DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Really, devs hate it? I've seen the odd comment but not seen a hatred for it.
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Microsoft CEO: Xbox Series X|S Has Outsold PS5 in NA for 3 Qtrs in a Row. Sales tracking ahead of 360.
- Thread starter Eddie-Griffin
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Really, devs hate it? I've seen the odd comment but not seen a hatred for it.
DaGwaphics
Member
There's a new level copium going around, maximum strength. I feel for those that feel the move to next-gen only games is going to lower demand for the XSS, that's specifically what will allow it to find its stride IMO. We'll see how it plays out.
As far as I know, we’ve only seen just the one leaked contract. And that’s between Sony and a much smaller, much weaker partner than Activision.
It’s a logical leap to presume that what is in one contract must be in ALL contracts.
ironically, you had no problems believing it when Colt Eastwood’s show said Playground was having problems with Fable.
Let’s not pick and choose when we believe idiots. Fair?
And for the record, yes, he’s a clown.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Best console? The ugly black box and 1080p machine in 2022 without a disc drive?
Ps5 got games and better controller.
I don’t think there is anything better about any of the Xboxes.
Xbox now is all about rentals and gamepass. That is only devaluing games and you see what happens when service is down. You can even play a disc game on X.
Ps5 digital is only 100 more than series S and offers much much more and a better controller. The tech is better too with better compression and ssd.
Although I have to admit series X is really good tech too this time around
octiny
Banned
Chukhopops
Member
Your post reads like somebody took all the dumbest possible GAF arguments and put them into one of those AI text generators.
DaGwaphics
Member
It gets questionable as soon as appearances/form factor are being used as a strong point for PS5.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
It's all true. You may wish it was just a dumb take.
Xbox got nothing to offer this gen except the studios they just money hatted.
One pointless console and one good console with bad digital policies and no exclusives.
Say whatever you want. It might sound harsh but it is what it is.
The best thing about X is backwards compat.
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iHaunter
Member
It's a PS5 Supply Issue... PS5 would outsell every console right now if it had the supply. It's a known issue. Console sales never mattered in general anyway, not until the end. The first 40-50 million seems to be par for the course.Xbox always on shelves, ps5 always sold out.
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
You have the nerve to say that while the PS5 DE is also without disc drive and call the Series X ugly while singing the praises of this hideous abortion of a console.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
That's why I didn't buy digital ps5.You have the nerve to say that while the PS5 DE is also without disc drive and call the Series X ugly while singing the praises of this hideous abortion of a console.
But it does not change the fact that it's much better deal and powerful than only 100$ cheaper series S.
And personally I think ps5 looks fantastic. At least it's not another plain box. I like the default white but you can swap covers.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I put black plates on my PS5 and using a black controller and honestly its still probably the ugliest console I have ever seen but beauty is in the eye of the beholderYou have the nerve to say that while the PS5 DE is also without disc drive and call the Series X ugly while singing the praises of this hideous abortion of a console.
Plus I do agree the tech in the new controller is really cool but I still way prefer the Xbox series controllers and the new PS controller can't even come close to the Elite controller.
But not trying to argue what other people prefer either just my 2 cents
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Ps5 is effing rancid and will fo down in history as the ugliest console ever created from the big 3.
Saying that the internals are cool so it doesn't really matter. I'll be changing to a slim as soon as I can.
Saying that the internals are cool so it doesn't really matter. I'll be changing to a slim as soon as I can.
Can you show me where I believed/relied on Colt Eastwood information? No? Ok then.
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Chukhopops
Member
Well for starters you can play disc games, digital games and even GP games offline. And there are certainly exclusive games whether you appreciate them or not.
So half is wrong facts and half is wrong opinions.
It's fuckin awful. There, it is my opinion that now should count as fact, according to you.
Lognor
Banned
Damn, what a meltdown! All because Xbox has outsold the PS5 the past 3 quarters. Yikes! This going to be a rough gen for you, bud.
MasterCornholio
get in here! We got a meltdown on our hands!
twilo99
Member
And it will only get bigger as time goes on. The price point is simply too good, especially when you have recession vibes floating around.
ManaByte
Member
twilo99
Member
That depends on how you define "best" .. Pure specs obviously not, but price vs. entertainment ratio? There is nothing better.
Edit. Ok maybe the PS4..
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Lol if that's a meltdown then I am not sure how else to talk.Damn, what a meltdown! All because Xbox has outsold the PS5 the past 3 quarters. Yikes! This going to be a rough gen for you, bud.
Opinions are not meltdowns.
And it's not even an opinion. It's mostly facts. Xbox really does not have worthy exclusives and games do have problem running offline or from the disc like halo (single player).
