It still doesn't matter if they don't look like the gender they identify with, much like it doesn't matter if a biological girl looks boyish or androgynous. To imply someone with opposing genitals would do anything more than make someone else uncomfortable is demeaning. Trans people are not rapists.
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Missouri Teenagers Protest a Transgender Students Use of the Girls Bathroom
- Thread starter Dalek
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It still doesn't matter if they don't look like the gender they identify with, much like it doesn't matter if a biological girl looks boyish or androgynous. To imply someone with opposing genitals would do anything more than make someone else uncomfortable is demeaning. Trans people are not rapists.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Why shouldn't it have no bearing on transgender rights since the person in this scenario is trans and identifies as a girl?
No idea where you're getting this violence angle from. That wasn't on my mind at all.
QueenOfThorns
Member
What is on your mind? That trans girls that don't "pass" to a satisfactory degree shouldn't be allowed to use women's restrooms?
Because that is the way I see it as being fair, and standardized, for populations.
You haven't given any reason why a masculine looking woman using a woman's room is an issue other than "think about it, I'm being super logical right now."
Barack Lesnar
Banned
That's the answer to my question and scenario then. All i wanted to know
John Kowalski
Banned
Then what is your point?
Why is that fair?
There you go again with your disingenuousness.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
A trans girl that looked like a dudebro football player so she didn't conform AT ALL to traditional girl appearances. My question was if she should be allowed in the girl's rest room and locker room and i've come to see the answer to that is a YES. It's a scenario taken to the extreme but it's one I've wondered about. There's definitely people out there that fit such a description.
Ok let me address this violence thing. That wasn't on my mind when thinking about this scenario. What was on my mind is how uncomfortable girls would feel if a biological male that identified as a girl that dressed like a typical dudebro would feel if she was allowed to use the same facilities.
=( your avatar is gone
Why is it inappropriate? This is a unique scenario. The health needs of this student need to be taken into account.
Nealand Liquor
Member
So the other girls have to feel uncomfortable because she doesn't want to change in private?
That sounds less like tolerance and more like forcing your wants on others for no other reason than just to do it. My freedom ends something something...
As I said, tolerance goes both ways.
I don't think anyone mentioned anything about raping except Queen of (can't remember the whole name).
Because you are around people with the same organs as you. An attempt to create the closest thing to "equality in the wild" that is public school in this country.
Should a muscular woman not be able to get into the women's locker room? Of course they should. That should answer your question.
Every other sex characteristic is in conflict with that. Why focus on on characteristic and not the rest?
Oh, it's like that? Okay. Not sure if you are being obtuse for your amusement or you are genuinely unable to see the problem with your statement. Either way, have fun.
How would using a changing room with other peers who have the same organs be harmful for health?
I got self concious and decided to pull it. I'll add one in the future
On a serious note
I hope this can be a learning experience for the youngsters who did this, and not in a violent or ugly way.
Why is this required? This is a unique health care scenario.
Its a changing room.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Yep definitely should be. So why shouldn't a trans girl that looks like that? I get it now. Thanks. No I'm not being condescending. It was a legit question i've had.
Easton Dark
Member
Men confirmed to never pee while sitting.
And?
QueenOfThorns
Member
I'm not sure what you're referring to there.
How is "wanting" to use the girl's locker room (because you're a girl) "forcing your wants" on others? She's a girl. She has as much of a right to be in the girl's locker room as any other girl.
Dude Abides
Banned
Penises have minds of their own. If they're in the presence of uncovered vaginas they just start penetrating willy nilly.
A unique health scenario makes it sound like a disability. It is nothing like that.
She is in the process of reverting to her true identity, and she should be welcome with open arms as soon as she completes that transition, I agree with that 100%. The fact that she has not transitioned at this point in time means she should be accepted by her peers in the locker room that matches her genitalia.
Peeing like the rest of boys implies both standing and sitting. We have stalls and toilets. So... *whistles
Therein lies the tricky part. All primary and secondary sexual characteristics point to this person being male. It's the gender characteristics that are in conflict*. Problem is, none of that stuff is tangible or visible to people standing in locker rooms.
