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[Osaka_Boss]

Lol

 

[ChoosableOne]

 

[Mibu no ookami]

And yet if one day MS become 1st console seller they'll instantly go back to reveal consoles sales numbers.
They stopped in 2015, when Gamepass didn't even existed.

Microsoft will never be #1 in consoles. I think most in the industry recognize that we're heading towards a future without consoles. We have one maybe two more generations of consoles left.

Microsoft wants to position itself in a lead position for the future, which is largely platform agnostic.

They're taking public Ls by comparing themselves to Sony. They'd rather be compared to GeforceNow and Luna. I believe in the next 2 years we'll see a winding down of Xbox as a hardware platform. I think the biggest problem is xCloud isn't ready for prime time from what I've heard.

 

[Bernoulli]

So then what is the reason why they stopped giving out GP subscription numbers?

But they are giving games downloads for most games

 

[Thirty7ven]

Stopped reporting software sales, hardware sales, gamepass subscribers, and now it’s just that smell my engagement finger left.

It’s pretty much the reason why they will take their games to PlayStation and Nintendo because otherwise they will stop reporting engagement numbers too.

 

[64bitmodels]

THE COPE IS REACHING UNPRECEDENTED LEVELS

 

[lh032]

i mean they are going to prioritize on engagement? not surprising.

 

[graywolf323]

And yet if one day MS become 1st console seller they'll instantly go back to reveal consoles sales numbers.
They stopped in 2015, when Gamepass didn't even existed.

IIRC didn’t Nadella brag that they had outsold PS5 in America for 3 straight quarters or something like that back in 2021? they didn’t release numbers but they were very happy to mention that they were higher than their rival at that time

edit: found the thread here on GAF about it, ends up it was back in 2022, things have really changed since then

Microsoft CEO: Xbox Series X|S Has Outsold PS5 in NA for 3 Qtrs in a Row. Sales tracking ahead of 360.

https://www.vgchartz.com/article/454407/microsoft-ceo-xbox-series-xs-has-outsold-the-ps5-in-north-america-for-3-quarters-in-a-row/ Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella in an earnings call with investors has stated the Xbox Series X|S continues to be the fastest-selling Xbox generation as it is tracking...

www.neogaf.com

 

[Nvzman]

Microsoft will never be #1 in consoles. I think most in the industry recognize that we're heading towards a future without consoles. We have one maybe two more generations of consoles left.

Microsoft wants to position itself in a lead position for the future, which is largely platform agnostic.

They're taking public Ls by comparing themselves to Sony. They'd rather be compared to GeforceNow and Luna. I believe in the next 2 years we'll see a winding down of Xbox as a hardware platform. I think the biggest problem is xCloud isn't ready for prime time from what I've heard.

There is absolutely nothing that even remotely indicates this, the Switch and PS4/PS5's success alone proves the exact opposite.
Consoles are a value bargain for what you get and brain-dead simple to use as opposed to PC gaming and streaming bullshit (that is still not catching on really).

Microsoft just has genuinely fucked up for two gens straight. They have zero games worth playing aside from the Forza Horizon games and thats pathetic. At the end of the day, no matter what people say, the real strength of these consoles are the games. Why does Game Pass even matter if all the games they offer are games you could have snagged for $5-$10 on sale years ago? I'd say the exclusives day one would matter if it wasnt for the fact that nearly all of them have been total messes not really worth playing (Forza Motorsport is straight up bad, Halo Infinite was a complete mess, Starfield was extremely boring, etc).

Meanwhile, Sony and Nintendo are absolutely killing it still charging $60/$70 a game AND with their online subscriptions because they actually have libraries worth giving a shit about.

Its about the games, nothing else, and Microsoft hasn't released anything must-play since Halo Reach came out in like 2010. Their internal shift towards kinect completely fucked them and they've never recovered since, they lost all the talent.

 

[Moriarty1889]

Oh the many different spins from MS over the years……..engagement numbers, MAU, how many miles driven in Forza Horizon, How many headshots fired in Halo……..the list goes on and on. Now it’s CONTENT SERVICES. However, they wont be honest and just admit the amount of console sales they have made. A trillion dollar company to scared to be honest in terms of units sold of their console brand.

 

[Alebrije]

Translation :"It just works"

 

[Cert.in.Death]

Is that also why they lumped Xbox into their patent licensing revenues for financial reporting?

