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[Meier]

I'm surprised that people were expecting much more out of Bayonetta. Those numbers are pretty in line with my expectations personally. I imagine it will have some decent legs as the price drops -- a lot of people are put off by the notion of $60 action games due to their length.

Bayonetta was all over the place, it was on twice a night on USA for quite a bit before and after it launched.

Yeah, my girlfriend actually mentioned the ad to me because of the La Roux song in the background (weird remix of it aside..). They did actually put some legitimate advertising dollars behind it. I don't think the commercial was very well done though.

 

[Future PhaZe]

I don't know that PG will be happy with those numbers. The money they put into advertising had to have been at least significant. 'Doin it for the thrill' ads were on various networks for a while which couldn't have been cheap.

 

[ShinNL]

The hell @ NMH2 numbers. *eats crow*

Now hopefully it will have legs (which fortunately is what Wii does a little bit better). But still.... those are some crappy numbers.

 

[Brimstone]

Speaking of Crimson Skies, what happened to this IP? I remember this game being really polished and quite a bit of fun. A sequel would make a great exclusive for the 360. Was it lost in the shuffle when FASA was closed?

Microsoft has the electronic rights.


Supposedly Steven Spielberg loved the PC version and explored the idea of making a Crimson Skies movie, but that never panned out. Now that Spielberg has a new movie studio maybe he'll reconsider doing a film.


It is a shame not even a new boardgame is being released. It was highly acclaimed.


I'm a bit suprised Microsoft hasn't gone out and acquired the full spectrum of rights to the Crimson Skies IP.

 

[Mafro]

[All] Dark Void - 22K

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I love the fact that Kamiya and Mikami are really trying to make some original experiences, but at some point they are going to have to go back to where it really began for both of them: Resident Evil, Resident Evil 2, and Devil May Cry.

I'm not saying to flat out try to make a spiritual successor to Resident Evil (DO WANT) but it's clear that Devil May Cry and Resident Evil were both games that had more mainstream appeal than LOL PN03, GODHAND, BAYONETTA design types (despite the quality of these titles).

I think Vanquish COULD be a step in the right direction for mainstream success considering that all signs point to it being a shooter right now.

Perhaps I'm a little ignorant on the subject, but as much as I'm a fanboy of Kamiya/Mikami it seems that Capcom up to now has been in the right when it comes to their dismissal of Clover studios. It's commendable that Mikami and Kamiya are making games that they really want to, but for visionaries like them it's hard to believe they couldn't make something awesome that would be appealing to a wider range of people.

The biggest frustration is the "what could have been" aspect of this whole thing. Other than the Bionic Commando (360 version) and Dark Void creations Capcom has been dead on this generation and their marketing power, as well as their framework engines in the hands of both of those guys would have been really terrific.

I don't think it helps that they have the poisonous Sega logo in all of their commercials and boxart.

And I agree that had Capcom published Bayonetta, it would've ran on Framework 1.0 (lowering dev costs), the PS3 version wouldn't have been hot garbage, and the trailers/demo would've shown off much more of a "cool" vibe instead of an "embarassing Japanophile" vibe. I still plan on picking it up eventually.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Good job 360 at beating the PS3 by a larger margin than most of GAF were willing to bet.

so does that mean the return of the king meme is officially retired?

 

[fatty]

The PS2 still had good numbers in Dec 09, didn't it? I'm thinking that the reason this month's numbers are so low is because it has been in short supply. Either stores are still awaiting for new shipments (just checking online and Walmart and Amazon are both out of stock) or Sony is quietly phasing them out, which I hope isn't the case.

I'm wanting to pick up an additional PS2 as a back-up so I'm hoping for one more price drop before they go out of production.

 

[the nightman cometh]

I'm really only interested in sales results as to how it effects which developers are going to make which games and who the has final say on the game. The console wars are all sound and fury signifying nothing.

This is why I'm very interested in what the future holds for Platinum games. Is there going to be a Bayonetta 2 or are the sales poor enough that this has been ruled out, which I think may be a good thing. Although, I am kind of worried that they are going to be pushed to make some fundamental changes in their next game (Vanquish?) to try to appeal to a wider audience which is almost always a disaster.

 

[SolarPowered]

The last leaked update for Marvel vs Capcom 2 PS2 was 250k. The final sales for both MvC1 and MvC2 for Dreamcast were 200k. Your barrier for success is a little too high me thinks.

