Support NeoGAF

[Rockondevil]

Somebody has to be third. That doesn’t mean it isn’t profitable.
Toyota outsells Mitsubishi by a shitload but both profit.
Not releasing figures doesn’t equal not making profit.

Not everything is doom and gloom and Microsoft will never beat Nintendo or Sony unless they both do something very wrong.

 

[GHG]

Apple doesnt disclose unit sales of their product lines. And they dont state profits by product line either. All they do is state gross sales per product line, while profits and margin are lumped together into giant vague buckets where nobody except Apple employees know how profitable Phones, Macs and Watches are. And unit sales and shipments you hear are from market research companies estimating what they think is Apple's real shipment numbers.

You'd think Apple being the biggest company in the world raking in the money would tell the world how many units they sell and how profitable each Phone, Mac and Watch are. They dont.

This is what happens when you desperately try to spin things in Microsoft's favour but don't realise the parallels are identical:

During its Q4 earnings call, Apple’s chief financial officer Luca Maestri announced that the company will no longer report unit sales of its main hardware divisions, including iPhone, iPad, and Mac. This is the same as protocols Apple already follows for its smaller devices, such as the Apple Watch, AirPods, and HomePod, which are bundled under the “Other Products” category.

The announcement comes after iPhone unit sales percentage was unchanged year over year, despite a revenue bump of 29 percent.

Apple will no longer reveal how many iPhones, iPads, and Macs it sells

During its Q4 earnings call, Apple’s Chief Financial Officer Luca Maestri announced that the company will no longer report unit sales of its main hardware divisions, including iPhone, iPad, and Mac.

www.theverge.com

The moment android devices started eating their lunch they stopped reporting iPhone sales figures.

 

[Mephisto40]

I'm wondering how long Phil can keep up this charade that his division is somehow in a healthy state when it's getting it's ass kicked left right and center

 

[havoc00]

So then what is the reason why they stopped giving out GP subscription numbers?

[UPD] Game Pass has over 30 million subscribers, according to Xbox’s senior marketing director | Game World Observer

It has been a while since Microsoft officially shared the number of Game Pass subscribers. So we can only rely on indirect data to assess whether the service is growing.

gameworldobserver.com

 

[clarky]

MS with Starfield, Redfall, and Forza still managed to disappoint the hell out of me in 2023. Why is Phil Spencer still in charge over there? What the hell is going on with Halo btw? Not even going to try to fix that franchise? How about a plan to add some much needed content to Infinite's campaign, which was one of the lamest open world games imaginable. Not even trying to reinvigorate Halo's multiplayer? Just gonna let the greatest Xbox franchise die?

Yeah can't disagree with this by enlarge. Although i enjoyed Starfield personally i can see why some were disappointed. Forza and Redfall are a straight up embarrassment to gaming (on PC at least). Releases like these are why the brand is suffering its that simple.

Although i disagree on the Halo infinite point, that's the best it ever been by quite some margin. I'm sure i read somewhere that the next Halo game will come from Certain Affinity, with 343 in support. Which is what every man and his dog has been asking for, interested to see how that turns out.

 

[twilo99]

dont need to report sales number if they got no sales

I hear they are actually giving them away for free and no one wants them because they can’t play spider man on it

 

[StealthGoblin]

'....because we've had to shift the goalposts to a metric that is intangible and difficult to understand in a wider context'

 

[Yoboman]

Console sales numbers and profit = bad reflection of healthy ecosystem
Number of potatoes collected in Starfield = good reflection of healthy ecosystem

 

[Esppiral]

I am pretty sure I read this a looong time ago, why posting it again?

Anyway if they were number one sales figures would be EVERYWHERE, such a lame excuse

 

[MALpractice311]

Sales figures are not being reported because, as my mother told me, "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Yes, put Call of Duty on all those bored African cellphones...just what the average african needs these days.

I'm sure the Engagements TM is gonna shoot through the roof.

A fun bit of history:

In the last couple years of Windows Phone, with market share dwindling and customer interest at zero, MS talked a big talk about how their real goal was to reach "the next billion users" in Africa and other places where mobile phones still didn't have the penetration they did in the West and Asia where Windows Phone was largely ignored. They would go on to make a very expensive (comparatively speaking) acquisition in buying Nokia's entire phone division to bring phone design and production in-house.

Not long afterwards, Satya took over as CEO from Steve Ballmer. One of his first big corporate decision was to take the entire Windows Phone division (including all of recently acquired Nokia) out back with the shotgun.

Let's see if history repeats itself here.

 

[Heisenberg007]

So then what is the reason why they stopped giving out GP subscription numbers?