 

[Bond007]

And if they were leading they would let us know right away

 

[Ashler]

This reminds me the times when Phil considered exclusives bad for everyone. Then he bought a bunch of studios and exclusives are pretty good.

 

[Mowcno]

There is absolutely nothing that even remotely indicates this, the Switch and PS4/PS5's success alone proves the exact opposite.
Consoles are a value bargain for what you get and brain-dead simple to use as opposed to PC gaming and streaming bullshit (that is still not catching on really).

I wouldn't bet money on console gaming still being a major part of the industry after two more generations. That might not be until around 2042. A lot can change in almost 20 years... heck it wasn't till around 25 years ago internet access even became widespread, 15 years since smart phones. The world can change drastically in 20 years.

 

[Nvzman]

I wouldn't bet money on console gaming still being a major part of the industry after two more generations. That might not be until around 2042. A lot can change in almost 20 years... heck it wasn't till around 25 years ago internet access even became widespread, 15 years since smart phones. The world can change drastically in 20 years.

Consoles have been around since the late 1970s, and it survived cartridges being $150 a pop for 10 minutes of entertainment. Its fairly certain that consoles will be around for a long time given they make vastly more money now than they ever have.

 

[Humdinger]

Because it wouldn't look good. It's all about that public image. Trouble is, when you hide the numbers, it makes you look deceptive, and people imagine the worst.

 

[Schmendrick]

Inventing bogus KPIs that sound good because the standard data paints a bad picture is a classic PR move. Nothing new, just a new level of "we think our customers are stupid enough to believe this crap"

 

[ResilientBanana]

MS with Starfield, Redfall, and Forza still managed to disappoint the hell out of me in 2023. Why is Phil Spencer still in charge over there? What the hell is going on with Halo btw? Not even going to try to fix that franchise? How about a plan to add some much needed content to Infinite's campaign, which was one of the lamest open world games imaginable. Not even trying to reinvigorate Halo's multiplayer? Just gonna let the greatest Xbox franchise die?

Halo's Multiplayer is great, especially with the latest seasons. As for the rest of that, Phil doesn't run the studios, each of the studios managers do. When games miss sales predictions heads roll.

 

[LordCBH]

It’s because they’re getting absolutely destroyed by their competitors. If they were selling gangbusters, they’d absolutely be yelling those numbers every chance they get.

 

[semiconscious]

There is absolutely nothing that even remotely indicates this, the Switch and PS4/PS5's success alone proves the exact opposite.
Consoles are a value bargain for what you get and brain-dead simple to use as opposed to PC gaming and streaming bullshit (that is still not catching on really).

Microsoft just has genuinely fucked up for two gens straight. They have zero games worth playing aside from the Forza Horizon games and thats pathetic. At the end of the day, no matter what people say, the real strength of these consoles are the games. Why does Game Pass even matter if all the games they offer are games you could have snagged for $5-$10 on sale years ago? I'd say the exclusives day one would matter if it wasnt for the fact that nearly all of them have been total messes not really worth playing (Forza Motorsport is straight up bad, Halo Infinite was a complete mess, Starfield was extremely boring, etc).

Meanwhile, Sony and Nintendo are absolutely killing it still charging $60/$70 a game AND with their online subscriptions because they actually have libraries worth giving a shit about.

Its about the games, nothing else, and Microsoft hasn't released anything must-play since Halo Reach came out in like 2010. Their internal shift towards kinect completely fucked them and they've never recovered since, they lost all the talent.

well said. xbox dead does not equal consoles dead...

things never had to turn out this way for xbox, but they have. & most of the damage has been completely self-inflicted...

 

[DeepEnigma]

Somebody has to be third. That doesn’t mean it isn’t profitable.
Toyota outsells Mitsubishi by a shitload but both profit.
Not releasing figures doesn’t equal not making profit.

Not everything is doom and gloom and Microsoft will never beat Nintendo or Sony unless they both do something very wrong.

It's their bullshit excuses and political metrics we make fun of.

This is what happens when you desperately try to spin things in Microsoft's favour but don't realise the parallels are identical:

Apple will no longer reveal how many iPhones, iPads, and Macs it sells

During its Q4 earnings call, Apple’s Chief Financial Officer Luca Maestri announced that the company will no longer report unit sales of its main hardware divisions, including iPhone, iPad, and Mac.

www.theverge.com

The moment android devices started eating their lunch they stopped reporting iPhone sales figures.

