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Microsoft Says Sony Will Benefit From Launching First-Party Games on PS Plus

DarkMage619

Report me if I continue to console war
Forza has MTX. Micro Transaction is a small transaction. There’s numerous one time purhcases for small amounts you can make to make the game less grindy/monotonous. It also has large scale expansions.

GT7 has more MTX, but that doesn’t change the fact that Forza also has them.
Are you defining microtransactions as DLC? That's a pretty general term if so. By that logic just about all games have microtransactions then.
 

01011001

Member
Are you defining microtransactions as DLC? That's a pretty general term if so. By that logic just about all games have microtransactions then.

he is right tho, Forza Horizon 5 has MTX, I bet you and most people that played it don't even know what these are or how to even buy them...
and if you find out what it is you will think anyone who buys them has to be fucking retarded.

I'm not gonna say what it is just to see if anyone actually knows what I'm talking about.
 
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Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Yeah why not put them on the service to make it more appealing to get more subs. If Microsoft loosing money on there with more subs than Sony then they need to attract more subs to the service.


If everybody saying Microsoft loosing money on its sub service then you can bet Sony is to
Sony isn't doing day and date so MS will undoubtedly lose more money
 

GhostOfTsu

Banned
Isn’t that the same as Gran turismo though? And how the game has been reguardless of gamepass
There is none of that in GT7. You can just buy credit and that's it.

Now you guys are going back to make a big distinction between DLC and MTX just so all the $3 car packs in Forza are called DLC. Embarrassing.
 
Are you defining microtransactions as DLC? That's a pretty general term if so. By that logic just about all games have microtransactions then.

I get you are a mindless Xbox Shill, but ffs mate. “Most games” don’t have DLC, let alone micro transactions. The fact that you are *still* lost even when I so blatantly spelled it out for you isn’t even just incompetence anymore but sheer willful ignorance.

Stop defending trash and cancerous design.
 

GhostOfTsu

Banned
I get you are a mindless Xbox Shill, but ffs mate. “Most games” don’t have DLC, let alone micro transactions. The fact that you are *still* lost even when I so blatantly spelled it out for you isn’t even just incompetence anymore but sheer willful ignorance.

Stop defending trash and cancerous design.
In this thread I learned that mtx is only when you buy "credit" (like in GT7) everything else is DLC and doesn't count 🤣
 

phil_t98

Member
Sony isn't doing day and date so MS will undoubtedly lose more money

But they still loosing money then?

The other thing you guys neve seem to factor in is that Microsoft still sells the games. Halo was the second best selling game in December to. Didn’t forza horizon have something like 5 million active players online befor the game hit gamepass? The ultimate version was released a week befor it hit gamepass.
 
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phil_t98

Member
There is none of that in GT7. You can just buy credit and that's it.

Now you guys are going back to make a big distinction between DLC and MTX just so all the $3 car packs in Forza are called DLC. Embarrassing.

So basicly you saying sony does not earn any money of MTX on Gran turismo?
 
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Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
But they still loosing money then?

The other thing you guys neve seem to factor in is that Microsoft still sells the games. Halo was the second best selling game in December to. Didn’t forza horizon have something like 5 million active players online befor the game hit gamepass? The ultimate version was released a week befor it hit gamepass.
Not nearly the same. Sony's games get added to the service when the sales slow
 

Three

Member
That's because the majority of Sony games are curated single-player experiences. The few games Sony does output with multiplayer components like GT7 are just as monetized as any other in the industry. Expect TLoU2 Factions to be no different.
So now you understand why it would not benefit to put Spiderman 2, God Of War, Horizon Forbidden West on PS+ Extra day one. There are no mtxs in them and they would suffer losses. Unless you are trying to say stop making those type of games and make multiplayer games with microtransactions. In which case, no thanks.
 
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Three

Member
But they still loosing money then?

The other thing you guys neve seem to factor in is that Microsoft still sells the games. Halo was the second best selling game in December to. Didn’t forza horizon have something like 5 million active players online befor the game hit gamepass? The ultimate version was released a week befor it hit gamepass.
Halo was not even in the top 20 of game sales in the UK on launch month. It practically disappeared from all charts NPD included by Feb and made no appearance in any rolling sales chart. Sales would be really poor in comparison for games that go to Gamepass/PS+ extra.
 
