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[DY_nasty]

It's a lot easier to Monday morning quarter back events like this.


Tell me I'm wrong.

Also, he wasn't about to die until he kept doing the opposite of what the cop was telling him.

and you're the one quarterbacking saying that the guy should've done this or that

but reaching? break that one down for me. because your guess is as good as mine when it comes to where his other hand was. it just makes all of no sense at all to have one hand out the window while the other is reaching for an already spotted and identified weapon

meanwhile cop screaming that he's going to fucking kill him over and over between commands that he's obviously already forgotten while putting a gun in guys face through a window

nice clear commands on top of approaching the passenger side first showing he gives no fucks about how a traffic stop is supposed to go down anways

 

[TheJLC]

It's a lot easier to Monday morning quarter back events like this.


Tell me I'm wrong.

Also, he wasn't about to die until he kept doing the opposite of what the cop was telling him.

Exactly. It's unfortunate, but the officer was nice until he saw a weapon. For all we know the officer could have been distracted for a second, not seen the weapon, and he might be dead right now. This is why the officer escalated, and is allowed to do so.

The man died because he failed to listen to instructions when he was already found to be within the range of the firearm. The officer does not know if has another weapon on him.

 

[Pickles Spill]

As I said before the officer told him not to move but think rationally.

The gun sparked all of this off, he was told not to move, whilst the officer fumbles opening a door, door opens and he moves out of the door. Away from the gun, he CAN'T move toward the gun, gesture toward it, look at it, hold it OUTSIDE of the car.

Do you feel me?

It doesn't look like the cop opened the door, especially since he was saying "no you're not."

 

[NullPointer]

Forgive me for not following the details of this case up to this point, but why was their car stopped in the first place?

What crime was being investigated or prevented by the police here?

 

[DietRob]

It's not "just" someone getting out of a car. It's someone who has shot three people previously, and someone who has been arrested previously by the same cop, and it's someone who has a weapon in the glovebox in front of him.

" the officer reached into the car and appeared to remove a silver handgun."

So the gun is now out of the equation. Removed by the same officer that used his gun to down a now unarmed man. Isn't it their job to be able to rationally with these type of 'bad people'. I'm guess that's what your labeling the guy after considering his previous arrests that he served time for.

That is a very brave thing for you to say, sometimes the internet makes you blind to the ridiculous demands we make of others who are putting their lives on the line every single day while we're the comfort of our armchairs.

Nope. It's not a brave thing at all for me to say because I didn't choose to enter into a field of work in which my life can be in danger each day I report to work. I do expect those that do choose to enter that field to be able to deal with it better than just any other average person. Don't you?

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Forgive me for not following the details of this case up to this point, but why was their car stopped in the first place?

What crime was being investigated or prevented by the police here?

You should probably watch the video. Especially given your last post.

 

[Toxi]

Forgive me for not following the details of this case up to this point, but why was their car stopped in the first place?

What crime was being investigated or prevented by the police here?

First line of the OP.

With the dash cam in their cruiser rolling, police pulled a Jaguar over for running a stop sign on a dark New Jersey night.

 

[RefigeKru]

It doesn't look like the cop opened the door, especially since he was saying "no you're not."

Just watched again, cop definitely was holding him in as he was trying to leave.

 

[TheJLC]

Forgive me for not following the details of this case up to this point, but why was their car stopped in the first place?

What crime was being investigated or prevented by the police here?

Regular traffic stop. They failed to stop at a stop sign.

Officer was nice and asked for license and registration, they opened the glove box and he saw a weapon. That's where Officer Friendly stopped being friendly.

 

[darscot]

The repeated screaming of "no you not" was very confusing for me. I have no idea what this means as a command.

 

[Coins]

The cop told him repeatedly not to move. The cop was holding the door shut so the idiot wouldn't approach the officer. Cop let's the door go and the moron, with a gun in his face, jumps out of the car.

Pretty routine. Cop won't get punished as its clear by the video he feared for his safety.

The repeated screaming of "no you not" was very confusing for me. I have no idea what this means as a command.

The dead guy was trying to get out of the car and the cop was telling him "no you're not" and holding the suspect in the vehicle by blocking the door.

 

[RefigeKru]

The cop removed the gun, unless I'm seeing things. His concern was this guy was still armed AND not following instructions.

