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[titiklabingapat]

How? The Wii could sell 5 billion units and you could not possibly prove that Wii Sports was the reason for it.

Well, you cannot deny it happens and if the Wii does sell gazzilions of units and end up "winning", you can take a modest percentage of that amount, say 5%, and say with certainty that those units were bought because of Wii Sports. Then there's Japanese where Wii Sport isn't bundled and continues to demonstrate DS software like thunder legs.

 

[Flakster99]

I can't f***ing believe Mario Party 8 is in the top ten, that game is utter trash.

Hey, have you played the game yet? With friends and or family? I have, with F&F, and it's fun. If you haven't, a big **** you. If you have, and disliked the experience, so what if others enjoyed the game, in turn receiving nice sales.

 

[C4Lukins]

Well, you cannot deny it happens and if the Wii does sell gazzilions of units and end up "winning", you can take a modest percentage of that amount, say 5%, and say with certainty that those units were bought because of Wii Sports. Then there's Japanese where Wii Sport isn't bundled and continues to demonstrate DS software like thunder legs.

Well you ****ing win tikilabingapat. I cannot compete with this logic.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

So... no one posted the Shadowrun numbers yet?

 

[LCGeek]

How? The Wii could sell 5 billion units and you could not possibly prove that Wii Sports was the reason for it.

Wii isn't gonna sell 5 billion so why is that even a hypothetical?

Here's a way you can tell Wii sports is selling systems sales of the game are the highest of any Wii product. Considering sales of other products aren't nearly as big as it you have to conclude it's an element of why Wii sales. Either way I'm not dragging this out your argument is flat out disingenuous and I would like to see your reasoning for why Wii hardware is selling considering nothing else besides Wii play is selling like Wii sports.

 

[C4Lukins]

Wii isn't gonna sell 5 billion so why is that even a hypothetical?

Here's a way you can tell Wii sports is selling systems sales of the game are the highest of any Wii product. Considering sales of other products aren't nearly as big as it you have to conclude it's an element of why Wii sales. Either way I'm not dragging this out your argument is flat out disingenuous and I would like to see your reasoning for why Wii hardware is selling considering nothing else besides Wii play is selling like Wii sports.

Your misinterpreting everything I am saying. My argument is just that you cannot quantify Wii Sports sales to GTA or Halo because one is a pack in and the others are not. Not to say that Wii Sports is less important, just that it is impossible to know its influence over the whole matter.

 

[LCGeek]

Your misinterpreting everything I am saying. My argument is just that you cannot quantify Wii Sports sales to GTA or Halo because one is a pack in and the others are not. Not to say that Wii Sports is less important, just that it is impossible to know its influence over the whole matter.

Why not sony got away with calling GT3 a huge million seller despite a pack in and nintendo did the same with super mario bros 1 for the nes. To me a pack in is probably the biggest sign a title is a system seller vs one that is not. I make the distinction like you just I got different read from the point you were mentioning.

 

[legend166]

I'm really interested in hearing just how the PS3 is going to sell 50-60 million in the next 4 years.

 

[quetz67]

I'm really interested in hearing just how the PS3 is going to sell 50-60 million in the next 4 years.

the same way PS1 and PS2 did probably

 

[ziran]

I'm really interested in hearing just how the PS3 is going to sell 50-60 million in the next 4 years.

Yeah, that's what I want to know.

Why will PS3 sales increase to the extent it sells more than something like GC? Putting personal preferences aside for a moment and ignoring bollocks like March excitement, the power of the Playstation brand and fairy dust, what games are going to cause such an increase in desirability of the console? And I'm being serious, what is going to make consumers propel the system to a huge, 50-60+ million, success?

We've seen how generations play out time and time again, why will it be any different for PS3?

 

[Pachael]

I'm really interested in hearing just how the PS3 is going to sell 50-60 million in the next 4 years.

The same way the Xbox 360 is going to sell 100 million units by the end of oh wai-

 

[Tf53]

the same way Gamecube did probably

Fixed. No, wait...

 

[quetz67]

Yeah, that's what I want to know.

Why will PS3 sales increase to the extent it sells more than something like GC? Putting personal preferences aside for a moment and ignoring bollocks like March excitement, the power of the Playstation brand and fairy dust, what games are going to cause such an increase in desirability of the console? And I'm being serious, what is going to make consumers propel the system to a huge, 50-60+ million, success?

