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[Audiophile]

Only way I see Sony allowing Game Pass on PS hardware is if it's for Xbox/Microsoft' first & second party titles only. If third party titles that are also on the PS platform/s were on Game Pass on PS, then it'd end up undercutting them.

If this is MS' strategy and they get their first/second party content on PS via Game Pass, alongside PC & Nintendo; then I don't expect an "Xbox 6", only "Xbox 5".

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I’d 100% prefer to play xbox games on ps with dualsense, but it ain’t happening

I mean you can just connect a Dualsense controller to your PC and play the PC version of the Xbox game

 

[ThatStupidLion]

More likely it gets on apple tv, firsticks, rokus, before ps/ninty

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Well yeah, of course they do. Who wouldn’t want access to those two huge install bases

 

[DeepEnigma]

Before GP is ever on PS consoles, Microsoft must port all their games to PS. The only other way it could possibly happen is a streaming app, but I just can't see Sony agreeing to that at all. So if Microsoft truly wants Game Pass everywhere then they are going to have to fully embrace their role as a full third party publisher first.

Otherwise, how does a GP subscription even exist on PlayStation? With what games?

Activision... and then UbiSoft, then EA, then.....

 

[Humdinger]

It matters when your point is that they wouldn't want to make more money because some of the new customers might not stick around. Their entire business model already includes taking on the same risk you think would prevent them from taking on new business.

No, I think you're missing what I'm saying. I'll try once more, then drop it. Current model is full GP. The proposed model under discussion is a highly stripped down GP, offering only 1st party exclusives. That is significantly less appealing -- significantly less likely to retain customers -- than is the full GP model. A greatly stripped down GP that offers only MS 1st party titles is going to have a lot of people "hitting and quitting" -- many more than a full GP model would. They aren't comparable.

 

[bitbydeath]

No, I think you're missing what I'm saying. I'll try once more, then drop it. Current model is full GP. The proposed model under discussion is a highly stripped down GP, offering only 1st party exclusives. That is significantly less appealing -- significantly less likely to retain customers -- than is the full GP model. A greatly stripped down GP that offers only MS 1st party titles is going to have a lot of people "hitting and quitting" -- many more than a full GP model would. They aren't comparable.

It’s hard to tell what MS’s plans are. One option that may or may not work out for them is to remove all other means of purchasing their titles except through a GamePass sub, so nobody anywhere can purchase COD, Diablo etc, only rent.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

In the worst case they will have a user base of 45-55 million. But the fact is that their software is not limited to console users because they also launch day one on PC whose user base is greater than all consoles combined.

Without forgetting that their IPs that generate the most income are launched and supported on all possible platforms (including PS and Nintendo)

That is to say, in reality Xbox first party games reach a user base greater than that of Playstation itself. It was decided years ago that Xbox console users would no longer be their only source of income. But the fact is that 50 million users (the vast majority of them loyal users and main generators of Gamepass subscriptions) is clearly essential today and in the medium long term.




For many years MS has also been a hardware company. I believe that they are currently in an unbeatable situation to attend the launch of any new hardware, including consoles.

At a time when more and more companies are starting to create their own gaming hardware (Valve, Asus etc...) I don't think MS is going to have any major problems.

MS is today in the best possible situation in its history to face the launch of new hardware and a new generation. It has never been in a better position to support its own console financially and in terms of the number of Studios. 45-55 millons while in the worst sales case you could expand certain releases to a larger user base (Switc 2 and PS), I certainly don't think it would be an unsustainable situation.

I think it would be the worst possible decision to end the hardware and a loyal user base precisely at the moment when they would not have the need to do so, also having the support and compensation that their games are released on PC to compensate.

That said, we have a leaked plan according to which they are already developing a new console for 2028 (with knowledge of the current situation) and they have appointed Sarah Bond as head of hardware..... It is clear that the intention right now does not seem to be that of not launching more consoles.

You're vastly overestimating their market reach there is no way they hit 50 million given they're trending so far below the Xbox One and so early.

I would estimate 30-45 million with 45 million being top end with them doing some massive deals for games like GTA6 and significant discounting. Closer to 30 million is more likely.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It’s hard to tell what MS’s plans are. One option that may or may not work out for them is to remove all other means of purchasing their titles except through a GamePass sub, so nobody anywhere can purchase COD, Diablo etc, only rent.

