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[MechaX]

This.

Yes we all know the BBB is technically a powerless toothless organization. The thing is, it still matters to companies like Sony and MS. If you try calling again, threaten them about taking it to the BBB. If they don't help after that. *Actually* take it to the BBB. I had to do that after MS refused to refund me money after my account got hacked a few years back and what do you know, they fixed that real quickly.

Actually, it's a little bit more interesting than that, depending on the company.

With the BBB, there are some businesses that are "members" (technically called Accredited Businesses). Such businesses do have a legal contract with the BBB that they have to make a good faith effort to resolve any complaint that gets filed with a BBB office. If they do not, well... there are repercussions with that. Only the Sony Music branches are accredited, but there's a little bit of a rabbit hole problem if you have branches of a conglomerate that tries to resolve complaints and other branches that do not; they are going to want to know a little bit of info about that.

True, on a technical standpoint, since the BBB is non-legal and is a non-profit, Sony Computer Entertainment has no obligation to respond to a consumer complaint. But it still seems like they do respond to all of their complaints, usually by responding directly to the customer as soon as the BBB gets the complaint. So if this trend continues, if the OP files a complaint with that BBB office, that Sony branch should offer some kind of direct response to this issue.

 

[ubersticky]

Wow, I'm shit scared of anything like this happening =/

Hope you can get your account back.

 

[Tevious]

Shit man that sucks OP. If i was you I'd just be constantly phoning Sony until they sorted it out. The digital future is quite scary.

They don't open their lines until 8:00AM Pacific (7AM on weekends) and that's like midnight here in Korea.

 

[Joni]

Just a curiosity: dunno about other countries, but here in Italy PS3 was labeled ad "TOY", so it has OONLY one years of guarantee.

My PS3 broken after one years and two months, so I went to Gamestop, asking them for a fix or a replacement. They said they weren't allowed to do this change, and I need to contact Sony.

I sent several mails, but after three I sent I received an answer, saying that Sony offers only one yers of guarantee, asking Gamestop if their policy grant me a free fix or a replacement.

Again, I went to Gamestop, they refused to fix my PS3, so I sold them my broken one (yes, here you can do it, but the money they charge on your card are non-existent), buying a new PS3.

Now I'm curious if the PS4 also is labeled as TOY again.

Tell them European Law provides a mandatory 2 year guarantee which included toys and you will contact your local business bureau to report them. Local law will say if you need to contact Sony or GameStop after the first year.

 

[Brigandier]

Ugh, no? What he said was:

He said he was the highest you could reach by phone

I will point you to the words 'BY PHONE'. Do you seriously suspect that the CEO of Sony would call one poor customer because his account was banned? Really? At some point your call will NOT be forwarded further (as long as you are not Bill Gates or President of any country). OP should send a letter

Not to mention the fact that OP already mentioned few situations that could lead to this: using VPN to get US ip even though he is in Korea, problems with Paypal.

You didn't read what I posted or if you did you clearly misunderstood what I meant.

What I meant was the person who said he was as far as he could take it over the phone is fucking bullshit.

As I stated all call centres or at least to my knowledge have operations managers who are above managers who take escalated complaints past a manager and if they can not resolve it is a customer relations case some companies escalate their complaints straight to CR.

You clearly didn't read or get what I stated. All I posted was the order or chain of command as you like to highlight that there is always someone else to speak to until you seek legal advice and it goes to deadlock.

Not sure of the deadlock procedure or what it's called outside the UK but either way all I was doing is pointing out chain of command etc to the OP.

 

[Endy MacK]

Wow, where does PayPal get off making the executive decision to just do a chargeback with no research whatsoever. I can maybe understand alerting you to their suspicion, and letting you confirm if it is a legitimate charge or not, but this is just ridiculous.
I'm sure legal GAF would know better, but is it possible that OP has a valid legal standing against PayPal for the damages, in small claims court?

 

[Whipped Spartan]

This scares me when people make these posts. I have 100s if not 1000s on xbl and psn accounts.

Did op find out if the ip was the ToS violation?

 

[GorillaJu]

So I can't purchase games from the US store as a US citizen when traveling overseas? Even when using PS Cards to make said purchases from other sites? This somehow results in a permanent ban and deletion of my account? How has this not been a common problem for US citizens working abroad and military personal? I don't understand why this would even be an issue. And aren't PS3 games region free, anyway? Could they have banned me under concerns that I am a Korean using a US PSN account to bypass the Asian PS Store and download games cheaper or something? I don't even have any other PSN accounts, let alone for other regions.