It's about public perception since most can understand simple numbers and equate that to how popular things are.

 

[Alan Wake]

Xbox as a brand has already lost its billing even within MS, its now just 1 department (it was 2 when they first rebranded) of 7 of Microsoft Gaming.

I think it's only the most blinkered of xbox fanboy that thinks they can turn this around and beat Sony and Nintendo.

It's pretty clear they are done with 3rd place and losing billions every generation. Soon there will be no xbox console and ms's games will appear on every device as 3rd party content.

This is the sad truth.

 

[Saber]

"I don't care if we're losing at every metric, in my heart I believe it's sucessfull. Objectivelly is not and sure we're doing nothing but release garbage content and lose billions for absolute nothing, but still I want to believe Xbox is a sucess. And we can only achieve this by using a different, meanless metrics nobody cares about."

 

[LakeOf9]

To be fair, Xbox is a tiny insignificant aspect of Microsoft. While PlayStation is a decent chunk of Sony. And finally Nintendo is just gaming and nothing else.

It is arguable that Xbox living or dying doesn't matter to Microsoft shareholders. So they have the excuse of not getting into details. Sony fudge numbers when they want to during PS3 era but PlayStation is too big to hide sometimes.

As for Nintendo... They report hardware sales every year without fail. Because that is what they do and there is nowhere to hide. When WiiU crashed, it crashed and Nintendo admit to it.

This is true, but now that Microsoft made a $70 billion acquisition for ActiBlizz (their biggest in history), you can bet Xbox will be squarely in the spotlight for shareholders and investors in the years going forward. They better be able to point to growth on some metrics convincingly, or you will have shareholders asking MS why they are wasting money on hardware pretty soon.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

There is absolutely nothing that even remotely indicates this, the Switch and PS4/PS5's success alone proves the exact opposite.
Consoles are a value bargain for what you get and brain-dead simple to use as opposed to PC gaming and streaming bullshit (that is still not catching on really).

Microsoft just has genuinely fucked up for two gens straight. They have zero games worth playing aside from the Forza Horizon games and thats pathetic. At the end of the day, no matter what people say, the real strength of these consoles are the games. Why does Game Pass even matter if all the games they offer are games you could have snagged for $5-$10 on sale years ago? I'd say the exclusives day one would matter if it wasnt for the fact that nearly all of them have been total messes not really worth playing (Forza Motorsport is straight up bad, Halo Infinite was a complete mess, Starfield was extremely boring, etc).

Meanwhile, Sony and Nintendo are absolutely killing it still charging $60/$70 a game AND with their online subscriptions because they actually have libraries worth giving a shit about.

Its about the games, nothing else, and Microsoft hasn't released anything must-play since Halo Reach came out in like 2010. Their internal shift towards kinect completely fucked them and they've never recovered since, they lost all the talent.

They have Pentiment. Duh.


Day 1 AAA Gamepass was their biggest blunder. They will never be able to sustain that.

 

[SHA]

But if they were winning the numbers would be everywhere.

Nope, it would be a threat, it's a different story.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

Bullshit, as usual, if they were good, they would be the first to BRAG it as hell.

But, right now, there is nothing to brag, isn't it Phil ?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

There is absolutely nothing that even remotely indicates this, the Switch and PS4/PS5's success alone proves the exact opposite.
Consoles are a value bargain for what you get and brain-dead simple to use as opposed to PC gaming and streaming bullshit (that is still not catching on really).

Microsoft just has genuinely fucked up for two gens straight. They have zero games worth playing aside from the Forza Horizon games and thats pathetic. At the end of the day, no matter what people say, the real strength of these consoles are the games. Why does Game Pass even matter if all the games they offer are games you could have snagged for $5-$10 on sale years ago? I'd say the exclusives day one would matter if it wasnt for the fact that nearly all of them have been total messes not really worth playing (Forza Motorsport is straight up bad, Halo Infinite was a complete mess, Starfield was extremely boring, etc).

Meanwhile, Sony and Nintendo are absolutely killing it still charging $60/$70 a game AND with their online subscriptions because they actually have libraries worth giving a shit about.

