entremet
Member
Yep. I'm a Yankee fan, but the Yankees want to wash their hands for him giving a ridiculous contract in the first place. MLB should not give the Yankees an out.
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MLB Suspends 12 more for PEDs
- Thread starter alr1ght
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Yep. I'm a Yankee fan, but the Yankees want to wash their hands for him giving a ridiculous contract in the first place. MLB should not give the Yankees an out.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Explain how using steroids is worse than gambling? Explain how Pete Rose being the manager of a team, and at the same time betting on them is not pretty much the worst thing that can happen in a sport short of match fixing?
Let me give you a hypothetical: Pete Rose is the manager of the Reds. He is managing a game in the 7th inning, the score is tied and the opposition has the bases loaded. He has his lights out relief pitcher sitting on the bench, but he has no money riding on this game. However he does have money on tomorrow nights game. So he decides not to play his pitcher in favor of using him tomorrow when he can win a bet. His team then loses because he has to bring in a shittier reliever (lets call him Papelbon) who gives up a grand slam. Essentially he takes a loss because he put his own interests ahead of the teams. How in any fucking planet is that not worse than a player juicing?
Probably, but there is a lot of incentive for some of these players (Cruz, Peralta, Cervelli, Braun at least) to take the suspension now instead of risk losing time next year even if they could win. I don't think that was his point anyway -- all these guys were using and only got caught because someone didn't get paid and went to the press for payback. It highlights the ineffectiveness of the MLB's testing regime
Zombie James
Banned
It blows my mind how this is even a question. One is placing a bet on an outcome, the other is cheating to win.
schwabdizzle
Banned
Man, fuck A-Rod. he does not give a fuck about his image at this point. A greater punishment to him would be for the Yankees to allow them to terminate his contract. Now, that would be fucking funny.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Pete Rose wasn't banned for gambling on baseball, he was banned for gambling while he was a player/coach. Do you not see how fucking dangerous that is for the sport? He wasn't just betting on the outcome, he was betting on the outcome of games that he had control over. If as many players were betting on games as are juicing, baseball would collapse. It's far, far worse. Not even in the same ballpark (no pun intended). Betting is the kind of thing that can cause the MLB to no longer exist.
Betting doesn't influence the outcome of a game. At worst, it leads to the temptation to throw games, which requires complicity on the part of the players or negligence on the part of the owners (or both).
Steroids directly influence the outcome of the game and cause harm to the players.
schwabdizzle
Banned
Why not? Make cheaters pay the price. Hit them where it hurts......in the wallet.
he wasnt just placing bets on the outcome. He was throwing the game, making bogus moves, etc, while being in charge. how is that not worse?
I see you're a Cardinals fan. I just want to say that I applaud your team for not cowtowing to Albert Pujols. I laugh every time I see the Angels lose, Albert on the bench, and the Cardinals win. If only more franchises would do what the Cardinals did.
how do steroids influence the outcome of the game? i still have yet to read a benefit of steroids in baseball.
dont you think if steroids turned everyone into arod and bonds. a lot more people would be doing it?
Ninja Scooter
Member
Betting doesn't affect the outcome? If the guy betting is the fucking manager of one of the teams? Are you kidding? You don't think Rose' decisions about which pitchers to use, which hitters to use, ect...weren't affected by his bets?
evil solrac v3.0
Member
he didn't get "caught" on anything, they did that silly anonymous survey test and got leaked. he copped to it, lots of others didn't. there was no testing deal in place with the Player's association at the time. this is a Bud vendetta.
just because one is worse than the other doesn't make gambling bad.
like Cano.
Long outs turn into homeruns, 90MPH pitches turn into 95MPH pitches, etc.
Steroids turn good players into great players, average players into good players. They're not some magical fairy dust.
vas_a_morir
Banned
Why would you fuck over your own catcher like that, Cards fan?
pujols contract is already worse than arods contract. cardinals look like einstein right now.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Giambi
Pettitte
Clemens
Cervelli
Montero
A-Rod
Rivera
At what point should the teams also hold some responsibility and not be able to constantly claim ignorance?
schwabdizzle
Banned
Yeah they seem to do things the right way by building through the farm system. More and more teams are trying to do what the STL Cardinals and TB Rays are doing building through the farm system.
any respectable team would hold responsibility.
I never said gambling was bad; its horrible for the integrety of the sport. I just feel that PED usage is worse.
There needs to be stiffer penalties for PED usage. First time caught suspended for a season and the second time caught banned for life.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
it's the other way around actually. Steroids do not affect the outcome of any particular game. Jedd Gyorko of the Padres can't, say, take a pill in the bottom of the 6th to gain extra speed or extra power to get a hit or make a catch that he couldn't otherwise.
Gambling on your team (like Rose did) does affect the outcome, see the example that Ninja Scooter gave.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Why?
schwabdizzle
Banned
What are you talking about?
BruiserBear
Banned
I don't give a damn how he got caught. He got caught though, and we know he was cheating. He only copped to it because he thought it would help his image in the long run, and of course even in his "copping to it" he chose to lie that it was only for a few seasons.
