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[Stallion Dan]

What are you rabbiting on about man. If you and to go explore empty landscaes and climb hills, go buy Zelda.

Destiny is a coop shooter played with friends with lots of enemies onscreen, its not for wandering around an empty wilderness. If you want to go wandeing, buy a different game. No destiny players gives a crap about go to that mountain.

If you said the coop shooting experience was not to your liking and said why, players might actually read your post.

If you wnat to troll Destiny, try putting some effort in and be good at it.

I expected a large open world because the Dev said there was one. Dev lied. Huge amounts of people complained and called them out on it.

Evidently people don't like being lied to cos sales for D2 dropped heavily.

You defense of shitty practices sucks btw. Go buy Zelda. Wow.

 

[Gator86]

I'm not sure what's with the dismissiveness here. The AAA console industry is absolutely in trouble, in the UK at least.

Big sequel after big sequel is down, down, down. Destiny 2 is not an exception, it's the rule.

Digital sales have not been the saviour the industry hoped for or expected. Lootboxes and the like are not a greedy play from a position of strength, they are a desperate scramble for life against looming catastrophe.

Won't someone please think of these poor companies!?

 

[RSB]

"We could go there now".

It was a lie then, it is still a lie today.

Destiny is not Halo.

Please, stop twisting their words.

I expected a large open world because the Dev said there was one. Dev lied. Huge amounts of people complained and called them out on it.

Evidently people don't like being lied to cos sales for D2 dropped heavily.

You defense of shitty practices sucks btw. Go buy Zelda. Wow.

Seriously, stop.

 

[CosmicQueso]

The increase in digital sales did not offset a 50% loss in physical sales.

You seem awfully sure of this.

 

[Juan]

You’re being really silly here. Everyone at that presentation knew what he meant. Context is key.

Ahem, sorry but, from how Joseph Staten talked about this, it was clear for everyone the space they showed would be playable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9YoJjdEBv8

I'm a Halo gamer since the beginning, so I know Bungie always made their skybox with real geometry rather than 2D pictures, but in Halo, they never told it would be playable terrain, just it was real landscape geometry.

A lot of people, including me to be honest, were blown away went he said it was all playable if you ran out of the demo they showed, because it would have been insane for Bungie to create such a wonderful engine.

Even people who were there during the presentation thought it would be playable space, and they talked about this in articles. Content isn't key sorry. Maybe you understood from the get go it would be not playable, and read though the lines, but most people didn't.

It would be dishonest to say Bungie didn't lie about all of this, as people were making expectation based on everything they said and they didn't correct anything to be sure people wouldn't expect too much.

But I don't think they lied on purpose. They were just really excited about their game, which is understandable, and talk a bit too much about the things they really wanted to bring to us.

Link? I never saw any destiny 1 vanilla ad showing off TTK content or iron lords content. Or destiny 2 content lmao.

Then you may have missed a lot of videos, or you may not remember everything:

- Jupiter & Taken King Vista from E3 Gameplay trailer
- Taken King Dreadnaught space in their second official vidoc, used as add
- House of Wolf social space in the PS4 official trailer
- House of Wolf content from the Destiny 1 reveal trailer
- Destiny 2 European Dead Zone in the reveal trailer of Destiny

Again, I don't think it's fair to blame Bungie about this, which could be considered as lies, but I think it's understandable that people and players would feel bad when they saw that content for vanilla Destiny showed in trailer to only be sell later, not matter the stories about the development of the game being bad, as DLC.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

You seem awfully sure of this.

Though I know you can't give exacts in this case, has the industry seen digital sales increase to make up loss physical sales? Part of me feels there may be a slight increase in some cases

 

[ZeoVGM]

It’s amazing people think digital sales aren’t consistently growing at a significant pace every quarter

The fact that people think you could fairly compare digital sales for the launch of a game like Destiny now to the launch of it in 2014 is laughable.