*I don't know if gender characteristics is even a thing. Probably not. Almost certainly not. I'm sure you can see what I'm vaguely getting at though.
Edit: just noticed you said 'sex' and I said 'sexual'. It's too late for me to immediately decide if they're exactly the same thing. I'm going to bed.
I got self concious and decided to pull it. I'll add one in the future
On a serious note
I hope this can be a learning experience for the youngsters who did this, and not in a violent or ugly way.
I liked your pink hair.
But yeah, sex education in the UK pretty much shows that children are already uncomfortable with puberty regardless. This is the same time that the school should also mention about trans issues. Not let the students figure out their own acceptance. We know it isn't instinctual for kids to be comfortable with many aspects of nature, let alone society.
There are no adverse health effects by having to change next to people who share the same reproductive organs as her right now.
QueenOfThorns
Member
Why?
I will take this one since it is the most extreme argument here.
What are you asking is "if a girl is ugly enoght, should she be taken out of the bathroom ?" because I don't see any problem of girls seeing a penis here and there. And most of the time the bathroom is in closed stalls.
If she was a cisgender girl who had severe burnings or some of those medical conditions that you regret to google instantly after googling, would she be allowed to go to the same bathroom as the other girls ? The other girls would be scared of her.
If she had an enlarged clitoris and histruism and some random XXX chromosome thing ... same thing.
About raping or anything, the next girl has exactly the same chances of raping another girl in the bathroom than her. Actualy chances are that she hates her penis and don't even want to take it out or even use it so the chance of a lesbian collegue to rape other girl is actualy bigger
Psychologically damaging and distressing for the trans person. You are intentionally exacerbating a severe mental condition based on nothing but bullshit.
How would that be psychologically damaging if you don't mind me asking?
With open arms when she completes it?
That take literally upwards of 30 grand and wrecks your body for months while you recover.
She NEEDS that just to use a bathroom with less risk of physical danger? That mindset is insanity.
It's a very expensive procedure and takes a lot a time. Some people can't for those reasons.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Are you saying that women bodybuilders shouldn't be allowed to use the women's locker room because they look too masculine? Why is saying someone with a penis is threatening bigoted, but saying someone with a masculine body is threatening isn't.Is this where we get pictures of Buck Angel and ask if you want him in the bathroom with your daughter just because he has a vagina?
Edit: Fuck it., have a free one.
According to your rules, he is in the girls locker room now. Do you think that will make female students comfortable?
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
But it wouldn't be distressing for the girls who see a naked male body in their locker room?
Easton Dark
Member
Both bathrooms have stalls and toilets, though. You can both stand and sit at a toilet. I don't understand your point.
HawksWinStanley
Member
There's also nothing in the OP suggesting she was flaunting the proof of a sex change operation. So how would they know she was an "intact male" unless something was seen?
That was pretty specific phrasing implying that a girl saw something and the article was being PC in its description.
Just how I interpreted it.
ab.aeterno
Member
Since a number of people in here seem woefully ignorant about transgender people and the challenges they face, let me recommend starting with the recent Last Week Tonight segment that relates to this. It's nothing more than a surface level examination but it's short and easily understandable.
If you can't be assed to spend 15 minutes educating yourself before posting further in this thread, you should reconsider posting.
If you can't be assed to spend 15 minutes educating yourself before posting further in this thread, you should reconsider posting.
It's not "no other reason than just to do it" it's not being born into the gender that you identify with and wanting to be accepted by other people.
If the same girls didn't feel comfortable having another cis girl in the locker room for no reason, you'd just say "Tough shit", which is what should have happened here.
And no one is outright mentioning it, but it's always an excuse that's used. "Oh, well if we allow this, then what's stopping another man to pretend that he's a woman just to look at the girls naked?!"
There are no adverse health effects by having to change next to people who don't share the same reproductive organs either.
Because in the basic definition of Gender Dysphoria includes disgust of being identified by your assigned at birth sex. And we are told since we are little that the men's room is men only
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