Those numbers are surprising. I'd always pegged the MvC series as a 500K seller. Those numbers are also pretty damning, but I still think TvC can pull it off with time. TvC has only been out for a little over a week and it's sold 50K which is better than most people expected. That's also pretty good when you consider it was released on the same day as mass effect and in the midst of all the NSMBW/CoD hype that hasn't died down completly yet.

It'll do fine. If it only hits 150K that is still better than most people expected.

 

[Jaruru]

every new Wii owner is picking up
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
Wii Sport Resorts
Mario Kart Wii
Wii Fit Plus

it's almost a gaming combo

 

[Jinaar]

I hope games that do not do well the first 1-3 months can become full downloadable games on XBL and PSN. I think if a Bayonetta could get on in another 2 months for a decent $35-$40 downloadable game, it might be able to push more sales. Seeing SFIV as a downloadable so quickly on XBL just recently opened my eyes to this possibility. Give retailers the first 2 months or so, the make it downloadable.

 

[Archie]

I hope games that do not do well the first 1-3 months can become full downloadable games on XBL and PSN. I think if a Bayonetta could get on in another 2 months for a decent $35-$40 downloadable game, it might be able to push more sales. Seeing SFIV as a downloadable so quickly on XBL just recently opened my eyes to this possibility. Give retailers the first 2 months or so, the make it downloadable.

Street Fighter 4 was out for essentially a year before it became a downloadable Xbox game. I agree that DD gives a second wind to games that were overlooked the first time, but you won't get Bayonetta as a downloadable game in April.

 

[LosDaddie]

I really hope ME2 has long legs. BioWare deserves at least 3-4M sales

wow :lol

 

[Mael]

I hope games that do not do well the first 1-3 months can become full downloadable games on XBL and PSN. I think if a Bayonetta could get on in another 2 months for a decent $35-$40 downloadable game, it might be able to push more sales. Seeing SFIV as a downloadable so quickly on XBL just recently opened my eyes to this possibility. Give retailers the first 2 months or so, the make it downloadable.

So great to allow people to buy psn/xbl version of games at the same price as a new retail copy! :lol

 

[Dude Abides]

I don't think it helps that they have the poisonous Sega logo in all of their commercials and boxart.

Do you think that really turns people off? I would think that anyone who knows enough about gaming to have a negative reaction to the Sega logo would also be knoweldgeable enough to find out about games on an individual basis.

 

[Archie]

So great to allow people to buy psn/xbl version of games at the same price as a new retail copy! :lol

I'm not sure why that is so funny. New Steam games are regularly $50 and downloadable Xbox games match their MSRP (which I find absurd since most of the games are fairly old, but I digress).

 

[Mael]

I'm not sure why that is so funny. New Steam games are regularly $50 and downloadable Xbox games match their MSRP (which I find absurd since most of the games are fairly old, but I digress).

I find it funny because if no one is buying Bayonneta at retail for XX€, it's not gonna fly off the virtual shelf at XX€ :-/

 

[Archie]

Duly noted. I thought you were laughing at the notion of DD games being fully priced at MSRP, not Bayonetta in particular.

 

[jett]

:lol at dark void. Now THAT is a true bomba.

 

[Mael]

Duly noted. I thought you were laughing at the notion of DD games being fully priced at MSRP, not Bayonetta in particular.

I wasn't laughing at it here, but still it's pretty funny they expect people to shell the same dough for a digital and a retail release :lol
Hey if people want to be treated like cows to be milked, I'm not one to complain after all I DID buy the Conduit full price :lol

 

[WillyFive]

I really feel sorry for all those developers that won't be getting a paycheck from their games.

What's worse, it could all have been avoided by a slight change in strategy in marketing (actually marketing it).

 

[Dunlop]

er wrong thread...time for coffee

 

[yankeeforever2]

I will definately hit level 80 tonight, so to begin my new round of noob questions:

Conquest vs Frost Emblems..I actually only have 40 Conquest atm. When I hit 80 and can run heroics which give Frost Emblems(?), is there a conversion available or do I need to get at least another 5 conquest to get an item and then try to run only heroics for frost?

For the random dungeon of the day, at 80 does it put you in a regular or heroic or do you choose? I have about 20% until I level so I am debating holding off on the random until I ding.