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So now you understand why it would not benefit to put Spiderman 2, God Of War, Horizon Forbidden West on PS+ Extra day one. There are no mtxs in them and they would suffer losses. Unless you are trying to say stop making those type of games and make multiplayer games with microtransactions. In which case, no thanks.
But isn't Sony "aggressively pushing the GaaS model" and want to become a GaaS factory with something like 10 GaaS Titles planned for the next couple of years?
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
But they still loosing money then?

The other thing you guys neve seem to factor in is that Microsoft still sells the games. Halo was the second best selling game in December to. Didn’t forza horizon have something like 5 million active players online befor the game hit gamepass? The ultimate version was released a week befor it hit gamepass.

Exactly. While their (MS's) main bread and butter seems to be to get stuff on game pass day 1, all those games still sell at retail and sell a pretty penny at that.

That and we've already seen via Ampere's market analysis that GP subs were making approximately 180~200 million each month. Those are recurring monthly revenue streams, not a single big jolt at a games retail release. If a game like Forza has millions of paying customers even before it hits a sub service, it's a great success on both fronts.
 

phil_t98

Member
Halo was not even in the top 20 of game sales in the UK on launch month. It practically disappeared from all charts NPD included by Feb and made no appearance in any rolling sales chart. Sales would be really poor in comparison for games that go to Gamepass/PS+ extra.


why people use the UK as sales data all the time?

halo-infinite-ranked-2-in-us-sales-in-december

number 2 in America which is a bigger market, it also had the most players ever at launch. you saying it was afailure at launch because of uk sales?
 

DarkMage619

Report me if I continue to console war
I get you are a mindless Xbox Shill, but ffs mate. “Most games” don’t have DLC, let alone micro transactions. The fact that you are *still* lost even when I so blatantly spelled it out for you isn’t even just incompetence anymore but sheer willful ignorance.

Stop defending trash and cancerous design.
Yeah man bad MS for selling a Hot Wheels expansions on Forza 5. It's cancerous! Ooo and bonus points for calling anyone who questions mindless Xbox hate a 'shill'. Very original. Apparently you shill just as hard It's just cool to shill against the Xbox than point out a website that plainly said Forza is NOT an example of a game with microtransactions. Who's alt are you anyway?

But isn't Sony "aggressively pushing the GaaS model" and want to become a GaaS factory with something like 10 GaaS Titles planned for the next couple of years?
Maybe once these titles launch Sony will start putting their games in PS+ day and date. MS has already shown this is one of the main draws to Game pass and if Sony is really worried about competition this would certainly make PS+ more attractive.
 

Three

Member
why people use the UK as sales data all the time?

halo-infinite-ranked-2-in-us-sales-in-december

number 2 in America which is a bigger market, it also had the most players ever at launch. you saying it was afailure at launch because of uk sales?
Uk is xboxs 2nd biggest market. I'm saying its sales were low in the UK and NA. I don't care about player numbers, which dropped fast and is now half of BF2042 player count and behind MCC anyway so I'm not sure why it's being brought up. I know it was number two on launch month in NPD but it dropped off quick. To 15th in the second month and then out. it hasn't made any 12 month rolling chart thereafter. It's being outsold by most other games and isn't charting at all. That includes being considerably outsold by Far Cry 6, Battlefield 2042, 2020's Miles Morales and Horizon Forbidden west. Its sales are not something to write home about but it doesn't matter anyway because it's mainly a f2p multiplayer GaaS game with mtxs. It doesn't need game sales to survive, I just don't understand why people try and talk about its (campaign) sales like they were good though. They weren't.
 
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GhostOfTsu

Banned
Yeah man bad MS for selling a Hot Wheels expansions on Forza 5. It's cancerous! Ooo and bonus points for calling anyone who questions mindless Xbox hate a 'shill'. Very original. Apparently you shill just as hard It's just cool to shill against the Xbox than point out a website that plainly said Forza is NOT an example of a game with microtransactions. Who's alt are you anyway?
Still ignoring all the Forza car packs after several posts

Mr Rogers Clown GIF
 
Yeah man bad MS for selling a Hot Wheels expansions on Forza 5. It's cancerous! Ooo and bonus points for calling anyone who questions mindless Xbox hate a 'shill'. Very original. Apparently you shill just as hard It's just cool to shill against the Xbox than point out a website that plainly said Forza is NOT an example of a game with microtransactions. Who's alt are you anyway?
You warriors truly are sad little individuals, aren’t you? More strawman arguments, purposefully taking what people said and purposefully twisting and changing what they say. You *are* a mindless warrior, a shill for MS. Even the moderation staff can see it given your title!