ANYWAY ALL THAT ASIDE
I know people have trouble accepting anyone else opinions and mine is that xbox sucks ass this and last generation. The only difference being that this time they got good hardware as opposed to last time and they could/should really turn the boat around. But the Phill is too go luck nice guy to do anything.
I would really want 360 time to come back. Some good competition would fuel the market !!!
All that happens now is that all customers loose because xbox and sony are competing with GAAS and shitspasses... and we all loose with these services.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Gamepass is good but new ps premium is also good or even better maybe.
But that's not the fight I want to see... Who got better gaas service. F that
Trazyn the Infinite
Member
This is generally my opinion. The best games on Xbox atm have been backwards compatible games or PC titles/remasters. Their new stuff is usually trash for me and the fact that I can’t play most of my physical games Offline? Fucking insulting.
Not sure why people keep accepting lower quality when they can demand and *get* higher quality from the same people. We did it with the Xbox One prior to its launch. We can do it again.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Yeah exactly. Industry is drying and people are fighting over who got better shit gaas service... jeez.
Wake up people! Where are the games?! On either side?! PlayStation got more but it's still very little... but xbox is responsible for a lot of this. The gp trend, devaluation of gaming and so on. Just because they lost the exclusives war.
I know this is tlou1 video but listen to first 10 minutes of Robin speech. He summarizes it perfectly
People who think I have a meltdown are crazy. It's not my meltdown. It's meltdown of gaming in recent years.
PaintTinJr
Member
Well as I said earlier in the thread, the GC is the benchmark and it had 10M sales, and wasn't at risk of being used as an indies box, a minecraft only machine for the kids or a gamepass box, and it at full utilisation in Nintendo first party software was superior to the original Xbox in graphical capabilities, and wasn't esoteric, either so was easy to port to, and yet it lost 3rd party support.
So how many are we talking? Let say Xbox manage to match 360 numbers with Series, lots of those owners are either going to have an XsX in their lounge too, or PS5, or a higher performance PC. Even forgetting that RRoD inflated 360 userbase by at least 20-40m lets say half of the 80M are XsS - without a XsX - do you really expect more than 1 in 4 to not own a PS5 or high end PC, and not be using it for non-A-AAA gaming that would need XsX/PS5 level software? I don't.
At best I expect 5M to be that number - and that's probably a 200% over estimate - and if GC's 10M was too little, why would developers incur that cost?
It also might not help that PlayStation gamers like myself will take a dim view of software that lacks Rockstar tier polish on the PS5 if a XsS version is also in the mix. Optics for selling a game to PS5/XsX gamers won't be helped by the XsS IMHO, so even if there was 5M to sell to, and that could add 200k sales, is that enough to offset lost sales from people that want games designed completely around the PS5 and XsX capabilities?
That's like saying devs are not making money if I play their games on PC at lower resolutions instead of at 4k. Series S is a Series X with a worse GPU that runs at lower resolutions to compensate.
dano1
A Sheep
This is the reason! I don’t know anyone that wants a Xbox but plenty that can’t find a PS5
MatrixReloaded101
Member
Keep in mind the impact of the pandemic and Covid has slowed down game development. If the pandemic didn't happen we would have gotten more game releases and the devolvement of newer games would have been further along.
Also the creation of new IP and the fast output of game releases will never get back to the way it use to be years ago because games take longer to make and they are more expensive to create (AAA games). The possibility of releasing a game that fails is scarier now for publishers which is why more thought is getting put into the decision on what games to release.
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CitizenKratos
Member
Just prove that then. Just name one direct response to my first point you made that I didn’t respond to directly? You can’t expect me to respond to your off topic pseudo responses.
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Riky
$MSFT
You're literally just making stuff up.
The GameCube didn't sell 10 million units, more like 22 million and to claim it was superior to the Xbox graphically is hilarious, any third party game shows you that wasn't true. I would love to have seen Doom 3 for example run on either Gamecube or PS2.
lnflated 360 userbase by 20-40 million
they gave a three year warranty and repaired them, stop making numbers up.You really believe 3 out of four Series S owners will have a PS5 or "high end PC", deluded. I know several Series S owners only one owns either of those things, me. None of the other Series S owners do, mainly because they purchased a Series S because they wanted a cheap, small and quiet next gen console, they are satisfied with that.
You're literally making up numbers with no evidence as your GameCube number shows, or just lying.
You keep talking about the "cost" to developers, where is this coming from? Supply the evidence, as has been pointed out to you already, it is on the SAME GDK as Series X and Windows PC.
Then we get to the crux, you describe yourself as a "PlayStation Gamer" and take a "dim view" of games if there is a Series S version..... Yet no doubt are lapping up Horizon FW, GT7 and will be Ragnorak despite them being designed around the capabilities of a 1.8 tflop PS4.....
