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MS's Response to Sony's "No AAA Studio Can Match CoD" Statement + Confirms Sony Pays To Blocks Games From Game Pass

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Thanks but I highly highly doubt COD would be on gamepass day one anyways. I mean it's a system seller for both consoles. Not sure why Microsoft would shell out all that change to just drop on gamepass. People buy it by the millions. Would be a huge waste of money.
CoD is so heavy filled with mtx of stupid skins and shit which people buy anyways in an annual game.

Giving access to cod across 25 million players which would maybe buy skins because game is "free anyway" = easy cash.

Paying for an Xbox and pay 10 bucks a month for yearly releases as well as other Microsoft first party games day one wouldn't be a system seller?
 
It's true that Sony used non-gaming resources to break into the industry. But MS isn't being faulted for using outside resources to break into the industry in this discussion. They are being criticized for using them 20 years later to destroy that which they struggle to compete with
Capitalism and competition between industry rivals doesn't work on a timer. Whether Microsoft decides to use their unrivaled money chest today, tomorrow, or 20 years ago, it's their right to use it whenever they want. In fact, you should be happy Microsoft didn't go on this acquisition spree 20 years ago or Sony may not have made it past a PS3.
 

Kokoloko85

Member
Its just another form of a deal, timed exclusivity, fully exclusive, marketing and dlc, paying to get your game on gamepass/ps+ etc. Block games going to the competition is kinda always been around.

MS complaining about games getting blocked on gamepass, while questing to buy the industryand put it on gamepass is kinda funny though
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
99% of these games are old game. And none of them was made from the ground up for the streaming service. None a single one. All of them were made with business model of paying full price upfront. Gamepass still young. How old is gamepass anyway. 3? 4 years?
Let's see what happens when companies sit down and actually release games with the upfront fee in mind.

Game pass is not a streaming service, no game in development in existence right now is being made to be exclusive to any sub service. All games will also need to release on retail or digital storefronts for purchase. Game pass has been out for 4 year, plenty of games that have appeared on the service started development AFTER game pass launched, none of them have been game pass exclusive.

Please stop jesus lol.
 
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Ozriel

M$FT
Do we know for sure, that's how it went down? MS want to offer any evidence of this? MS consently shows 90 games per show that'll be on Gamepass. So which games weren't on GP due to Sony? Does MS really want us to believe that Sony is spending millions of dollars just to keep a game off GP, but NOT put it on PS Now or PS+?

Come On Reaction GIF by GIPHY News

Didn’t they have a list that was redacted?
 

Infamy v1

Member
It's true that Sony used non-gaming resources to break into the industry.
Then nothing else needs to be said. The person that I quoted has his entire argument deflated.

But MS isn't being faulted for using outside resources to break into the industry in this discussion.
Nobody is faulting MS aside from upset Sony fanboys and Sony themselves. Not even the other massive publishers in their statements regarding the ABK deal, many of which who have competitors to CoD (and even say as such). Sony is the outlier and odd one out.
They are being criticized for using them 20 years later to destroy that which they struggle to compete with (at the level they want, since they clearly compete just fine by normal guy metrics). Totally different scenarios.
How will owning CoD destroy PlayStation? The very comments from MS in the OP prove this to be factually incorrect. You expect MS to keep playing by the market leaders rules, a market leader who has been extremely aggresive in burying Xbox last gen and at the start of the current before being caught off guard? Y'all said compete. They are literally doing this. Just like Sony with Bungie for their GaaS ambitions, etc.

As an aside, Sony did not have an easier time breaking in because of the industry size back then. They benefitted from 3 specific things: 1) Sega falling on its face; 2) Nintendo games costing a fortune due to cartridges; and 3) content.

They had an easier time for those things, yew, but look it was much easier to gain marketshare due to how little the gaming market was worth comparatively to now. You might also want to look into how Sony acquired content at such a fast rate. It wasn't some grassroots initiative.

Capatalism, wooohooo!
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
CoD is so heavy filled with mtx of stupid skins and shit which people buy anyways in an annual game.