Its about the games, nothing else, and Microsoft hasn't released anything must-play since Halo Reach came out in like 2010. Their internal shift towards kinect completely fucked them and they've never recovered since, they lost all the talent.

Console sales have hit a ceiling and the technological jump between consoles is diminishing greatly. In 17 years, we're not going to have jumps in graphics that push people to buy consoles and the streaming tech will be there well within that timeframe.

Consoles are a bargain compared to PC, but a free app on your TV that just requires a controller? That's 70 dollars vs 500 dollars. That's a bargain...

It won't be too long until Sony is bundling Dual Sense controllers with their TVs and a free 3 months of PS+ to encourage people to play PS+ Cloud streaming.

Handhelds may persist, but consoles are going away for sure. Just as cable tv has been supplanted by streaming and cable boxes and dvd/bluray players are going away, consoles will too.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Xbox is inside the air you breathe and the water you drink.
We own you.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Console sales have hit a ceiling and the technological jump between consoles is diminishing greatly. In 17 years, we're not going to have jumps in graphics that push people to buy consoles and the streaming tech will be there well within that timeframe.

Consoles are a bargain compared to PC, but a free app on your TV that just requires a controller? That's 70 dollars vs 500 dollars. That's a bargain...

It won't be too long until Sony is bundling Dual Sense controllers with their TVs and a free 3 months of PS+ to encourage people to play PS+ Cloud streaming.

Handhelds may persist, but consoles are going away for sure. Just as cable tv has been supplanted by streaming and cable boxes and dvd/bluray players are going away, consoles will too.

console will exists as long as they justify their existence. Companies want those "high-value" customers.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

console will exists as long as they justify their existence. Companies want those "high-value" customers.

You can still get them without consoles.

The future exists where you really don't need to port games anymore. You just make them once and they're available on the publishers' streaming platform.

Less development cost and no more split with a platform holder.

 

[FunkMiller]

But if they were winning the numbers would be everywhere.

Beginning and end of conversation.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Come on guys, I think this is admirable. They don’t want the excellent Xbox Series sales numbers to distract from the other, more important successes of the Xbox brand.

 

[Nvzman]

Console sales have hit a ceiling and the technological jump between consoles is diminishing greatly. In 17 years, we're not going to have jumps in graphics that push people to buy consoles and the streaming tech will be there well within that timeframe.

Consoles are a bargain compared to PC, but a free app on your TV that just requires a controller? That's 70 dollars vs 500 dollars. That's a bargain...

It won't be too long until Sony is bundling Dual Sense controllers with their TVs and a free 3 months of PS+ to encourage people to play PS+ Cloud streaming.

Handhelds may persist, but consoles are going away for sure. Just as cable tv has been supplanted by streaming and cable boxes and dvd/bluray players are going away, consoles will too.

The fact that Stadia is dead and Luna is on life support makes this largely unlikely. You need wired Internet for cloud gaming to be remotely enjoyable, and until we basically find a way to defy the laws of physics it will never match input latency of natively playing on a console, which already makes it undesirable to the shooter crowd (aka Call of Duty).

 

[Calverz]

Exactly.

And as if PlayStation does not have a subscription service (Game Pass / PS Plus), doesn't publish games on rival consoles (Minecraft / MLB & Destiny 2), or doesn't publish games on PC (Starfield / God of War etc.)

Can you subscribe to PS plus on pc?

 

[Tams]

Reminds me of when I was single.

People would ask if I've gone on any dates recently, I would say, no, no, it's about content and services.

Hookers and blow ain't cheap, but they sure are cheaper than a wife!

 

[3liteDragon]

 

[Gavon West]

I'm wondering how long Phil can keep up this charade that his division is somehow in a healthy state when it's getting it's ass kicked left right and center

Totally mad that a lot of you "enthusiast gamers" fail to realize that consoles are not the end all be all metric. Like, has it still not sunk in that Xbox doesn't depend on console sales exclusively to turn a profit? The brand is much bigger than that now. The traditional business model is ages old. They may be 3rd in console sales but revenue is way up.

 

[Skifi28]

revenue is way up.

What about expenses?

 

[0neAnd0nly]

“Football team reveals why they no longer share their score - as coach says ‘the score doesn’t always tell the whole story’”

Basically MS.