You can't do that via CoD for 10 years. And Diablo just isn't THAT big, especially on console. What's more likely is by walling off these titles behind a subscription model, that people will just move on to games that aren't walled off.

Look at Shenmue when it came out. Not sure there was a bigger game released at the time, but it was walled off, so few played it. Adding a subscription model as an additional barrier of entry isn't a great idea in the near term.

 

[bitbydeath]

You can't do that via CoD for 10 years. And Diablo just isn't THAT big, especially on console. What's more likely is by walling off these titles behind a subscription model, that people will just move on to games that aren't walled off.

Look at Shenmue when it came out. Not sure there was a bigger game released at the time, but it was walled off, so few played it. Adding a subscription model as an additional barrier of entry isn't a great idea in the near term.

It’s certainly risky, but I don’t know how else they can successfully pull off their vision.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It’s certainly risky, but I don’t know how else they can successfully pull off their vision.

They need to build as large a userbase via xCloud as they can as quickly as they can. They can then pivot away from hardware naturally.

Their entire focus should be putting out a streaming device as well as partnering with tv manufacturers and potentially streaming stick manufacturers to carry their app.

That's the vision, race to the front in cloud streaming, while slinking out of the hardware market.

With them no longer having to compete and be compared with Sony, it will free them up to offer the most value as possible for GamePass, which is just content, and not necessarily exclusive content or day 1 content (from 3rd parties).

They can make up some of their money by selling their products on PlayStation and Switch.

 

[Darsxx82]

You're vastly overestimating their market reach there is no way they hit 50 million given they're trending so far below the Xbox One and so early.

I would estimate 30-45 million with 45 million being top end with them doing some massive deals for games like GTA6 and significant discounting. Closer to 30 million is more likely.

??? It is MS itself that predicts these figures (54-58 million in the leaked docs of 2023). The difference with XBO is too small to draw conclusions about what the final figures will be.

Then, 30 millions maximum?? . Are you saying that in the next 4 years XSeries is only going to sell ~5 millions more?? ~ 1 million per year?? That's what it has sold so far this year alone.

What logical forecast does it include that with more accessible console prices and offers, with a catalog where the arrival of games from its 50+ studios will begin to be noticed, ABK games in Gpass, GTA VI.... XSeries will sell less than 1/5 of what it sells today???

Anyway, I'm certainly not going to bother arguing with you. With these forecasts is when I understand that you are expecting the disappearance of Xbox consoles in a few months

 

[bitbydeath]

They need to build as large a userbase via xCloud as they can as quickly as they can. They can then pivot away from hardware naturally.

Their entire focus should be putting out a streaming device as well as partnering with tv manufacturers and potentially streaming stick manufacturers to carry their app.

That's the vision, race to the front in cloud streaming, while slinking out of the hardware market.

With them no longer having to compete and be compared with Sony, it will free them up to offer the most value as possible for GamePass, which is just content, and not necessarily exclusive content or day 1 content (from 3rd parties).

They can make up some of their money by selling their products on PlayStation and Switch.

Yeah, I don’t think that audience exists…

 

[Thirty7ven]

This mentality is flawed and ignores the loads of revenue Microsoft makes off of the Xbox ecosystem. What huge revenue stream are they missing out on?

Everything they move out of their own ecosystem, the margin they make on it drops significantly. For some titles the margin is either so small that they don’t care (like the Quake 2 remaster) and in other situations the pie is so large they can have it both ways (Minecraft, CoD).

Saying they “spent 80 billion” is another example of flawed thinking. They moved one asset of “80 billion” in value and replaced it with another asset worth “80 billion”. The way a business looks at it, is do they see a larger return on one asset sitting doing nothing, or the other asset generating boatloads of revenue?

They sell more than enough hardware to make the money coming in worth hanging on to. People talk as if they sell Virtual Boy numbers or something.

Do you get anything right? Ever?

The margin drops? ABK was more profitable than Xbox. Is revenue next on the list? Why? Isn’t number of players, engagement, the name of the game? Wait that depends on the day of the week.

Only reason MS doesn’t drop Xbox console and their fanboys tomorrow is because they would lose 25 million GP subscribers which they can’t move over to anywhere else. That’s it. As soon as they decide on the day and their games are all multiplatform they will just turn Xbox into a niche product that is basically a PC that also runs your Xbox digital library.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

??? It is MS itself that predicts these figures (54-58 million in the leaked docs of 2023). The difference with XBO is too small to draw conclusions about what the final figures will be.