We've seen how generations play out time and time again, why will it be any different for PS3?

Why did the PS1 and PS2 sell more than the N64 and GC? Because they offered the games most gamers wanted, and which the PS3 will offer too.

 

[legend166]

the same way PS1 and PS2 did probably

That makes no sense.

Edit: Who are you to say what gamers do and do not want? This is what I'm talking about, I hate it when people try to inject their personal opinions about games onto the general public.

 

[Matt]

Why did the PS1 and PS2 sell more than the N64 and GC? Because they offered the games most gamers wanted, and which the PS3 will offer too.

Why? Why is PS3 going to offer these magical titles? I don't understand, if Wii continues to destroy the PS3 and 360 in hardware sales, then 3rd parties will support it more then the competition, meaning that the games people want will be on Wii, not the PS3. And if that is the case, it doesn't matter how much Sony cuts the price, the damn thing STILL won't sell.

Software sells hardware, hardware doesn't sell software. People won't buy a PS3 and then look for the games they want, they will look for games they want, and then act accordingly. But the software would have to be pretty incredible to warrant somebody spending $600, or $500, $400, or even $300 or $200.

 

[quetz67]

That makes no sense.

I think it makes sense, I think most consoles sell by people going into stores and buying them or maybe have them shipped to them.

If you think it makes no sense it PS3 will sell similiar numbers - I dont see what the PS1/PS2 offered that the PS3 does not or will not offer.

If you think PS3 will sell worse, because of Wii selling better, what about all those new markets opened by Wii? Will a PS1/PS2 owner not buy a PS3 because his granny got Wii as first (and probably last) console in her life?

 

[quetz67]

Why? Why is PS3 going to offer these magical titles? I don't understand, if Wii continues to destroy the PS3 and 360 in hardware sales, then 3rd parties will support it more then the competition, meaning that the games people want will be on Wii, not the PS3.

Forget about that. Wii is not able to run those games. People dont want exactly the same games they got last gen, they want games that are like them but use the new power to improve on them. Gamers dont want another GTA III City, they want GTA IV.

 

[Matt]

Forget about that. Wii is not able to run those games. People dont want exactly the same games they got last gen, they want games that are like them but use the new power to improve on them. Gamers dont want another GTA III City, they want GTA IV.

Maybe, but as we can already see, they aren't willing to pay for it. And if consumers aren't willing to pay for the hardware to run these fancy new games, publishers will soon realize that the returns don't justify the cost in making them. GTA4 isn't going to sell as much as GTA3 did, simply because it has a much smaller market to sell too. Besides the fact that GTA4 is going to sell the best on the 360, not the PS3.

 

[legend166]

If you think it makes no sense it PS3 will sell similiar numbers - I dont see what the PS1/PS2 offered that the PS3 does not or will not offer.

How about a mass market price? And games that actually appeal to them?

 

[tahrikmili]

Forget about that. Wii is not able to run those games. People dont want exactly the same games they got last gen, they want games that are like them but use the new power to improve on them. Gamers dont want another GTA III City, they want GTA IV.

I want to believe.

But then, why are they buying the Wii if it obviously can't run a GTA IV

 

[ziran]

Why did the PS1 and PS2 sell more than the N64 and GC? Because they offered the games most gamers wanted, and which the PS3 will offer too.

PS1 and PS2 offered the most games because they had the biggest user base and did everything right.

PS1 benefited from lower dev costs and huge mistakes from both Sega and Nintendo.
PS2 benefited from an early start and mistakes from Nintendo and MS.
PS3 is not exhibiting any similarities to PS1 or PS2's strategies.

Every generation the console that makes the most blunders early in its life always ends up in last place with a limited installed base. PS3 is a perfect example of this, why will things change?

 

[quetz67]

I want to believe.

But then, why are they buying the Wii if it obviously can't run a GTA IV

New markets opened plus long time Nintendo fans plus gamers who get the Wii as an addition or as intermediate solution. Those 3 groups probably arent the only Wii customers, but the customers from these 3 groups will not result in a single less PS3 purchased (group one and two may actually result in MORE PS3s purchased, though that number is probably very low)

 

[Branduil]

PS3 magically gets the games people want, why can't you understand that? Also, franchises never stagnate and people always want more of the same. It's not like new franchises are suddenly successful, surprising everyone and changing the momentum of a race. Everyone always knew GTAIII and Nintendogs would be successful.

