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[Kresnik258]

Not a bad result for Ys. I do agree with the sentiment that Falcom may have been expecting a bit more by inserting even more Kiseki elements and improving the graphics, but equally I'm sure they can't be too disappointed with a solid FW hold.

They just need to stop pushing Ys into being something it's not. Let Tokyo Xanadu be their Kiseki action RPG if they need it.

Anyway, as I said in last week's thread, poor result for Black Rose Valkyrie. Neptunia did alright on PS4, and the Fairy Fencer F port did pretty well, but Omega Quintet and Black Rose Valkyrie have both bombed in my opinion. They're selling more copies doing Nep spinoffs of Vita than most of these games. Shame, because at least they're trying something different with these games.

And lol, Yo-Kai Watch. Guess they already saw this coming if the first game on phones is any indication.

Don't know what to make of those Stranger of Sword City sales. It's only a little bit less than the original game did on Vita so... decent I guess?

 

[Vena]

So should we discuss L5s unsurprising growing shift towards mobile? Aside from notGundam (no platform aside from NX is super weird to me here) and the now long missing NNK2, everything is at most 3DS (which I suspect if 2017 means also NX but with a distinct lack in anything else like Vita or PS4) but with YW shifting heavily into mobile. They've seemingly effectively written off home consoles in their entirety going forward in both Japan and the west. Inazuma was also platformless if I recall. I suspect everything without platform is NXish, though, which seems like we may get further confirmation on at TGS if the Sept reveal for the NX is genuine and predates it.

This shouldn't come as a surprise given recent comments about kids moving to mobile. This is another major player in the industry effectively leaving the console development space in the coming future. They may leave the entire dedicated space barring some unexpected successes from the NX. That said NX will be their last hurrah from the looks of it.

It also means even in the best of scenarios Nintendo will have a hard fight to get kids on the NX (and as such conyinurd strong L5 support but Pokemon and other IP will help here). I am optimistic on the product for the market and in general but the fight will be hard and the hardware will definitely fall further from the 3DS highs barring some miracle.

 

[Alrus]

I think it's a bit pointless to speculate about game platforms for Megaton robot thing and the new IE because it's pretty obvious they're not even close to being done and we will not see anything game wise for a long time. My guess would be mobile + whatever handheld is popular when it comes out (if there's still a popular handheld around)

I mean they announced Snack World last year and this year they barely showed anything new about it. The megaton game has one screenshot and IE didn't even show gameplay, just that it'll have some ugly Fitbit sold alongside it.

 

[Vena]

I think it's a bit pointless to speculate about game platforms for Megaton robot thing and the new IE because it's pretty obvious they're not even close to being done and we will not see anything game wise for a long time. My guess would be mobile + whatever handheld is popular when it comes out (if there's still a popular handheld around)

I mean they announced Snack World last year and this year they barely showed anything new about it. The megaton game has one screenshot and IE didn't even show gameplay, just that it'll have some ugly Fitbit sold alongside it.

Well yes but even with Snack World they announced the platforms. This lack of any platform is weird to me. I fully expect mobile + something.

 

[madstarr12]

Yokai Flop, Flopkai Watch, Bombkai Watch. Ehh, it'll probably outsell something like Splatoon if word of mouth is good enough to keep it in the spotlight for a while.

 

[Bebpo]

Spending 3 (or was it 4?) years developing Ys to only get those kind of sales and then maybe another 20-30k on ps4 seems like a bad business idea.

Ys really should be a lower budget 12-18 month dev period game based on the sales the series supports.

 

[Ryng_tolu]

Yokai Flop, Flopkai Watch, Bombkai Watch. Ehh, it'll probably outsell something like Splatoon if word of mouth is good enough to keep it in the spotlight for a while.

Nah, Splatoon will most likely sell about 2 million when all is said and done.

Yokai Watch 3 is tracking well under Yokai Watch Buster which sold 2.3 million, so is very unlucky for YW3 sell 2 million at this point.

Not to mention there are good chance of a NX port, if that's happen Splatoon will outsell it by a huge margin.

