• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Malenia or Sigrun

reezoo

Member
So for last 6+ months or so all I did was defeat Sigrun on GMGOW and defeat Malenia without rivers of blood and summon. Before you judge, I am approaching 45 now and only getting time over weekend if any to play games. I am interested to know what gaming community thinks about these two bosses in terms of game design, fairness and difficulty. Please share your thoughts, mines are below

Sigrun
- Very fair fight except may be for the stomp attack
- You get good exposure to all the moves to be able to practice
- Practicing on other Valkyries was a genius design

Malenia
- Overwhelming at first, looks unfair, but it is possible to learn her move patterns
- Sense of achievement way more then Sigrun
- Getting exposure to some of the moves is rare due to phase approach, one specific example the clone attack
 
Last edited:

TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
pCU2kW0.png


But seriously, I prefer Malenia. Mechanicaly they are both well designed but the rotten bitch sure felt more epic and fun to me
 

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Sigrun is simply an amalgamation of all the Valkyries you have fought in the original game. She thus feels less unique and epic because her moveset, timing, and overall behavior are very similar to the other Valkyries. She's just a stronger version of them with all of their abilities. Her design is also just like theirs but more regal to signify her higher status.

Malenia, on the other hand, is one of the most memorable bosses in terms of character design and lore. No other boss plays anything like her and she is a brand new challenge, not merely a suped up version of another enemy.

With that said, I don't find Malenia to be a particularly good boss mechanically. It's clear as day that Miyazaki and From's goal there was only to cheat players who were shouting from the rooftops that From's games difficulty is overrated. What did they do? The designed a mechanically unfair bosses with several questionable decisions.

- My main complaint about Malenia is that she punishes shield users. If you've gone through the game with a shield and face her, you'll have a much harder time than someone who is accustomed to dodging. That she heals health on shield hits makes absolutely no sense, but Miyazaki had to fuck over shield users somehow, otherwise, they could just turtle behind their high Guard Boost shields and slowly whittle her health away by poking her. Punishing someone this late in the game for using a perfectly viable build is nonsensical. That'd be like making a boss heal every time you dodge. Utterly stupid.

- Waterfowl Dance is a garbage move. I had to look up online to learn how to dodge it and it's the most counter-intuitive shit ever. Run away until the first flurry, then roll twice towards her to avoid the second flurry, roll away to avoid the third, then stand still so she can fly over you and miss you with the fourth. Seriously, what the fuck is this shit and how are we supposed to figure it out on our own? I wouldn't mind if the move was lightning-fast and required precise timing, but this isn't the case. It's just unintuitive with no clear indication on what to do when she starts it. You just gotta roll around and pray that you have enough health to survive the onslaught. If she starts spamming it, GG. A lot of runs aren't decided by the player's skills but simply where they were when she decided to whip out Waterfowl Dance 2-3x in a row. Thankfully, I got the timing and directions down now and take minimal damage. I can also destroy her consistently and quite quickly with Giant Hunt on the Great Sword.

tl;dr, Malenia is a cool boss visually and in terms of lore. The fight can be quite fun but From really got their heads far up their asses when it comes to their reputation. Their games are known to be "hard but fair", but this definitely isn't the case for Malenia.

Nowadays, I love fighting Malenia because I know the trick behind that one bullshit move and don't bring summons to give her easy health steal. I also know how to crush her poise and abuse crits to stunlock her. Doesn't mean the fight is well designed though.
 
Last edited:
I never got anywhere with any of the Valkyries, let alone Sigrun. Pretty sure I did the rest of the GoW 2016 content otherwise.

That on Normal.
 

Fbh

Member
As a massive souls and Elden Ring fan....I don't really like Malenia.
And it's mostly because of Waterfowl Dance. It's one of the most annoying and cheapest moves in all the souls games. I've beaten every boss in every souls game on my own but that was the first move that made me go look up strategy guides online because I could find no logical way to avoid it on my own. Even then I struggled to avoid it half of the time and, as someone above mentioned, it often felt like my chances to beat her came down to the RNG of her spamming the move or not.
And yes I know there are obviously people beating her blindfolded and what not, I'm not arguing the move can't be dodged consistently, I just think it's so unintuitive it's not really a fun process, unlike most good souls bosses.

Sigrun was fine, not that hard and pretty fair. It's just mostly unremarkable because it's not very unique.
 
Last edited:

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
tl;dr, Malenia is a cool boss visually and in terms of lore. The fight can be quite fun but From really got their heads far up their asses when it comes to their reputation. Their games are known to be "hard but fair", but this definitely isn't the case for Malenia.

I think this was true for most Fromsoft games until Elden Ring.

So many bosses in Elden Ring simply do not work for certain builds.

I get that it was a challenge to balance everything but a lot is just straight up broken

It’s why I don’t feel guilty when trying to cheese my way out. Many of the bosses are cheap and cheese the player depending on their build
 

Caio

Member
Malenia made me suffer a week ago, NG+8; curiosity : does she get "more angry" if you defeat Millicent at the end of the Quest ? The previous Run, NG+7, I helped Millicent, and later on I killed Malenia, on 1st attempt.
There's definitely no connection, but Malenia was really pissed and furious in my last challenge, which made me think about...
 
