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[Saty]

You wanted a Wii 3rd Party games debate? Well, you get it:
http://kotaku.com/5518848/red-steel-2-us-sales-at-50000-expert-says

Patcher estimates Red Steel 2 have sold 50,000 copies.

 

[Effect]

So have there been any articles from any analyst yet in regard to the latest sales data? It's always entertaining to see how they spin things.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

So with the 360 failure rate at 42% how does that affect the NPD?

Permanently on the verge of shortage or does it increase numbers because everyone has to buy more than one?

First of all, bad idea. 2nd of all, what's your source for that failure rate?

 

[Y2Kev]

You wanted a Wii 3rd Party games debate? Well, you get it:
http://kotaku.com/5518848/red-steel-2-us-sales-at-50000-expert-says

Patcher estimates Red Steel 2 have sold 50,000 copies.

It was a big mistake to drop the hip, contemporary aesthetic of the first. I thought Red Steel had a lot to offer gamers with its biting social commentary on baka gaijins.

 

[shintoki]

I'm really struck by the fundamental incoherence of the logic that a developer who doesn't port a title to PS3 to snag ~40% of the sales of the 360 version is committing an unforgivable sin for the ages, while a developer who doesn't port a title to 360 to snag ~40% of the sales of the PS3 version is following objective business logic.

(My position has been pretty much since the start of the generation that unless a console manufacturer is publishing your game or paying you an amount of money equal to or larger than your whole development budget, any game for PS3 or 360 should always be ported to the other.)

I could see SE doing the exact same thing they did with FFXIII. SE seemed to played them both pretty well. They kept it exclusive for Sony in Asia(Weren't they even publishing it in Asia?), but they seem to got enough advertisement and push their to make them happy. While MS finally got the last major 3rd party title on the other system, so MS really helped push it in the West. And I'm sure they squeaked out allot of developer support from Sony, and support for the 360 port also from MS.

As long as they can keep playing the two against each other. It should work out well enough. They can either acquire better terms from Sony, or if that falls through. Make up the difference with MS.

 

[Swittcher]

God Kotaku fails so hard.

The reason why Red Steel 1 sold so well....

Is because Ubisoft cared about marketing it.

And I love how Dead Space Extraction is always brought up in these debates as if it's a shock that an on-rails sequel to an HD-only game, failed to sell alot of copies on the Wii as well as having absolutely no advertising and push by EA.

 

[pakkit]

I think Red Steel 2 will have a good year. I know I'm going to get it as soon as my school year ends. It's a shame it missed the Christmas push, though.

 

[Mael]

God Kotaku fails so hard.

The reason why Red Steel 1 sold so well....

Is because Ubisoft cared about marketing it.

And I love how Dead Space Extraction is always brought up in these debates as if it's a shock that an on-rails sequel to an HD-only game, failed to sell alot of copies on the Wii as well as having absolutely no advertising and push by EA.

Apparently the matter is not discussing the situation, it is solely to convey and force the message that somehow Wii will eat what you care about.
Seriously there's no other explanation,
it's like explaining that you fail your year with only assessing a grade.
It's shoddy and something like DS:E should be taken similarly that we take Turok on the hd twin : not at all.
I mean who is surprised a game that interest no one fails?

 

[Jonsoncao]

any top 20 chart yet?

 

[Baki]

You really think it's more likely a 5-week March with GoWIII and FFXIII had less demand than a 4-week February, than that there was supply issues?

I'm not sure anymore if people are being sarcastic or just a little thick. PS3 supply has been well commented on through March from press and retail. I'm sure people have already posted Gamestop's comments from the middle of the month...I'll take a guess they've much better visibility of the supply situation than anyone here does.

This can't be quoted enough. A retail chain said there were PS3 shortages and people still try to dispute it.

 

[[Nintex]]

This can't be quoted enough. A retail chain said there were PS3 shortages and people still try to dispute it.

PS3 supply is tight at the moment

PS3 is in short supply

Shortages in effect

Remember guys, PS3 shortages this month

There, I saved you some work for the next 5 pages now go play outside.

 

[Y2Kev]

God Kotaku fails so hard.

The reason why Red Steel 1 sold so well....

Is because Ubisoft cared about marketing it.

And I love how Dead Space Extraction is always brought up in these debates as if it's a shock that an on-rails sequel to an HD-only game, failed to sell alot of copies on the Wii as well as having absolutely no advertising and push by EA.

I think Red Steel 2 was pretty well marketed. There is a fairly large TV campaign running with a pretty good ad.