It's not a personal vendetta. He was caught once in the past. He confirmed it was true, but swore it was just for a few seasons in Texas. He partnered up to speak to kids about how bad using PEDs was, and tried to show he was Mr Clean going forward.
Now he gets caught again, and worse yet he actually reached out to the people who knew the truth and tried to convince them not to tell MLB the truth about it. So he went above and beyond just using the drugs. He went about creating a fake image, and then even tried to convince others to lie for him when he got caught again. Dude is a fraud.
It's not their fault that the testing can't always keep up with the science of PEDs. Also, the PED doctors know how to cycle a player so he tests cleans as often as possible. Unless they can test these guys weekly there are going to be plenty of people who slip through the cracks.
shinshoryuken
Member
NBA, take note... I doubt though, cause their posted boy LeBron would be the biggest offender..
I'm loving every second of the Angels woes. They wanted to be the West Coast Yankee's, and look where they are now. In the GUTTER.
Rangers fan here. I hope Nellie leaned his lesson and comes back next year clean and wants to play fair. If he pops up failing a test again I hope the Rangers cut his ass immediately.
The Faceless Master
Member
betting doesn't. trying to win money certainly can if you're involved in any capacity at all with one of the teams playing. even the fucking waterboy gambling on his team's game is worse than steroids.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
Yankee stadium right field porch turns long outs into homeruns. and there have been NO STUDIES that say taking any PEDs will guarantee an extra 5MPH on a fastball or an extra 50+ feet on balls hit in the air, etc.
it doesn't matter if it's worse. gambling is gambling. Rose knew what he did and he got suspended for it. he deserved it.
I don't see any good player on that list. Only Nelson Cruz is the suspect late bloomer. Peralta has been a solid player some seasons and has sucked in others.
Unless A-Rod was juicing in his age 20 season I don't think they made them better than he ever was.
I wonder how bad PEDs are in the NHL, we never hear about it... the only drug problem the NHL publicly had lately was the painkiller problem that killed Bogard and a couple other fighters
Sure, these guys have been taking them for years for no reason.
ConfusingJazz
Member
Jesus.
Steroids let your muscles recover quicker. It lets you play more during the season, and lets your work out more during the offseason.
If you don't think bigger muscles increase the speed of your batswing, letting you hit the ball harder and farther, I really don't know what to say.
Yes, you still have to have good hand eye coordination, and all the rest of the bullshit roid sidesteps. However, it will help turn a good player into a great player, and a great player into an elite player. If I was in the minors, and was just not good enough to make the majors, you damn straight I would consider juicing, but I would still be guilty of cheating to make money.
you have proof of all this correct? where is the proof that shows that a steroids helps a player hit a ball, where is the prood that says steroids allows a bat to be at the proper 15 degree angle that allows a ball to get enough loft to get out of the stadium? if steroids does anything, i would say it allows someone to heal up quicker to get back out on the field...but a cortizone shot does that too. and pitchers get those twice a month.
BruiserBear
Banned
We don't need studies when homerun records suddenly start getting smashed at the exact same moment steroids explode in baseball. Shockingly, the moment they start testing no one is hitting 60+ anymore. In fact, few are even hitting 50 a season.
Wendel Clark
Member
They'll use the money to overpay some other elite player. The fact that the MLB is actively trying to help the yankees is clear.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The "guarantee" is the weasel word here. The whole PEDs don't work argument is pretty meritless. They aren't taking steroids for no reason.
I'm sure Bret Boone really was just good enough to get 37 HR and 141 RBI in the twilight of his career after averaging 15 the rest of his career.
Ninja Scooter
Member
The balls were juiced moreso than the players were.
Steroids didn't start with Canseco and McGwire. Olympic athletes and some NFL players had been using them since the 50s and 60s. If you honestly think that it didn't get to the MLB until the late 80s/early 90s you are being naive. The 80s were considered a dead era in terms of HRs and power numbers and guys were probably juicing then too.
AgentChris
Member
They came down with the hamma.
I have more experience when it comes to PEDs. I saw that shit all the time playing in college and our coaches never did shit about it. A lot of the players were pressured into using them because they thought it was an easy way to get more playing time. It's absolutely sickening to me.
What Pete Rose did was horrible, I just feel steroid users need to be punished just has harshly.
BruiserBear
Banned
Oh dear. You're welcome to believe that if you wan't, but I'm not convinced that juiced baseballs were the cause of 60+ homer seasons left and right.
If that were true at all, MLB would still have a great reason to still be using those juiced baseballs today, because we all know people love the long ball.
Ninja Scooter
Member
But which do you think is honestly worse for the sport? PEDs or gambling by players/coaches?
Yep.
Ninja Scooter
Member
No I think some players decided to use steroids to muscle up so that they can hit homeruns (Sosa, Canseco, Big Mac) but that's not the only reason people use PEDs. Just because it was obvious with them doesn't mean it started with them.
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