Not to mention the numerous other factors here, such as the game being on 50% less consoles than the original game and a first-ever PC version that is getting a delayed release.

Yes, the headline sounds bad. It would be terrible if there were not numerous other factors. But people are ignoring incredibly important context and basic facts in order to paint the picture that Destiny is selling poorly. Meanwhile, they are ignoring people who know more about this stuff than anyone in this thread because it doesn't fit their narrative.

 

[Deku Tree]

The fact that people think you could fairly compare digital sales for the launch of a game like Destiny now to the launch of it in 2014 is laughable.

Not to mention the numerous other factors here, such as the game being on 50% less consoles than the original game and a first-ever PC version that is getting a delayed release.

Yes, the headline sounds bad. It would be terrible if there were not numerous other factors. But people are ignoring incredibly important context and basic facts in order to paint the picture that Destiny is selling poorly. Meanwhile, they are ignoring people who know more about this stuff than anyone in this thread because it doesn't fit their narrative.

What evidence is there that Zhuge knows anything other than his own feelings about the digital sales of D2?

 

[zelas]

That isn't so bad. Console digital and PC should be able to make up the difference. Also Destiny 1 and other games did benefit from a lack of competition before the holiday 2014 season. Considering we're seeing the same thing happening right now with Switch, as it does with all consoles, that factors needs to be considered. The house isn't on fire.

 

[RulkezX]

The fact that people think you could fairly compare digital sales for the launch of a game like Destiny now to the launch of it in 2014 is laughable.

Not to mention the numerous other factors here, such as the game being on 50% less consoles than the original game and a first-ever PC version that is getting a delayed release.

Yes, the headline sounds bad. It would be terrible if there were not numerous other factors. But people are ignoring incredibly important context and basic facts in order to paint the picture that Destiny is selling poorly. Meanwhile, they are ignoring people who know more about this stuff than anyone in this thread because it doesn't fit their narrative.

Ignore it bro. They're this weird thing here lately where a section of the forum is actively celebrating games selling poorly ( not indie or Japanese gamers though , they're still sacred).

 

[gamechanger87]

What evidence is there that Zhuge knows anything other than his own feelings about the digital sales of D2?

Cosmic knows and he is currently laughing at this thread. See his posts

 

[ZeoVGM]

What evidence is there that Zhuge knows anything other than his own feelings about the digital sales of D2?

It's literally his job to cover the digital games market and he has a long history of doing so?

You do know he's not some random guy on Twitter who people are linking to for the first time, right? He's also not the only one who is laughing at this thread.

 

[Deku Tree]

It's literally his job to cover the digital games market and he has a long history of doing so?

You do know he's not some random guy on Twitter who people are linking to for the first time, right? He's also not the only one who is laughing at this thread.

Yes I know he has been tweeting a lot about game sales and for a long time and he seems to have access to NPD data. And the rest of it.

He posted a guess of the digital physical split and I was asking a question. What is the evidence that he knows digital numbers?

 

[The Lamonster]

I am thinking PC version sales are going to be surprisingly good.

But since it's through Blizzard, will we ever even see those numbers?

 

[UltimaPooh]

Everyone is waiting for the superior version.

 

[Cranster]

I'm not surprised, considering how overhyped and disapointing the first one was the sequek was bound to see a huge dip in sales.

https://twitter.com/ZhugeEX/status/918936661295337472

1.3 million is a huge number, but to put it into perspective Halo 3 had 1.1 million CCU at launch and that was a single console release. Destiny 2 should be doing twice that if it was better than Halo 3.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Yes I know he has been tweeting a lot about game sales and for a long time and he seems to have access to NPD data. And the rest of it.

He posted a guess of the digital physical split and I was asking a question. What is the evidence that he knows digital numbers?

Go ask him on Twitter.

 

[gatti-man]

Ahem, sorry but, from how Joseph Staten talked about this, it was clear for everyone the space they showed would be playable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9YoJjdEBv8

I'm a Halo gamer since the beginning, so I know Bungie always made their skybox with real geometry rather than 2D pictures, but in Halo, they never told it would be playable terrain, just it was real landscape geometry.