Giving access to cod across 25 million players which would maybe buy skins because game is "free anyway" = easy cash.

Paying for an Xbox and pay 10 bucks a month for yearly releases as well as other Microsoft first party games day one wouldn't be a system seller?

Pay $100 for each fall for COD vs $15 a month is an easy choice for most people who actually play COD.
 
Seriously. "MS is just being monopolistic" is a funny take when the whole point to Sony's opposition to the acquisition is to get the government to protect their position of market dominance while simultaneously throwing around cash and using their weight as head honcho of console video games to prevent developers from doing business with the competition.

Microsoft are being monopolistic and their desire to continue with M&A well after this deal closes is more evidence of that. Either you're not seeing the truth or you don't want too. The only thing making it look less obvious than it is, is the fact that Meta, Google and others are doing the same. Albeit, nowhere near the same degree.

Let's look at it from this perspective.

Not including the $2.5 billion acquisition of Mojang in 2013, since 2014 Microsoft have acquired Compulsion Games, inXile Entertainment, Ninja Theory, Obsidian Entertainment, Playground Games, Undead Labs, Double Fine Productions, Alpha Dog Games, Arkane Studios, Bethesda Game Studios, id Software, MachineGames, Roundhouse Studios, Tango Gameworks, ZeniMax Online Studios.

This is about to grow to include Activision Shanghai, Beenox, Demonware, Digital Legends Entertainment, High Moon Studios, Infinity Ward, Radical Entertainment, Raven Software, Sledgehammer Games, Solid State Studios, Toys for Bob, Treyarch, all 5 development studios within Blizzard and the 11 studios owned by King.

Then include all their IP rights and publishing rights, their employees after lay offs so that you only look at retained staff and that growth is fucking huge.

Say what you want about Sony's acquisition strategy but before they retaliated to Microsoft snapping up studios, Sony, with the exception of Psygnosis when they were starting PlayStation under Sony Music and needed developers have made relatively few acquisitions. Their effects have never really been felt because with the odd exception such as Insomniac, their games have all been exclusive within the PlayStation eco-system. Acquiring Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch or Bluepoint for example, didn't take huge intellectual properties out of the greater gaming market. They only ever bought one publisher before Bungie and that was Psygnosis in 1993. Sony's acquisitions honestly are meagre in comparison and Microsoft are clearly playing down the importance of a Call of Duty. It's not the first time Sony have gone to great lengths to get a deal and then Microsoft have ended up owning the content. Jokes on you Sony for advertising our products Deathloop and GhostWire Tokyo. Not to mention that Microsoft wouldn't allow cross play on their platform unless Sony agreed to terms that effectively meant PlayStation could be an advertising tool for Microsoft services. The acquisitions that Sony made never really disrupted the market, Nintendo don't even come into the equation.

Honestly if Microsoft acquire Embracer then the market situation will be 100% completely fucked. I genuinely believe the only reason Square sold those companies and IP to Embracer is because they didn't want them to become exclusive to any one platform and they didn't want the parent company to be acquired by a console manufacturer. Embracer have no desire to sell up and they fit their mold perfectly.

Either way it's not a healthy market and it's being dished up by the second. The amount of third party developers has drastically decreased generation by generation due to rising costs of development and acquisitions all round. Honestly I'd rather Microsoft and Sony hadn't made some of their moves up to this day with acquisitions. But, such is life eh?

Complaining to regulators because MS is buying a publisher that will remain multiplatform? I mean its essentially a marketing advantage only if the games are still coming to PlayStation.

In the near future. This is a company policy and it isn't embedded in law. At any time in the future Microsoft can remove their properties from all platforms they so choose. There is no guarantee or legal reason to force them to be multiplatform.

I remember a time not so long ago that people seem to have forgotten when Microsoft was market leader with the XBOX 360 and they made many a douchebag moves and arrogance was the odor of their offices.