Keep projecting though, kiddo.
 

anothertech

Member
You warriors truly are sad little individuals, aren’t you? More strawman arguments, purposefully taking what people said and purposefully twisting and changing what they say. You *are* a mindless warrior, a shill for MS. Even the moderation staff can see it given your title!

Keep projecting though, kiddo.
They learn from master spin doctor of all time, father Phil. lolol

 
Yeah man bad MS for selling a Hot Wheels expansions on Forza 5. It's cancerous! Ooo and bonus points for calling anyone who questions mindless Xbox hate a 'shill'. Very original. Apparently you shill just as hard It's just cool to shill against the Xbox than point out a website that plainly said Forza is NOT an example of a game with microtransactions. Who's alt are you anyway?


Maybe once these titles launch Sony will start putting their games in PS+ day and date. MS has already shown this is one of the main draws to Game pass and if Sony is really worried about competition this would certainly make PS+ more attractive.

Congrats on the tag BTW.
 

phil_t98

Member
Uk is xboxs 2nd biggest market. I'm saying its sales were low in the UK and NA. I don't care about player numbers, which dropped fast and is now half of BF2042 player count and behind MCC anyway so I'm not sure why it's being brought up. I know it was number two on launch month in NPD but it dropped off quick. To 15th in the second month and then out. it hasn't made any 12 month rolling chart thereafter. It's being outsold by most other games and isn't charting at all. That includes being considerably outsold by Far Cry 6, Battlefield 2042, 2020's Miles Morales and Horizon Forbidden west. Its sales are not something to write home about but it doesn't matter anyway because it's mainly a f2p multiplayer GaaS game with mtxs. It doesn't need game sales to survive, I just don't understand why people try and talk about its (campaign) sales like they were good though. They weren't.

Again the sales numbers add to the game pass numbers. I ain’t sure what your getting. It had the biggest player number of any halo so the amount of sale plus gamepass subs add up. Again Phil Spencer’s has publicly said gamepass isn’t burning money and is sustainable. I ain’t sure what you ain’t getting?
 

RespawnX

Member
Still ignoring all the Forza car packs after several posts

Mr Rogers Clown GIF
Everyone ignores Forza car packs in a game with around 600 freely available cars. Most of the people who play the game on a regular basis got the premium version or the premium add-on bundle which includes the car pass. The comparison between FH5 and GT7 business modell (MTX) is so ridicoulus, that even Playground Games is making fun of Polyphony with the newest season. They introduced a car you can buy with 143.000.000 credits, as reference to the real world price (Gran Turismo price policy). Go for it and grind the hell out of the game and get the credits or just play the season which takes you 6-8 hours of play time to get the car (along with 9 additional cars). By the way all for free and without a single MTX or grind. For people who dont have the time to play 6-8 hours a month they usually reintroduce cars in later seasons at lower entry point which takes even less time. Yes, buying a single car for 3 bucks could be considered as MTX. But why should you do that? They just give the cars some price tag to remind people to buy the DLC.
 

Three

Member
Again the sales numbers add to the game pass numbers. I ain’t sure what your getting. It had the biggest player number of any halo so the amount of sale plus gamepass subs add up. Again Phil Spencer’s has publicly said gamepass isn’t burning money and is sustainable. I ain’t sure what you ain’t getting?
I'm saying the sales would be much lower on a day and date release. So although 'MS sells the games too' it sold a lot less than other games.

You brought up player count, I'm not sure why. The player count has dropped significantly since launch, retention was bad, but that's beside the point. Halo wasn't a good seller like you made out. They would gain very little from game sales and lose money if they didn't have mtxs and I bet even with them they saw retention wasn't great and that MCC had higher player counts so 343 went back and added microtransactions to MCC just a couple of months ago.
 
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Z O N E

Member
But then how will they remake the same game 3 times and sell it at full price if it can be played on the subscription day one?
 

phil_t98

Member
I'm saying the sales would be much lower on a day and date release. So although 'MS sells the games too' it sold a lot less than other games.

