander]

I liked V a lot as well, but really dont understand why they did away with the, what did they call it... tri-view? or whatever, the way they told the story in III was great, using the three different characters to see what was happening from different perspectives.

 

[dionysus]

I understand that having zero personality is a design decision. The developers want us to put our own personalities and thoughts into that character, instead of having it dictated to the gamer.

As I said, I find this a fault in all the games that have this, not just Suikoden. To me it just comes off as having bland main character where everyone is talking above him instead of him participating in events.

 

[Manmademan]

The point of japanese rpgs isn't playing a role (like in some western rpgs), it's about experiencing a story. Mute heroes in j-rpgs are really pointless.

In before the chrono trigger fans fillet you.

It occurs to me though that the hero isn't "mute" though- he does speak (though he's not voice acted like the rest of the cast) though you select the options when he does. A good example is when

Spoiler

the castle is under seige by the godwins, and you have the choice to either leave Lym to her fate, or defy your guards and get your ass knocked out and carried away

edit: whoops fixed my spoilers

 

[Druz]

I POST SPOILERS DURR DURR DURR

ass

 

[dionysus]

it has several, just not the kind you were looking for. (Miakis?? That makes no sense. were you even paying attention?)

Hero + his bodyguard is an OBVIOUS one. you need the best ending to see it, of course-

There's a lot of other smaller relationships that come into play with side characters, but it's definitely not lacking for them.

No, Hero + Lyon is sibling love. They were raised together. I never got the feeling they were romantically inclined to each other.

I thought Miakis because Ferid in the beginning of the game hints at Hero having a crush on a certain Queen's Knight. Lyon is an apprentice, so I assumed he meant Miakis.

 

[Manmademan]

No, Hero + Lyon is sibling love. They were raised together. I never got the feeling they were romantically inclined to each other.

I thought Miakis because Ferid in the beginning of the game hints at Hero having a crush on a certain Queen's Knight. Lyon is an apprentice, so I assumed he meant Miakis.

you didn't specify romantic love. you just said "love." Not every relationship in an RPG needs to be romantic. I thought that for such a young character it was more realistic that his primary motivator was love for his family, rather than love for a piece of tail.

There's really no indicator anywhere between miakis and the hero that even hints at romantic interest. Lyon and the Hero have a much, much closer relationship. Miakis' concern is almost 100% Lym throughout the entire game.

 

[Error]

this is the best Suikoden imo, from a gameplay standpoint the game is amazing and while story is of course subjective I still enjoyed it a lot mainly because the characters are awesome (the dialogue in the game really elevates the characters)

some of your complains are Suikoden trademarks ;p

in Suikoden there is never a focus on love angles, the hero always recruits a star that has some sort of crush with him but that's it (Suiko1 hero with Kasumi, Suiko2 Hero with Eilie, Suiko5 hero with Chisato etc.. etc..). getting all the 108 has always been a pain that's nothing new to the series, I think in Suikoden 3 it was easy tho but the rest are pretty tough without a guide.

you need to read the books and the issues Taylor distributes in your HQ they have valuable info on past events, characters, falena history etc.. etc..

 

[Ledsen]

In before the chrono trigger fans fillet you

I love CT as much as the next guy, but would it REALLY have been a worse game if Crono could speak? If so, why? Again, in CT you can't make any important choices or change the story through the main char (the different ending are nice but that's not really the same thing), so I don't think the game would've suffered from a talking hero. Of course if he'd been an asshole or something that'd be bad, but somehow I think Square could've pulled that one off without turning him into, say, Tidus :lol

 

[Manmademan]

this is the best Suikoden imo, from a gameplay standpoint the game is amazing and while story is of course subjective I still enjoyed it a lot mainly because the characters are awesome (the dialogue in the game really elevates the characters)

some of your complains are Suikoden trademarks ;p

in Suikoden there is never a focus on love angles, the hero always recruits a star that has some sort of crush with him but that's it (Suiko1 hero with Kasumi, Suiko2 Hero with Eilie, Suiko5 hero with Chisato etc.. etc..). getting all the 108 has always been a pain that's nothing new to the series, I think in Suikoden 3 it was easy tho but the rest are pretty tough without a guide.

you need to read the books and the issues Taylor distributes in your HQ they have valuable info on past events, characters, falena history etc.. etc..

Chisato?? What? :lol I thought she was just shy around everyone. I didn't really get the "crush" vibe there.

I will admit I have a soft spot for her though. That one short section of the game where she's following you (as opposed to lyon) and her puppets wiggle as she runs is SO DAMN CUTE I JUST WANT TO HUG HER

 

[Prime crotch]

(Suiko1 hero with Kasumi, Suiko2 Hero with Eilie, Suiko5 hero with Chisato etc.. etc..)