I didn't think Malenia was that bad. She's one of the harder bosses in the game for sure, but there were bosses in other From Software games I had way more trouble with.
 

Three

Member
So for last 6+ months or so all I did was defeat Sigrun on GMGOW and defeat Malenia without rivers of blood and summon.
Sigrun on GMGOW was something else. If that annoying stomp attack hit the fight was pretty much over for me and I had to restart. I think in the end I was able to complete it on that difficulty purely from luck that she didn't spam that move at all.
 

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Sigrun on GMGOW was something else. If that annoying stomp attack hit the fight was pretty much over for me and I had to restart. I think in the end I was able to complete it on that difficulty purely from luck that she didn't spam that move at all.
That's when the over-the-shoulder camera in the game showed its limitations in my opinion. The Valkyries have that swooping attack you have to dodge and when they fly past you, they're on the other side of the arena. You can double tap to do a 180 but sometimes the angle isn't perfect and you end up having to counter them from a bad perspective and if they pull something like the stomp, it can spell the end for you, especially on GMGOW where it's like 75% of your health in one attack unless you got decked out gear.
 

GymWolf

Member
Malenia is more difficult but sigrun has less margin of error if that make sense.

Like malenia attacks are harder to avoid but you have way more healing options than gow on max difficulty so you can't really made mistakes in gow.

Both great design wise.
 
Last edited:

Fake

Member
Remove the stupid drain life from Malenia and she will be the easiest boss in the entire Souls franchise.

Is funny what a life steal can do to a boss. Most of the Bloodborne bosses are miles more strong than Malenia.
 
Last edited:

Three

Member
it can spell the end for you, especially on GMGOW where it's like 75% of your health in one attack unless you got decked out gear.
Because of the massive damage she does on GMGOW I figured I'd just use decked out Zues Armor so that I can reduce the length of the battle and increase my odds because her health drains so slowly without it but of course that armour having Glass Ballista means you take even more damage in return. The margin for error was pretty much zero except the one Resurrection Stone use you get.
 
Last edited:

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Never played Melania, but sigrun is the hardest boss ive faced in any game. Took me over 5 hours to beat.

Part of it is me not realizing that the first 8 valkryies were training for this bitch. So i beat them by quickly spamming runic attacks. Sigrun has far more health and doesnt easily stagger so i basically learned the fight on the spot.
 
I'd say Malenia is a harder fight because you have no previous way to "prepare" for her fight compared to Sigrun, since the latter has an amalgamation of the previous Valkyries bosses as her moveset minus a few tweaks.

Malenia has some bullshit moves that you can only get used to if you reach certain "phases" of her fight, which basically turns it into an exercise of trial and error and learning as you fight her. Meanwhile, Sigrun is more of a skill check to see if you got ready to fight the complete version of the Valkyrie boss as you defeated the lesser Valkyries along the way. I'd say Sigrun is a lot less forgiving than Malenia because if you fail some timings and reads in her attacks on the highest difficulty it is basically a wrap if you have no revives or rage mode for Kratos.

All in all, both bosses are great but Sigrun was way more frustrating than Malenia in my case because you can't easily stagger her to skip some bullshit attacks or parry her effectively like you can with Malenia with some strats and AI abuse. Plus, you generally have a lot spammable healing flasks in Elden Ring by the time you reach Malenia. That's why I give this one to Sigrun.
 

Bartski

Gold Member
Sigrun beat my ass harder but that was in 2018.

The only difficult thing about Malenia is waterfowl dance which is an instakill move unless you wear light and train the living shit out of dodging through it, I never had the patience and it's the only boss I never beat without a spirit ash.
 

reezoo

Member
Sigrun beat my ass harder but that was in 2018.

The only difficult thing about Malenia is waterfowl dance which is an instakill move unless you wear light and train the living shit out of dodging through it, I never had the patience and it's the only boss I never beat without a spirit ash.
I was able to shield block waterfall without taking any damage or stagger, sure it gives her some health but thats still more manageable comapred to crazy gymnastics you have to do to dodge it.
 
Last edited:

Loomy

Thinks Microaggressions are Real
Sigrun was an interesting design. Before you even get to fight her, the game forces you - without telling you - to practice fighting her. By the time you get there, you're mostly familiar with the fight mechanics. You just have to adjust for the new timing and damage. Felt like an open book test.
 

FeralEcho

Member
Honestly I had more trouble with Mohg than Malenia,They were the hardest bosses in the game for sure but once you see how weak Malenia is to bleeding she is not as hard as the first impression she gives you.

All that is left is figuring out her waterfowl dance.

Malenia is S tier type boss in terms of everything,design,fun,challenge,lore.

Sigrun is an amalgamation of abilities from every other Valkirye in the game which you already fought like 8 times by then.It was a slog and I just beat her to be done with it and get the plat. I also like her Valkirye design the least in the entire game.They shat the bed with that.
 

Strategize

Member
It's literally just waterfowl dance that makes Malenia hard, if not for that move the number of attempts drop by about 75%.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom