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[frankie_baby]

https://twitter.com/mochi_wsj/status/899565985400733697

The only one i see hitting that is street fighter, monhun maybe the bottom end at a push

 

[kuroneko0509]

if 1.5m for mhw is worldwide estimate from Capcom, it's kinda hilarious imo after considering all kind of narratives exist until this day

 

[dracula_x]

While I would disagree with D.Lo in simply calling the PS3 internally a PC box, it is still a rather unattractive product to your average Japanese consumer who has been trending towards mobility over power when it comes to computing in general.

The CELL's use in the PS3 is also not very close to Kutaragi's dream, and had to be supplemented in the end by a PC graphics card to remain competitive. (I don't think many people would have found that product attractive anyway though, so I suppose it doesn't matter that it turned out different.)

The PS3's CELL was pretty much just an exotic CPU, which there is nothing wrong with that, nor is there anything wrong with going x86 as the Japanese are concerned, it's the packaging and how the power is used where the xbox and PlayStation fall short.

Yeah, but that's another story.
Original idea was to use that chip also in medicine, science, etc. The main point is that Cell wasn't designed just for PS3.

 

[frankie_baby]

if 1.5m for mhw is worldwide estimate from Capcom, it's kinda hilarious imo

Its about what I'd expect on consoles (pc adding a bit extra)

 

[LordKano]

They can't expect to sell less MHW than MvCI, that's ridiculous. They wouldn't have greenlight MHW if it was to sell 1.5M units.

 

[13ruce]

1.5 m world wide sounds about right monster hunter at it's best just passes 1m in the west doubt it will hit 2m or more even with the multiple versions and on 2 consoles and pc.

Or well 1.5m for west only sounds about right.with japan it will be more.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

if 1.5m for mhw is worldwide estimate from Capcom, it's kinda hilarious imo after considering all kind of narratives exist until this day

This doesn't add up with the full sales estimates from their last financial meeting, unless they have hilariously inflated expectations for every other game to pick up the additional 2.5 million slack I expected them to put on MHW.

 

[Sandfox]

1.5 m world wide sounds about right monster hunter at it's best just passes 1m in the west doubt it will hit 2m or more even with the multiple versions and on 2 consoles and pc.

Or well 1.5m for west only sounds about right.with japan it will be more.

The PC version is releasing later so it would just be one or two months worth of sales from the two console versions.

 

[Oregano]

Whilst it's fishy, 1.5 million is reasonable if the game launches late in March.

 

[jonno394]

Whilst it's fishy, 1.5 million is reasonable if the game launches late in March.

Yeah, especially considering that PS4 titles in Japan never really reach 1m. DQ XI sold over 1m, wonder what it would have sold if 3DS version wasn't there though.

MH Launching to around 1m in Japan in March 2018 and 500k WW isn't too far fetched.

 

[LordKano]

They're going to consoles looking for growth, not massive drop. They can't expect to sell less, even if it's just the first few weeks, than MHXX, that's absurd. The lowest possible bar should be 2.5-3M.

 

[Chris1964]

These aren't Capcom expectations. It would be a massive bomb for MHW and over performance for everything else.

 

[ggx2ac]

All the relevant tweets.

BGC Partners Anvarzadeh: Ultra Street Fighter II for Switch sold as many as 450,000 copies, way above the Capcom's target of 200,000 copies.

https://twitter.com/mochi_wsj/status/899565438400462849

BGC Partners Anvarzadeh: For USF II, MH XX and RE Revelations on Switch, Capcom has estimated sales at around 300,000-500,000 copies each.

https://twitter.com/mochi_wsj/status/899565985400733697

BGC Partners Anvarzadeh: Marvel vs Capcom Infinite (2mn copies) and MH World (with a very cautious estimate of 1.5mn units);

https://twitter.com/mochi_wsj/status/899566288279818240

BGC Partners Anvarzadeh: it is not aggressively increasing development of VR titles. That's it from his letter: Capcom Visit: Buy reiterated

https://twitter.com/mochi_wsj/status/899566668212445185

Something doesn't add up because they have a sales forecast of 10.3 million units from new titles.

So there's like a huge blank of sales that are going to come from somewhere.

According to the last tweet, this was a visit where the firm recommended buying stock in Capcom.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

Confusing.

But it is Capcom!

 

[KtSlime]

Yeah, but that's another story.
Original idea was to use that chip also in medicine, science, etc. The main point is that Cell wasn't designed just for PS3.

What the CELL's design was intended for has little to do with how the PS3 turned out (the consumer facing product, not the developer driven platform). The PS3 barely offered anything over the xbox 360 save for Sony's support and reputation. And while they hadn't completely abandoned the Japanese consumer at that time and did make some effort to appeal the best they could, but they were going in a different direction than what your average consumer wanted by that time. After that experience they doubled down on the PC route for PS4.

Anyway, Sony has all the resources (although with a slightly bruised brand image) to make another successful product in Japan if they wanted to, but they don't. They are happy at the moment with getting Japanese developers to focus on exporting their products than trying to address what Japan wants (whatever that is).

 

[massoluk]

Uh Something must be missing in context, surely Capcom is not expecting MHW at 1.5m. Why bother moving from handheld at that expectation.

 

[Fisico]

Is there a trend of japanese publisher of rpg going more towards fantasy/action/western (maybe not all three but at least two of them) these days or that's just me?

The past few months we got Istolia from Square Enix, Fantasy Atlus project, Fantasy/Western/Action from Monolith, and maybe the Granblue PS4 from Cygames (that one might be a stretch though?)

I could see multiple reasons behind it, game designers being heavily influenced by Skyrim and other western titles (quote from Hideo Baba, I think at some point Aonuma mentioned Skyrim as a title he played as benchmark, amongst others western games), the Souls IP having a huge success outside Japan (and a decent success in Japan as well) and overall the need of a fresh start for teams/ip whose popularity have been stagnant (monolith titles) or as way to try to reach new/bigger audience and find new business opportunites (atlus, square enix, cygames)

I would have loved to mention Game of Thrones as potential influence as well but it's not very popular here and I don't remember seeing any developer name drop the show/books in any interview, I might have missed it though, despite that the later quote from Monolith recruitment page should still make it a decent benchmark for their team at least

For the battle planners, they are also looking for those with an interest in medieval fantasy and understanding of western entertainment trends.

Possibly there are some other specific japanese influence through other media that I don't know of, if anyone knows then by all mean enlighten me!

At that point it wouldn't surprise me if the next Tales of follow that trend a bit as well (and by that I mean not the pathetic attempt that Zestiria was on multiple levels) which, ironically, would make it the first new title being released that I mentioned despite not even being officially announced

Maybe I'm wording what I want to say poorly, feel free to point out how wrong I am if so

 

[Primethius]

Uh Something must be missing in context, surely Capcom is not expecting MHW at 1.5m. Why bother moving from handheld at that expectation.

I doubt 1.5 mil is the correct number but sales aren't the only reason they moved away from 3DS with World.

 

[KtSlime]

Fisico: Could you define what is different from before? I agree with the focusing more on action as a western driven phenomenon, however the Fantasy part is not too different than it had been in the past which draws from Tolkien, Arthurian, D&D, SciFi, mythology and other historical influences. I would like to better understand what you are thinking.

 

[Fiendcode]

Whilst it's fishy, 1.5 million is reasonable if the game launches late in March.

XX launched late March and had a 2m target.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

If they had a 2 million goal for XX on 3DS at the latter half of March, why would they only expect 1.5 million worldwide on 3 platforms in, speculatively, the same span.

 

[L~A]

Bandai-Namco bringing the big guns for Nintendo Switch this year. They're bringing 2017 GOTY, the Dark Souls of party-game... Gotouji Tetsudou for Nintendo Switch!!

No, it's not me beign super excited, they really did put !! in the title

https://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/201708210070/

Spoiler

(Port of the Wii U version of the game with extra content, but missing features like Miiverse)

 

[Zedark]

If they had a 2 million goal for XX on 3DS at the latter half of March, why would they only expect 1.5 million worldwide on 3 platforms in, speculatively, the same span.

2 platforms (and, let's be honest, effectively 1 platform). Still, a project like World cannot be financed by 1.5 million users, ie MHXX sales. It would need excessive legs in that case, something even the PC version won't allow imo.

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

If they had a 2 million goal for XX on 3DS at the latter half of March, why would they only expect 1.5 million worldwide on 3 platforms in, speculatively, the same span.

Because thats realistic, given the fact that MH had been always much more successful on handhelds. And the MH audience is on the 3DS.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Because thats realistic, given the fact that MH had been always much more successful on handhelds.

Then why spend so much money developing this new game in this new direction if they see even less return on it than on the 3DS?

 

[cw_sasuke]

I doubt 1.5 mil is the correct number but sales aren't the only reason they moved away from 3DS with World.

Lack of growth as is lackluster sales are exactly the reason why they moved from 3DS to HD consoles.

Dont think MHW would be a thing if they didnt expect higher sales from that market sooner or later.

 

[TheLegendaryN]

Capcom's worldwide target for Ultra Street Fighter II was 200k, apparently.