You brought up player count, I'm not sure why. The player count has dropped significantly since launch, retention was bad, but that's beside the point. Halo wasn't a good seller like you made out. They would gain very little from game sales and lose money if they didn't have mtxs and I bet even with them they saw retention wasn't great and that MCC had higher player counts so 343 went back and added microtransactions to MCC just a couple of months ago.

Player numbers as the most successful halo launch, show how many are paying for gamepass and playing the game.

People like yourself always concerned about gamepass and money but never bring up that if Microsoft loosing money with a sun service then Sony certainly is with less numbers
 

01011001

Member
so people are actually still comparing selling car bundles (cars that aren't available in the game itself and are therefore add-on content) to selling in-game currency that helps you skip grinding for cars.

we truly live in "special" times aren't we?
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
so people are actually still comparing selling car bundles (cars that aren't available in the game itself and are therefore add-on content) to selling in-game currency that helps you skip grinding for cars.

we truly live in "special" times aren't we?
Which one is better or worse to you?
 
So now you understand why it would not benefit to put Spiderman 2, God Of War, Horizon Forbidden West on PS+ Extra day one. There are no mtxs in them and they would suffer losses. Unless you are trying to say stop making those type of games and make multiplayer games with microtransactions. In which case, no thanks.
Unfortunately for you, that's seems to be exactly what Sony is going to focus on for the foreseeable future. Jade Raymond's studio is working on a new PlayStation IP that will be using many of the cloud aspects that had been developed when she was working for Google Stadia. TLoU Factions is taking years to create because it's supposed to be one of the largest multiplayer offerings from Sony in a very long time and will probably be GAAS. The acquisition of Bungie took place because they are one of the leaders in online monetization and found great success in GAAS when it was still in it's infancy. Seems like you should jump ship now if that doesn't sound appealing.
 
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Three

Member
Unfortunately for you, that's seems to be exactly what Sony is going to focus on for the foreseeable future. Jade Raymond's studio is working on a new PlayStation IP that will be using many of the cloud aspects that had been developed when she was working for Google Stadia. TLoU Factions is taking years to create because it's supposed to be one of the largest multiplayer offerings from Sony in a very long time and will probably be GAAS. The acquisition of Bungie took place because they are one of the leaders in online monetization and found great success in GAAS when it was still in it's infancy. Seems like you should jump ship now if that doesn't sound appealing.

Oh trust me I know, I've been complaining about the shift in the industry constantly for at least 5 yrs:
PS plus and Game Pass don't shield you from it, they accelerate you towards it. A lot of the games (though not all) on those services are mostly disguised f2p games with microtransactions to make the actual money. In a subscription dominant future where very few people buy games, games with microtransactions and GaaS are what will thrive.

Why is it shit though, because it doesn't have day one games because the type of games wouldn't make sense on the service. What will spartacus change? The answer to that is probably why you will get pushback.

Unlike music streaming and subscriptions, game streaming and subscriptions change the type of games being made. Monetisation becomes different. Big budget single player games make less sense on the service. GaaS and mtx filled games do. People maximise profit, ever wondered why youtube videos are usually 10mins long with a stupid long intro of logos flying about? It was because of how youtube did monetisation. When they changed from number of views to time spent in video and the fact that you can add ads anywhere in 10min vids. Going from sales to engagement only in games would mean the same thing. Gaas and MTX games will dominate. Big single player games will struggle to make money on the service.

I got lot of resistance that things won't change and we will be fine but with subs increasing, and game sales declining this will proliferate.
 

Three

Member
I think you know why those boxed UK sales are so over emphasized.

think christian pulisic GIF by Gatorade


:messenger_winking_tongue:

Psss, here's a little secret, it's UK GSD data which includes digital sales too.