 

[Gudji]

 

[buenoblue]

What a load of bullshit. Fire all these cunts and start again.

 

[Elios83]

They don't share them because they're not good and can't be used to create a success story for the company.
Same thing happened with Gamepass numbers and it was later confirmed by themselves that it has been missing growth targets for a few years consecutively.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

But they do when they're good? Jesus Christ this two trillion dollar company couldn't talk out of its ass any more.

 

[FeralEcho]

Ok so then release the sales numbers alongside the other metrics.

Nooooo, can't you understand.... it'll just confuse people.It's too hard for our tiny minds to comprehend them all at once,engagement is all that matters...

How is Phil Spencer still in charge?! Serious question.

 

[N30RYU]

What about review scores of your content then? Or tell us how you wanna be compared with sony and nintendo?

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Microsoft Xbox reports are more engaging puzzles than chests in Alan Wake 2. And with less variables every year. At one point I fully expect them to publish straight equations instead of numbers. Especially when ATVI revenue will eventually drop.

 

[Mowcno]

Bullshit. They weren't even releasing all their games on PC in 2015 when they stopped reporting console sales and gamepass didn't launch till 2017. Console hardware was absolutely one of the best metrics for their success back in 2015.

They stopped reporting sales when it became apparent that the 360/PS3 generation wasn't going to repeat and they didn't want to embarrassingly officially reveal that the Xbox One was performing far worse than the 360 and their competitor was destroying them.

It's simple. They didn't want to make PR saying "sold 50m xbox ones!" While sony at the same time say "sold 118m PS4's" because it makes their failure in the console space and decline from the 360 blatantly apparent. Going from almost 1:1 sales one generation to being outsold 2.5:1 is an embarrassment they didn't want to publicise.

 

[Damigos]

Not revealing sales numbers = we are not doing as well as we hoped

 

[winjer]

 

[consoul]

Somebody has to be third.

Yeah, that's Meta Quest isn't it?

 

[Horseganador]

Stuart said at the summit: "At first it was like, 'What are you doing?' 'You're the Xbox business and you're not giving us console [sales numbers], that doesn't make sense.' But it was really the first point of us saying, no, no, it's about content and services."

Well then, why don't you give information on the number of subscribers to the GP since January 2022, 2 years ago now? And the sale of games? How much has Starfield sold? That too, and Xbox benefits? Nor, if anything could be more hypocritical and cynical, they would be screaming if they had any positive metrics.

 

[Mowcno]

They haven't revealed gamepass subscribers since January 2022. Clearly gamepass "doesn't provide the clearest picture of how the Xbox brand is performing overall."

They also don't reveal profit. Probably because that "doesn't provide the clearest picture of how the Xbox brand is performing overall."

Thanks MS for keeping these misleading metrics hidden!

 

[Insane Metal]

Because engagement

 

[kyussman]

......because they haven't sold any.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Thanks for this. I needed my morning dose of tragic comedy.

 

[Elysium44]

Ok so then release the sales numbers alongside the other metrics.

Can someone who understands the law explain why as a public company Microsoft isn't compelled to do this? Don't shareholders and analysts have a right to know?

 

[Ar¢tos]

I wonder if Sony starts measuring "Engagement" alongside sales and that unique qualitative and often subjective metric starts sounding better for Sony than Xbox, will Xbox start measuring success by random fruit names or cheese types?

"Xbox had a Cheddar month this November, we look forward to December being very Parmesan".

 

[CosmicComet]

Cuz their sales are ass.

MS going third party. Its confirmed.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Can someone who understands the law explain why as a public company Microsoft isn't compelled to do this? Don't shareholders and analysts have a right to know?

To be fair, Xbox is a tiny insignificant aspect of Microsoft. While PlayStation is a decent chunk of Sony. And finally Nintendo is just gaming and nothing else.

It is arguable that Xbox living or dying doesn't matter to Microsoft shareholders. So they have the excuse of not getting into details. Sony fudge numbers when they want to during PS3 era but PlayStation is too big to hide sometimes.

As for Nintendo... They report hardware sales every year without fail. Because that is what they do and there is nowhere to hide. When WiiU crashed, it crashed and Nintendo admit to it.

 

[Elysium44]

To be fair, Xbox is a tiny insignificant aspect of Microsoft. While PlayStation is a decent chunk of Sony. And finally Nintendo is just gaming and nothing else.

It is arguable that Xbox living or dying doesn't matter to Microsoft shareholders. So they have the excuse of not getting into details. Sony fudge numbers when they want to during PS3 era but PlayStation is too big to hide sometimes.