A lot of people, including me to be honest, were blown away went he said it was all playable if you ran uout of the demo they showed, because it would have been insane for Bungie to create such a wonderful engine.

Even people who were there during the presentation thought it would be playable space, and they talked about this in articles. Content isn't key sorry. Maybe you understood from the get go it would be not playable, and read though the lines, but most people didn't.

It would be dishonest to say Bungie didn't lie about all of this, as people were making expectation based on everything they said and they didn't correct anything to be sure people wouldn't expect too much.

But I don't think they lied on purpose. They were just really excited about their game, which is understandable, and talk a bit too much about the things they really wanted to bring to us.



Then you may have missed a lot of videos, or you may not remember everything:

- Jupiter & Taken King Vista from E3 Gameplay trailer
- Taken King Dreadnaught space in their second official vidoc, used as add
- House of Wolf social space in the PS4 official trailer
- House of Wolf content from the Destiny 1 reveal trailer
- Destiny 2 European Dead Zone in the reveal trailer of Destiny

Again, I don't think it's fair to blame Bungie about this, which could be considered as lies, but I think it's understandable that people and players would feel bad when they saw that content for vanilla Destiny showed in trailer to only be sell later, not matter the stories about the development of the game being bad, as DLC.

That's hardly bait and switch and the post I replied to said it was all in one focused trailer even stuff in D2. Many things get cut and moved. HoW is dlc that was sold in a package at launch so that's fair game as far as my opinion goes. Also these are ultra early videos for stuff for ttk. Basically everyone complaining and saying Bungie lied are twisting words and being purposely obtuse about the way games are developed.

Do people scream when early trailers for movies have footage not seen in the actual movie? No. Because it's a process. It would be a lie if marketing trailers for launch had things not included in the launch package. HoW was available for purchase at launch. The other stuff is ultra early stuff. So now devs should just say and share nothing basically to prevent these people from nitpicking them to death. Pretty sad.

 

[ZeoVGM]

1.3 million is a huge number, but to put it into perspective Halo 3 had 1.1 million CCU at launch and that was a single console release. Destiny 2 should be doing twice that if it was better than Halo 3.

Destiny 2 should be doing 2.2 million CCU instead of 1.3 because... reasons?

Where is your logic that it should be doubling Halo 3? That doesn't makes sense at all. You're setting your own personal expectations based on nothing.

 

[JDB]

1.3 million is a huge number, but to put it into perspective Halo 3 had 1.1 million CCU at launch and that was a single console release. Destiny 2 should be doing twice that if it was better than Halo 3.

Did Halo 3 actually show proper live numbers? I vaguely remember it actually showing the number of unique players in a certain timeframe instead of peak population. I might be mixing it up with something else, though. @Fyrewulff help a brother out.

 

[FyreWulff]

Did Halo 3 actually show proper live numbers? I vaguely remember it actually showing the number of unique players in a certain timeframe instead of peak population. I might be mixing it up with something else, though. @Fyrewulff help a brother out.

It showed the total unique users as processed by the stats server in the past hour from each game recorded, not the number of people actually actively sitting in the lobby/playing in a game/searching.

ex if 5000 unique players played one game in the first 15 minutes of the hour, then for some reason 4000 of them immediately signed off and another new set of 1000 unique players played 3 games for the rest of that hour, the counter would say 6,000 people were in the playlist even though there was only 2000 people recently active. The only numbers directly comparable were the 24 hour total UUs which were available on their website.

Reach showed actual live numbers, updated every few minutes I think?

This was a result of how much money and the technology Bungie was given at the time to track players. Now they have sub 1 second update capability for the game API with Destiny and Destiny 2. In the Halo 2 era they had to purge old game stats only a month-ish after being recorded to make room for new matches being recorded.


Fun fact: Halo 4 used Azure as it's playlist backend as an early use (or testbed, if you want to say that) for the service. The article about it on MS's technology blog was written when almost nobody knew what Azure was. Halo 5 wasn't the first Halo game to use Azure

 

[Orthogonal]

You seem awfully sure of this.

Its simple math really. Just think how big the increase in sales of D2 digital over D1 digital would have to be to cover a 50% drop in physical.

Its not possible.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Destiny 2 should be doing 2.2 million CCU instead of 1.3 because... reasons?

Where is your logic that it should be doubling Halo 3? That doesn't makes sense at all. You're setting your own personal expectations based on nothing.

The logic is infallible. Two consoles is twice as many as one, therefore, it should sell twice as much. I'm sure it applies to all games.

Its simple math really. Just think how big the increase in sales of D2 digital over D1 digital would have to be to cover a 50% drop in physical.

Its not possible.

You are replying to someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

 

[JinjoUnchained]

Here's my speculation. Maybe this is a consequence of Destiny's Games As A Service model. That is, because the original game split its content up over 3 years with a major release each year, then the release of a "new game" didn't seem as big of a deal.

I'm not saying Destiny 2 is "not a real sequel" or anything like that, but, rather, wondering if the release schedule tempered consumer excitement.

 

[Deku Tree]

Its simple math really. Just think how big the increase in sales of D2 digital over D1 digital would have to be to cover a 50% drop in physical.

Its not possible.

Do you realize your arguing with someone who “knows things” about sales and who has already said “believe” in this thread about the exact same thing.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Do you realize your arguing with someone who “knows things” about sales and who has already said “believe” in this thread about the exact same thing.

I don’t know anything. That poster is probably right. It was a convincing argument that was presented. Can’t argue with math.

 

[tearsintherain]

To me it just says that digital sales are now more important than ever and not having that data available is making sales analysis extremely difficult. Some games sell 30% digital, some sell wildly more and how are you supposed to guess what is what.

All we really know is Destiny 2 retail sold ~1.35m physical copies in the USA in Sept 2017, they had 1.3m concurrent worldwide users the first week of release across two platforms, and with those two numbers I can't really make any more data that isn't just a wild guess pulled out of my ass.

Fortunately activision is a public company and their next earnings call is on Nov 2nd, 2017 and they should release more concrete numbers on sales at that event. By then they will also have a week of PC sales data under their belt? Although the Nov conf call probably only applies to July-Sept so Oct data may not be included, not sure?

 

[FyreWulff]

Here's my speculation. Maybe this is a consequence of Destiny's Games As A Service model. That is, because the original game split its content up over 3 years with a major release each year, then the release of a "new game" didn't seem as big of a deal.

I'm not saying Destiny 2 is "not a real sequel" or anything like that, but, rather, wondering if the release schedule tempered consumer excitement.

Or maybe people should just wait for the full sales report by Activision at the end of their year where we can compare 1:1 instead of comparing numbers against each other that have different sets of asterisks. Until then people are reading the numbers they want to and trotting out old moldy Destiny 1 posts as a bonus.

Since they're a publically traded company, er, not telling the truth in that report is quite illegal. If they attempt to massage the numbers, it'll be pretty easy to un-massage them.


At this point, Destiny 1 was on 4 platforms with 2 of them (360 and PS3) being super physical userbases.

At this point, Destiny is on 2 platforms, with a 3rd releasing very shortly, so we're not sure how many people are waiting out the PC version, and all 3 of it's current platforms are heavily digital sales, and the pending platform is almost going to be purely digital.

 

[Wiped89]

Digital is all well and good but the sales can't be seen as anything other than a disappointment.

Franchises are supposed to grow with each release, especially one in only its second installment.

Even if you decide that every single initial sale below the level of Destiny 1 has been replaced with digital this time (not likely tbh), then that would still only put it level with the first game. That is not encouraging for the health or future of the franchise and that is why people are rightly concerned at the sales figures. The franchise should have grown since the first game but it hasn't.