If you actually care about data instead of your corporate proxy ego here you go:

GSD December 2021 Top 20 Games (Digital + Physical)


PositionTitle
1FIFA 22 (EA)
2Call of Duty: Vanguard (Activision Blizzard)
3Grand Theft Auto 5 (Rockstar)
4F1 2021 (Codemasters)
5Just Dance 2022 (Ubisoft)
6Spider-Man: Miles Morales (Sony)
7Battlefield 2042 (EA)
8Mario Kart 8: Deluxe (Nintendo)*
9Pokémon Brilliant Diamond (Nintendo)*
10Far Cry 6 (Ubisoft)
11Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy (Square Enix)
12Minecraft: Nintendo Switch Edition (Mojang/Nintendo)
13Red Dead Redemption 2 (Rockstar)
14Riders Republic (Ubisoft)
15Animal Crossing: New Horizons (Nintendo)*
16Pokémon Shining Pearl (Nintendo)*
17Mortal Kombat 11 (Warner Bros)
18Assassin's Creed Valhalla (Ubisoft)
19LEGO Harry Potter Collection (Warner Bros)
20Grand Theft Auto: The Trilogy Definitive Edition (Rockstar)

Source:
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/xbox-...uk-sales-in-strong-december-uk-monthly-charts

People like yourself always concerned about gamepass and money but never bring up that if Microsoft loosing money with a sun service then Sony certainly is with less numbers

This isn't a case of "my favourite company is losing more money than your favourite company" . That may be what it's about for you but not for me. I'm just making the point that trying to say "put your games day one on your sub you'll benefit, look at Halos sales they were still great" is wrong because Halo did not sell well. Its sales were terrible and it's a GaaS game at heart trying to make mtx money.
 
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Three

Member
so people are actually still comparing selling car bundles (cars that aren't available in the game itself and are therefore add-on content) to selling in-game currency that helps you skip grinding for cars.

we truly live in "special" times aren't we?
In all fairness GT adds cars throughout the year too but for free. Those are add on content too but you can unlock them without paying £2.49 for individual cars or buying 'battle/car passes'. I'd hate if the car I owned was locked behind a paywall like that. At the end of the day though both games have mtxs in them and there is no two ways about it.
 

01011001

Member
In all fairness GT adds cars throughout the year too but for free. Those are add on content too but you can unlock them without paying £2.49 for individual cars or buying 'battle/car passes'. I'd hate if the car I owned was locked behind a paywall like that. At the end of the day though both games have mtxs in them and there is no two ways about it.

Forza also adds free cars with each season (1 season lasts 4 weeks I think). How many free cars did GT add until now?

the issue with purchasable in-game currency is the fact that you can never be sure if the in-game prices are meant to be a grindfest in order to make you buy currency. the fact that they have made the cars more expensive after launch makes me think that they are absolutely doing that.
 
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Three

Member
Forza also adds free cars with each season (1 season lasts 4 weeks I think). How many free cars did GT add until now?

the issue with purchasable in-game currency is the fact that you can never be sure if the in-game prices are meant to be a grindfest in order to make you buy currency. the fact that they have made the cars more expensive after launch makes me think that they are absolutely doing that.
Not sure tbh. I would say about 4 per month and the occasional new tracks.

Forza does this too though with the grind. Credits in the game themselves are designed to be the grind there too. Forza nerfed credit prizes and Super WheelSpins (basically loot boxes) in a feb update for this reason. GT7 has the roulette spin (basically loot boxes again) too. They are pretty similar in grind and Forza obviously encourages people to purchase mtxs/season pass/ vip membership to get things like x2 credit rewards or weekly bonus lootboxes (super wheelspins) etc.

Just saying they are both designed with mtxs.
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
Psss, here's a little secret, it's UK GSD data which includes digital sales too.


If I was referring to you directly or the data you were bringing forward, I would have quoted you directly. I was referencing the gaf meme about the UK boxed charts.

FH5 was the best selling in the FH series, and it was day 1 on GP. SoT is also Rare's best selling title, and also released on GP. Why is it only Halo that you mention in regards to sales? Could it be that offering the mulitplayer for free automatically limited sales (since many view Halo as a multiplayer experience)? Or maybe the Halo IP just weakened in appeal in the years since the last iteration. The only thing guaranteed regarding the Halo release is that its performance is hardly the only barometer for sales.
 
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Three

Member
If I was referring to you directly or was otherwise concerned with the data you were bringing forward, I would have quoted you directly. I was referencing the gaf meme about the UK boxed charts.