See I didn't even notice that.

I thought all the fear from the police was in the possibility that the suspect would make a move for the gun in the glovebox. Why didn't he after removing the gun, open the door, and take the suspect out where he could then verify those deep seated fears? Instead of acting upon them.

 

[Pickles Spill]

" the officer reached into the car and appeared to remove a silver handgun."

So the gun is now out of the equation. Removed by the same officer that used his gun to down a now unarmed man. Isn't it their job to be able to rationally with these type of 'bad people'. I'm guess that's what your labeling the guy after considering his previous arrests that he served time for.

I brought up the prior action of the guy to illustrate why "a guy getting out of a car causes you to fear for your life." Knowing those things as a person, it is very, very difficult to keep from getting fearful. I'm only justifying the fear here, not the shooting.

Nope. It's not a brave thing at all for me to say because I didn't choose to enter into a field of work in which my life can be in danger each day I report to work. I do expect those that do choose to enter that field to be able to deal with it better than just any other average person. Don't you?

At the end of the day, everyone wants to get home, regardless of the field. Regardless if you're able to deal with danger better than someone else, if you're fearful and someone isn't following orders, problems ensue.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

See I didn't even notice that.

I thought all the fear from the police was in the possibility that the suspect would make a move for the gun in the glovebox. Why didn't he after removing the gun, open the door, and take the suspect out where he could then verify those deep seated fears? Instead of acting upon them.

Presumably because the guy he's yelling at isn't listening to instructions. Initially he tells his partner to get th driver out, then he begins yelling at the passenger to quit reaching and moving (he doesn't know if tnis guy also has a gun on his person). It never goes back to securing the driver first and continues to escalate.

 

[TheJLC]

See I didn't even notice that.

I thought all the fear from the police was in the possibility that the suspect would make a move for the gun in the glovebox. Why didn't he after removing the gun, open the door, and take the suspect out where he could then verify those deep seated fears? Instead of acting upon them.

Looks like the guy was moving around so the officer was first trying to get him to stop moving around and show his hands.

 

[Coins]

See I didn't even notice that.

I thought all the fear from the police was in the possibility that the suspect would make a move for the gun in the glovebox. Why didn't he after removing the gun, open the door, and take the suspect out where he could then verify those deep seated fears? Instead of acting upon them.

Because he was holding a gun at the suspect. Is he supposed to lower his weapon and then wrestle the guy? The cop on the right wanted the suspect to stay still until his partner handcuffed the driver and then they would have extracted the suspect from the vehicle together.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I get it, if you make a pathetic attempt at a strawman argument and make the opposing opinions seem as absurd as possible maybe your own opinion will be validated right? Maybe the offier should have come up to the passenger side in a monks robe with a daisy in hand to put in the barrel of the gun in the glove compartment right?

wait, wait, hold up here... a guy who shot at cops before shooting at them again is an absurd strawman? he has literally shot at cops before. why not this time? why are you dodging?

 

[RefigeKru]

Presumably because the guy he's yelling at isn't listening to instructions. Initially he tells his partner to get th driver out, then he begins yelling at the passenger to quit reaching and moving (he doesn't know if tnis guy also has a gun on his person). It never goes back to securing the driver first and continues to escalate.

Yeah but the guys hands are up at 1.06.

'I ain't doing nothing' 1.28 No reason to reach.

Listening in, it sounds like the guy who got shot was looking for an alternative to getting shouted at in the car. Listen close around 1.40.

That's what escalates to the 'No you're not' being thrown around then bam.

Because he was holding a gun at the suspect. Is he supposed to lower his weapon and then wrestle the guy? The cop on the right wanted the suspect to stay still until his partner handcuffed the driver and then they would have extracted the suspect from the vehicle together.

Seeing as the police officer is right handed I'd say open the door with his left hand, train gun with right, step back to allow distance between self and target, tell him to turn around with hands on head, etc, cuff and check for weapons.

Alternatively if any kind of force is warranted it's in roughing him up some or using a taser. But they have legal consequences greater than the shooting could pose.

So at the moment we have reaching and stepping out of a car, as well as decade old history for being sufficient to shoot someone during a stop for passing a stop sign?