 

[havoc00]

Totally mad that a lot of you "enthusiast gamers" fail to realize that consoles are not the end all be all metric. Like, has it still not sunk in that Xbox doesn't depend on console sales exclusively to turn a profit? The brand is much bigger than that now. The traditional business model is ages old. They may be 3rd in console sales but revenue is way up.

While the console sales numbers aren’t good people are acting like ms is making Pennies compared to the competition when in fact the revenue is up

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

You can still get them without consoles.

The future exists where you really don't need to port games anymore. You just make them once and they're available on the publishers' streaming platform.

Less development cost and no more split with a platform holder.

Nop. This is not how it works.

If we are pragmatic. none of us NEED entertainment art to live. But we live mundane lives; so we seek escapism. The quality/reach of this "escapism" is achieved- depends on the "business model". Which entails, "selling that shit" aka Marketing.

Logically speaking, we could argue that making the "minimum valuable product/service" and reaching the maximum amount of customers has to be the goal of any product and service. Right?.
Then, why products, services as well as entertainment-art are marketed to different kinds of people, with different socio-economic-ideology-values status etcetera?.
When you listen to that MS executive (tim stuart) you realize that he doesn't have any fucking idea about the idiosyncrasies of the platforms in which videogames exists/ are played.
Putting Everything Everywhere All at Once  does not equated to exponential growth, engagement or success.

there is a reason why consoles games tend to have the biggest production value in the entire industry.

 

[Banjo64]

God is on our side brothers.

Glory to the saviour.

The destruction of our enemies is at hand.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Nop. This is not how it works.

If we are pragmatic. none of us NEED entertainment art to live. But we live mundane lives; so we seek escapism. The quality/reach of this "escapism" is achieved- depends on the "business model". Which entails, "selling that shit" aka Marketing.

Logically speaking, we could argue that making the "minimum valuable product/service" and reaching the maximum amount of customers has to be the goal of any product and service. Right?.
Then, why products, services as well as entertainment-art are marketed to different kinds of people, with different socio-economic-ideology-values status etcetera?.
When you listen to that MS executive (tim stuart) you realize that he doesn't have any fucking idea about the idiosyncrasies of the platforms in which videogames exists/ are played.
Putting Everything Everywhere All at Once  does not equated to exponential growth, engagement or success.

there is a reason why consoles games tend to have the biggest production value in the entire industry.

Not sure how this is a response to what I said.

Publishers will be able to deliver what they deliver now, with significantly less cost and significantly higher return by escaping the confines of consoles.

Gaming will grow tremendously when there is simply an EA App, Ubi-Soft App, Square Enix App on your tv and you can buy or subscribe to any game from any tv, tablet, phone, or computer.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

God is on our side brothers.

Glory to the saviour.

The destruction of our enemies is at hand.

Everybody knows all the best game systems are affiliated with satan

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The fact that Stadia is dead and Luna is on life support makes this largely unlikely. You need wired Internet for cloud gaming to be remotely enjoyable, and until we basically find a way to defy the laws of physics it will never match input latency of natively playing on a console, which already makes it undesirable to the shooter crowd (aka Call of Duty).

I've tried GeforceNow and it's absolutely workable. Within 17 years, the cominbation of wifi based controllers, this will absolutely be the reality.

 

[mckmas8808]

Ok so then release the sales numbers alongside the other metrics.

Exactly!

 

[GHG]

Personification of inanimate objects will never not be funny.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Not sure how this is a response to what I said.

Publishers will be able to deliver what they deliver now, with significantly less cost and significantly higher return by escaping the confines of consoles.

Gaming will grow tremendously when there is simply an EA App, Ubi-Soft App, Square Enix App on your tv and you can buy or subscribe to any game from any tv, tablet, phone, or computer.

You are speaking like streaming is magic.

Streaming is just rental services. The hardware is just in another building. That doesn't remove hardware, it just put it further away from you. There is no benefit to taking the hardware away from your house when it is cheaper and faster to have it in the same room as you. Streaming doesn't make the hardware disappear; it just make it more expensive and worse than local equipment.

Imagine instead of a meal being delivered to your house, we have the food made in a building in the neighborhood and send bite site servings of food one mouthful at a time to your home separately. And charge you by the mouthful. Does it even make sense?