 

[quetz67]

PS1 benefited from lower dev costs and huge mistakes from both Sega and Nintendo.

Huge mistakes like using cartridges for N64 (aka using DVD instead of HD_DVD/BluRay for next gen).

PS2 benefited from an early start and mistakes from Nintendo and MS.

Dreamcast?

PS3 is not exhibiting any similarities to PS1 or PS2's strategieschange?

For me actually I dont see many differences between PS1/PS2 and PS3, besides an pretty high early price. PS2 was extremely high priced in europe at launch and it didnt hurt it in the long run at all (599 Euros actually feel less than the 879 Deutschmarks the PS2 was in germany)

 

[Matt]

New markets opened plus long time Nintendo fans plus gamers who get the Wii as an addition or as intermediate solution. Those 3 groups probably arent the only Wii customers, but the customers from these 3 groups will not result in a single less PS3 purchased (group one and two may actually result in MORE PS3s purchased, though that number is probably very low)

And WHEN exactly are people going to start buying the PS3 in mass droves? Can you give me a date or an event to look for? Because my crystal ball is a little cloudy and all I can see in it is a murder of crows.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Why? Why is PS3 going to offer these magical titles? I don't understand, if Wii continues to destroy the PS3 and 360 in hardware sales, then 3rd parties will support it more then the competition, meaning that the games people want will be on Wii, not the PS3. And if that is the case, it doesn't matter how much Sony cuts the price, the damn thing STILL won't sell.

Software sells hardware, hardware doesn't sell software. People won't buy a PS3 and then look for the games they want, they will look for games they want, and then act accordingly. But the software would have to be pretty incredible to warrant somebody spending $600, or $500, $400, or even $300 or $200.

It's not even that anymore. People like what Nintendo makes again, third parties are starting to look more and more inconsequential, when it comes to the Wii and it's rapidly growing user base(see DS, the early years). I think I made a alot of blah blah talk about this in the Sega diss Wii thread.

Forget about that. Wii is not able to run those games. People dont want exactly the same games they got last gen.

You're right. People don't want non-waggle games anymore.

 

[quetz67]

And WHEN exactly are people going to start buying the PS3 in mass droves? Can you give me a date or an event to look for? Because my crystal ball is a little cloudy and all I can see in it is a murder of crows.

PS3 will start to sell better this holiday season (price dropped - I think it is rather a question how low not if, games drought ended, Home released, Singstar/Eyetoy for Europe, better HD penetration, more worthwile BluRay movies available)

Not that is sold like nothing until now, 3 million sell through in an average of 4 month isnt exactly Wii levels but it is OK.

 

[Masklinn]

Huge mistakes like using cartridges for N64 (aka using DVD instead of HD_DVD/BluRay for next gen).

Huge mistakes like being a dick to third parties (nintendo) and being a dick to consumers and distributors (sega)

Dreamcast?

Nope, self-destruction + extensive PR had ensured the Dreamcast would fail, it never threatened the PS2

For me actually I dont see many differences between PS1/PS2 and PS3, besides an pretty high early price.

Yeah, apart from the Wii having the marketshare the GC didn't and the 360 having the quality third-parties the Xbox didn't...

599 Euros actually feel less than the 879 Deutschmarks the PS2 was in germany)

Lol

Not that is sold like nothing until now, 3 million sell through in an average of 4 month

average of 4 months? where the hell does that retardation come from now?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

It's clear you're still outta stock, quetz67.

 

[quetz67]

You're right. People don't want non-waggle games anymore.

Do you really believe people hyped for next GT, GTA IV, MGS IV, Mass Effect, Halo, Uncharted, Bioshock, DMC 4, R&C or whatever care at all if they can waggle their way through those?

 

[Shiggy]

I think quetz67 doesn't understand how the market works.

 

[quetz67]

Huge mistakes like being a dick to third parties (nintendo) and being a dick to consumers and distributors (sega)

Nope, self-destruction + extensive PR had ensured the Dreamcast would fail, it never threatened the PS2

Yeah, apart from the Wii having the marketshare the GC didn't and the 360 having the quality third-parties the Xbox didn't...