Then, 30 millions maximum?? . Are you saying that in the next 4 years XSeries is only going to sell ~5 millions more?? ~ 1 million per year?? That's what it has sold so far this year alone.

What logical forecast does it include that with more accessible console prices and offers, with a catalog where the arrival of games from its 50+ studios will begin to be noticed, ABK games in Gpass, GTA VI.... XSeries will sell less than 1/5 of what it sells today???

Anyway, I'm certainly not going to bother arguing with you. With these forecasts is when I understand that you are expecting the disappearance of Xbox consoles in a few months

Yeah, guess what... Microsoft is wrong...

Where did you get 30 million maximum? What part of a 30-45 million range did you not understand?

First you're assuming that XBS is even at 25 million now, last we saw it was probably around 21 million and certainly based on the sales we've seen since it wouldn't have reached 25 million. Next year will be even worse for the XBS.

 

[Lillie]

If you're already on PC the solution is simple - stop buying 3rd party games on console. There's really no need to unless there are chronic performance issues on PC and you want to play the game before either the developer or community fix them.

clear, but i'm referring to my existing games. Even if MS allowed a transfer to a windows store edition would be great (not all games obviously are "play-anywhere")

 

[GHG]

clear, but i'm referring to my existing games. Even if MS allowed a transfer to a windows store edition would be great (not all games obviously are "play-anywhere")

The issue you will run into is the fact that the vast majority of PC and 3rd party games aren't on the windows store.

Most publishers do not and will not entertain the idea of "play anywhere" either, so the licenses that you own are non-transferable, it will be set out in the EULA.

The unfortunate truth is that there's nothing you can do and there's nothing that they can do for you should it get to that stage.

 

[Humdinger]

It’s hard to tell what MS’s plans are. One option that may or may not work out for them is to remove all other means of purchasing their titles except through a GamePass sub, so nobody anywhere can purchase COD, Diablo etc, only rent.

Boy, that would suck. You wouldn't be able to buy and own a copy of Elder Scrolls VI, for instance. You'd have to just perpetually rent it. I hope they don't do that.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Do you get anything right? Ever?

The margin drops? ABK was more profitable than Xbox. Is revenue next on the list? Why? Isn’t number of players, engagement, the name of the game? Wait that depends on the day of the week.

Only reason MS doesn’t drop Xbox console and their fanboys tomorrow is because they would lose 25 million GP subscribers which they can’t move over to anywhere else. That’s it. As soon as they decide on the day and their games are all multiplatform they will just turn Xbox into a niche product that is basically a PC that also runs your Xbox digital library.

Ignoring your typical Xbox FUD, I really hope the “MS is abandoning Xbox hardware” script pans out for you guys this time. One of these years you’ll finally maybe probably be right.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Xbox live did a good job and had the execution while “Game Pass” is clunky.

 

[Jimmy_liv]

Playstation will absolutely not allow that to happen. End of story.

But why...then we truly wouldn't need a MS machine of any description.

I'd just buy a playstation next time around.

 

[RaySoft]

Playstation will absolutely not allow that to happen. End of story.

At this rate, Playstation would only have first party games left if they don't. 'Cause MS will probably just acquire everyone else

 

[Rat Rage]

"It's a bit of a change of strategy," Microsoft admits.

*cough*Dreamcast*cough

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Boy, that would suck. You wouldn't be able to buy and own a copy of Elder Scrolls VI, for instance. You'd have to just perpetually rent it. I hope they don't do that.

I mean that's literally what they want, the whole principle of Everything as a Service is based on You Will Own Nothing and Be Happy.

This is the reason why you can no longer buy a copy of Adobe Photoshop, you must rent it in perpetuity. Same with Microsoft Office 365, they don't want you to buy Office, they want you to rent it for the rest of your natural lifetime (and all your descendants too). The entire Gamepass model is based on Netflix, where you own nothing but pay a monthly fee to watch for the rest of your life, and that is their ultimate goal with it. Once they own all of gaming they can rent it out to you and force you to pay if you want to play anything, although they ran into the pesky government regulators trying to acquire Activision Blizzard and only barely scraped that one over the finish line. Any further acquisitions would be very, very hard to get past regulators which will make it very hard to implement their plan with Gamepass.

 

[bitbydeath]

Ignoring your typical Xbox FUD, I really hope the “MS is abandoning Xbox hardware” script pans out for you guys this time. One of these years you’ll finally maybe probably be right.