I don't think it's marketing anymore. The userbase for these games on Wii was not adequately cultivated by third parties for the first few years of the system, and price drops on the 360 (in particular) and PS3 meant that any Wii-only gamer could go there for these sorts of games. In any case, I don't think "mArKeTinG1!1" really works for this particular title.

 

[Swittcher]

I think Red Steel 2 was pretty well marketed. There is a fairly large TV campaign running with a pretty good ad.

I don't think it's marketing anymore. The userbase for these games on Wii was not adequately cultivated by third parties for the first few years of the system, and price drops on the 360 (in particular) and PS3 meant that any Wii-only gamer could go there for these sorts of games. In any case, I don't think "mArKeTinG1!1" really works for this particular title.

Was the marketing up to the same level as Conviction?

Assassin's Creed 2?

Far Cry 2?

 

[Baki]

There, I saved you some work for the next 5 pages now go play outside.

1) Well to be fair, I only repeated myself because so many people made it seem like I was wrong. And I like being right.

2) How did you do that? Search is disabled?

Was the marketing up to the same level as Conviction?

Assassin's Creed 2?

Far Cry 2?

Well it certainly had more marketing than Heavy Rain which did 220K in Feb. NPD?

My point: Stop blaming the marketing. Its obvious there are other factors at play.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

You wanted a Wii 3rd Party games debate? Well, you get it:
http://kotaku.com/5518848/red-steel-2-us-sales-at-50000-expert-says

Patcher estimates Red Steel 2 have sold 50,000 copies.

Is this worse than the Conduit? Wow.

God Kotaku fails so hard.

The reason why Red Steel 1 sold so well....

Is because Ubisoft cared about marketing it.

You honestly must never watch television if you've never seen the Red Steel 2 commercial in the US. I'd say it's about the same level of exposure as Far Cry 2 or MAG.

Spoiler

Will you guys STFU about PS3 shortages? It doesn't matter how many units Sony sold this month - they sold the most software with the lowest install base. That's a "win" by any metric. It's been said already, the PS3 install base is no longer so small that it's a bottleneck for AAA games, even exclusive ones. For the first time since probably '99, we have 3 genuinely healthy home consoles on the market at the same time.

 

[Effect]

I think Red Steel 2 was pretty well marketed. There is a fairly large TV campaign running with a pretty good ad.

I don't think it's marketing anymore. The userbase for these games on Wii was not adequately cultivated by third parties for the first few years of the system, and price drops on the 360 (in particular) and PS3 meant that any Wii-only gamer could go there for these sorts of games. In any case, I don't think "mArKeTinG1!1" really works for this particular title.

On that note I do wonder if 3rd parties market any of their non-Wii games only late at night and only on one or two channels? That's what they do it seems when they do market a Wii game. Outside of Cartoon Network's Adult Swim (11pm est at the earliest) and maybe Comedy Central where else has anyone seen a Red Steel 2 ad in the US? Those where the two primary locations where I've seen past ads for games like Mad World, The Conduit, and now Red Steel 2 and Monster Hunter 3.

 

[Vinci]

I think Red Steel 2 was pretty well marketed. There is a fairly large TV campaign running with a pretty good ad.

I don't think it's marketing anymore. The userbase for these games on Wii was not adequately cultivated by third parties for the first few years of the system, and price drops on the 360 (in particular) and PS3 meant that any Wii-only gamer could go there for these sorts of games. In any case, I don't think "mArKeTinG1!1" really works for this particular title.

The part in which Red Steel 2 failed from a marketing standpoint was being the follow-up to a fairly shitty game in the first place. They advertised RS2. But it wasn't a very marketable title due to the brown-streaked wake of its predecessor.

EDIT: In essence, it's the polar opposite of what's happening with GoW right now.

 

[Owzers]

You wanted a Wii 3rd Party games debate? Well, you get it:
http://kotaku.com/5518848/red-steel-2-us-sales-at-50000-expert-says

Patcher estimates Red Steel 2 have sold 50,000 copies.

I expected atleast 100k. This will still bring entertainment though. Excuses for why it didn't sell are going to be grrrrrrrrrrrreat.

 

[Speevy]

2) How did you do that? Search is disabled?

Type Baki shortages into the google search box.

 

[Loudninja]

UPDATE: A Ubisoft spokesperson confirmed the sales figures but correctly pointed out that they are based on only a partial month's performance, as Red Steel 2 was released on March 23, less than half a month before NPD's March reporting period ended on April 3. "Considering that the NPD sales only accounted for 12 days on the store shelves and that NPD doesn't include all retailers we are looking forward to a complete month of sales data to see where we stand. "Considering that the NPD sales only accounted for 12 days on the store shelves and that NPD doesn't include all retailers we are looking forward to a complete month of sales data to see where we stand."