It was just conjecture, because I know that it's in Valve's terms of service:

You agree that you will not use IP proxying or other methods to disguise the place of your residence, whether to circumvent geographical restrictions on game content, to purchase at pricing not applicable to your geography, or for any other purpose. If you do this, we may terminate your access to your Account.

However, I just visited http://www.playstation.com/en-us/legal/terms-of-use and I could not find anything about VPNs or Proxies, so this may be something unique to Steam.

I live abroad like yourself, though not military. If you live on the base you're technically on American soil anyway, aren't you? Thus even if there were region restrictions toward accessing US PSN content, you wouldn't be breaking them.

 

[2spooky4me]

This kind of thing makes me terrified of going digital-only.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

Most likely related to the Paypal chargebacks.

This I think, because you are trying to buy outside of the account territory most likely flags this with paypal.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

I'm not sure what I'd do if my accounts were perm banned for a mistake and I lost EVERYTHING.

Best of luck OP, let us know what comes fro mthe PM's you are exchanging, I hope they can help.

 

[flatearthpandas]

While it is a bummer that Paypal might have seen charges authorized from South Korea on a US account as a red flag.... this doesn't sound like a PayPal horror story to me.

Sony refusing to discuss why the account was banned and blocking you from hundreds to thousands of dollars worth of content you paid them for is the horror story here.

I'm in the camp of talk to your bank and charge back EVERYTHING if Sony won't work with you. I would definitely email them first so you at least have them in writing being uncooperative and confirming that they are keeping all of the content you paid for.

 

[Joni]

This I think, because you are trying to buy outside of the account territory most likely flags this with paypal.

Indeed, and chargebacks to them amount to instant bans.

 

[KungFucius]

Do not underestimate the power of social media and GAF. These posts hurt their business and reputation and they would be wise to resolve them in your favor. Even if you did violate something, they should not be able to keep you from games you purchased. Seeing this makes me, and I assume other readers, very weary of buying digital games, paying for subscriptions and even choosing to be a console gamer.

Fix it Sony.

 

[Exile20]

It prevents me from playing PS+ games and I can't log in to download any games/DLC that I've purchased. I can play any games I've bought offline that are already installed. Maybe online with another account on the same PS3. I haven't tried this yet, but it would only be a temporary solution. If my PS3 breaks or hard drive fails, those games are gone forever.

Never give up OP. I'm behind you 110%. Sony should first of all give proof of how you violated their ToS. Even if the ban can be justified, Sony should have no right to deny you goods that you legally bought without reimbursing your expenses in full. They have probably covered their own asses legally in the ToS, but that isn't a justification and does not mean you can't question it. If Sony at all value you as a customer, they should comply.

I'm very interested to hear how this pans out. Hopefully your voice will be heard and your request will be fulfilled in a manner satisfactory to you.

Yet another reason why digital should not be the future.

Does steam Nintendo ms ban accounts for charge backs?

Why not just ban other payments except psn cards? Sony seems dumb here.

 

[SniperHunter]

#4theplayerys

 

[Tevious]

While it is a bummer that Paypal might have seen charges authorized from South Korea on a US account as a red flag.... this doesn't sound like a PayPal horror story to me.

Sony refusing to discuss why the account was banned and blocking you from hundreds to thousands of dollars worth of content you paid them for is the horror story here.

I'm in the camp of talk to your bank and charge back EVERYTHING if Sony won't work with you. I would definitely email them first so you at least have them in writing being uncooperative and confirming that they are keeping all of the content you paid for.

I'm pretty sure I've used PayPal for other things while in Korea and had no problems until now. Not sure what their problem was. Being that it was a gaming currency that I purchased was probably the biggest flag for them because of all these people hacking for that kind of stuff, like the recent FIFA thing going on.Also, a few years back my mother had someone buy WoW gold from a Chinese website with her credit card.


Anyway, I just finished going through all my email records from Sony and I have 101 purchases totaling $1,467.01 and I know I'm missing some things (deleted emails), so it's probably well over $1,500. Actually, I remember my Transaction History having over 400 items in it.

 

[FairFriend]

.