Lastly my understanding is that the Dungeon finder will not allow you to queue for dungeons if you are undergeared? I don't want to be responsible for wiping group unecessarily.

I understand completely

 

[jmdajr]

too bad about bayonetta...(glad I bought it though)

oh well.... Just not mainstream enough or even enough hardcore fans out for it....

surprised about darksiders

 

[Dunlop]

I understand completely

lol, holy crap you're fast. I must have edited it in under a minute

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Do you think that really turns people off? I would think that anyone who knows enough about gaming to have a negative reaction to the Sega logo would also be knoweldgeable enough to find out about games on an individual basis.

Sega is still a household name, for better or for worse.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aside from Mario & Sonic (which is for all intents and purposes, a Mario game), Sega hasn't really had any core games turn into breakout hits this generation, despite several reviewing well (Condemned 1/2, Virtua Fighter 5, Mad World, Valkyria Chronicles, The Conduit, Bayonetta, The Club). The sales have been decent to downright bad.

Several of these games have been very well advertised, and still met with relative apathy. Yakuza 3, that Gladiator game from HVS, and Alien vs. Predator will probably join that club.

Even the Sonic games are largely carried by PAL sales.

Sega, as a publisher, has partnered with quite a few talented development houses with almost nothing huge to show for it, even though the quality line has been comparable to many other publishers.

I don't think it's outrageous to postulate that they've burned up quite a bit of goodwill with North American gamers over the past 15 years, and now they're paying the price.

If Alpha Protocol bombs (sub-200k would be disastrous considering the current market for WRPGs, particularly those with an action focus), I think the development community at large would be wise to steer clear of them.

 

[Mael]

that Gladiator game from HVS,

No, that one will join the ranks of the likes of Golden Axe:Beast Raiders
meaning the crappy games that bomb

 

[TehSw1tch]

:lol at dark void. Now THAT is a true bomba.

Bionic Commando still beats it. It sold slightly more, 27k, but there was a lot more going for it.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

I live in the US, and it certainly did.

Well the resemblances are even more uncanny then! I really expected Bayonetta to perform much better than Madworld, It's a much easier sell than that game! (Similar type of game as Devil May Cry compared to a game that is similar to God Hand, is black & white and ultra violent!)

 

[Sadist]

Kind of expected the TvsC number actually :lol

To bad about NMH 2, hopefully it will have some legs. Guess Europe needs to save this game. I thought Bayonetta would do better though. Not by much though.

 

[Canova]

too bad about bayonetta...(glad I bought it though)

oh well.... Just not mainstream enough or even enough hardcore fans out for it....

surprised about darksiders

Darksiders is a well-balanced game. It does not offer anything new, nor try to excel in any particular area, but it does well enough in all aspects in action adventure games; from combat, level design, straight-forward story with an EPIC cliffhanger ending, puzzles, exploration. Overall It's just a solid all-around game

 

[Sohter.Nura]

Sega really is in a pickle. Bayonetta did pretty well considering their other efforts, but I bet it didn't pan out like they thought it would, despite being a great game (i love it!).

So, their Wii games don't sell, their HD games don't sell that much better... their DS and PSP games aren't that hot in the west... what do they have left? :{

 

[Vinci]

I really feel sorry for all those developers that won't be getting a paycheck from their games.

What's worse, it could all have been avoided by a slight change in strategy in marketing (actually marketing it).

I think the failure in marketing with some of these titles is that someone, somewhere, made a decision to develop them at all. Some of them honestly have 'bomba' written all over them. That's not true in all cases, but certainly in some.

NMH2 likely didn't sell because most people didn't even know it was released. I haven't seen a damn thing about it outside of GAF.

 

[AceBandage]

Sega really is in a pickle. Bayonetta did pretty well considering their other efforts, but I bet it didn't pan out like they thought it would, despite being a great game (i love it!).

So, their Wii games don't sell, their HD games don't sell that much better... their DS and PSP games aren't that hot in the west... what do they have left? :{

Mario and Sonic

All they have to do now is let Nintendo develop it into a proper platformer and they have the first 200 million selling game.

 

[Mael]

Sega really is in a pickle. Bayonetta did pretty well considering their other efforts, but I bet it didn't pan out like they thought it would, despite being a great game (i love it!).