FH5 was the best selling in the FH series, and it was day 1 on GP. SoT is also Rare's best selling title, and also released on GP. Why is it only Halo that you mention in regards to sales? Could it be that offering the mulitplayer for free automatically limited sales (since many view Halo as a multiplayer experience)? Or maybe the Halo IP just weakened in appeal in the years since the last iteration. The only thing guaranteed regarding the Halo release is that its performance is hardly the only barometer for sales.
You replied to someone who replied to me directly regarding UK sales data. I thought you were referring to me.

For both SoT and FH you have data against the franchise itself only for 'launch month' not in the series or overall. Look at FH5 sales in the UK the second month in the chart above. Do you see it anywhere even compared to titles from 2020? In the UK the racing genre is popular too, still didn't do well. F12021 high up there and that launched in July.

GP can be a good word of mouth driver for marketing launch, especially for less known/popular games, but it makes it difficult to sustain game sales. This is even true for Halo NPD where it showed up 2nd, but was 15th the second month then out by the 3rd. If you looked at the best selling games the past 12 months for any month thereafter it didn't show up. That's an indication sales are low. The reason Halo was discussed too was because somebody brought it up trying to suggest it's a good seller when it really wasn't.
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
You replied to someone who replied to me directly regarding UK sales data. I thought you were referring to me.

For both SoT and FH you have data against the franchise itself only for 'launch month' not in the series or overall. Look at FH5 sales in the UK the second month in the chart above. Do you see it anywhere even compared to titles from 2020? In the UK the racing genre is popular too, still didn't do well. F12021 high up there and that launched in July.

GP can be a good word of mouth driver for marketing launch, especially for less known/popular games, but it makes it difficult to sustain game sales. This is even true for Halo NPD where it showed up 2nd, but was 15th the second month then out by the 3rd. If you looked at the best selling games the past 12 months for any month thereafter it didn't show up. That's an indication sales are low. The reason Halo was discussed too was because somebody brought it up trying to suggest it's a good seller when it really wasn't.

For SoT, it's the lifetime numbers that are being talked about. In regards to FH5, if GP was going to hurt the launch you'd think the first month would be the most obvious (that's also the most important window financially). To convince yourself that these chart positions are indicative of the subscription model, you'd have to first convince yourself that the huge gulf in install base between Xbox and PS/Nintendo isn't a major contributing factor (even with PC in the mix, console is still a major sales driver for most titles released). 100m+ potential customers vs. 50m, I wonder how this could ever shake out. LOL

People who want to play a game are going to play the game, regardless of if it's on a subscription or not. The only thing that changes is how they choose to pay. The subscription doesn't give you a comparable sales unit, but certainly could result in more $ earned. With the subscription model you are trading a portion of sales (partially or in some cases like Adobe, completely) for the new recurring revenue stream. In most cases the sustained recurring revenue is the smarter play in total $. Regardless of any sales decline that results.
 
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phil_t98

Member
Psss, here's a little secret, it's UK GSD data which includes digital sales too.




If you actually care about data instead of your corporate proxy ego here you go:

GSD December 2021 Top 20 Games (Digital + Physical)


PositionTitle
1FIFA 22 (EA)
2Call of Duty: Vanguard (Activision Blizzard)
3Grand Theft Auto 5 (Rockstar)
4F1 2021 (Codemasters)
5Just Dance 2022 (Ubisoft)
6Spider-Man: Miles Morales (Sony)
7Battlefield 2042 (EA)
8Mario Kart 8: Deluxe (Nintendo)*
9Pokémon Brilliant Diamond (Nintendo)*
10Far Cry 6 (Ubisoft)
11Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy (Square Enix)
12Minecraft: Nintendo Switch Edition (Mojang/Nintendo)
13Red Dead Redemption 2 (Rockstar)
14Riders Republic (Ubisoft)
15Animal Crossing: New Horizons (Nintendo)*
16Pokémon Shining Pearl (Nintendo)*
17Mortal Kombat 11 (Warner Bros)
18Assassin's Creed Valhalla (Ubisoft)
19LEGO Harry Potter Collection (Warner Bros)
20Grand Theft Auto: The Trilogy Definitive Edition (Rockstar)

Source:
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/xbox-...uk-sales-in-strong-december-uk-monthly-charts



This isn't a case of "my favourite company is losing more money than your favourite company" . That may be what it's about for you but not for me. I'm just making the point that trying to say "put your games day one on your sub you'll benefit, look at Halos sales they were still great" is wrong because Halo did not sell well. Its sales were terrible and it's a GaaS game at heart trying to make mtx money.