 

[NullPointer]

Regular traffic stop. They failed to stop at a stop sign.

Cigarettes and stop signs. Just more things that can get you killed.

I see that video and I see a death that could have been avoided if we had a police force trained to de-escalate rather than shoot-to-kill so damn easily.

This man just died because he opened a car door, probably in an effort to save his life. He is now dead - not because he pulled a weapon on a cop, not because he looked to have a weapon on him - but because he left the car on the side that the cop was covering. The cop told him not to move - but also said he was reaching and that he'd be dead if so - and that's reason enough to eliminate a life from the planet.

Its just another tragedy because we give police too much free reign to just straight up kill people. And over stupid, seemingly completely avoidable shit too.

 

[RefigeKru]

Cigarettes and stop signs. Just more things that can get you killed.

I see that video and I see a death that could have been avoided if we had a police force trained to de-escalate rather than shoot-to-kill so damn easily.

This man just died because he opened a car door, probably in an effort to save his life. He is now dead - not because he pulled a weapon on a cop, not because he looked to have a weapon on him - but because he left the car on the side that the cop was covering. The cop told him not to move - but also said he was reaching and that he'd be dead if so - and that's reason enough to eliminate a life from the planet.

Its just another tragedy because we give police too much free reign to just straight up kill people. And over stupid, seemingly completely avoidable shit too.

This is the point that gets me so much and mostly because the defenders refuse to question it and particularly what it means of the current police situation in America.

The exact same arguments are told against me here in the UK but in the sense that if I get arrested or hurt by the police, it's my fault, I could have done this better, I have no reason to talk back, if I just listen, if I just etc.etc. And despite never being in any police troubles I'm still told this guideline from so many peers, family and even the fucking government and media at times.

http://www.inquest.org.uk/statistics/fatal-police-shootings

Fortunately I can't get shot if I choose not to listen to the Police, no matter how crazed and enraged their requests might be.

 

[Sol..]

He shouldn't have gotten out but I can see how he could be confused with all the illogical angry barking and jerking at the car handle.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Damned if you don't move ("He's reaching for a gun!"), damned if you do ("Don't move or we'll shoot!").

Seems that way.

Even if the dude did get out of the car when he was told to stay, he clearly had his hands up and communicated his intentions. Another cop fucking trigger happy.

1.07

'Get 'em out the car Rodge(?) we got a gun in his glove compartment'

Lots of don't move. Guy says he's not moving, officer tells him to not to move (This is where context is really important. The victim obviously believes movements toward the gun which prompts the officers into their frenzy is likely to get him shot, not just movement in general - especially if it conforms with the earlier remark to get them out of the car. He was complying after all!) Door opens. He leaves door and gets shot.

How are you people saying this is okay?

I didn't catch that the first time. Cops fucked up.

 

[dork]

He gave him enough warning...the guy obviously reached for something. You also dont get out of the car and go towards the officer who is pointing a gun at you unless instructed too

 

[xxracerxx]

He gave him enough warning...the guy obviously reached for something. You also dont get out of the car and go towards the officer who is pointing a gun at you unless instructed too

What? Did you watch the video?

 

[Shamrock7r]

He gave him enough warning...the guy obviously reached for something. You also dont get out of the car and go towards the officer who is pointing a gun at you unless instructed too

It's not obvious at all what the passenger was doing inside. There is no way to tell if he was reaching for something or if he had his hands up. The video isn't good enough to say with any certainty.

 

[minx]

What? Did you watch the video?

He did watch it as did I. Watch his left hand at 1:38. You can see it moving upwards from the center console.

And SMH at people stating he got killed for the stop sign. He got killed because of his actions afterwards. You know how many millions of people have been stopped for a traffic violation and not been shot because they know how to properly act around the police. It's sad what happened but any reasonable person would fear for their life in that situation.

 

[KHarvey16]

1.07

'Get 'em out the car Rodge(?) we got a gun in his glove compartment'

He's telling his partner to remove the driver from the car.

 

[akira28]

aggressive ground laying. if he lay on the ground he could turn into a snake and bite them. They really had no choice but to stop and drop him before he could lay down on the ground.


I wonder if the guy erroneously thought that the prone position would be the safest one for him to be in, so they couldn't say he was reaching for a gun and shoot his car up.