Lol

average of 4 months? where the hell does that retardation come from now?

We have numbers for 6 month in 2/3 of the market and 2 month in 1/3 of the market, averages to roughly 4 month to me

And who believes Nintendo changed their ways with 3rd parties is living in a world of illusion. Third party support for Nintendo console comes from them selling good (GB(A), DS and now Wii)

 

[Matt]

PS3 will start to sell better this holiday season (price dropped - I think it is rather a question how low not if, games drought ended, Home released, Singstar/Eyetoy for Europe, better HD penetration, more worthwile BluRay movies available)

Not that is sold like nothing until now, 3 million sell through in an average of 4 month isnt exactly Wii levels but it is OK.

OK, so let's say the PS3 price drops $100 this holiday season. That's still more expensive then the 360, and twice as much as Wii.

The game drought will end...what does this mean? What compelling software will come with this? What game will make the average games consumer say "Wow, I need this game, I don't care if it costs me $600"?

Home will be released. Well, yes, it will. Maybe this will spur some sales (I doubt it), but again, who would pay $500 for the ability to chat with a select group of people online?

More people will have HDTVs, yes. But that seems like something of a meaningless fact, because isn't it something like 80% of the people with HDTVs do not have them configured for HD? It seems to many that having the TV is enough, and setting it up properly with the right equipment is beyond them.

And again with the Blu-Ray. If people want a BR player, they will buy one. Not a PS3.

 

[Jocchan]

Excuse me, but I wanted to express my sincere admiration for Quetz67.
Keep up with the good work, sir.

Spoiler

Now I can get back to my popcorn.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Do you really believe people hyped for next GT, GTA IV, MGS IV, Mass Effect, Halo, Uncharted, Bioshock, DMC 4, R&C or whatever care at all if they can waggle their way through those?

Pretty much, yeah. Even Super Smash Bro, Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime aren't immune. They will still sell well, but it won't stop the Wii Sports and Wii Music from dominating. Like the DS all over again with NSMB and Pokemon coexisting with Nintendogs and Brain Training.

And only the Wii has the advantage of having both traditional games and "new gen" waggle games.

 

[Matt]

And who believes Nintendo changed their ways with 3rd parties is living in a world of illusion. Third party support for Nintendo console comes from them selling good (GB(A), DS and now Wii)

Where do you get this from? Nintendo has drastically changed the way they deal with third parties, we have third parties testifying to this fact all the time!

 

[Masklinn]

We have numbers for 6 month in 2/3 of the market and 2 month in 1/3 of the market, averages to roughly 4 month to me

(6.5*2+2.5)/3 > 5 months, so you're off by at least a month for the "average time", and it's not like it even really makes sense to use that.

And who believes Nintendo changed their ways with 3rd parties is living in a world of illusion. Third party support for Nintendo console comes from them selling good (GB(A), DS and now Wii)

Yeah because third parties reports that they're much easier to work with than they were are living in a world of illusion too.

 

[quetz67]

I think quetz67 doesn't understand how the market works.

We will see who is right in a couple of years. My assumptions are that brand name still matters and that not 100million gamers will go back to the type of games they abandonded 10 years ago for a reason.

I see a trend going into the direction of simple games with control method an important factor, but not as much to make it a 180° change. And we dont know what the new Eyetoy is able to do (or better what they will do with it, it should to a good degree be able to mimick most of the stuff the Wiimote can do).

 

[quetz67]

Yeah because third parties reports that they're much easier to work with than they were are living in a world of illusion too.

they are easier to work with because they can work with about the same dev kits they know from last gen.

 

[Matt]

they are easier to work with because they can work with about the same dev kits they know from last gen.

We were talking about corporate dealings, not hardware proficiency.

 

[Masklinn]

they are easier to work with because they can work with about the same dev kits they know from last gen.

...

I'm at loss for word when confronted with your retardation and utter refusal to understand other people's posts.

 

[Matt]

We will see who is right in a couple of years. My assumptions are that brand name still matters and that not 100million gamers will go back to the type of games they abandonded 10 years ago for a reason.

...What type of games were abandoned in 1997?