There is every possibility that if market dominance is within reach, Microsoft would start to remove all their IP from Sony platforms. This would include Diablo, Doom, Wolfenstein, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Call of Duty, The Elder Scrolls, Fallout, MineCraft and many more. This list is going to continue to grow as Microsoft effectively buy more studios, publishers and properties. Please do not think for a single second that just because they are saying that now, that it won't change in the future.

et it be known for what it is, buying success. XBOX is not a massively profitable venture for Microsoft. In 2021 it was responsible for less than 10% of net profit across the company. They make no money on hardware as shown in the Apple vs Epic case and most likely never have - with the closest being the XBOX 360 era. However Microsoft saw massive amounts of profit lost in the Red Ring of Death battle against early consoles which let to a gigantic surge in R&D costs as well as write offs for anything classed as B.E.R. GamePass drives revenue but not profit and with the money Microsoft are losing on that service and are pumping into it, it's purely to buy success and love for gamers and clearly, it's working.

The last time I remember anyone being this positive about XBOX and Microsoft owning this much mind share in the console market was post 2005, pre 2013. But when you make 60 billion in profit a year, you can afford to lose money. They'll also likely recover the whole acquisition cost of Activision with a year. Also, Microsoft are being very dishonest about this whole situation. I mean you don't pay $70 billion dollars for a company that doesn't make something consumers must have. Equally they're playing down the brand strength and the performance of Call of Duty financially and how important it is in the overall market. Plus with the rapid growth of Microsoft via in-organic strategies, mainly fueled by M&A, I'm majorly surprised that they haven't been reprimanded for monopolisation. I don't think they're accurately reflecting their share of market space within the games industry or just how big it will be after completely absorbing ABK and Bethesda (assuming Bethesda isn't fully integrated).

If MS completes the merger, someone can walk into a store with $250-$300 and go home with a console that'll play next-gen COD right out of the box.

Right now, yes. In the future, probably not.

Honestly, people who think Microsoft are going to keep all this Bethesda/ABK content multiplatform for the rest of time are deluded.
 

SLB1904

Banned
Game pass is not a streaming service, no game in development in existence right now is being made to be exclusive to any sub service. All games will also need to release on retail or digital storefronts for purchase.

Please stop jesus lol.
You know what I mean streaming service. You pay a small fee to have access to a large number of games.no game "right now" that's the damn key sentence "right now" if the subscription takes off I guarantee you no one is prioritising retail my guy. You as well know damn well. This is the simple business direction anyone takes in any industry. Look how online shopping is killing retail. Once you change consumer behavior that's were companies will lean on. In the future no one will invest in full price games when the consumer is consuming games from subscription service. You act like I'm talking about some foreign shit. You can argue that the big guys have to money to release AAA on a subscription service. What about the 3rd parties? Or the indies (not the small investment ones) like cd project red and devs like that that are carrying themselves without being a platform holder?

I bet with anyone here. If the future is subscription you will not consume games the way you are use to.
 

Infamy v1

Member
Corporate lawyer's are arguing with competing corporate lawyerwoo-hoo!
There's no arguing in the OP, just fact-based rubbutal.

99% of these games are old game. And none of them was made from the ground up for the streaming service. None a single one. All of them were made with business model of paying full price upfront. Gamepass still young. How old is gamepass anyway. 3? 4 years?
Let's see what happens when companies sit down and actually release games with the upfront fee in mind.

Do you think 3rd parties will spend 300 mil on a game to get 50mil for MS and Sony?

Lmfao

GAmE pAsS hAs nO AAA GaEmZ

*hilariously gets proven wrong immediately*

GAmE pAsS hAs 99% oLd GaEmZ

*laughed out the room*

Now, the new goalpost. Ladies and gentlemen, presenting... no games have been created from the ground up for a streaming service! Wait...is Game Pass only streaming? Nevermind, Game Pass is only 3 years old! Wait...no...the upfront fee will thwart developers! Just you wait and see...
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
You know what I mean streaming service. You pay a small fee to have access to a large number of games.no game "right now" that's the damn key sentence "right now" if the subscription takes off I guarantee you no one is prioritising retail my guy. You as well know damn well. This is the simple business direction anyone takes in any industry. Look how online shopping is killing retail. Once you change consumer behavior that's were companies will lean on. In the future no one will invest in full price games when the consumer is consuming games from subscription service. You act like I'm talking about some foreign shit. You can argue that the big guys have to money to release AAA on a subscription service. What about the 3rd parties? Or the indies (not the small investment ones) like cd project red and devs like that that are carrying themselves without being a platform holder?