Source

 

[malikhaing_bayag]

Bandai-Namco bringing the big guns for Nintendo Switch this year. They're bringing 2017 GOTY, the Dark Souls of party-game... Gotouji Tetsudou for Nintendo Switch!!

No, it's not me beign super excited, they really did put !! in the title

https://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/201708210070/

Spoiler

(Port of the Wii U version of the game with extra content, but missing features like Miiverse)

Damn I read this wrong and thought that Bamco is bringing Dark Souls for Nintendo Switch!!

Then I read it again. The !! really got me.

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

Then why spend so much money developing this new game in this new direction if they see even less return on it than on the 3DS?

Obviously because 3DS is going out of business and Capcom was unsure how much of a success the Switch will be after the WiiU flopped. Either way it was clear that they have put more money in the graphics now.

I have no doubt that they already developing a Switch version of MHW now, given its success in Japan and worldwide, something like "MHW Ultimate".

 

[Fiendcode]

If 1.5m is the true target for World it's no wonder Capcom is keeping the "5" in reserve.

For comparison MH4U shipped is 1.5m in the west alone ltd.

 

[Primethius]

Lack of growth as is lackluster sales are exactly the reason why they moved from 3DS to HD consoles.

Dont think MHW would be a thing if they didnt expect higher sales from that market sooner or later.

I didn't say sales weren't a huge factor, just that they weren't the only reason. A part of it is not being stuck on developing on outdated hardware as a means of compromising game design and vision.

But then again, I'm fully expecting World to hit Switch. And the only reason it hasn't been announced yet is because Switch wasn't a thing when World started development and it's sort of hard to develop for something you don't know yet exists.

 

[D.Lo]

What the CELL's design was intended for has little to do with how the PS3 turned out (the consumer facing product, not the developer driven platform). The PS3 barely offered anything over the xbox 360 save for Sony's support and reputation. And while they hadn't completely abandoned the Japanese consumer at that time and did make some effort to appeal the best they could, but they were going in a different direction than what your average consumer wanted by that time. After that experience they doubled down on the PC route for PS4.

Anyway, Sony has all the resources (although with a slightly bruised brand image) to make another successful product in Japan if they wanted to, but they don't. They are happy at the moment with getting Japanese developers to focus on exporting their products than trying to address what Japan wants (whatever that is).

Thanks for backing up my general point. Whatever other plans there were, in the end PS3 was philosophically identical to the XB/360 model - HD before that was affordable (or indeed feasible in a small, quiet, reliable, well priced box - aka what a console used to be, including PS1/2). PS3 bled from both ends (it cost too much AND still lost money AND ran so hot internally that using it essentially killed it slowly). It was a journey down the power over elegance money hole. Even stuff like the Spider-Man font on the original model is a western focused choice.

Now there were other competing interests like the Blu-ray war, but ultimately it was a me-too 360.

 

[gtj1092]

2 platforms (and, let's be honest, effectively 1 platform). Still, a project like World cannot be financed by 1.5 million users, ie MHXX sales. It would need excessive legs in that case, something even the PC version won't allow imo.

Wasn't Zelda able to break even with only 2 million copies sold. Since when is this new era capcom known for big budget games. Just look at what they did with RE7.

 

[cw_sasuke]

I didn't say sales weren't a huge factor, just that they weren't the only reason. A part of it is not being stuck on developing on outdated hardware as a means of compromising game design and vision.

But then again, I'm fully expecting World to hit Switch. And the only reason it hasn't been announced yet is because Switch wasn't a thing when World started development and it's sort of hard to develop for something you don't know yet exists.

PSP - Wii - 3DS - WiiU ....being stuck on older hardware was never an issue for them - the number one reason they are jumping ship are that that they expect higher sales - which is pretty much the reason every publishers develops AAA games for the HD twins + PC. Capcom is no outlier.

Yeah, Switch will likely get another MH game down the line.....but lets see how MHW performs first.

 

[ggx2ac]

Wasn't Zelda able to break even with only 2 million copies sold. Since when is this new era capcom known for big budget games. Just look at what they did with RE7.

Nintendo doesn't have to pay licensing fees for the games it sells on their own consoles unlike Capcom.

 

[Fdkn]

Nintendo doesn't have to pay licensing fees for the games it sells on their own consoles unlike Capcom.

Capcom doesn't need over 300 devs for a game, unlike Nintendo with Zelda.

Okay, so? There are many factors that affect sales targets and I was pointing out that licensing fees is one of them.

Exactly, there are many factors. So why single out licenses as a counterpoint for a budget not being massive?

 

[ggx2ac]

Capcom doesn't need over 300 devs for a game, unlike Nintendo with Zelda.

