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[belmarduk]

A museum is to relabel its display about a Roman emperor after concluding that he was in fact a trans woman.

North Hertfordshire Museum will now refer to emperor Elagabalus with the female pronouns of she and her.

It comes after classical texts claim the emperor once said "call me not Lord, for I am a Lady".

A museum spokesperson said it was "only polite and respectful to be sensitive to identifying pronouns for people in the past".

The museum has one coin of Elagabalus, which is often displayed amongst other LGBTQ+ items in its collection.

t said it consulted LGBTQ+ charity Stonewall to ensure "displays, publicity and talks are as up-to-date and inclusive as possible".

Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, better known as Elagabalus, ruled the Roman empire for just four years from 218AD to his assassination, aged 18, in 222AD.

He became an increasingly controversial figure over his short reign, developing a reputation for sexual promiscuity.

Cassius Dio, a senator and contemporary of Elagabalus, writes in his historical chronicles that the emperor was married five times - four times to women, and once to Hiercoles, a former slave and chariot driver.

In this final marriage, Dio writes that the emperor "was bestowed in marriage and was termed wife, mistress and queen".

BBC

Thinking of misgendering Elagabalus? Think again, bigot! You are banned from this historical society. You, and your children and your children's children... for three months.

 

[GnomeChimpsky]

Elaga... ball-less?
Yeah, I'll show myself out...

 

[Fake]

Good luck with that illusion.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Odd how a museum would take what is essentially an anecdote from a single source as gospel and just run with it, but I guess it doesn't matter, since ancient rome didn't exist anyway.

 

[chromhound]

Cleopatra will be non binary next?

 

[DeepEnigma]

The world is preparing for a great reset.

 

[Saber]

Wheres that neat meteor when we need them

 

[jufonuk]

 

[poppabk]

It's supported by documentation at least. Considering how fucking debauched the Roman's were this isn't really that big a deal. Eunuchs were basically forced into being post-op transgender.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[LordCBH]

You freaks can’t change basic biology. Fuck your all. Can’t change this shit.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Didn't George Washington like to wear wigs and makeup?

 

[Kilau]

Joke is on they/them, Rome didn't exist.

 

[Vangu Vegro]

It's supported by documentation at least.

Documentation that was virulently hostile to Elagabalus and his memory, sure. Like saying Mein Kampf supports anything about Jews.

I think he's a tad too trusting of certain parts of the historians' claims while dismissing other parts, but Metatron's video on the subject is pretty decent:

 

[Ammogeddon]

Just think how lucky we all are to be born at the end of Western Civilisation. I wonder if the Romans knew they were on their way out too.

 

[Wolfpact1983]

 

[SJRB]

Pathetic.

 

[Goss Harag]

Give it another decade or so and Martin Luther King will turn out to have been trans all along.

 

[Faust]

And of course, calling this out would have you deplatformed/cancelled as a bigot/transphobe.

 

[Vlodril]

Good for her? Who gives a shit that person has been dead for thousands of years.

 

[LordOfChaos]

What if he was just gay, bi, or just a bit feminine, or shit just joking around

It's silly to retcon creations of modern thinking into a guy who liked to sub 1801 years ago

There are arguments to be made that a lot of the kids being led to believe they are another gender would have instead just grown up regular old gay

 

[Putonahappyface]

 

[TheInfamousKira]

It really spooks me in a primal way realizing that anyone of us could he interpreted as a gay black amputee trans person 150 years from now depending on the way society evolves, and we'll have no say in it because we'll be dead. Cool.

 

[SJRB]

Immediately made me think of this meme:

 

[Toons]

The world is preparing for a great reset.

You are vastly overestimating the amount of people who visit museums lol

 

[Faust]

It really spooks me in a primal way realizing that anyone of us could he interpreted as a gay black amputee trans person 150 years from now depending on the way society evolves, and we'll have no say in it because we'll be dead. Cool.

Real scientists/historians are being silenced/dismissed by morons who think they know better. It is already happening with groups claiming you can't determine sex/race based on bones.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Immediately made me think of this meme:

Oh my god

 

[Raonak]

That's pretty cool

Men identifying as women and vice versa has been a thing that's happened historically in many cultures.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

So we are seeing the collapse of the western roman empire in real-time. Under the same hubris basically.

P.S. It reminds me of that anecdote that "Byzantine empire were collapsing while theologists were debating the gender of angels".

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Didn't George Washington like to wear wigs and makeup?

Brb, changing museums displays to Georgette.

 

[IDKFA]

No. Sorry. This is fucking ridiculous.

Elagabalus was not trans. The single source they're using was intended to be a character assassination. A Roman emperor having effeminate traits was considered a huge insult.

The fact that historians don't understand this is absolutely unbelievable.

 

[MastAndo]

In this final marriage, Dio writes that the emperor "was bestowed in marriage and was termed wife, mistress and queen".

Yassssss, slay!

 

[OverHeat]

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Does Netflix own the museum?

 

[ADiTAR]

 

[winjer]

Historical revisionism at it's worst.

 

[mitch1971]

You consulted Stonewall.

 

[StueyDuck]

can you imagine being the record keeper of your time, writing tales to regale and educate the future of humanity only for them to essentially be illiterate and lack comprehension, essentially smearing your writings/drawings/findings etc. into some political agenda so they can get likes on tiktok. I guess we didn't realise just how dumb humans were going to get.

 

[Majormaxxx]

Takes balls to stand by that Roman emperor and call him a lady... I mean her! Her!

Good for this museum for riding the wave of gender ideology and financial stimulation and concluding that a sexually promiscuous and extremely powerful, affluent, and likely spoiled teenager, who reigned between the ages of 14 and 18 and was married 5 times in this time - finally settling on a man after getting tired of the 4 women who were his.. I mean her! Her wives before that, must have surely identified as woman in earnest. No doubt this wasn't another of his... I mean her! Her frivolities.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

can you imagine being the record keeper of your time, writing tales to regale and educate the future of humanity only for them to essentially be illiterate and lack comprehension, essentially smearing your writings/drawings/findings etc. into some political agenda so they can get likes on tiktok. I guess we didn't realise just how dumb humans were going to get.

I mean, that's basically what history is. Arguably it has never been that objective and it has been politically influenced all the time.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You are vastly overestimating the amount of people who visit museums lol

Expected handwaved retard response.

 

[StueyDuck]

I mean, that's basically what history is. Arguably it has never been that objective and it has been politically influenced all the time.

Eh there's a difference between having to interpret events and moments on hearsay and historical documentation, writings, drawings etc. modernism literally looks back and says "well he didn't say they weren't transgender"... its the same as the ancient aliens lines of thinking.

 

[dave_d]

Documentation that was virulently hostile to Elagabalus and his memory, sure. Like saying Mein Kampf supports anything about Jews.

I think he's a tad too trusting of certain parts of the historians' claims while dismissing other parts, but Metatron's video on the subject is pretty decent:

So is it the case it's like thinking Richard the III was clearly the first handicaped king because Shakespeare portrayed him as such?(You know, ignoring Shakespeare might have an agenda?)

 

[Meicyn]

lmao

 

[Tams]

I'm so sorry for the mental illness of some of my countrymen. I am deeply ashamed.

The worst part, is these lunatics are in positions of authority and power. The worst ones are the fuckers in schools making our children also mentally ill.

 

[Faust]

You are vastly overestimating the amount of people who visit museums lol

And that makes historical revisionism OK?

 

[NeoGiffer]

 

[Scotty W]

I am not surprised. People have been claiming this for at least 15 years.

 

[Toons]

And that makes historical revisionism OK?

I never said it was "ok" or "not ok", but I doubt this is gonna be anything leading to a cultural reset. Theres plenty of precedent for using modern day terminology to describe or refer to historical figures. I dont know enough about this character to say whether or not it's warranted here.

Expected handwaved retard response.

Well! That's rather aggressive of a response.

 

[Toons]

I mean, that's basically what history is. Arguably it has never been that objective and it has been politically influenced all the time.

Yep. Is to this day in fact.

Thinking history is just about the past is a misconception. Its also about how society evolves, and how it evolves in hindsight with itself.

Societal change is a constant, and fighting and clawing against it generally never works. History has shown us that objectively

Words change, concepts change no matter how dogmatic, perceptions of things once understood change.... and as it does, we view our history differently.

Is this museum correct to make such a leap? I'm not sure. But historical leaps in and of themselves are to be expected, because they are necessary. History is not "settled" fact, it is an ongoing debate, fueled by discovery and the evolution of society.

Thats an interesting discussion to be had, but unfortunately it seems most here are more keen to associate this with current cultural disputes that will be largely irrelevant in 100 years.