So, their Wii games don't sell, their HD games don't sell that much better... their DS and PSP games aren't that hot in the west... what do they have left? :{

Ok so now Europe is a part of Asia or something

 

[Rocksteady33]

Anyone got a recap of all the stuff not in the OP?

 

[AceBandage]

Anyone got a recap of all the stuff not in the OP?

Everything bombed.

 

[Vinci]

Mario and Sonic

All they have to do now is let Nintendo develop it into a proper platformer and they have the first 200 million selling game.

What I'm picturing is a horizontally split screen with a typical Mario level on top and a Sonic level on the bottom. There's a countdown... and THEY'RE OFF! Whoever finishes the level first gets a certain amount of points, combined with the number of coins/rings, combined with whatever the hell else you want to throw in as a score modifier. Basically, it'd be a competition between the two on their own terms.

Could even have it multiplayer with Luigi joining Mario (2-players) and Tails with Sonic (total of 4 players, like NSMB Wii).

 

[Mael]

What I'm picturing is a horizontally split screen with a typical Mario level on top and a Sonic level on the bottom. There's a countdown... and THEY'RE OFF! Whoever finishes the level first gets a certain amount of points, combined with the number of coins/rings, combined with whatever the hell else you want to throw in as a score modifier. Basically, it'd be a competition between the two on their own terms.

Could even have it multiplayer with Luigi joining Mario (2-players) and Tails with Sonic (total of 4 players, like NSMB Wii).

DS only then?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

So amidst all the discussion about Bayonetta and Mass Effect 2, I was very interested in EEDAR making the claim that Mass Effect 2 was, leaps and bounds, the best selling January release first month ever.

I only have data from January 05 onwards.

A list of every new release that broke 100k in January:

January 05 (pre-leak ban, figures posted on GAF):
Resident Evil 4 (GCN) ~300k
Zelda Minish Cap (GBA) ~220k
Mercenaries (Xbox) ~200k
Mercenaries (PS2) ~175k

January 06 (pre-leak ban, figures posted on GAF):
MVP 06 NCAA Baseball (PS2) ~100k

January 07 (post-leak ban, figures posted all over the internet):
Lost Planet (360) ~325k
WarioWare: Smooth Moves (Wii) ~200k

January 08 (post-leak ban, NPD public top 10; #10 cut off at 133k and no misc leaked figures had debuts over 100k):
Burnout Paradise (360) 144.1k
Mario and Sonic Beijing Olympics (DS) 133k

January 09 (" #10 cut off at 113k)
Skate 2 (360) 199k
Lord of the Rings: Conquest (360) 113k

January 10 (Public top 10 + PS3forums leaked numbers)
Mass Effect 2 (360) 572.1k
Army of Tutu (360) 246.5k
Darksiders (360) 171.2k
+MAG PS3 ~150k
+Darksiders PS3 ~130k
+Bayonetta 360 ~100k
+Army of Two PS3? This hasn't been leaked but logically even at a 2:1 360S3 ratio, that puts it above 100k.

So, am I reading this correctly? For this generation of consoles (and perhaps of all time?), the biggest ever software debuts recorded by NPD for January in North America goes something like this:

Mass Effect 2 (X360) 2010
572.1k
-
Lost Planet (X360) 2007
~325k
-
Resident Evil 4 (GC) 2004
~300k
-
Army of Two: The 40th Day (X360) 2010
246.5k
-
The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap (GBA) 2005
~220k

Really puts the first six days (?) of sale for ME2 recorded in perspective when so many in here are calling its numbers 'disappointing' as well all of the other general suggestions that it has failed to do as well as it should have. January appears to be a relatively weak month for any software debut in NA...but this January saw the debut of two sequels near the end of the month and they both occupy the top five of all time for the January reporting period. Impressive especially when this particular January followed the fastest-selling software ever released in MW2...just two months prior. Some interesting numbers, certainly, even though software and hardware is down overall.

 

[Vinci]

DS only then?

Why? Your TV screen can't be split in half? I'm not saying it's the best solution, but it would be an interesting one. It's not like you can have Mario suddenly running at Sonic speeds, and they'd both seem pretty friggin' out of place in one another's worlds and levels.

 

[Shiggy]

@MightyHedgehog
It's not only January, but also that there haven't been any big-sellers during that month in the last few years. It was evident that we would not see sales as in December though.