.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

The userbase for these games on Wii was not adequately cultivated by third parties for the first few years of the system

but ubisoft introduced the world to Wii shooters with the epic tale (a haiku, but really long an not a poem, one might say) of baka gaijin Scott-san and his gangsta shooting

what went wrong

 

[Y2Kev]

Was the marketing up to the same level as Conviction?

Assassin's Creed 2?

Far Cry 2?

Are you really going to get a satisfactory answer to this? How can you really quantify? I've seen the Conviction ad just once, the Assassin's ad maybe marginally more, and I never saw a Far Cry 2 ad. I don't think there even was a US ad.

but ubisoft introduced the world to Wii shooters with the epic tale (a haiku, but really long an not a poem, one might say) of baka gaijin Scott-san and his gangsta shooting

what went wrong

They abandoned Scott-san when everyone was craving for more of his gigantic American penis into their game sex holes. Haunted is only one person.

Ubsioft is a well-trained GAF poster.

 

[Baki]

Type Baki shortages into the google search box.

Googles better than I thought.

 

[Vinci]

Googles better than I thought.

You cannot hide from Google, Baki. It will find you. Oh yes.

EDIT: For example, a simple search of 'Baki porn' now enables me to know the precise adult websites you frequent and on which you foolishly provided a credit card.

 

[TheThunder]

Can someone qualify what "bigger" mean in terms of GOW being bigger than MGS?

More units sold?

Or number of games?

Number of different systems the franchise has appeared on?

Or how old the franchise is?

Cuz, if it's any of the above, there's only one winner.

Unit sales.

 

[Baki]

You cannot hide from Google, Baki. It will find you. Oh yes.

I guess all that money they spend on SEO is money well spent.

Unit sales.

Not WW it isn't.

 

[CozMick]

Besy NPD in a while. SW wise.

God Battlefield, Go MLB, Go GOW, Go Pokemon.

The only shit that doesn't deserve to be up there is FF13, that game is a fucking joke, tried to play it and only lasted 45 minutes, I couldn't stand all that shit, which is a shame because I loved FFX and still consider it as one of my favorite games ever.

Such a shame, I consider it one of my best games of this generation.

Just 10hrs of your time and it gets beyond epic from there I tell ya.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Was the marketing up to the same level as Conviction?

Assassin's Creed 2?

Far Cry 2?

Splinter Cell has had advertisements? Outside of the shitty Gamestop ads?

Speaking of which, that's why Wii 3rd party games bomb. Not enough pre-order incentives.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

RS2 was marketed fine. You can't really use that excuse.

It just has bad brand recognition because of the first game, no local (or online, but specifically local) multiplayer which kills Wii games, and missed Christmas where it would have done better.

Word of mouth will help, maybe even to the tune of 100k. It maybe should have done better, but advertising is not why.

 

[Jomjom]

I saw more Red Steel 2 commercials than GoW3 commercials, so I'm not really getting why people are claiming it didn't sell because of lack of marketing. Also, most games now sell the majority of their numbers in the first week or so anyway. Some will sell as time passes, but it will be small relative to the total sold in the first week.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Is this worse than the Conduit? Wow.

Conduit sold just under 72k in its first month: http://www.edge-online.com/news/the-conduit-sells-under-72k-in-the-us-during-june

I think the last time we heard about it it was somewhere around 150k worldwide.


So yeah. That's a travesty.

 

[[Nintex]]

2) How did you do that? Search is disabled?

I made it all up!

Magic my friend... magic


Also Red Steel 2 bombed because Mario walks on clouds now, seriously Super Mario walks on clouds

 

[Vinci]

Can people please stop using marketing and advertising in place of one another? They're not the same damn thing.

 

[Y2Kev]

Can people please stop using marketing and advertising in place of one another? They're not the same damn thing.

I agree. But I actually think RS2 is a failure of marketing. Just a little research would have demonstrated that Scott-san was the #1 hottest gaming figure on Wii.

 

[Jomjom]

Can people please stop using marketing and advertising in place of one another? They're not the same damn thing.

You're right they aren't the same thing, but advertising is a part of marketing. As far as getting huge sale numbers, you need to reach the masses, and there is unquestionably no stronger form of marketing than TV if you are trying to reach those masses.

It's not like you can market this to people as if it were the next Mario or Just Dance. It is what it is.