UK market sales again, why is it only UK sales? is that to fit your agenda?

they have reached number 2 in December in the US and then add the gamepass Subs to it. your troll concerned about a company that is prepared to spend 70 billion to purchase a publisher to add their games to gamepass. your concerned that gamepass model doesn't work and yet Sony has copied the gamepass model except for putting their games on there day one, therefor its less consumer friendly.


US Sales
halo-infinite-ranked-2-in-us-sales-in-december
 
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UK market sales again, why is it only UK sales? is that to fit your agenda?

they have reached number 2 in December in the US and then add the gamepass Subs to it. your troll concerned about a company that is prepared to spend 70 billion to purchase a publisher to add their games to gamepass. your concerned that gamepass model doesn't work and yet Sony has copied the gamepass model except for putting their games on there day one, therefor its less consumer friendly.


US Sales
halo-infinite-ranked-2-in-us-sales-in-december
I legit think you have reading comprehension failure.
As already explained the game sold high one month then dropped off.

If data for US both physical and digital was available for 2021 I'm sure he would be using it, but it isn't. Instead he's using what is available and applying it using common sense since the UK is xbox second biggest market

Why is this difficult? If the game sold so well in US prove it instead of one month.
 

phil_t98

Member
I legit think you have reading comprehension failure.
As already explained the game sold high one month then dropped off.

If data for US both physical and digital was available for 2021 I'm sure he would be using it, but it isn't. Instead he's using what is available and applying it using common sense since the UK is xbox second biggest market

Why is this difficult? If the game sold so well in US prove it instead of one month.


again the UK could be gamepass biggest market.

so lets look at Sony game for money then, the most recent search of god of war is over 500 million, Microsoft gamepass has over 25 million subs at the moment so that's roughly over 250 million a month going through their accounts.

Yes money has too go to other companies for the game son there. as we seen the other day an indie dev was paid 600,000 for their game on there. bigger games cost more. wasn't guardians 20 mill to go on there? now factor that in for how much money goes through the accounts a year, nearly 4 billion just off gamepass then what ever sales the games make. Microsoft are doing ok still and I don't get why people bring up this so much. if it was loosing so much money why would Sony convert PS+ into something very similar to gamepass?
 

Dibils2k

Member
Psss, here's a little secret, it's UK GSD data which includes digital sales too.




If you actually care about data instead of your corporate proxy ego here you go:

GSD December 2021 Top 20 Games (Digital + Physical)


PositionTitle
1FIFA 22 (EA)
2Call of Duty: Vanguard (Activision Blizzard)
3Grand Theft Auto 5 (Rockstar)
4F1 2021 (Codemasters)
5Just Dance 2022 (Ubisoft)
6Spider-Man: Miles Morales (Sony)
7Battlefield 2042 (EA)
8Mario Kart 8: Deluxe (Nintendo)*
9Pokémon Brilliant Diamond (Nintendo)*
10Far Cry 6 (Ubisoft)
11Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy (Square Enix)
12Minecraft: Nintendo Switch Edition (Mojang/Nintendo)
13Red Dead Redemption 2 (Rockstar)
14Riders Republic (Ubisoft)
15Animal Crossing: New Horizons (Nintendo)*
16Pokémon Shining Pearl (Nintendo)*
17Mortal Kombat 11 (Warner Bros)
18Assassin's Creed Valhalla (Ubisoft)
19LEGO Harry Potter Collection (Warner Bros)
20Grand Theft Auto: The Trilogy Definitive Edition (Rockstar)

Source:
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/xbox-...uk-sales-in-strong-december-uk-monthly-charts



This isn't a case of "my favourite company is losing more money than your favourite company" . That may be what it's about for you but not for me. I'm just making the point that trying to say "put your games day one on your sub you'll benefit, look at Halos sales they were still great" is wrong because Halo did not sell well. Its sales were terrible and it's a GaaS game at heart trying to make mtx money.
You do realize Halo Infinite is a free to play game (you dont even need gamepass)...

the only ones buying it would be people wanting to play campaign, and thats already a minority of most Halo gamers, thats the biggest impact to sales, not Gamepass
 
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again the UK could be gamepass biggest market.

so lets look at Sony game for money then, the most recent search of god of war is over 500 million, Microsoft gamepass has over 25 million subs at the moment so that's roughly over 250 million a month going through their accounts.