I don't have any stake in this fight since I don't play Destiny but have nothing against those that do, I just wanted to point this out for the 'but digital so it's fine' crowd.

 

[sinkfla87]

It's not that strange. Because a lot of game companies just mimic the last big success. Like how Bioware is making Anthem due to D1 success. Or how all Ubisoft games are going to be influenced by the Division.

Having something you don't like become very popular or profitable means more investment in games, sure, but often in games you have no interest in playing.

It's not zero sum, but there is some substitution.

There's truth in what you're saying, and as a musician who has grown up through the "fads" these things can be comparable however I don't believe the existence of copycat games is a curtain call (GET IT?!) for the new and creative. It might sound like a dumb analogy but I think it works:

Nirvana gets big, major labels want bands that sound like Nirvana. Fucking backstreet boys get big, every industry mogul wants a boy band on their label. Easy money. Truth is, there was still good music (I like Nirvana, this is aimed more at boy bands lol) and there will always be good music during different waves of popularity. This scenario applies to film as well. They might not all be Blockbusters and sure there will be copycats but...

The popularity and survival of a game like Destiny does not mean that a game like Cuphead cannot prosper. These two things can be successful simultaneously so all of the venom directed at Bungie just seems like a wasted effort. Why should Destiny fail? Because the endgame is currently a little shitty even though you get a lot more play time than most games to get there? Is it because there's microtransactions? Even though these microtransactions are completely frivolous, not gameplay related and contain items that can be acquired through playing anyway? What precedent is Destiny 2's success setting here? Because I'm seeing a lot of games on all platforms that are NOTHING like Destiny prospering. Maybe people should invest more time and attention in the games they like and the games they want to succeed, rather than trying to take down the "GOLIATH" like a bunch of Internet Davids with a broken sling. THAT is how you will see more creative diversity in gaming.

 

[JDB]

If D2 had higher concurrent player numbers right after launch than D1 then why are people so convinced it sold a ton less? Obviously it doesn't get you close to the whole picture, but surely it at least has to be close, right?

 

[Cuburt]

People are still reaching to claim the bulk of the sales were digital? This is the only game I've seen that so many people so thoroughly believe that narrative in the face of low physical sales.

Seems more plausible that people bought into Bungie's first post-Halo game's hype and the mixed reviews tell me a lot of people didn't get what they wanted/expected so they passed on the sequel. As a person who is all digital and would love for digital sales to overtake physical, I have seen no evidence that any AAA game on a console would have over half of the audience buy digitally which means no deals and no ability to resell. Convenience of digital just hasn't had that drastic of a shift in the last couple years.

 

[thepenguin55]

It’s weird because day 1 sales are such a small piece of the puzzle with games like this

 

[///PATRIOT]

Angry Joe review was right.

 

[Obliterator]

Destiny 2 will not be under 40% digital.

It's very very likely going to be 50%+

 

[Strakt]

If D2 had higher concurrent player numbers right after launch than D1 then why are people so convinced it sold a ton less? Obviously it doesn't get you close to the whole picture, but surely it at least has to be close, right?

Because people only see what they want to see. People have this weird mentality that if a game that they personally don't like has worse numbers but is still successful, then overall its "karma" or a "bad game". People also don't take into account that Destiny 1 was out on 4 platforms, and Destiny 2 had a bunch of digital sales + isn't even out yet on one platform. Not saying that it sold higher than D1, just saying that people ignore the fact that Destiny 2 is still a successful game and act like the game is hanging on by a thread. Some people here care more about sales numbers than Activision themselves. I guess its a weird fetish of theirs.

 

[Freshmaker]

Im assuming the same drop off on the digital side +/- 10%... wow

Could be a lot of people waiting for PC version... not many are willing to spend $60 twice.

I wonder if that HDR patch will encourage a second look by some. Always seemed really cheap to omit that from the console versions with a vague promise of it coming at some point eventually.