 

[JaxJag]

Such a shame, I consider it one of my best games of this generation.

Just 10hrs of your time and it gets beyond epic from there I tell ya.

A game shouldn't take 10 hours to get good.

It just shouldn't, and in my eyes that makes it a bad game since most people won't make it past the first few hours.

 

[LosDaddie]

But yeah, the only reason anyone cares about what the PS3 might have sold is for bragging rights because they're childishly insecure about which system they own or are emotionally invested in. The truth, though, is that these short-term supply issues, or even the Wii's long stretch, don't change the big picture. All the systems have had times where supply was an issue. None of those issues would have changed the market as it stands if they hadn't occurred.

Well said. But it's like what PT said a few pages back:

I've heard reports that PS3 shortages are expected to continue until it outsells the Xbox360.

 

[TheThunder]

Not WW it isn't.

This the NPD thread not MC+PAL Charts thread.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Conduit sold just under 72k in its first month: http://www.edge-online.com/news/the-conduit-sells-under-72k-in-the-us-during-june

I think the last time we heard about it it was somewhere around 150k worldwide.


So yeah. That's a travesty.

Looked it up, apparently Conduit sold 350k worldwide: http://wii.ign.com/articles/106/1066623p1.html


So...

1,000,000

350,000

50,000



wii owners, is there some kind of reverse quality calculus going on in your heads

and yes i know it's first month sales but unless there's a lot of word of mouth I don't see a first-person sword slasher with no multiplayer having legs of any kind

 

[charlequin]

I don't think it's marketing anymore. The userbase for these games on Wii was not adequately cultivated by third parties for the first few years of the system, and price drops on the 360 (in particular) and PS3 meant that any Wii-only gamer could go there for these sorts of games. In any case, I don't think "mArKeTinG1!1" really works for this particular title.

Yep.

 

[heringer]

Red Steel 2 sales make me a sad panda.

 

[Barrett2]

I have seen a ton of Red Steel 2 commercials, mostly on Comedy Central / basic cable.

 

[Speevy]

As has been said, gamers' response to releases depends on the kinds of genres and themes their platform is accustomed to, which is further affected by quality, saturation, and value.

Put simply, Nintendo didn't sell umpteen bazillion Wiis on the promise of Red Steel 2.

 

[Swittcher]

I've never seen a single Red Steel 2 ad.

 

[Kagari]

I've never seen a single Red Steel 2 ad.

I rarely watch TV and saw it several times.

 

[LosDaddie]

I've never seen a single Red Steel 2 ad.

I saw a bunch on Comedy Central and Spike. Same goes for GoW 3

 

[Jaded Alyx]

On that note I do wonder if 3rd parties market any of their non-Wii games only late at night and only on one or two channels? That's what they do it seems when they do market a Wii game. Outside of Cartoon Network's Adult Swim (11pm est at the earliest) and maybe Comedy Central where else has anyone seen a Red Steel 2 ad in the US? Those where the two primary locations where I've seen past ads for games like Mad World, The Conduit, and now Red Steel 2 and Monster Hunter 3.

WWE Raw

 

[Vinci]

You're right they aren't the same thing, but advertising is a part of marketing. As far as getting huge sale numbers, you need to reach the masses, and there is unquestionably no stronger form of marketing than TV if you are trying to reach those masses.

No kidding? Again, as I mentioned earlier: Killzone 2, one of the showcase titles of the PS3, failed to set the charts afire. Why? Obviously a great deal of money was spent developing it, advertising it (hell, they owe GAF money for all the advertising the title got from the fucking army of gifs); it's one of the most graphically impressive, visceral titles in the FPS genre on consoles. So where the hell did they go wrong?

Killzone, the original, wasn't an especially good game. It wasn't the total abortion Red Steel was, but it wasn't something where people were going, "Holy shit, where is the sequel!?!"

Sony tried very hard to turn KZ2 - and the KZ series in general - into something it wasn't. It tried to make it important by spending shitloads of money on the thing and its advertising. Which is why it did as well as it did, yet still failed to be the massive draw that everyone assumed it would be.

Red Steel 2, by comparison, received a pathetic amount of advertising and development budget. [Admittedly, it's good by Wii standards.] Which is why: 50k.

 

[Jokeropia]

Although Nintendo is number one, in the hall of fame and all of that what they have left on the table is far from a scrap.
It's the whole core business and the third parties business environment.

The first sentence is true, the second is not.

 

[Averon]

I saw several RS2 tv ads since late March. So this "lack of advertising" excuse doesn't fly.