Okay, so? There are many factors that affect sales targets and I was pointing out that licensing fees is one of them.

 

[frankie_baby]

Nintendo games also maintain prices, even if world posts a halfway decent number half its sales (especially in the west) will probably come from the bomba bin

 

[Gotdatmoney]

An expectation of 300-500k units for Revelations 1&2 and MHXX (in Japan) on Switch alone is hilarious given they only expect 1.5m units of MHW on 2 platforms as a totally new game with like a 100m install base.

If that is their true target prediction, they are low balling World and being really stupid about Switch expectations.

 

[Primethius]

PSP - Wii - 3DS - WiiU ....being stuck on older hardware was never an issue for them - the number one reason they are jumping ship are that that they expect higher sales - which is pretty much the reason every publishers develops AAA games for the HD twins + PC. Capcom is no outlier.

Yeah, Switch will likely get another MH game down the line.....but lets see how MHW performs first.

You just said "number one reason". I have not disagreed with that or said anything to the contrary.

And never being an issue before doesn't mean it's not an issue now? They've said in interviews that certain aspects of World have been features they've wanted to include in the past but were unable to do due to hardware limitations.

 

[ggx2ac]

Exactly, there are many factors. So why single out licenses as a counterpoint for a budget not being massive?

I'm not seeing what the big deal here is. I am just pointing out that it's odd to compare Capcom to Nintendo for sales targets when Nintendo doesn't lose a percentage of sales revenue due to licensing compared to Capcom.

Nintendo gets around 30% of the revenue from each sale of a third party game on the eShop.

I don't know the exact amount for physical copies at retail but this would have an affect on the sales target of a game. With Zelda, they'd need more than 2 million sales to break even if it was released on a competitor's platform.

 

[Oregano]

Capcom doesn't need over 300 devs for a game, unlike Nintendo with Zelda.



Exactly, there are many factors. So why single out licenses as a counterpoint for a budget not being massive?

Didn't MH4 have a massive development team despite being a 3DS game?

I very much doubt MH World is a small production by any means.

 

[BitStyle]

https://twitter.com/mochi_wsj/status/899565985400733697

lmao. Capcom never changes

 

[Fiendcode]

Wasn't Zelda able to break even with only 2 million copies sold. Since when is this new era capcom known for big budget games. Just look at what they did with RE7.

Monster Hunter isn't a 'break even' franchise for Capcom. It's their golden goose. Or at least it was.

I was wondering before why Capcom didn't give targets for MHW after their June results and if 1.5m is true I can see why.

Capcom doesn't need over 300 devs for a game, unlike Nintendo with Zelda.

MH4U had over 300 development staff credited. That swells to over 500 when you include CGI, localization, marketing, QA, etc.

 

[ggx2ac]

MH4U had over 300 development staff credited. That swells to over 500 when you include CGI, localization, marketing, QA, etc.

And I remembered Resident Evil 6 was one of their biggest games with a staffing of 600 people.

Resident Evil 6 had a development staff of more than 600, making it Capcom's largest production to date.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resident_Evil_6

 

[Fdkn]

Didn't MH4 have a massive development team despite being a 3DS game?

I very much doubt MH World is a small production by any means.

So then why are we talking about increased dev costs?

the missconception of 'looking good' = 'more money' is always missguided here. 300 devs working on a 3ds game for 3 years costs the same than those 300 devs working on a ps4/x1/pc game. there is no indication of MHteam suddenly growing to insane size

 

[cw_sasuke]

You just said "number one reason". I have not disagreed with that or said anything to the contrary.

And never being an issue before doesn't mean it's not an issue now? They've said in interviews that certain aspects of World have been features they've wanted to include in the past but were unable to do due to hardware limitations.

Oh i agree...nothing to add.

 

[Herb Alpert]

The next tweet has MHW at 1.5 million.

This can't be real... Right?

 

[Fiendcode]

So then why are we talking about increased dev costs?

the missconception of 'looking good' = 'more money' is always missguided here. 300 devs working on a 3ds game for 3 years costs the same than those 300 devs working on a ps4/x1/pc game. there is no indication of MHteam suddenly growing to insane size

Asset creation alone is going to swell manpower needs not to mention multiplatform development. Do you think FFXV had the same amount of staff as FFX? The MH team will have to grow.

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

So then why are we talking about increased dev costs?

the missconception of 'looking good' = 'more money' is always missguided here. 300 devs working on a 3ds game for 3 years costs the same than those 300 devs working on a ps4/x1/pc game. there is no indication of MHteam suddenly growing to insane size

Most of the development time and costs are spend for graphics. to go from "simple" 3ds models to "high end" models is a huge step.