I bet with anyone here. If the future is subscription you will not consume games the way you are use to.
If the future is 80-100% subscrition gaming.

You are not going to get the amount of bangers you do now, not for $10 a month at least.

You will get them small "AAA like" ventures.
 
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Elios83

Member
Both companies are just doing their own interests like they should?

Microsoft couldn't compete with the traditional business model, they want to create a new one where they can win using their financial strength (obviously not coming from the Xbox division) to scoop whole publishers, starving other platforms of key contents and locking people into subscription services where it's easy for them to offer value by absorbing all the losses it takes for multiple years. Once they have reached their goals prices will rise, see Amazon Prime and the others who have been already there.
So yeah it's the usual monopolistic tactics of using financial strength to try to buy victory. Every fool can see the long term plan.
While the Activision Blizzard deal won't take them there because it's essentially just COD, so it's difficult that it will be blocked, their goals are clear and Sony are just trying to point them out.
And of course Sony is complaining while others are not, for others this deal has no impact on their business.
And of course it's not like Sony is a saint either, they'll try to do whatever they can to keep their position as well.
 
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Honest question from someone that doesn't belong in this thread. (me)
But can anyone list any actual deals that Microsoft has made that prevented a game from showing up on Playstation?
I stand to be corrected but didn't CoD release map packs first on Xbox back when Activision was in the bed with MS?

Also, iirc, Rockstar had some marketing deal with Xbox and released the SP DLCs for GTAIV for Xbox first?

Both CoD DLC and GTAIV DLCs made their way onto other platforms later, though
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
If the future is 80-100% subscrition gaming.

You are not going to get the amount of bangers you do now, not for $10 a month at least.

You will get them small "AAA like" ventures.

We're talking about the FAR future right now, a one-console kind of future.

I don't see it happening in the 2020's at least.
 

supernova8

Banned
Only thing I would say is that Microsoft is absolutely not going to pay all that money to acquire Bethesda and ActiBliz and let Sony keep access as usual. They might not take away those games from Playstation completely but I don't see how Microsoft agrees to pay the Playstation "cut" to Sony for all Bethesda and ActiBliz from now on unless the remaining profits are more lucrative/valuable (directly and indirectly) than limiting those games to Xbox/Game Pass.

They can say whatever they like and people can parade Minecraft around as much as they like. I simply don't see it for Bethesda and ActiBliz.
 

oldergamer

Member
If these statements are true, then it pretty much confirms that COD and other major Activision franchises will continue releasing on PlayStation for the foreseeable future...or at least until the money MS is wiling to sacrifice by not releasing on PlayStation is offset by some other area such as substantial GamePass revenue/adoption (which may very well happen if all future COD games became GamePass accessible from Day-1 going forward).
its possible, I just doubt it would happen this generation.
 
If the future is 80-100% subscrition gaming.

You are not going to get the amount of bangers you do now, not for $10 a month at least.

You will get them small "AAA like" ventures.

I said this for some time and people don't believe me.

The ultimate goal for Microsoft is to capture a ridiculous amount of market share and charge about £40/$40 a month for their service. Where upon, you'll never pay for a single game ever again. Only costs are hardware and service. When cloud gaming becomes the norm, hardware costs are minimal and subscription costs will vary.

Some people pay in excess of £100/$100 dollars a month just for a smartphone and sim plan. People will pay a contract like price if it means you never have to buy anything else. That includes a competing platform.

Wdym?

We getting TESVI in 2030

Checkmate, next?

Elder Scrolls, Fallout and Starfield were all in development before being acquired by Microsoft.

There are probably games in development right now that we don't know about in development at ABK and Bethesda that are likely way into development before Microsoft bought them.

You do know that don't you? These games weren't specifically made for GamePass? You are aware of that aren't you?