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

Following Police instructions is common sense. The suspect should have listened, instead of forcing his way out of the car.

 

[minx]

aggressive ground laying. if he lay on the ground he could turn into a snake and bite them. They really had no choice but to stop and drop him before he could lay down on the ground.


I wonder if the guy erroneously thought that the prone position would be the safest one for him to be in, so they couldn't say he was reaching for a gun and shoot his car up.

How does this benefit the discussion at all? This is nonsense.

 

[yankeeforever2]

aggressive ground laying. if he lay on the ground he could turn into a snake and bite them. They really had no choice but to stop and drop him before he could lay down on the ground.


I wonder if the guy erroneously thought that the prone position would be the safest one for him to be in, so they couldn't say he was reaching for a gun and shoot his car up.

What the fuck are you even talking about? You high?

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Sounds like an open and shot case..

 

[Loofy]

I noticed the officer never actually told the victim to stay in the car. Just to keep his hands up, which he did even when exiting the car.

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

I noticed the officer never actually told the victim to stay in the car. Just to keep his hands up, which he did even when exiting the car.

The cops said "dont you fucking move" on at least 7 occasions before the guy forced his way out of the car. The cop even leaned on the car door at the end in an attempt to stop the guy exiting the vehicle.
You cant seriously be implying that the guy didnt know he was supposed to stay in the car. lol

 

[minx]

The cops said "dont you fucking move" on at least 7 occasions before the guy forced his way out of the car. The cop even leaned on the car door at the end in an attempt to stop the guy exiting the vehicle.
You cant seriously be implying that the guy didnt know he was supposed to stay in the car. lol

Is this your first neogaf cop thread? People will come up with anything to support their biased cause of hatred for the police.

 

[Big Baybee]

Is this your first neogaf cop thread? People will come up with anything to support their biased cause of hatred for the police.

Every one of these threads have plenty of people on both sides of the argument. What bias?

 

[Loofy]

The cops said "dont you fucking move" on at least 7 occasions before the guy forced his way out of the car. The cop even leaned on the car door at the end in an attempt to stop the guy exiting the vehicle.
You cant seriously be implying that the guy didnt know he was supposed to stay in the car. lol

He asked the cop 'Im trying to get out of the car.'
So hes obviously not trying to 'force' himself out of anything. Thats like a robber trying to break open a door and saying 'Hey homeowner, Im trying to break into your house.'

'You reach for something youre fucking dead'
'Hes reaching, hes reaching!!'
That right there is enough for anyone to start panicking considering trigger happy cops. He probably thought leaving the car was his best option before he got his brains blown out.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Is this your first neogaf cop thread? People will come up with anything to support their biased cause of hatred for the police.

 

[Spongebob]

Lmao at people defending the cop. This is murder, plain and simple.

 

[werks]

This is probably the first cop thread that I'm not seeing the outrage.

1. Have a gun in your car will ALWAYS escalate a situation if you get pulled over. The only way to deescalate is the inform the officer of the gun immediately. If you don't tell him, the officer will always draw his gun when he see's that you are armed. This will happen regardless of your skin color (and i'm speaking as a minority).

2. Given the fact that the officer already knew about the suspects rap sheet and that he fired at officers before, he had enough reasonable cause to become aggressive. The officer had no way of knowing if the suspect had weapons on his person as well. The suspect then doesn't follow the officers commands and get out of the car towards the officer. The officer only has a split second to react and the man ends up dead.

If you are an ex-con who have fired at police officer before AND have a weapon in your car (most likely illegal) AND don't follow the officers instruction, something bad will probably happen to you regardless of your race.

 

[Realyst]

I...kinda have to side with the cops on this. Days pleaded with Reid to stay in the car, I mean he was literally trying to prevent him from getting out. Days had no idea of Reid's intent at that point, since he wasn't complying with his requests to chill out at all.

 

[Loofy]

I...kinda have to side with the cops on this. Days pleaded with Reid to stay in the car, I mean he was literally trying to prevent him from getting out. Days had no idea of Reid's intent at that point, since he wasn't complying with his requests to chill out at all.

You can see his intent pretty clearly. They were up in the air. Jesus.