 

[Mael]

Why? Your TV screen can't be split in half? I'm not saying it's the best solution, but it would be an interesting one. It's not like you can have Mario suddenly running at Sonic speeds, and they'd both seem pretty friggin' out of place in one another's worlds and levels.

Well it would either get into Sonic 2 or 3 type of display and let's say it's not ideal.
DS you got 2 screen with the good ratio so it's okay....
And Mario is nearly as fast as Sonic was in Sonic 1.
Actually it's only in the 3d incarnations that Mario is as slow as a slug (and the fun part is that in 3d, mario would have an unfair advantage, I mean he would be the only one not failing to his death because of physics and all ).
You can be very fast and reactive in 2d mario.
Sonic is a bit strange as it's been quite a long time that he was in a game with decent fantastic design...

 

[wazoo]

I think the failure in marketing with some of these titles is that someone, somewhere, made a decision to develop them at all. Some of them honestly have 'bomba' written all over them. That's not true in all cases, but certainly in some.

NMH2 likely didn't sell because most people didn't even know it was released. I haven't seen a damn thing about it outside of GAF.

We only got confirmation this week that NMH2 would be released (in april) in Europe. Some games like Sakura Wars are the same, ot like A boy and his blob are not even in retails.

For 3rd parties Wii games, it is always "maybe yes, maybe not, I do not know, do you really want it, oops it was released yesterday, bomba"

 

[Mael]

We only got confirmation this week that NMH2 would be released (in april) in Europe. Some games like Sakura Wars are the same, ot like A boy and his blob are not even in retails.

For 3rd parties Wii games, it is always "maybe yes, maybe not, I do not know, do you really want it, oops it was released yesterday, bomba"

Don't remind me, to get Blast Works I had to phone Eidos just to get the bloody release date!!!
In the end only little retailers got the game and the others don't even know what the hell the game is!

 

[Vinci]

Well it would either get into Sonic 2 or 3 type of display and let's say it's not ideal.
DS you got 2 screen with the good ratio so it's okay....
And Mario is nearly as fast as Sonic was in Sonic 1.
Actually it's only in the 3d incarnations that Mario is as slow as a slug (and the fun part is that in 3d, mario would have an unfair advantage, I mean he would be the only one not failing to his death because of physics and all ).
You can be very fast and reactive in 2d mario.
Sonic is a bit strange as it's been quite a long time that he was in a game with decent fantastic design...

Fair enough. I still don't think Mario is as fast as Sonic though, even in 2D. Or at least I don't think he should be if he is despite my recollection saying he isn't. Whatever. It's not that important - just like the idea of the two racing in their own environments in a way similar to ExciteBots - where getting to the end first does not necessarily mean you win the race.

 

[NeonZ]

It's not like you can have Mario suddenly running at Sonic speeds, and they'd both seem pretty friggin' out of place in one another's worlds and levels.

Isn't that the point? If a crossover ever happens, the idea is to show a situation that doesn't happen usually, not put two separate games in a single disc. That would be a complete waste.

 

[Stumpokapow]

So, am I reading this correctly?

Yep!

Really puts the first six days (?) of sale for ME2 recorded in perspective when so many in here are calling its numbers 'disappointing' as well all of the other general suggestions that it has failed to do as well as it should have. January appears to be a relatively weak month for any software debut in NA...but this January saw the debut of two sequels near the end of the month and they both occupy the top five of all time for the January reporting period.

It's hard for me to tell if publishers avoid big releases in January because January is slow, or if January is slow because publishers avoid big releases, or a bit of both, so I personally am not drawing any conclusions about a game being "#1 January release of all time", I just thought the info was interesting.

Certainly if one believed there was something innately low about January sales regardless of release slate, ME2's sales would be spectacular by means of comparison.

 

[Mael]

Fair enough. I still don't think Mario is as fast as Sonic though, even in 2D. Or at least I don't think he should be if he is despite my recollection saying he isn't. Whatever. It's not that important - just like the idea of the two racing in their own environments in a way similar to ExciteBots - where getting to the end first does not necessarily mean you win the race.

That's actually a pretty cool idea, you don't even need Mario or Sonic for that actually...
The way I see it, it would be better to have the game be on 2 planes at once, meaning that Mario & Sonic would have to help each other (or hinder each other) to progress akin to the spirit of competition behind nsmbw.
Thus we can have a game where players compete and cooperate with each others...