You are probably the only person who thinks like this, I doubt developers are losing any sleep about your lost sale.
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PaintTinJr
Member
It might seem the same but is vastly different because you can release whatever you want on PC in any state, but on consoles you have a technical requirements checklist (TRCs) which all must be met before you will be given the authorisation for going gold with the release.
The point I was making is that the Series S adds substantial extra work, which is only going to get harder as devs push the designs to compliment the PS5/XsX, and if there is no measurable market swing from PS5 to those XsS, so it is new revenue for devs on Xbox then that works is just a cost for devs with zero return, and negative optics for their output, compared to say a game just aimed at PS5 and PCs with a 2060 super/3060/4050ti or better in two years time.
This seems to come from a position of ignorance. GameCube’s struggles with third party support came mainly from the fact that their demographic wasn’t buying these games in droves, their ‘kiddie’ image that they tried unsuccessfully to fully shake off, their mini-dvd format and their controller.
Not sure where you got the idea that the GameCube was superior to the xbox in graphical capabilities.
This bit is nonsense.
Again, a whole wall of text to end up with a nonsensical point. Devs will not be allowed to make Xbox Series games without releasing on Series S.
I don’t understand. ‘Dim view’ like, you’d go fight the developers?
How many PC owners with powerful GPUs took ‘dim views’ of your console?
Nobody is going to design a game for the series S and scale upwards. You design for the ps5/XSX and scale down. Isn’t that obvious?
Whining about the Series S is meaningless, since the Switch 2 and Steamdeck 2 will be targets for most multiplatform games for the next half decade.
There’s never been a period in Xbox history where console sales haven’t mattered.
Woopah
Member
Right, the Wii games were built in isolation from the 360/PS3 games and all three consoles were part of the same generation. Xbox Series and PS5 are part of the same generation, regardless of their respective line ups. That's not going to change
There will be very few third party games that absolutely require the power of the PS5. The vast majority of games (at least outside Japan) will be multiplatform and games will still be coming to Series S in 3, 4 years from now.
PaintTinJr
Member
IIRC it lost 3rd party support by the time it sold 10M, but if we are saying it was 20M, then that just makes my XsS point even stronger, as for parity XsS would need even more users that weren't buying the A-AAA games for their XsX/PC or PS5 to make XsS development worthwhile in a few years time.
The visual fx on games by Nintendo, in games like Metroid Prime were never matched on Xbox. Even take a look a Monkeyball's port by TT and checkout the missing shader fx in Monkey target on just the Xbox port - despite it being higher resolution than the PS2 and GC. For visual fx techniques the Xbox was the weakest console of that generation ,even if it did higher resolutions. The techniques used in SotC or snaker eater on PS2 just weren't feasible on the the original Xbox.
As for Doom3, if you read nvidia's dev paper about carmack's reversal - the game's signature shadows absent from the xbox version - the explicitly state that the reversal algorithm would have mapped perfectly to the PS2's graphics capabilities, so it would have had better fx, just probably at 400x300 or 320x240, although like the xbox it would have needed the PS2 add-on HDD too because of memory limits.
The active userbase was about 40-50m at best and there was mention of this in an old eurogamer article at the time IIRC, but I still assumed 80M split evenly between XsX and Xss with my estimate, did I not?lnflated 360 userbase by 20-40 million
But will they buy a PS5 or XsX when readily available and prices change? One copy of devs game but developing two SKUs offers the dev and pub nothing but cost.
Developers go to the wall all the time, anyone that's ever worked in the industry - even briefly - or had family work in the industry knows how precarious staying in business is, so every saving and reduction of risk mitigates that.
I've said those native apps look positively cross-gen, and when PlayStation starts properly using the PS5 geometry engine there will be a gulf between those very good looking PS4 games and proper PS5 games - go back and re-read my comments.
Fredrik
Member
Xbox do need to release some 1st party games, I’m 100% with you there. But the whole industry is dying?? And where are the games on either side?? Feels like I’m drowning in games because I’m 100% onboard both Gamepass and the new PS+. For me it’s the golden age. I haven’t had this many games to play since I had a C64 and could swap cassette tapes with 100 games with class mates on the school yard.
Riky
$MSFT
You were only 12 million out. However you think it strengthens your point, the Xbox sold a couple of million more and got the support, how come? Because of the buying habits of Nintendo fans and the online components, nothing to do with install base. How many did you think the Xbox One X sold and PS4 Pro sold? Did they get all the games? Yes because it's mandated by the platform holder, Sony even had rules on framerate compared to PS4. Microsoft has the same mandate for Series S, so you're all out of luck with that train of thought.