By the way PunishedSnake, do you know any trustworhty site which sells digital codes for psn cards here in Italy?

EDIT: wait, I might have just realized that there is no such thing as a digital psn card in our country...

 

[Fluffhead14]

isn't this the kind of thing that the gaf-hivemind jumps all over? raise your voices fellas.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

I'm pretty sure I've used PayPal for other things while in Korea and had no problems until now. Not sure what their problem was. Being that it was a gaming currency that I purchased was probably the biggest flag for them because of all these people hacking for that kind of stuff, like the recent FIFA thing going on.

This is exactly what I think the cause is. Those scams all involve buying store credit from different regions, and so it's likely that either Sony, Paypal or both have something in place now to reduce this happening.

I do not believe it is fair, and I think you should keep trying with Sony, however frustrating it is. They have a duty to inform you of why your paid service has been restricted, and why your paid goods have been blocked. This next bit is really important:

Be really nice on the phone. Do not give them shit. Do not tell them they must do anything. Talk to them well and be consistent, and I'm sure someone can help you.

 

[Tevious]

This is exactly what I think the cause is. Those scams all involve buying store credit from different regions, and so it's likely that either Sony, Paypal or both have something in place now to reduce this happening.

I do not believe it is fair, and I think you should keep trying with Sony, however frustrating it is. They have a duty to inform you of why your paid service has been restricted, and why your paid goods have been blocked. This next bit is really important:

Be really nice on the phone. Do not give them shit. Do not tell them they must do anything. Talk to them well and be consistent, and I'm sure someone can help you.

Yeah, I know. I've kept my cool with them so far. Getting angry at people over the phone isn't going to get them to want to help you out. Gotta put yourself in their situation, if someone is screaming at me I'd want to hang up.

 

[SAiLO]

Feeling for you OP.

I'd spend some time on social media asking for help on Sony's pages. It's bad PR when customer in need does not get their problem resolved.

Twitter, Facebook give you powerful leverage.

 

[teiresias]

In addition to protection from security beeches, charge back concerns are another reason why I only use prepaid cards on PSN and Valve and buy them at a store.

Still, I think these services need to find a better course of action to take when a charge back occurs.

 

[Lashley]

Kick up a fuss on twitter and contact Yosp, probably have better luck then

 

[Delusibeta]

All digital distributors ban you if you issue a chargeback, intentionally or otherwise. All of them, regardless of what they distribute.

 

[The Real Napsta]

This is why I buy games on disc.

 

[Loomba]

This is my worst fear, you literally have no power over this and we agree to all their absurd terms. I hope you get your stuff back man

 

[darkwing]

why did Paypal do the chargeback in the first place?

 

[lmbotiva]

only games i have digitally are the ones free with ps+, everything else on disc, i do have ps+ subscription until 2016 so this stories kinda made me worry a little bit, start tweeting shu OP, he might have someone take a look at it

 

[derfybzh]

It's lame from Sony even if it's half paypal fault, you don't ban an user who have bought you a lot of games for a default payment option on one transaction.

That's just plain stupid and that is what happen when your store is run by robot instead of human.

What is the most stupid thing is that you don't ban a user without giving him a clear answers on why he's banned. And no TOS violation without proof is not an answer for me.

 

[E92 M3]

Man, I hope you get this resolved. The entropic nature of bans is too much for me. I only buy digital for games under ten dollars. Business need to start offering assurances about what we get to keep in worst case scenario.

 

[F0rneus]

Oh man this is bad. PayPal really needs to do something about this chargeback bullshit. This is terrifying stuff. And this whole "tied to account" angle has to be changed for me to ever consider going digital only. Losing games for an error that isn't even your own, is simply horrible. Good luck OP.

 

[Apdiddy]

I'm thinking it has to do with Paypal, but you would think someone at Sony's customer support would investigate issues before taking action like banning PSN accounts (i.e. look at your past history, call Paypal, etc.)

I used to work in call centers and it's always been my experience that supervisors don't know anymore than the agent answering the phone. Policies are dictated by someone above them and half the time the communication to customers (or even across departments) is never clear or consistent. But I worked in some pretty bad call centers so take what I say with a grain of salt.

 

[J4g3r]

Well this is very unfortunate, I hope everything gets cleared up and your ban gets revoked.

Quite silly that Sony can just block your whole game library like that...


On a lighter note, I actually got threatened earlier today while playing Dark Souls II.