Yes money has too go to other companies for the game son there. as we seen the other day an indie dev was paid 600,000 for their game on there. bigger games cost more. wasn't guardians 20 mill to go on there? now factor that in for how much money goes through the accounts a year, nearly 4 billion just off gamepass then what ever sales the games make. Microsoft are doing ok still and I don't get why people bring up this so much. if it was loosing so much money why would Sony convert PS+ into something very similar to gamepass?
Exactly Sony are reacting to Gamepass and they are very concerned because once COD is there day and date of release its going to explode in terms of subs.
 

phil_t98

Member
Exactly Sony are reacting to Gamepass and they are very concerned because once COD is there day and date of release its going to explode in terms of subs.

Am Glad somebody gets it. So much concern trolling and so many analysts in here knowing exactly that Microsoft is making a loss when they have come out and said they ain’t burning money and it’s sustainable
 

Three

Member
For SoT, it's the lifetime numbers that are being talked about. In regards to FH5, if GP was going to hurt the launch you'd think the first month would be the most obvious (that's also the most important window financially). To convince yourself that these chart positions are indicative of the subscription model, you'd have to first convince yourself that the huge gulf in install base between Xbox and PS/Nintendo isn't a major contributing factor (even with PC in the mix, console is still a major sales driver for most titles released). 100m+ potential customers vs. 50m, I wonder how this could ever shake out. LOL

People who want to play a game are going to play the game, regardless of if it's on a subscription or not. The only thing that changes is how they choose to pay. The subscription doesn't give you a comparable sales unit, but certainly could result in more $ earned. With the subscription model you are trading a portion of sales (partially or in some cases like Adobe, completely) for the new recurring revenue stream. In most cases the sustained recurring revenue is the smarter play in total $. Regardless of any sales decline that results.
For SoT it was launch month but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it were lifetime either. Rare made a xbox/PC game for the first time too so gulf in install bases would apply there too. We never actually get numbers though throught the years and they make their money on mtxs.

UK market sales again, why is it only UK sales? is that to fit your agenda?

they have reached number 2 in December in the US and then add the gamepass Subs to it. your troll concerned about a company that is prepared to spend 70 billion to purchase a publisher to add their games to gamepass. your concerned that gamepass model doesn't work and yet Sony has copied the gamepass model except for putting their games on there day one, therefor its less consumer friendly.


US Sales
halo-infinite-ranked-2-in-us-sales-in-december
You're ignoring what's being said. This was brought up again because somebody mentioned UK boxed sales and I was showing it was UK Digital + Physical. Then you repeat the same thing over and over.

You do realize Halo Infinite is a free to play game (you dont even need gamepass)...

the only ones buying it would be people wanting to play campaign, and thats already a minority of most Halo gamers, thats the biggest impact to sales, not Gamepass
Of course I do. I'm the one saying that's what it ultimately is and survives selling mtxs and that the campaign did not sell well. People were saying it sold well. They would have to be talking about the campaign obviously.
 

phil_t98

Member
For SoT it was launch month but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it were lifetime either. Rare made a xbox/PC game for the first time too so gulf in install bases would apply there too. We never actually get numbers though throught the years and they make their money on mtxs.


You're ignoring what's being said. This was brought up again because somebody mentioned UK boxed sales and I was showing it was UK Digital + Physical. Then you repeat the same thing over and over.


Of course I do. I'm the one saying that's what it ultimately is and survives selling mtxs and that the campaign did not sell well. People were saying it sold well. They would have to be talking about the campaign obviously.


So your using a market which is smaller to prove a point? When compared to a bigger market that it did chart on?
 

Three

Member
So your using a market which is smaller to prove a point? When compared to a bigger market that it did chart on?
Again you're ignoring everything that's already been said. I've already replied to all this. Uk is xbox's second largest market. US it charted 2nd then fell off staggeringly fast. Literally made no rolling 12 month charts in the US.

Best selling US (NA) games of 2021, nowhere to be seen:



Rolling 12 month charts in jan, feb or any month after, again nowhere to be seen:

I'm not sure why you are adamant to try and suggest Halo was a good seller but it honestly wasn't.
 
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