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[okenny]

Ubisoft absolutely nailed the casual market this gen. Their DS, Wii and now Kinect production is a pure money print. And if that means bigger budgets for their AAA games, I'm all for it.

...throw enough things out there and something's bound to stick.

 

[FrankT]

More Pachter. Believes Sony will be first to move on price at $50;

PS3 to Cut Price First This Year, says Pachter
Posted January 14, 2011 by James Brightman

Reacting to the December and year-end NPD data, Wedbush Securities analyst Michael Pachter has noted that 2010 wasn't so hot, both starting and ending on a weak note. He cites the precipitous drop in revenues from the music genre, the Wii and DS software sales, each of which "were down 20% in 2010, in spite of substantial growth in each console’s respective installed base," and finally he blames the stubborn hardware price points.

"We believe that sticky price points for the three major consoles triggered a 5% overall decline in console hardware unit sales for 2010. Handhelds performed even worse, with unit sales down 25%, contributing to continuing software weakness," he said. Pachter said that the platform holders will all need to cut prices, and he sees Sony doing so first.

"We fully expect each of the three consoles to be offered at lower prices in 2011, with Sony likely leading the way as its manufacturing costs continue to decline. A $50 price cut should be sufficient to drive 5% software sales growth; and, coupled with a resurgence in handheld software sales and an easy comparison for music sales, we think that overall software sales growth could hit low double digits in 2011," he stated.

The combination of a price cut and a robust exclusive games lineup could do wonders for the PS3 platform in 2011.

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/ps3-to-cut-price-first-this-year-says-pachter/

 

[Doodis]

I would imagine you're right, I think my skepticism (and probably others) comes from the fact that there have been so many times over the last few years that Sony has blamed their low sales on "supply constraint" while in the meantime most of us were in stores climbing over piles of unsold PS3s to get into the gaming aisles. I can't think of anytime in the past that MS has done that and what other explaination can there really be for their sales to fall short of what so many were expecting?

And what was everyone expecting? That they would sell more 360s than any other month in history? Because they did that. Microsoft doesn't have any reason to give an "explanation" for their performance. They had an amazing month.

 

[Lonely1]

Terrible for Move software. :/

That being said, move at $50 would made me very happy.

 

[Zoe]

Terrible for Move software. :/

That being said, move at $50 would made me very happy.

I think the $50 up there is only talking about the console. I don't think Sony would cut the Move price in half.

 

[FrankT]

And what was everyone expecting? That they would sell more 360s than any other month in history? Because they did that. Microsoft doesn't have any reason to give an "explanation" for their performance. They had an amazing month.

That's about it. I believe GAF had it around 2.3 maybe and between Pachter and Divinch the average probably about the same. Could they have done 400k more or so. Maybe, but we'lll never know. Regardless, clearly the best year ever and month as well. The more interesting thing is how will Jan and Feb turn out since they say all this should clear up in 30-60 days. IIRC 2010 was the best start of the year they had ever had as well so these numbers should be interesting to compare YoY.

 

[Megadragon15]

Terrible for Move software. :/

That being said, move at $50 would made me very happy.

Aren't standalone Move controllers already at $50? Are you talking about the Move Bundle?

 

[thirty]

No one with a clue outside of console fanboy wankery considered Kinect and Move in direct competition with one another, or that Move would come anywhere close competing with Kinect even in a vague way. The fact that MS keeps harping on it just comes off as immature as hell.

how are they not in direct competition? they were both meant to expand their markets and take market from wii to further this generation and lay down the groundwork for the next. MS succeeded, sony not so much.

 

[Lonely1]

Aren't standalone Move controllers already at $50? Are you talking about the Move Bundle?

Yes, the bundle.

 

[clashfan]

Sony needs a $100 price cut, $50 its too little...

 

[FrankT]

how are they not in direct competition? they were both meant to expand their markets and take market from wii to further this generation and lay down the groundwork for the next. MS succeeded, sony not so much.

Point is moot anyways considering that was a Pachter comment not MS.

Sony needs a $100 price cut, $50 its too little...