As for Nintendo... They report hardware sales every year without fail. Because that is what they do and there is nowhere to hide. When WiiU crashed, it crashed and Nintendo admit to it.

Is it that tiny? The profits might be but the ABK cost is eye-watering. How much has Xbox cost since its inception and where are the profits to show for it? If I'm a shareholder I would like to know, but the company I part own refuses to tell me - this doesn't seem right.

I'd be thinking: hang on, they're just throwing my money into a bottomless pit. Spencer and co look like amateurs who don't know what they're doing, and they're doing it with other people's money.

 

[Topher]

Geez.....who does this guy think he is kidding?

 

[Roni]

Corporate postmodernism at its best.

 

[damidu]

I'm wondering how long Phil can keep up this charade that his division is somehow in a healthy state when it's getting it's ass kicked left right and center

he just needs to keep up until retirement, (at most another decade) and leave the hot mess on someone else's lap

 

[jroc74]

I wonder if Sony starts measuring "Engagement" alongside sales and that unique qualitative and often subjective metric starts sounding better for Sony than Xbox, will Xbox start measuring success by random fruit names or cheese types?

"Xbox had a Cheddar month this November, we look forward to December being very Parmesan".

This actually happened to an extent.

Sony didn't start reporting on MAU until MS made a big deal about it.

That's the point some are getting at...why not both? Now, at one time IIRC Sony did lump Vita sales in with PS3 and called it PlayStation Family, lol.

Nintendo is really the only one that doesn't try to hide hardware sales.

 

[Gumbie]

 

[Woopah]

Nintendo are amazing in this regard.

Nintendo are by far the most transparent, but that's because gaming is a much bigger proportion of their business than it is for Sony or Microsoft.

 

[DJ12]

It seems like they see the xbox brand as being strong enough to survive without the actual xbox. I don't see it happening, but what do I know?

Xbox as a brand has already lost its billing even within MS, its now just 1 department (it was 2 when they first rebranded) of 7 of Microsoft Gaming.

I think it's only the most blinkered of xbox fanboy that thinks they can turn this around and beat Sony and Nintendo.

It's pretty clear they are done with 3rd place and losing billions every generation. Soon there will be no xbox console and ms's games will appear on every device as 3rd party content.

 

[Interfectum]

Nooooo, can't you understand.... it'll just confuse people.It's too hard for our tiny minds to comprehend them all at once,engagement is all that matters...

How is Phil Spencer still in charge?! Serious question.

Phil: "Starfield has been successful. I've just found out that in November alone, there have been over 5 million instances of loading screens observed."

 

[MisterXDTV]

We know why, their sales suck....

 

[Heisenberg007]

I wonder if Sony starts measuring "Engagement" alongside sales and that unique qualitative and often subjective metric starts sounding better for Sony than Xbox, will Xbox start measuring success by random fruit names or cheese types?

"Xbox had a Cheddar month this November, we look forward to December being very Parmesan".

And certain folks will explain to us why Cheddar and Parmesan are more suitable metrics for today's gaming industry

 

[El Sueño]

You know they don´t care unless they are selling good.

 

[poppabk]

You reveal information either because you have to for shareholders or because you want to use it as advertising.
MS don't need to release anything for shareholders, and the numbers aren't gonna work as advertising.

 

[Pelta88]

So then what is the reason why they stopped giving out GP subscription numbers?

Can someone who understands the law explain why as a public company Microsoft isn't compelled to do this? Don't shareholders and analysts have a right to know?

Post XB1 (around 2014/15) they folded the division into other divisions as a way to hide the numbers. It's a common accounting tactic. At one point, they folded XB into "Windows devices."

 

[SJRB]

"We stopped reporting about console sales numbers because those numbers don't give the full picture," says company that barely sells consoles.

 

[DonF]

The executive said regions like Africa, India, and Southeast Asia are not "console-first" markets, so Microsoft is trying to push streaming and mobile games in those places.

Lol wtf is that logic?

"this poor people...they dont do consoles so they must have high end cellphones and advanced enough infrastructure for streaming, yes!"

 

[Gaelyon]

And yet if one day MS become 1st console seller they'll instantly go back to reveal consoles sales numbers.
They stopped in 2015, when Gamepass didn't even existed.

 

[Nonehxc]

I wonder if Sony starts measuring "Engagement" alongside sales and that unique qualitative and often subjective metric starts sounding better for Sony than Xbox, will Xbox start measuring success by random fruit names or cheese types?

"Xbox had a Cheddar month this November, we look forward to December being very Parmesan".

'Xbox went all Casu Marzu this generation, Mr. Nadella'