That is as Bob Ross would say, is a happy accident that Microsoft now own TES and can make it exclusive.
 
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oldergamer

Member
Only thing I would say is that Microsoft is absolutely not going to pay all that money to acquire Bethesda and ActiBliz and let Sony keep access as usual. They might not take away those games from Playstation completely but I don't see how Microsoft agrees to pay the Playstation "cut" to Sony for all Bethesda and ActiBliz from now on unless the remaining profits are more lucrative/valuable (directly and indirectly) than limiting those games to Xbox/Game Pass.

They can say whatever they like and people can parade Minecraft around as much as they like. I simply don't see it for Bethesda and ActiBliz.
That statement makes no sense. All games on playstation have to pay a "cut" to sony. its non negotiable.
 

supernova8

Banned
I stand to be corrected but didn't CoD release map packs first on Xbox back when Activision was in the bed with MS?

Also, iirc, Rockstar had some marketing deal with Xbox and released the SP DLCs for GTAIV for Xbox first?

Both CoD DLC and GTAIV DLCs made their way onto other platforms later, though
Starfield is planned as an Xbox/PC exclusive. That game would have been on Playstation if not for the Bethesda acquisition. Also judging by Spencer's comments (that have been hard to pin down) it sounds like Elder Scrolls 6 will also be Xbox/PC exclusive. These are massive games so I don't see how the logic changes for CoD or any of the other ActiBliz franchises. I would imagine the only reason Minecraft is still on everything is because that's what Microsoft's strategy was at the time and it would be weird now to remove Minecraft from Playstation in retrospect.
 

Chiggs

Gold Member
I hope this stops all the bullshit pleasantries between these two companies.

The sickening social media posts, Phil going out of his way to praise Sony....just piss off!
 

supernova8

Banned
That statement makes no sense. All games on playstation have to pay a "cut" to sony. its non negotiable.
Yeah sorry my wording got lost (my thoughts moved beyond my typing speed). I meant to say in the longer term they would not have the games on Playstation because they don't want to pay a cut to Sony. They would only pay that cut to Sony for as long as they thought it made more business sense to do so. Surely their strategy is to grow Game Pass (monthly/annual subscription revenue) exponentially. I'm not sure letting Playstation have access to those games is a good way to do that since Playstation looks like it is gearing up to compete directly with Game Pass.

I'm not necessarily complaining, it's not like Playstation allows any of its owned franchises onto Xbox. Just suggesting that it's unlikely Microsoft will keep Bethesda and ActiBliz as multiplat (ie on Playstation) over the long (or even medium) term.
 
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The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
If 2022 is any indication of MS future game output, I'd say they're in trouble.
According to many in here they've been in trouble since 2013 when Xbox One released.

I think they are doing well while being in a critical condition acoordimg to arm chair specialists for the last 9 years 🤷‍♂️
 
I stand to be corrected but didn't CoD release map packs first on Xbox back when Activision was in the bed with MS?

Also, iirc, Rockstar had some marketing deal with Xbox and released the SP DLCs for GTAIV for Xbox first?

Both CoD DLC and GTAIV DLCs made their way onto other platforms later, though

Yep. They also kept Bioshock and Mass Effect off PlayStation platforms. And while Epic probably can't quote much on it, they kept Gears of War off too.

They said no to cross platform play and later decided it was only okay if users had an XBOX Live or Microsoft account.

Microsoft were massive dicks.

To this day, I don't know how Splinter Cell: Conviction isn't on PlayStation platforms. It's owned by Ubisoft for christ sakes.
 

Riky

$MSFT
Game pass is not a streaming service, no game in development in existence right now is being made to be exclusive to any sub service. All games will also need to release on retail or digital storefronts for purchase. Game pass has been out for 4 year, plenty of games that have appeared on the service started development AFTER game pass launched, none of them have been game pass exclusive.

Please stop jesus lol.

Gamepass is over 5 years old, so the likes of Forza Horizon 5 were developed from the beginning to be available on Gamepass at launch, so that shoots his ridiculous theory down. Also the huge amount of AAA games in development show that Gamepass will have a huge variety of games from AAA to the one man indie, as it should.
 