 

[Nirolak]

To recap Level 5 Vision:

• Otome Heroes for iOS/Android opened the show. It's a tweened graphics wobbly RPG where you collect attractive dudes. Level-5 bills it as a "full-fledged RPG" though it's pretty standard looking for the type of things you see in Japan lately. HAND is developing it. It's assuredly f2p.
• Lady Layton: The Conspiracy of King Millionaire Ariadne for 3DS/iOS/Android quickly followed as the second debut. This game is also developed by HAND, and is releasing in Spring 2017. It stars Professor Layton's daughter Catriel, who has became a detective when her father disappeared in an effort to search for him, but is currently solving local cases around town. The game mostly looks like a Layton title, though somewhat smartphone-ized. I'm not clear on the business model, though I think there was something about downloading new puzzles each day.
• Yo-Kai Watch: Daijiten for iOS/Android was also announced, which is essentially Quiz RPG but more advanced and with Yo-Kai integrated. Quiz RPG got 30+ million downloads in Japan so this has the potential to be quite popular. This comes out in November 2016.
• Yo-Kai Watch: Geraporhythm was announced for iOS/Android, and looks like an Elite Beat Agents-esque rhythm game. Idolmaster and Love Live make huge money on mobile, though obviously this isn't selling waifus. this comes out in March 2017.
• Fantasy Life 2 was shown. It looks quite competent, and is going into closed beta on July 29th (two days from now) with a full release shortly after. Will be interested to see how this one does since it's a bit less straightforwardly obvious of a mobile game idea. That said, these slightly more advanced games have been making big strides lately, so it could be very apt timing.
• Yo-Kai Watch 1 is being ported to iOS/Android with new features, online multiplayer, and a new interface. More details are coming soon, including pricing details, so this one might not actually be f2p.
• Snack World was shown again, and is releasing in April 2017 on iOS/Android, and getting a 3DS release afterwards in July 2017. I'm still not exactly clear on how this game works despite the demo, though it seems to be a game where you drag a party around with all your standard RPG stuff and then some kind of bizarre real-time battle thing happens that isn't clear at all. That said, they have an impressive array of merchandizing opportunities lined up for this game.
• Inazuma Eleven Ares was announced and Level 5 didn't seem especially concerned about announcing an actual game outside of saying that it's coming out at some point next year for TBA systems. You can buy a watch pedometer and import stats into the game. They have TV anime plans (this seems to be the flagship of this product) and started hinting at various merchandizing plans. I'll go out on a limb and guess iOS/Android, 3DS, and maybe NX, but that's speculation on my part. The anime stats in 2017, but I'm not sure if the game is out then too.
• Level 5 showed off their new 1970s anime Time Bokan 24, which adds a couple of Level 5 original characters to Time Bokan for a new anime. There doesn't appear to be any game associated with this at all, but maybe some day.
• Megaton Musashi capped off the show with its big debut as Level-5's new Anime, Manga, and Toy franchise. It's about three high school boys who pilot a mech together to fight invading aliens. In theory this is also a game, but they spent 20-30 minutes on everything else and about 3 seconds acknowledging that there was a video game component. They showed a 3DS and an image with PlayStation buttons on it, but said that platforms were TBA. If this is coming out in 2018 - and this is quite plausible since I'm not convinced the game actually exists yet - you can imagine why they wouldn't be 100% sure of what it will show up on.

Layton 7 and Ni No Kuni 2 were not present, though both currently still have webpages on Level 5's site.

 

[Memento]

Is there anything that could boost PS4 hardware before Final Fantasy XV and Persona 5 in September?

 

[Alrus]

I think Layton 7 is just going to get scrapped at this point, they clearly don't know what to do with it.

 

[Kresnik258]

Spending 3 (or was it 4?) years developing Ys to only get those kind of sales and then maybe another 20-30k on ps4 seems like a bad business idea.

Ys really should be a lower budget 12-18 month dev period game based on the sales the series supports.

Have you got a source for the 3/4 year development? Given Falcom is still relatively small and has developed 3 games since MoC, I find it had to believe they've been developing VIII all this time.

 

[Arzehn]

Is there anything that could boost PS4 hardware before Final Fantasy XV and Persona 5 in September?

Tales of Berseria in August, perhaps a small bump

 

[Ryng_tolu]

Is there anything that could boost PS4 hardware before Final Fantasy XV and Persona 5 in September?

Obon week

 

[Memento]

Tales of Berseria in August, perhaps a small bump

Obon week

Nice. Thanks!

 

[Rymuth]

I think Layton 7 is just going to get scrapped at this point, they clearly don't know what to do with it.

Echoing this sentiment.