Maybe, maybe not. $199 slim-slim would be a good thing for the fall however. If they drop it $50 early on I'd say it's going to be met with $50 in the fall by MS.

 

[Vinci]

how are they not in direct competition? they were both meant to expand their markets and take market from wii to further this generation and lay down the groundwork for the next. MS succeeded, sony not so much.

Move was never considered to be an entirely new platform. It was just an option, like getting cheese on your burger. It was marketed as that. Options, as much as we love them, are generally going to be failures unless the company goes out of its way to make them important. When MS said that they consider Kinect 'as their next platform,' they were not kidding. You don't spend half a billion dollars marketing an option.

Kinect isn't an option, it's the point.

 

[Frillen]

Does DJmeister work at PD or something? So much energy spend just to defend GT5.

13 to 1!? Ouch Sony.

 

[Lonely1]

Move was never considered to be an entirely new platform. It was just an option, like getting cheese on your burger. It was marketed as that. Options, as much as we love them, are generally going to be failures unless the company goes out of its way to make them important. When MS said that they consider Kinect 'as their next platform,' they were not kidding. You don't spend half a billion dollars marketing an option.

Kinect isn't an option, it's the point.

So, Sony failed to position the Move. Point remains.

 

[clashfan]

So, Sony failed to position the Move. Point remains.

word

 

[Vinci]

So, Sony failed to position the Move. Point remains.

It's equivalent to the joking we did about the Balance Board outselling the PS3 for a while. Yes, it's fun, but in realistic terms it should never have happened.

But yes, Sony failed to position it. But we've never really seen anything quite like what MS is doing with the Kinect. It's not just a matter of positioning, it's a matter of doing something somewhat unthinkable before now.

 

[Mrbob]

So if the top 2 Kinect titles sold two million (over a million each according to MS) as a baseline, then that means the top 2 move titles sold 155K combined if we are looking at 13:1. Not good at all.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

No one with a clue outside of console fanboy wankery considered Kinect and Move in direct competition with one another, or that Move would come anywhere close competing with Kinect even in a vague way. The fact that MS keeps harping on it just comes off as immature as hell.

E3 2009 all the way through September 2010, I think lots of people believed quite differently. Move isn't exactly selling poorly, but if Move-exclusive software doesn't sell well, and tacking it onto existing/upcoming dual analog games does little to boost sales, there won't be much incentive for devs to spend time on implementing it in future titles. Sony needs more Move-exclusive software like Sports Champions or The Fight to show what it can really do.

 

[[Nintex]]

Dropping the price will boost sales for a while. But once that price is slashed there's no going back. "If it's $200 now it'll certainly drop to $99 next year" sort of thing. That works when you plan to phase out your console but since the 10 year plan is only 5 years underway I expect Sony to focus on their software and 'value' bundles first.

 

[LosDaddie]

Having read this entire thread now, there are at least 2 ardent GT5 defenders here. LOL. Is it really that difficult to admit the game underperformed? The game was heralded as the real console-seller for Sony.

No one with a clue outside of console fanboy wankery considered Kinect and Move in direct competition with one another, or that Move would come anywhere close competing with Kinect even in a vague way. The fact that MS keeps harping on it just comes off as immature as hell.

Console fanboy wankery indeed!

 

[Chinner]

so basically, kinect is a success and dance central and wii sports has already sold a million copies. christ. im not sure if thats good or just depressing.

 

[Megadragon15]

It's equivalent to the joking we did about the Balance Board outselling the PS3 for a while. Yes, it's fun, but in realistic terms it should never have happened.

But yes, Sony failed to position it. But we've never really seen anything quite like what MS is doing with the Kinect. It's not just a matter of positioning, it's a matter of doing something somewhat unthinkable before now.

Do you approve of Sony constantly belittling Kinect like "Pew, pew, pew", "Yaybuttons" or http://www.destructoid.com/sony-kinect-is-mostly-a-bunch-of-tech-problems-188605.phtml ? Even Sony considers Kinect competition to Move.

 

[apana]

Considering sales of Donkey Kong Country Returns, I hope Nintendo makes Diddy Kong Racing and has it out for 2011 holidays. I can easily see that doing 3 million in lifetime sales. I wonder how Mickey will do in the coming months. Will bad word of mouth hurt sales or will Disney drown out all the noise in a marketing deluge?

 

[Saren is Bad]

so basically, kinect is a success and dance central and wii sports has already sold a million copies. christ. im not sure if thats good or just depressing.

If it makes you happier, think off all the people who said "LOL M$ WILL CONSTRAIN SUPPLY FOR DEMAND." 8 million shipped says otherwise.

 

[Vinci]

E3 2009 all the way through September 2010, I think lots of people believed quite differently. Move isn't exactly selling poorly, but if Move-exclusive software doesn't sell well, and tacking it onto existing/upcoming dual analog games does little to boost sales, there won't be much incentive for devs to spend time on implementing it in future titles. Sony needs more Move-exclusive software like Sports Champions or The Fight to show what it can really do.

And this is exactly the reason why there's a vast difference between Kinect and Move. Move was never going to become some huge thing that every developer worked on. Anyone who believed that was kidding themselves. Peripherals just don't ordinarily get any significant level of support, and they sure as hell don't get a lot of exclusive support. I mean, the best-selling peripheral of all time is probably the Balance Board... How many games even used it?

What MS is doing right now is unprecedented, and because of their unique position in the market.

Do you approve of Sony constantly belittling Kinect like "Pew, pew, pew", "Yaybuttons" or http://www.destructoid.com/sony-kinect-is-mostly-a-bunch-of-tech-problems-188605.phtml ? Even Sony considers Kinect competition to Move.

I've already called Sony braindead in this thread. I shouldn't have to repeat it.

 

[Opiate]

Does Sony have the financial wiggle room to drop the price of the PS3 100 dollars? Sony made a grand total of 41 million dollars in their network services division in Q1 + Q2 of 2010 (Q3 data arrives later this month). They have just reached the point where they are treading water -- a 100 dollar price cut will almost assuredly drop them back down to losses again.

Let's say they cut the price of the PS3 by 100 dollars, and sell 10 Million units. That's a loss of revenue of 1 billion dollars. If they were going to earn a profit of, say, 500 million next year (not likely, but let's run with it), then a price cut would drop them to a 500 million dollar loss all by itself.

Sony has to stop bleeding at some point. I think the best they can do is a 50 dollar price drop and hope to maintain their economic stabilization. Recouping even a portion of those massive losses is likely out the window: Sony once again has to choose between falling further behind the competition or spending in order to keep up (they chose to spend last time. It cost a lot of money, but they kept up, at least with Microsoft).

 

[ShockingAlberto]

so basically, kinect is a success and dance central and wii sports has already sold a million copies. christ. im not sure if thats good or just depressing.

Wii Sports is slightly over a million copies.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

E3 2009 all the way through September 2010, I think lots of people believed quite differently. Move isn't exactly selling poorly, but if Move-exclusive software doesn't sell well, and tacking it onto existing/upcoming dual analog games does little to boost sales, there won't be much incentive for devs to spend time on implementing it in future titles. Sony needs more Move-exclusive software like Sports Champions or The Fight to show what it can really do.

This is pretty much it. Sony needed to have a positive start to convince consumers that it's worth investing into and for third parties to have a strong reason to support it. Now, it seems, Sony will need to spend a lot more to get that Move-related support which might have come more easily, if not effectively for free, had they executed well in the beginning. I'll consider Move a dead end (and a poor investment) if they don't push the hell out of it come E3.

 

[Kenka]

So, if I can summarize everything said in this page, it would be like :

• Sony fucked up/deliberately gave the market to Microsoft or

• Microsoft made a genius move (lack of smilies damn you)

In both cases, everybody admits that fanboys desperately try to defend Sony while the rest of us can freely make fun of them.

You know why it's fun making jokes about Sony ? Those guys never admit that they wrong. Never. They keep thinking that what they do is right and that if someone does better, then they are to be blamed.

Just delicious. These Sony guys are just disconnected. It's not worth supporting them fanboys.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Move was a horrible mistake on Sonys part IMO. 3 months in and its already an also ran.

 

[kswiston]

Wii Sports is slightly over a million copies.

Pretty sure that was a joke. Kinect Sports = Wii Sports clone

 

[Lonely1]

So, if I can summarize everything said in this page, it would be like :

• Sony fucked up/deliberately gave the market to Microsoft or

• Microsoft made a genius move (lack of smilies damn you)

In both cases, everybody admits that fanboys desperately try to defend Sony while the rest of us can freely make fun of them.

You know why it's fun making jokes about Sony ? Those guys never admit that they wrong. Never. They keep thinking that what they do is right and that if someone does better, then they are to be blamed.

Just delicious. These Sony guys are just disconnected. It's not worth supporting them fanboys.

Hey, the Ps3 still has great exclusive games.

 

[FrankT]

If it makes you happier, think off all the people who said "LOL M$ WILL CONSTRAIN SUPPLY FOR DEMAND." 8 million shipped says otherwise.

Heh, totally forgot about that stuff.

 

[Kagari]

Does Sony have the financial wiggle room to drop the price of the PS3 100 dollars? Sony made a grand total of 41 million dollars in their network services division in Q1 + Q2 of 2010 (Q3 data arrives later this month).

Let's say they cut the price of the PS3 by 100 dollars, and sell 10 Million units. That's a loss of revenue of 1 billion dollars. If they were going to earn a profit of, say, 500 million next year (not likely, but let's run with it), then a price cut would drop them to a 500 million dollar loss all by itself.

Sony has to stop bleeding at some point. I think the best they can do is a 50 dollar price drop and hope to maintain their economic stabilization. Recouping even a portion of those massive losses is likely out the window: Sony once again has to choose between falling further behind the competition or spending in order to keep up (they chose to spend last time. It cost a lot of money, but they kept up, at least with Microsoft).

By September of this year, more than likely they'll drop to $199 before PSP2 comes out.

 

[Saint Gregory]

And what was everyone expecting? That they would sell more 360s than any other month in history? Because they did that. Microsoft doesn't have any reason to give an "explanation" for their performance. They had an amazing month.

That's about it. I believe GAF had it around 2.3 maybe and between Pachter and Divinch the average probably about the same. Could they have done 400k more or so. Maybe, but we'lll never know. Regardless, clearly the best year ever and month as well. The more interesting thing is how will Jan and Feb turn out since they say all this should clear up in 30-60 days. IIRC 2010 was the best start of the year they had ever had as well so these numbers should be interesting to compare YoY.

Their December was amazing and I don't mean to sound like I'm downplaying it but in November they edged out the Wii and last month both the Wii and PS3 averaged around double the previous month (PS3 a little more, Wii a little less) so I would have expected the 360 to do more than half a million over their November numbers, especially considering the momentum they were building.

 

[apana]

So, if I can summarize everything said in this page, it would be like :

• Sony fucked up/deliberately gave the market to Microsoft or

• Microsoft made a genius move (lack of smilies damn you)

In both cases, everybody admits that fanboys desperately try to defend Sony while the rest of us can freely make fun of them.

You know why it's fun making jokes about Sony ? Those guys never admit that they wrong. Never. They keep thinking that what they do is right and that if someone does better, then they are to be blamed.

Just delicious. These Sony guys are just disconnected. It's not worth supporting them fanboys.

They just sold less consoles, they didn't kill anybody.

 

[Vinci]

So, if I can summarize everything said in this page, it would be like :

• Sony fucked up/deliberately gave the market to Microsoft or

• Microsoft made a genius move (lack of smilies damn you)

Sony's fucked up more times this generation than SEGA did in its entire console manufacturing history. Yes, that's a LOT of fucking up. To make matters worse, they utterly bungled their #1 IP's appearance on their system. Bungled it. You know how an intelligent company handles its #1 IP? Look at MS and Halo. I hate MS, but they know how to handle the important stuff.

As for MS's genius move: It was genius. It was well-executed, and it removed them from non-existence for the entire market that Nintendo had gotten notice from. It was also enormously lucky, as it required the exact factors this generation produced to allow something like it to happen. But MS deserves a huge amount of props for recognizing the opportunity and taking advantage of it, yes.

 

[FrankT]

Their December was amazing and I don't mean to sound like I'm downplaying it but in November they edged out the Wii and last month both the Wii and PS3 averaged around double the previous month (PS3 a little more, Wii a little less) so I would have expected the 360 to do more than half a million over their November numbers, especially considering the momentum they were building.

Most did as that was the entire point. It simply didn't happen, supply or whatever reason anyone wants to assign to it. Personally, I thought they had enough stock for somewhere over 2M.

Does Sony have the financial wiggle room to drop the price of the PS3 100 dollars? Sony made a grand total of 41 million dollars in their network services division in Q1 + Q2 of 2010 (Q3 data arrives later this month). They have just reached the point where they are treading water -- a 100 dollar price cut will almost assuredly drop them back down to losses again.

Let's say they cut the price of the PS3 by 100 dollars, and sell 10 Million units. That's a loss of revenue of 1 billion dollars. If they were going to earn a profit of, say, 500 million next year (not likely, but let's run with it), then a price cut would drop them to a 500 million dollar loss all by itself.

Sony has to stop bleeding at some point. I think the best they can do is a 50 dollar price drop and hope to maintain their economic stabilization. Recouping even a portion of those massive losses is likely out the window: Sony once again has to choose between falling further behind the competition or spending in order to keep up (they chose to spend last time. It cost a lot of money, but they kept up, at least with Microsoft).

Sony is great at squeezing costs out of their HW. Is it possible they could do another HW update and $100 cut. Maybe, but I would lean towards $50 at this point. Tough spot this year though because unlike 09 MS has one waiting at pretty much any point now closing in on 3 years without one. So any cut this time around will be a tougher sell if 360 and Wii do the same.

 

[Arpharmd B]

Sony dropping price would not only be a dumb move, it would do nothing because MS and and Nintendo could turn around and match it.

Sony needs to focus on making cash. Right now they have healthy sales. World wide they are pretty much selling 1:1 with 360 or very close to that. Move was a dud, but they still have plenty of software to sell in the coming year. Just accept the 3rd place position and focus on profitablilty at this point.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Are you really quibbing about a 2 point difference between Metacritic and PR? If the game's average had dropped to 85 I could see it, but I think your point is weak.

depends on if the 2 points drops the game out of the top 10 or not...

 

[plagiarize]

So, if I can summarize everything said in this page, it would be like :

• Sony fucked up/deliberately gave the market to Microsoft or

• Microsoft made a genius move (lack of smilies damn you)

In both cases, everybody admits that fanboys desperately try to defend Sony while the rest of us can freely make fun of them.

You know why it's fun making jokes about Sony ? Those guys never admit that they wrong. Never. They keep thinking that what they do is right and that if someone does better, then they are to be blamed.

Just delicious. These Sony guys are just disconnected. It's not worth supporting them fanboys.

it takes a console to underperform to EXPOSE that companies fanboys. if MS was doing terribly, some of the people that appear to be quite rational in this thread would be exposed as being 360 fanboys because they'd be making the same kind of rationalisations and doing the same kind of spinning some Sony fans are doing in this one.

don't think though that Microsoft's and Nintendo's fanboys aren't disconnected from reality though. it's just a coincidence that their version of reality has lined up with planet Earth temporarily.

that's why we can't spot the crazy ones amongst the ones that wouldn't contradict reality.

but they're there and there's no arguing that. there's nothing about Sony as a company that makes it attract loons... it's just their stumbling performance that exposes the loons that wear blue team colours.

 

[LittleJohnny]

Pretty sure that was a joke. Kinect Sports = Wii Sports clone

Comparing Kinect Sports to Wii Sports is like comparinng NBA 2K11 to playing real Basketball, especially when you play Beach Volleyball or Track & Field, man you can really pull a hamstring playing these LOL.

 

[Opiate]

By September of this year, more than likely they'll drop to $199 before PSP2 comes out.

It's possible. I think 50 dollars is also possible.

I just keep thinking, "Sony can't keep spending to compete, can they?" Every single time, I figure it's the smart move to put your head down, catch your breath, and get ready for next time. They've already lost so much money, I think to myself. Surely, at some point, they will be willing to concede market share in order to recoup losses.

But every time they have approached profitability, they keep pushing themselves right back in to the red. So perhaps I'll be wrong. However, I do think Sony will at least want to tread water (i.e. they aren't making much money, but they aren't losing much, either) and I think that's plausible with a 50 dollar price cut, but not 100.

All of this is speculation. My estimates could be completely overturned by the financial report coming later this month.

 

[plagiarize]

Sony dropping price would not only be a dumb move, it would do nothing because MS and and Nintendo could turn around and match it.

Sony needs to focus on making cash. Right now they have healthy sales. World wide they are pretty much selling 1:1 with 360 or very close to that. Move was a dud, but they still have plenty of software to sell in the coming year. Just accept the 3rd place position and focus on profitablilty at this point.

if they would make more money by dropping $50, whatever other impact it would have shouldn't be of concern to them. i think they very well might do better at $250 even if they force MS and Nintendo to drop price as well, and even if that means they lose further ground in the console wars.

console wars are great for fanboys and shareholder meetings, but really not much else.

 

[[Nintex]]

Does Sony have the financial wiggle room to drop the price of the PS3 100 dollars? Sony made a grand total of 41 million dollars in their network services division in Q1 + Q2 of 2010 (Q3 data arrives later this month).

Let's say they cut the price of the PS3 by 100 dollars, and sell 10 Million units. That's a loss of revenue of 1 billion dollars. If they were going to earn a profit of, say, 500 million next year (not likely, but let's run with it), then a price cut would drop them to a 500 million dollar loss all by itself.

Sony has to stop bleeding at some point. I think the best they can do is a 50 dollar price drop and hope to maintain their economic stabilization. Recouping even a portion of those massive losses is likely out the window: Sony once again has to choose between falling further behind the competition or spending in order to keep up (they chose to spend last time. It cost a lot of money, but they kept up, at least with Microsoft).

They'll continue to spend because they can't risk to fall further behind now. I think they need to find some new partners to work with to get some new ideas. Maybe work closer with Google on future products or something. They could also try and take on the 3DS in Japan. In short, Sony needs to pick their battles, hire new people and start to do things right. They simply can't do 'everything' at once because 'everything' ends up being half assed in some way.

 

[Curufinwe]

Sony dropping price would not only be a dumb move, it would do nothing because MS and and Nintendo could turn around and match it.

Especially dumb given how weak the US dollar is.

 

[plagiarize]

They'll continue to spend because they can't risk to fall further behind now.

i disagree completely. making money is much more important than selling more consoles than Microsoft. they should do what will make them money and worry less about how many of the consumer dollars they control.

what's the point in having consumers spend 50% of their video gaming budget on Sony products if you aren't making any money that way? better to have them spending 30% of their money on your stuff at point where you make a profit.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

More significantly, in our view, the top two selling Kinect software titles outsold the top two Move titles by over 13:1

So if Kinect Sports and Dance Central sold at least 2m units then the top two Move titles combined sold just over 150,000.

I said wow.

 

[FrankT]

But every time they have approached profitability, they keep pushing themselves right back in to the red. So perhaps I'll be wrong. However, I do think Sony will at least want to tread water (i.e. they aren't making much money, but they aren't losing much, either) and I think that's plausible with a 50 dollar price cut, but not 100.

That is the risk no question, but bigger this time in the face of likely cuts from the rest.

With MS approaching ~15 million paid subs it has to be a place Sony is certainly looking at to make additional profit line.

 

[Patrick Klepek]

Patrick Klepek redemption official. I didn't think it would be this bad for GT, especially around holidays.

Oh, how I wish I had a time machine!