I wish Konami made a sequel set after Suiko I that has some closure on Tir x Kasumi pairing. I mean from II and Gaiden it's obvious she still likes him but the whole

Spoiler

immortality thing might be a bummer

 

[Error]

Chisato?? What? :lol I thought she was just shy around everyone. I didn't really get the "crush" vibe there.

I will admit I have a soft spot for her though. That one short section of the game where she's following you (as opposed to lyon) and her puppets wiggle as she runs is SO DAMN CUTE I JUST WANT TO HUG HER

if you send oboro to investigate her, he'll say she has a crush on the prince ;p

btw if you want something funny, send Oboro to investigate Zerase and then read the comment box

 

[itsinmyveins]

6. Game is looooonnnnnnnggggggg.

Yeah, that was my biggest complaint too.

 

[Manmademan]

if you send oboro to investigate her, he'll say she has a crush on the prince ;p

btw if you want something funny, send Oboro to investigate Zerase and then read the comment box

To be honest, I never finished all the investigations. waaay too time consuming. They're entertaining, but after a while I had nothing left in the game to do and a boatload of investigations still left over.

maybe on my next playthrough in a couple years.

edit: I just remembered Gamefaqs has an entire file of investigations spelled out for you. here's chisato's...I don't see any mention of a crush.

CHISATO

#1: Chisato´s a young lady who used to do puppet shows on Nirva Island.
She´s amazing with voices -- she can produce any voice
she wants at any time.

#2: I thought her voices might be magical or something,
but they aren´t. No magic, no gimmicks. Just talent and practise.
It´s incredible what people are capable of.

#3: Chisato doesn´t know it, but she´s a legend in the world
of theater: "The Woman of Thousand Voices." Most people think
she´s a myth. If they knew better, I bet every theater
group in the world would be clamoring for her.

 

[Error]

I just investigate the characters that interest me.

 

[RSLAEV]

I'm suffering through this game now because I promise myself I'd beat it. I'll say this much, it's a lot more tolerable with the voices *off*.

I got 20-25 hours into it the first time and my biggest problem was that I really *really* couldn't feel for any empathy for any of these aristocratic douchebags. I suppose if I was raised in a country with a more rigid class based system it may speak to me, but I wasn't so all the royal posturing and *omg The prince* moments were just frustrating.

That and the 12 year old ninja bodyguard. Keep your tween ninjas out of my games and back in Naruto where they belong

 

[RiZ III]

s4 and 5 both looked interesting, but 3 was so terrible.. i couldnt bring myself to get the next ones

 

[Ferrio]

That and the 12 year old ninja bodyguard. Keep your tween ninjas out of my games and back in Naruto where they belong

Did you get far enough that they explain why she's a ninja?

 

[RSLAEV]

Did you get far enough that they explain why she's a ninja?

They couldn't possibly offer up any explanation that would make her character any less ridiculous to me.

 

[Magicpaint]

3. Unexplained story elements.

Spoiler

Why does Sialeeds betray me again? I have a few ideas but am not sure

Spoiler

What I got out of that was that, if Lymsleia had gone back with the Prince after that war, the corruption of the Nobles would still be present and wouldn't solve anything. So her plan was to get rid of the corrupt nobles (Barows and Godwin factions) and give both the Prince and Lymsleia a truly fresh start.

 

[dionysus]

They couldn't possibly offer up any explanation that would make her character any less ridiculous to me.

Hmm, sounds like you have a problem with JRPGs in general, as they all have completely unrealistic characters. 12 year olds summoning asteroids, dead people's dreams becoming real people, 12 year olds destroying 5 story tall mechanical warriors, shooting yourself in the head to summon your persona but not dying, I could go on and on.

 

[Manmademan]

They couldn't possibly offer up any explanation that would make her character any less ridiculous to me.

I don't really see it as being all THAT ridiculous. Lyon was

Spoiler

trained as a child assassin by nether gate from a very young age, as were Sagiri, Shigure, and Dolph

but she's not portrayed as ridiculously superhuman or anything.

Characters that have been training for longer periods of time are WAY stronger- compare her skills to someone like Zegai, Georg Prime, Belcoot, or Richard- hell, the game goes out of the way to state that none of the Queen's knights could lay a finger on Georg without the use of some pretty serious runes, and Lyon isnt a full fledged queen's knight yet- her skills and experience only put her at the rank of "bodyguard."

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

Should I go back and play any of the other ps2 Suikodens? Sorry, I really can't handle ps1 games anymore.

Yes. III is very hit or miss so there's a chance you'll like it, and though IV generally isn't liked much at all, it's likely still a worthwhile 20-30 hours (meaning it's short for a RPG) if you can find it for cheap.

Go through and read this topic for lots of Suikoden stuff.