 

[BriBri]

Some notes from the Famitsu first half report. Everything down year-on-year. Top four software are Dragon Quest Monsters Joker 3, Yokai Sangokushi, Monster Hunter X and Kirby Planet Robobot. Animal Crossing: New Leaf combined over 94,000 (!) and a Wii game sold over 40,000 (!!).

 

[ßig]

Some notes from the Famitsu first half report. Everything down year-on-year. Top four software are Dragon Quest Monsters Joker 3, Yokai Sangokushi, Monster Hunter X and Kirby Planet Robobot. Animal Crossing: New Leaf combined over 94,000 (!) and a Wii game sold over 40,000 (!!).

"A Wii game" can you elaborate? Is it Momotaro?

 

[Bladenic]

Why the significant difference between the two sales reports? For Yokai Watch especially.

 

[BriBri]

"A Wii game" can you elaborate? Is it Momotaro?

Yes.

In other notes: Monster Strike will never make a million and Sumikko Gurashi 2 sold another 43,000 +.

 

[Mpl90]

Some notes from the Famitsu first half report. Everything down year-on-year. Top four software are Dragon Quest Monsters Joker 3, Yokai Sangokushi, Monster Hunter X and Kirby Planet Robobot. Animal Crossing: New Leaf combined over 94,000 (!) and a Wii game sold over 40,000 (!!).

The first-half report combines retail and digital, while showing digital sales separated, then?

 

[BriBri]

Just retail numbers (download cards = retail).

 

[Bruno MB]

Yo-Kai Watch 3: Sushi / Tempura got an additional +200.000 shipment during its second week.

 

[duckroll]

Well yes but even with Snack World they announced the platforms. This lack of any platform is weird to me. I fully expect mobile + something.

It's very simple. When they announced Snack World, by the estimated time of release, they knew there would be no other viable platforms other than 3DS and mobile. With their next projects coming out late 2017 and beyond, it makes sense to wait and see how Snack World does first and how the market reacts to new platforms before making a marketing move on that.

 

[Oregano]

The interesting thing about Level 5's mobile strategy is that they seem to be going all in on both F2P games and premium games and it will be interesting to see how successful the latter are.

Is Layton simultaneous across 3DS/Mobile because if so that and Snack World may be tests to see what release strategy is best for games that are shared between mobile and dedicated devices.

 

[Busaiku]

Wonder if Pokémon Go can carry Alpha Sapphire/Omega Ruby to Yokai Watch 2 numbers.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Wonder if Pokémon Go can carry Alpha Sapphire/Omega Ruby to Yokai Watch 2 numbers.

Doubt it, but I do think it'll hype sales for Sun and Moon.

 

[Ōkami]

Wonder if Pokémon Go can carry Alpha Sapphire/Omega Ruby to Yokai Watch 2 numbers.

It kind of did already

[3DS] Yo-kai Watch 2: Bony Spirits / Fleshy Souls: 3.178.000
[3DS] Pokémon OmegaRuby / AlphaSapphire: 3.180.000

Yokai Watch data doesn't include digital, Pokémon does, YW2 is accurate as of a couple of weeks ago, Pokémon's is 4 months old.

We won't know for sure until Nintendo gives us an update, which will probably be next April/May.

 

[Ryng_tolu]

It kind of did already

[3DS] Yo-kai Watch 2: Bony Spirits / Fleshy Souls: 3.178.000
[3DS] Pokémon OmegaRuby / AlphaSapphire: 3.180.000

Yokai Watch data doesn't include digital, Pokémon does, YW2 is accurate as of a couple of weeks ago, Pokémon's is 4 months old.

We won't know for sure until Nintendo gives us an update, which will probably be next April/May.

This also depend if you use Media Create or Famitsu though.

Considering most of us use Media Create, we will see if Pokémon Moon and Sun can sell over 3.2 million here.

 

[Vena]

It's very simple. When they announced Snack World, by the estimated time of release, they knew there would be no other viable platforms other than 3DS and mobile. With their next projects coming out late 2017 and beyond, it makes sense to wait and see how Snack World does first and how the market reacts to new platforms before making a marketing move on that.

Oh that's fair. I was thinking more that if they opt to not even announced 3DS, Vita, PS4, etc, then those are effectively just not planned at all. The NX being some potential option after they see how the market responds, and, if all else fails, just go full mobile.