Infamy v1

Member
Elder Scrolls, Fallout and Starfield were all in development before being acquired by Microsoft.

There are probably games in development right now that we don't know about in development at ABK and Bethesda that are likely way into development before Microsoft bought them.

You do know that don't you? These games weren't specifically made for GamePass? You are aware of that aren't you?

That is as Bob Ross would say, is a happy accident that Microsoft now own TES and can make it exclusive.



Also, so the same thing Sony does with moneyhats, except not 1 year, 2 year or perpetual timed exclusive then? The difference is they're buying to own instead of renting with the sole intention to keep games away from their main competitior??

Carry on, then.
 

vj27

Banned
I think BOTH are saying some stupid stuff here. Both MS and Sony. They are both lying to be honest! They are......maybe not lying completely, but they aren't being fully honest. Neither side is. It's stupid to say that Sony can't make a game that could compete with COD. And it's stupid for MS to act as if Activision/Blizzard doesn't make "must-have" games.
Oh no doubt these are billion/trillion dollar companies at the end of the day, they just want to secure their bag respectively. But going out your way to try an stop a deal that the rest of the industry is ok with and your main complaints being you can’t compete while smaller publisher than you saying it’s a non issue/well be fine is weird.

And regarding the cod not being must have, pretty sure they were referencing Nintendo and steam and epic (not sure if cods on there or not but I doubt it) success within this industry without the use of cod. It’s literally only a must have for PS, nobody else.

I remember way back in the beginning of the ps4 or the end of the ps3 gen that they were saying we don’t need online games because of third parties like EA, epic, and activision. Honestly if MS can find and use that quote that’ll settle everything fr. Hell even Nintendo has their own MASSIVE online games being smash bros, Mario kart, and recently splatoon. If Nintendo can compete/thrive with cod with Mario kart and smash bros than literally anyone can, hell look at multi versus. For a while smash bros was the undisputed fighting game, ofc MK and SF were there and MASSIVE in their own right, smash bros was always on another level. Yet here we are with WB of all people competing with smash bros at 10 mill players in a matter of weeks.

All I’m saying if your agreeing with Sony your just gonna end up scratching your head why the ABK deal went through with all of Sony’s “complaints.” The deal is going to go through, it’s clear as day now. Ofc anything can happen but the writing is on the wall imo.
 
Also, so the same thing Sony does with moneyhats, except not 1 year, 2 year or perpetual timed exclusive then? The difference is they're buying to own and keep them away from their main competitor instead of renting with the sole intention to keep games away from their main competitior??

Carry on, then.

Sorry, had to remove the silly GIF.

I fixed that for you.

Perhaps you don't understand, but this money hatting business was started by Microsoft. Sony did it (and still are doing it) in response to Microsoft.
 

vj27

Banned
The usual people saying Sony are the anti consumerists when it's Xbox that is buying up every 3rd party so they don't release on their competitors platform.
The usual people agreeing with Sony when the rest of the industry literally couldn’t give a lesser shit lol. Like how is this mindset a thing, all that matters is if the ABK deal does or doesn’t go through. So far the entire industry doesn’t mind it, except for Sony… an then they go out there way for another consecutive month saying COD will remain on PS. All of these complaints are a big ol nothing burger, Sonys just mad they can’t slap best/dlc first on PlayStation anymore, woe is me 🤦🏾‍♂️
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Yep. They also kept Bioshock and Mass Effect off PlayStation platforms.

The first Mass Effect was published by MS.

And Bioshock is an example of a policy Sony had where if a game released on the PS3 later than Xbox it had to have exclusive DLC only on that platform. The PS3 Bioshock had a Survival mode and the DLC never came to the 360 as it was PlayStation exclusive. That evolved into the PS4 era where the original Destiny had entire Strikes (basically dungeons) that were locked exclusively to the PS4 version.

Perhaps you don't understand, but this money hatting business was started by Microsoft. Sony did it (and still are doing it) in response to Microsoft.

Sony has been in the console industry longer than Microsoft and was doing it before the original Xbox ever released.

 
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