 

[TerryLee81]

Maybe lots of people bought into the hype before D1 came out.

And maybe lots of people got dissapointed by what D1 actually was when it released and therefore didn't buy the second one.

 

[Orthogonal]

Do you realize your arguing with someone who “knows things” about sales and who has already said “believe” in this thread about the exact same thing.

You are replying to someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

Well, all right then. Numbers should be fun. If digital did make up the shortfall it would be a staggering growth in digital share distribution.


The OP implied that D2 digital share was mid-30's%, but for what Cosmo is implying, digital would have to be more like 50+%.

 

[MrMephistoX]

Well, all right then. Numbers should be fun. If digital did make up the shortfall it would be a staggering growth in digital share distribution.

Wouldn’t actually surprise me:



https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017...lot-bigger-and-less-physical-than-we-thought/

 

[VanCityGamer]

It's too bad that sales are down. Destiny 2 is an excellent game and a big improvement over the first one IMO. That said, I only play the single player stuff and Strike missions.

 

[kraspkibble]

i'm not worried about it. the game is fun imo and as long as there is a healthy player base i'm happy. the expansions will hopefully improve the game. i'll be getting it on PC so i am little worried about finding people on there to do nightfalls/raids but it's cool if i just stick to the solo stuff and that's what i've been doing in D2 for 90% of it.

 

[ToLateToLove]

I bought Destiny in 2014 because lack of games. Now? Not so much.

 

[entremet]

Destiny seems like a True Fans type of game. It does not seem huge mass market franchise.

The people who love it, really love it. But it doesn't seem to be gaining new fans.

 

[Scrawnton]

That’s hardly bait and switch and the post I replied to said it was all in one focused trailer even stuff in D2. Many things get cut and moved. HoW is dlc that was sold in a package at launch so that’s fair game as far as my opinion goes. Also these are ultra early videos for stuff for ttk. Basically everyone complaining and saying Bungie lied are twisting words and being purposely obtuse about the way games are developed.

Do people scream when early trailers for movies have footage not seen in the actual movie? No. Because it’s a process. It would be a lie if marketing trailers for launch had things not included in the launch package. HoW was available for purchase at launch. The other stuff is ultra early stuff. So now devs should just say and share nothing basically to prevent these people from nitpicking them to death. Pretty sad.

The problem is they showed and said all this awesome stuff, didn’t deliver on it at launch and hid that fact up until release and proceeded to give us a lackluster vanilla experience (from a shear mass of content perspective) and proceeded to sell us that content that they advertise the main game having as expansions down the road. It was insanely messed up and wrong of them to do.

They weren’t up front about any of it. They had all this content in their reveal trailers and when the game released it was no where to be seen... until expansions started to hit. If you go back to those first few reveal trailers and realize it cost hundreds of dollars to buy into that promise, then you will see how messed up it was and why the sales dropped from 1 to 2.

 

[Trace]

Destiny seems like a True Fans type of game. It does not seem huge mass market franchise.

The people who love it, really love it. But it doesn't seem to be gaining new fans.

It's literally one of the biggest gaming franchises of all time. Like project whatever you want on the game, but at least be correct about it.

 

[Aselith]

I think having D1 on PS360 helped it a lot

It's literally one of the biggest gaming franchises of all time. Like project whatever you want on the game, but at least be correct about it.

Top 1000 easily

 

[Theorry]

Destiny seems like a True Fans type of game. It does not seem huge mass market franchise.

The people who love it, really love it. But it doesn't seem to be gaining new fans.

Wut? Its the most played game on PS4 and Xbox One for a month now.

 

[DaleinCalgary]

Everyone is waiting for the superior version.

GOTY edition?

 

[Obliterator]

Destiny seems like a True Fans type of game. It does not seem huge mass market franchise.

It's going to be one of the best selling games of the year. Like one of the top.

If Destiny isn't mass market what game is?