 

[Error]

manmademan: I forgot, it's in the comment box. not the investigations.

=======
Chisato
=======

="Norma and Her Leopard"=

I had no idea I'd run into them here!
What a pleasant surprise!

------------------

="No Title"=

I love you, Prince! Let's get married!

------------------

="Looking for Something"=

Um, excuse me. I was wondering if maybe
Your Highness got a love letter of
some sort in this box recently?

It was part of the script for an
unfinished puppet show, and it may have
wound up in the box...

On second thought, never mind. Please
don't tell me where it ended up. I'd
be so embarrassed...

 

[Masta_Killah]

Just started the game and its kind of a love/hate relationship atm(the last Suikoden game I played was part 2). I really like the political story, but HOLY SHIT does this game take a while to get going. I think I've played about 10 or so hours with the game and I probably spent a good 1/2 hour fighting. And speaking of fighting, its been pretty damn easy so far. Does it get harder, or does it stay in line with BD, difficulty wise? I do like how the story is unfolding though so that's my mine motivation for continuing.

I'll probably dig into this game once I finish BD. Anyone recommend part 3? How about 4? I hear it sucks, but as long as the story is good, I can forgive its other fallacies.

 

[Ferrio]

Just started the game and its kind of a love/hate relationship atm(the last Suikoden game I played was part 2). I really like the political story, but HOLY SHIT does this game take a while to get going. I think I've played about 10 or so hours with the game and I probably spent a good 1/2 hour fighting. And speaking of fighting, its been pretty damn easy so far. Does it get harder, or does it stay in line with BD, difficulty wise? I do like how the story is unfolding though so that's my mine motivation for continuing.

I'll probably dig into this game once I finish BD. Anyone recommend part 3? How about 4? I hear it sucks, but as long as the story is good, I can forgive its other fallacies.

Alot of people like 3 (my favorite of the post psx titles), I think most haters are the 2 lovers that come out to bash it because it's different.

4 is pretty much universally hated, and I'm with that crowd.

 

[dionysus]

I found the combat easy overall, even when they made me use 3 parties with all different people and my characters were underleveled. I don't think I ever had a complete party wipe.

 

[Masta_Killah]

Alot of people like 3 (my favorite of the post psx titles), I think most haters are the 2 lovers that come out to bash it because it's different.

4 is pretty much universally hated, and I'm with that crowd.

Why is 4 so bad, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Ferrio]

Why is 4 so bad, if you don't mind me asking?

Well to me the allure of Suikoden is the characters. And somehow even with 108 characters, there was like only one cool character The hero was especially crappy, jesus christ. Also the story wasn't that great, there was only one part that was interesting and they didn't go into it (the character I was speaking of).

Oh and the last boss.... ya...

Of course all my opinion of a game I dont' remember much of.


Opposed to 3, to which had lots of characters I liked. The whole Geddoe party was ace, Chris rocked and there were quite a few interesting side characters.

 

[Masta_Killah]

Well to me the allure of Suikoden is the characters. And somehow even with 108 characters, there was like only one cool character The hero was especially crappy, jesus christ. Also the story wasn't that great, there was only one part that was interesting and they didn't go into it (the character I was speaking of).

Oh and the last boss.... ya...

Of course all my opinion of a game I dont' remember much of.


Opposed to 3, to which had lots of characters I liked. The whole Geddoe party was ace, Chris rocked and there were quite a few interesting side characters.

Ah ok. Guess I'll hold off on 4 till its around $10 and get me part 3.

 

[Ferrio]

Ah ok. Guess I'll hold off on 4 till its around $10 and get me part 3.

One good thing about part four.... it ties to part one abit. Which is sad when one of it's few good features is another game.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

Well to me the allure of Suikoden is the characters. And somehow even with 108 characters, there was like only one cool character The hero was especially crappy, jesus christ.

He was hardly even a character. For the most part he felt like an inanimate vehicle just used to carry us through the story around him. By far the worst silent hero of recent memory; a stark contrast to Suikoden II or V.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I would really like a good strategy RPG like Ogre Battle where you start out as a loner, become the leader of a small team, and then you could actually decide what you next actions will be such as attacking an enemy fort or camp or protecting certain people that come to you, later on with a bigger army you could launch specific attacks on bigger targets etc. Sometimes you have to defend certain assets/groups or ask them to retreat if you can't handle it, etc. All the while keeping a strong focus on story. Basically a mix of FFT and Ogre Battle with less linearity.

 

[Clevinger]

He was hardly even a character. For the most part he felt like an inanimate vehicle just used to carry us through the story around him. By far the worst silent hero of recent memory; a stark contrast to Suikoden II or V.

What exactly makes a silent hero good? All of the ones I've seen in RPGs seem equally bland and uninteresting, and likewise an inanimate vehicle for the story, except visually.