I mean, you could easily put your head in the sand when it was just rumours, but now getting the message directly from Microsoft, even you have to admit that does not bode well. This isn’t even their first comments on making massive changes to Xbox this year. (Potentially leaving gaming entirely, according to Phil.)

And yes, they would set the record straight instead of doubling down if changes weren’t coming.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

I mean, you could easily put your head in the sand when it was just rumours, but now getting the message directly from Microsoft, even you have to admit that does not bode well. This isn’t even their first comments on making massive changes to Xbox this year. (Potentially leaving gaming entirely, according to Phil.)

And yes, they would set the record straight instead of doubling down if changes weren’t coming.

When did MS announce they are ditching hardware? I must have missed it.

Like I said, it’s been predicted for damn near twenty years now. I hope those predicting it get a win sometime, finally.

 

[adamsapple]

Ignoring your typical Xbox FUD, I really hope the “MS is abandoning Xbox hardware” script pans out for you guys this time. One of these years you’ll finally maybe probably be right.

Many users cite the leaks when needing to talk about the "adorably all digital" thing, but ignore that the same leaks also highlight their projected plan for next-gen consoles in 2027-2028.

 

[bitbydeath]

When did MS announce they are ditching hardware? I must have missed it.

Like I said, it’s been predicted for damn near twenty years now. I hope those predicting it get a win sometime, finally.

June this year, they were in court at the time so it could be another Phil lie.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

My cat wants to be a pocket Lion by the way.

 

[Lillie]

The issue you will run into is the fact that the vast majority of PC and 3rd party games aren't on the windows store.

Most publishers do not and will not entertain the idea of "play anywhere" either, so the licenses that you own are non-transferable, it will be set out in the EULA.

The unfortunate truth is that there's nothing you can do and there's nothing that they can do for you should it get to that stage.

Yeah i regret it - should have went PC always

 

[jroc74]

??? It is MS itself that predicts these figures (54-58 million in the leaked docs of 2023). The difference with XBO is too small to draw conclusions about what the final figures will be.

Then, 30 millions maximum?? . Are you saying that in the next 4 years XSeries is only going to sell ~5 millions more?? ~ 1 million per year?? That's what it has sold so far this year alone.

What logical forecast does it include that with more accessible console prices and offers, with a catalog where the arrival of games from its 50+ studios will begin to be noticed, ABK games in Gpass, GTA VI.... XSeries will sell less than 1/5 of what it sells today???

Anyway, I'm certainly not going to bother arguing with you. With these forecasts is when I understand that you are expecting the disappearance of Xbox consoles in a few months

Here's another thing to think about....if MS starts their next gen much sooner, Series console sales will absolutely suffer.

That could also mean Series consoles get discontinued sooner than expected.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

June this year, they were in court at the time so it could be another Phil lie.

Oh, Phil announced in court that Xbox hardware is going away? Wow. Wonder why no one reported on it.

 

[Flash Junkins]

As an XBox guy from day one, even I have to admit it's over.

 

[Jesb]

I think the long term plan at this point will be shifted to just becoming the game pass company. Their gonna acquire as much companies as they can as part of that process. Eventually they’d own so many companies that you’re not gonna play those games on a Sony device which may force Sony’s hand and allow gamepass on their device. Xbox should be done if Microsoft was smart.

 

[bitbydeath]

Oh, Phil announced in court that Xbox hardware is going away? Wow. Wonder why no one reported on it.

There was a HUGE thread here on it.
It’s only if GamePass doesn’t meet the numbers they need, and it wasn’t just leaving hardware but gaming as a whole.

Edit: Here’s the link

Xbox plans to exit gaming business if "off-console" Game Pass subscribers don't increase enough by 2027

Source: https://wccftech.com/microsoft-may-exit-gaming-business-if-game-pass-subscribers-off-console-dont-increase-enough-by-2027/ Get your juice boxes ready for a bumpy thread! Microsoft Gaming CEO Phil Spencer made some remarkable statements on a potential exit from the gaming business. The...

www.neogaf.com

 

[//DEVIL//]

The only way MS will have its games on PS, Nintendo, Apple, is by releasing the game stand alone so they can get a cut of the game.

Game pass as a service undermine all the games on that specific store if it can be played for free in game pass.

Not a single store with any lick of a brain will allow that to happen unless they want to die and can't find a way to kill them selves.