 

[Loomba]

PayPal are shit lately, I bought a necklace for my girlfriend with PayPal and after I paid I got no confirmation email and it didn't redirect me back to the site I bought from. I sent them an email but they didn't respond. After 3 weeks thankfully the necklace came but PayPal never got back to me. I wouldn't mind but the necklace was quite expensive. Not going to use them for anything important in future.

 

[panda-zebra]

Can buy digital PSN cards from Amazon.

Have done so personally. The comment was "drive to the store". OP is in South Korea.

 

[Shredderi]

For an all digital future to really happen, these kinds of things will somehow have to go away or be easily remedied I think.

 

[Violater]

This is just madness, even more reason I will never go digital and I always think hard before buying dlc. I will pay for plus because I have no choice and take whatever free games it comes with but shit like this scares me away from putting down cash for something I can't keep.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Not sure if mentioned but upon your mentioning of Re-shelled, I re-remembered that it isn't available for purchase anymore. Maybe something there triggered something.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Yeah. This is why I buy only on disc, unless its a $10 - $15 PSN indie title. Will not buy AAA or expensive games digitally. Forget that.

 

[Dreamgazer]

It's lame from Sony even if it's half paypal fault, you don't ban an user who have bought you a lot of games for a default payment option on one transaction.

That's just plain stupid and that is what happen when your store is run by robot instead of human.

I'm thinking it has to do with Paypal, but you would think someone at Sony's customer support would investigate issues before taking action like banning PSN accounts (i.e. look at your past history, call Paypal, etc.)

*facepalm*

There's no point to devote manpower to investigate and "make assumptions" for every possible flag that can occur in a system. There's also no point to keep a possibly compromised account open just so more damages can be done (ex:sell off of digital goods.)

Sony's fault here is not providing adequate support, communication and error resolution to the customer.
People should stop trying to find fault to the industry norm of "Chargeback = ban/suspend" unless they can come up with a better solution.

 

[nkarafo]

Damn, this is why nobody should ever invest so much in such a service. I mean, if you are going to have a huge collection of games, the first thing that you need is a way to future-proof them. And there is no way to future proof games that depend on more factors than having the hardware/emulator to play them (assuming software is not bound to one particular machine) and, of course, electricity. Online account/DRM/digital services only add more things for your games to depend on in order to work.

Even if a service promises this and that, you can never be sure because you have no control. Anyone can change their TOS whenever they want. And of course there are things like the OP is going through. It doesn't matter who's fault it is, all that matters is that you simply have no control over the whole thing.

I know that my post isn't very helpful to you OP but its a food for thought for anyone else planning to build a huge collection of games using an online service like that. Just buy the cheap, exclusive stuff and always have in your mind that you might not have access to them in a few years, for whatever reason. They are cheap, but you are renting them. If you are a collector, go physical. Or GoG.

 

[Death Metalist]

After reading the OP, Here is my take on a digital only future.

 

[Carl]

Raise a big stink on Twitter. Companies will bend over backwards to fix your problem even if they screwed you over in private. It's like magic.

Being the guy that got a free PS4 by doing this, i'd say this is a good idea

 

[RK9039]

Another reason for me to not bother with PSN and Sony.

 

[Yagharek]

Another reason for me to not bother with PSN and Sony.

This is pretty much how I feel. I know and understand why people are pointing the finger at paypal, but Sony enabled that as a payment option and seem not to have factored in the peculiarities of paypal into consideration.

As it stands, the end user as always is the victim. And only will they get a resolution when enough of a stink is kicked up and it becomes inconvenient for sony to fix it. For all those people who dont or arent able to get direct help from people in the know they end up getting scammed by sony's policies.

 

[Portugeezer]

Wow, and with this I will never use paypal on PS4.

Another reason for me to not bother with PSN and Sony.

It's a bi-product of owning the best console.

 

[RK9039]

Wow, and with this I will never use paypal on PS4.

It's a bi-product of owning the best console.

True, but then again I use my PS4 as a footrest.

 

[Effect]

This completely sucks and one of my greatest fears regarding digital purchases. I hope this gets resolved someone. Call them back, demand to speak with a supervisor. Go up higher if you have to by searching for the correct departments if you haven't already.

 

[BumblebeeCody]

Never stop calling them. Try to get someone big on YouTube to get your case noticed.