Your hurt about Xbox being the most powerful of the gen is still with you, but a Nintendo first party game and a later port of Monkey Ball aren't really going to compensate for all the day and date third party releases that were far superior on Xbox, go back and check all the comparisons at your leisure, I had all three and an imaginary port of Doom 3 for PS2 is just that, imaginary, just like Half Life 2.
You say the 360 active userbase was 40-50 million at best, provide the source of this information please, the ylod was also a thing but I'm not going to pluck figures out of thin air like you are.
Will Series S owners buy another console?, like I say not the ones I know haven't, some people who own a Series X might buy a Series S for the bedroom or another TV like I did, but the people I know don't buy multiple consoles. They had cost reasons for buying a Series S, they are not core gamers and don't care about the differences, the games load fast and the console is quiet is what they've told me, they are more than happy with it. Even if these people just have Gamepass the third parties get paid for that, many have said how happy they are with that, like it or not.
You think developing a Series S version on a GDK with Series X and multiple configurations of PC will send developers to the wall? When you have an example of a developer saying this then bring it forward, I think they have a lot more pressing issues than a Series S version with a lower resolution. Since it's mandated with a Series X version though you won't be able to.
Again what is "Geometry Engine"? The same phrase is used in the hotchips presentation for Series X and S, it doesn't mean anything. Third parties will still develop for multiple PC configurations, that's a fact and far lower as the Steam survey shows than you claim.
When Series S runs Forza Motorsport at what Turn 10 claims is just a lower resolution it will look a generational leap over what we had on even Xbox One X the most powerful last gen console as the Series S simply contains the same more modern hardware features that Series X does, already with Flight Simulator Series S shows a gulf to last gen.
It's here to stay and has sold millions, until you have a game where there is no Series S version or a developer blaming the Series S for going bust it's all fantasy in your head.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
You are drowning in old games and crap.
Look at 2007 or 2011 or any year around/before that.
We had more quality big releases each month compared to whole year.
Barely anything comes out nowadays. I am not disregarding indies but I am not going to play every shit game out there. And that's what out there. Barely anything new, unique and when it comes too AA and AAA... it's 1 or 2 games per year... if even that.
If you don't see industry is drying up, I can't show it to you but the only new games I've bought this year are horizon and Elden Ring...
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Punished Miku
Gold Member
You missed a lot of cool games this year. Is that seriously all you played?
ManaByte
Member
Or three quarters in a row.
TheGodfather07
Member
By how much though? 100k? 500k? Wish we get concrete data instead of just statements like this.
PaintTinJr
Member
Those mandates make games released look better - Death Stranding captured on PS4 Pro - for marketing, the XsS is the exact opposite, like showing ps3/360 versions of Metal gear 5.
The original Xbox abandoned the gen earliest, despite being last to release, so devs already had access to 360 dev kits sure-ing up support, and even after the 360 was released Nintendo still released Twilight Princess banger on the GC. Xbox support that gen is an outlier anyway because they were spending money on support like water. They aren't throwing their money around with all devs like that now, and the Xbox was literally a DirectXbox PC, unlike the XsS with its irregular downgraded memory and memory bandwidth compared to the XsX.
The active userbase was probably about the same, because lots of PS3 owners bought 3rd party games on 360 in NA - I suspect - so the PS3 was relatively dead to them in dev terms for non-exclusives. But my point about the XsS is still assuming 80m
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You are also moving the goalpost. I wasn't talking about resolution or frame-rate in a faceoff, but visual fx, which at the transition period between fixed path and shaders was ahead on both PS2 and GC in mapping to a wider set of visual fx.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Yeah I finished stray too. Not interested in sifu.
Anything you recommend I might’ve missed?
Fredrik
Member
I’ll list the games I’ve played for the first time this year or just installed waiting for the right time to play for the first time:
Horizon Forbidden West
Gran Turismo 7
Elden Ring
Spider-Man Miles Morales
Moss Book 2
Returnal
Chorvs
LootRiver
Tunic
Doom Eternal
Shadow of the Colossus remake
Trek to Yomi
Days Gone
Death Stranding DC
Uncharted Lost Legacy
Stray
Forza Horizon 5 Hot Wheels
Mass Effect Legendary Edition
No Man’s Sky Endurance
A Plague Tale
Cuphead The Delicious Last Course
Shredders
Naraka
Death’s Door
Detroit Become Human
Raiden V
The Big Butcher
Shadow of the Beast
The Gunk
I’ve probably missed a few. I’d agree that some of these are bad, and some are oldish too, but some has been absolutely phenomenal. And it was simply a long time since I had so much to play in just 7 months.
It definitely take longer time to make games nowdays, no doubt about that. But there must be some bubble life going on here if you’ve truly only played Elden Ring and Horizon this year. What platforms and subscription services do you have access to?
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