 

[minx]

He asked the cop 'Im trying to get out of the car.'
So hes obviously not trying to 'force' himself out of anything. Thats like a robber trying to break open a door and saying 'Hey homeowner, Im trying to break into your house.'

'You reach for something youre fucking dead'
'Hes reaching, hes reaching!!'
That right there is enough for anyone to start panicking considering trigger happy cops. He probably thought leaving the car was his best option before he got his brains blown out.

Wha? What? He DID force himself out of the car. After he was told not to multiple times. Trigger happy cops? How about the trigger happy felon who has personally fired on officers before. No reasonable person would think forcing a door open and disobeying direct orders from an officer would be the best option. The best option is show in the video, watch the driver!

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

He asked the cop 'Im trying to get out of the car.'
So hes obviously not trying to 'force' himself out of anything. Thats like a robber trying to break open a door and saying 'Hey homeowner, Im trying to break into your house.'

'You reach for something youre fucking dead'
'Hes reaching, hes reaching!!'
That right there is enough for anyone to start panicking considering trigger happy cops. He probably thought leaving the car was his best option before he got his brains blown out.

The guy in the car is trying to open the car door whilst the cop is leaning on it, trying to keep it closed. Therefore the guy in the car is trying to force the door open. Its insane to suggest anything else.
Everyone makes dumb mistakes and in this situation getting out of the car was definitely a dumb mistake (at best).

 

[Shamrock7r]

You can see his intent pretty clearly. They were up in the air. Jesus.

I believe he was referring to the moment prior to the man getting out raising his hands. There looks to be a struggle with the car door between the officer and the man inside.

 

[Loofy]

The guy in the car is trying to open the car door whilst the cop is leaning on it, trying to keep it closed. Therefore the guy in the car is trying to force the door open. Its insane to suggest anything else.
Everyone makes dumb mistakes and in this situation getting out of the car was definitely a dumb mistake (at best).

-Cop was leaning into the car as you said. Victim clearly says 'Im trying to open the door.'
-Cop moves out of the way
-Now that the cop is out of the way the suspect opens the door. Theres no struggle.

 

[Piecake]

Wha? What? He DID force himself out of the car. After he was told not to multiple times. Trigger happy cops? How about the trigger happy felon who has personally fired on officers before. No reasonable person would think forcing a door open and disobeying direct orders from an officer would be the best option. The best option is show in the video, watch the driver!

force himself? lol, by stepping out of the car with his hands up, a car that was open thanks to the officer opening the car door?

How could the dude done what the driver did when he cop opened the car door? Are you really expecting everyone to think clearly when some dude is screaming at you and pointing a gun in your face as well? The cop on the driver side was comparatively more calm, which might be a reason, besides obvious individual differences, that allowed the driver to stick his hands out.

Communication needs to be consistent. The cops actions told him to get of the car while his words told to stay put. The dude was probably freaking out and was fearful for his life thanks to a cop screaming in his face to get his hands up, I am going to kill you and waiving a gun in his face.

I don't think it is shocking that the passenger tried to exit the opened vehicle since that is a flight reaction, away from the gun and away from the situation. What I find shocking is so many people in here think that the cop is justified killing a dude with his hands raised because he did not follow his inconsistent verbal and physical communication.

 

[Shamrock7r]

-Cop was leaning into the car as you said. Victim clearly says 'Im trying to open the door.'
-Cop moves out of the way
-Now that the cop is out of the way the suspect opens the door. Theres no struggle.

There is very clearly something going on with the cop and the door that starts about the 1:40 mark. The cop is holding onto the door while door is moving and the car is rocking back and forth. Either the man inside was trying to open the door at this point, and the officer was trying to keep the door closed, or the officer was trying to open the door himself, and was having trouble.

As I said in the thread earlier, the more plausible scenario looks to be the first scenario, primarily because of the conversation right before, and because of the way the door opens very quickly. You can vaguely audibly hear the passenger say he is going to come out of the car with his hands raised. The cop repeatedly says "no you're not" while the car is shaking and "don't fucking move". The door then is quickly opened and the passenger comes out hands raised.

Does that seem like a reasonable analysis of that moment?

 

[MikeDown]

The man clearly wasn't complying and had a gun in his glove box.

 

[zeemumu]

Dealing with cops is like playing the deadliest game of Simon Says.