But you're right that that is over simplifying.

 

[hiska-kun]

This also depend if you use Media Create or Famitsu though.

Considering most of us use Media Create, we will see if Pokémon Moon and Sun can sell over 3.2 million here.

You have to remember that Famitsu and Nintendo, both, include the double pack and it's counted as two copies. While Media Create tracks the double pack separately and as one copy.

The double pack sold 98k by the end of 2014, and since it was limited, their sales shouldn't have changed.

LTD

[3DS] Pokemon Omega Ruby/Pokemon Alpha Sapphire: Dual Pack <RPG> (Pokemon Co.) {2014.11.21} (¥9.874) - 98.101

If you multiply this number x2, and you add it to the other numbers, they match with Famitsu and Nintendo's shipments.

Media Create (including double pack)

[3DS] Pokemon Omega Ruby / Alpha Sapphire # <RPG> (Pokemon Co.) {2014.11.21} (¥4.571) - 3.027.198

 

[Eolz]

Maybe? It's better than Ys VII but only on par with the Ys IV remake. Not a bomba but Falcom might be expecting better.

I see. Guess an hold is at least good in this time.

I think Layton 7 is just going to get scrapped at this point, they clearly don't know what to do with it.

Feels like Lady Layton replaced it, or at least give them an excuse to follow up on that if it sells well.

 

[BluePikmin11]

It kind of did already

[3DS] Yo-kai Watch 2: Bony Spirits / Fleshy Souls: 3.178.000
[3DS] Pokémon OmegaRuby / AlphaSapphire: 3.180.000

Yokai Watch data doesn't include digital, Pokémon does, YW2 is accurate as of a couple of weeks ago, Pokémon's is 4 months old.

We won't know for sure until Nintendo gives us an update, which will probably be next April/May.

How come you're not counting the Shinuichi version?

 

[Takao]

I completely forgot this is out this week. Is PS4 about to claim another victim?

 

[kuroneko0509]

I completely forgot this is out this week. Is PS4 about to claim another victim?

can we blame deresute if that game didn't sell well?

 

[Ōkami]

How come you're not counting the Shinuichi version?

Because Level 5 doesn't do it.

Nor anyone else really. Shinuchi is it's own thing.

 

[duckroll]

Feels like Lady Layton replaced it, or at least give them an excuse to follow up on that if it sells well.

I'm not seeing any replacement. Lady Layton is a new Professor Layton sequel/spinoff that looks and plays exactly like the normal series. Layton 7 was a weird experimental idea that had almost nothing to do with Professor Layton. First it was some weird social/exploration town game with a ton of characters, then it was a Werewolf clone. I wouldn't be surprised if it no longer existed as a product, but if so nothing replaced it. For the better!

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Yokai Watch 3 is suffering from pretty big drops. No wonder Level 5 is going hard on mobile with the franchise, with the fuckton of spin-offs coming up in less than a year.

I wonder when devs will realize that solution to franchise fatigue isn't to increase the frequency and number of spinoffs..

 

[Ryng_tolu]

You have to remember that Famitsu and Nintendo, both, include the double pack and it's counted as two copies. While Media Create tracks the double pack separately and as one copy.

The double pack sold 98k by the end of 2014, and since it was limited, their sales shouldn't have changed.

LTD

[3DS] Pokemon Omega Ruby/Pokemon Alpha Sapphire: Dual Pack <RPG> (Pokemon Co.) {2014.11.21} (¥9.874) - 98.101

If you multiply this number x2, and you add it to the other numbers, they match with Famitsu and Nintendo's shipments.

Media Create (including double pack)

[3DS] Pokemon Omega Ruby / Alpha Sapphire # <RPG> (Pokemon Co.) {2014.11.21} (¥4.571) - 3.027.198

Oh, totally forgot this!

Yes in this case i can see Pokèmon ORAS outsell Yokai Watch 2 in Media Create.

P.S
Now that i think so, did XY got a double pack too? I don't remember this, but i Know there is a good difference between Famitsu and Media Create For XY.

 

[duckroll]

I wonder when devs will realize that solution to franchise fatigue isn't to increase the frequency and number of spinoffs..