I see a trend going into the direction of simple games with control method an important factor, but not as much to make it a 180° change. And we dont know what the new Eyetoy is able to do (or better what they will do with it, it should to a good degree be able to mimick most of the stuff the Wiimote can do).

Please, Eyetoy is cool and all, but the fact that it's an optional peripheral (the purchasing of which would raise the total cost of entry for PS3 EVEN HIGHER) means it will not have a meaningful impact on the overall market.

 

[titiklabingapat]

We will see who is right in a couple of years. My assumptions are that brand name still matters and that not 100million gamers will go back to the type of games they abandonded 10 years ago for a reason.

I see a trend going into the direction of simple games with control method an important factor, but not as much to make it a 180° change. And we dont know what the new Eyetoy is able to do (or better what they will do with it, it should to a good degree be able to mimick most of the stuff the Wiimote can do).

Eyetoy will be a non-factor so long as Sony is focused on the whole hitech and luxury kind of philosophy and if the price of the PS3 is still nowhere near the Wii. Wii is more than waggle(and price).

I'm sure it will be cool and all but I really doubt it will affect the Wii very much, if at all.

 

[quetz67]

We were talking about corporate dealings, not hardware proficiency.

Most company's dealing with Nintendo is developing games for them and getting royalties for that. They are happy their games are easy to develop and sell fine so they confirm a nice partnership.

 

[Shiggy]

We will see who is right in a couple of years. My assumptions are that brand name still matters and that not 100million gamers will go back to the type of games they abandonded 10 years ago for a reason.

It matters, correct, but not that much, as you see with PSP or N64.

I see a trend going into the direction of simple games with control method an important factor, but not as much to make it a 180° change.

Well, these games were an important factor for the European success of the PS2 or DS, it's important for the mass market appeal.

And we dont know what the new Eyetoy is able to do (or better what they will do with it, it should to a good degree be able to mimick most of the stuff the Wiimote can do).

It's only a seperate accessory, together with the high price (of PS3) it won't be as successful as Wii, since the Wii Remote is the main control unit.

At this point PS3 is not only selling worse than its competitors, but also worse than PS2, while Wii is selling on PS2 level. That's what people want.

 

[quetz67]

Eyetoy will be a non-factor so long as Sony is focused on the whole hitech and luxury kind of philosophy and if the price of the PS3 is still nowhere near the Wii. Wii is more than waggle(and price).

Even if is Sony is, that doesnt mean Sony cant change. But actually I am pretty confident at least Sony Europe knows about the importance of Eyetoy.

And yes, I know it is only an acessory and not as completely integrated in the system. But guess what, I am pretty sure many people dont care about controlling every stupid game with a remote control. Many might be happy to control their party games with an eyetoy, their racing games with a wheel, their FPS with m/k and the rest with a standard or motion sensitive controller

 

[milanbaros]

I don't know about the US but in the UK I think the rise in HD rates is mostly due to people buying new tvs that happen to be HD ready. I haven't heard a single person talk about bluray or hd-dvd. Someone mentioned that they had a hd tv but it looked the same (they wren't receiving HD broadcats but most people are oblivious). The caual market here in the UK doesn't care if the PS3 is HD and the Wii isn't. They just want a wii.

 

[Matt]

Most company's dealing with Nintendo is developing games for them and getting royalties for that. They are happy their games are easy to develop and sell fine so they confirm a nice partnership.

So, basically, developers are lying, the facts don't speak for themselves, and Nintendo has not changed at all. I see. Thanks for the info.

 

[Branduil]

they are easier to work with because they can work with about the same dev kits they know from last gen.

 

[quetz67]

I don't know about the US but in the UK I think the rise in HD rates is mostly due to people buying new tvs that happen to be HD ready. I haven't heard a single person talk about bluray or hd-dvd. Someone mentioned that they had a hd tv but it looked the same (they wren't receiving HD broadcats but most people are oblivious). The caual market here in the UK doesn't care if the PS3 is HD and the Wii isn't. They just want a wii.

I think as long as TV broadcasts are mostly SD the importance of a game machine or media player that shows off what the TV can do is even more important...I think many 360 sales are based on this.

If of course one only uses his HDTV set for SD broadcasts, standard DVDs or playing Wii it might not be obvious to him.