I think this has been pointed out many, many times before in these threads, but there's a good counter argument to this. Some business models revolve around knowing that the product you are offering has a finite lifespan regardless, and it makes more sense to milk it while it's hot. Could the milking be contributing to franchise fatigue? Of course. Would the franchise have the long term viability of something like Pokemon without the milking? Impossible to say. On the other hand, if we look at something like Monster Hunter, it's milked annually in pretty much the same way, and yet it's hardly dead.

It's nice to imagine that ideally if a publisher "treats a franchise well" it will remain popular forever, but when we're talking about franchises designed to appeal to young demographics and mimic popular trends of the day to begin with, I'm not sure that long term sustainability is part of the original expectation.

 

[Man God]

Level 5 gonna Level 5. I'm just constantly impressed how they almost always reach the exact same level with their franchises and yet can never cross that barrier. Layton is their first chance at redemption and the one that nearly made it because of its gigantic push in Europe.

 

[duckroll]

I'm just constantly impressed how they almost always reach the exact same level with their franchises and yet can never cross that barrier.

Level.... 5?

 

[Man God]

Level.... 5?

To be this consistent takes Gundam Ages!

 

[Brazil]

Level 5 gonna Level 5. I'm just constantly impressed how they almost always reach the exact same level with their franchises and yet can never cross that barrier. Layton is their first chance at redemption and the one that nearly made it because of its gigantic push in Europe.

Yo-kai Watch's definitely multiple levels of success above everything else they've done before (apart from, you know, Dragon Quest).

 

[Man God]

Yo-kai Watch's definitely multiple levels of success above everything else they've done before (apart from, you know, Dragon Quest).

I'm not so sure its that far ahead of Layton, which did huge numbers in the west.

 

[duckroll]

I'm not so sure its that far ahead of Layton, which did huge numbers in the west.

Level5 gets 100% of the profits from Yokai Watch in Japan, they likely get a smaller percentage from Layton outside of Japan, given how Nintendo did all the heavy lifting. Not to mention, Yokai Watch has a TON of merchandising revenue, while Layton has pretty much zero.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think this has been pointed out many, many times before in these threads, but there's a good counter argument to this. Some business models revolve around knowing that the product you are offering has a finite lifespan regardless, and it makes more sense to milk it while it's hot. Could the milking be contributing to franchise fatigue? Of course. Would the franchise have the long term viability of something like Pokemon without the milking? Impossible to say. On the other hand, if we look at something like Monster Hunter, it's milked annually in pretty much the same way, and yet it's hardly dead.

It's nice to imagine that ideally if a publisher "treats a franchise well" it will remain popular forever, but when we're talking about franchises designed to appeal to young demographics and mimic popular trends of the day to begin with, I'm not sure that long term sustainability is part of the original expectation.

That's what I've been trying to tell people on social media.

Pokemon does the same thing, and Go is still a huge success in Japan.

Thanks for posting this.

 

[Ōkami]

Success of Layton in the west had to be shared with Nintendo.

Dragon Quest money had to be shared with Square Enix.

All Yokai Watch games have sold more than 10m units combined in Japan and it's all theirs.

Combined toys, movies, anime, all theirs.

 

[Man God]

Level5 gets 100% of the profits from Yokai Watch in Japan, they likely get a smaller percentage from Layton outside of Japan, given how Nintendo did all the heavy lifting.

Absolutely true. Their next most successful property would have to be what, Inazuma? That's not even close to those two. Layton was a big deal once upon a time and really put them on a map as a independent developer.

 

[Brazil]

I'm not so sure its that far ahead of Layton, which did huge numbers in the west.

Layton's just a bunch of videogames. Yo-kai Watch is a bunch a videogames plus toys, plushies, collectibles, an anime, films, a brand to stick on food for kids and all kinds of other shit.

Edit: What the duck said:

Level5 gets 100% of the profits from Yokai Watch in Japan, they likely get a smaller percentage from Layton outside of Japan, given how Nintendo did all the heavy lifting. Not to mention, Yokai Watch has a TON of merchandising revenue, while Layton has pretty much zero.

 

[duckroll]

Dragon Quest money had to be shared with Square Enix.

I'm not even convinced that there was any sharing here to begin with. They were paid to make a game for Square Enix, they had zero ownership of the game itself. Maybe they got bonuses for performance if they had good contracts, but beyond that I don't see a reason there would be any profit sharing.

With Layton, at least it's their IP, so Nintendo is the one licensing it. So they should have royalties for every western sale regardless. Dragon Quest? I don't see it.