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[DeaconKnowledge]

What did Bully 360 do?

 

[Sharp]

Oh man, that is pathetic! The Wii really is the kiddie/senior/family console. I can understand the weak manhunt 2 sales, but Bully is a really fun open world game but with lots of non family game mischief. And there are many other examples. Like EA's good Medal of Honor game that didn't sell all that well.

I think that most of the more hardcore gamers that own Wiis also own 360s or PS3s such that they buy their shooters & sports games on those HD platforms and just buy the Nintendo IP titles for the Wii.

...Or they also own PS2s and already bought what was by far the most successful version of Bully. That seems like a slightly more rational explanation, to be honest, especially since I don't think I've heard anything at all about Bully 360 sales.

 

[Neomoto]

The fuck? Hardware sales are gigantic, well, Nintendo's anyway. Great month all around.

Brawl did fan_fucking_tastic, wow. 2.7 million, 3rd highest opening ever etc. Wii is really proving itself as a software selling monster, especially considering severe lack of 3rd party games outside of Guitar Hero III (which is doing stunning on Wii as well btw).

It'll be really interesting to watch 4 enormous games releasing so close to eachother (GTA IV, Brawl, Mario Kart, Wii Fit).

 

[_Alkaline_]

Oh man, that is pathetic! The Wii really is the kiddie/senior/family console. I can understand the weak manhunt 2 sales, but Bully is a really fun open world game but with lots of non family game mischief. And there are many other examples. Like EA's good Medal of Honor game that didn't sell all that well.

I think that most of the more hardcore gamers that own Wiis also own 360s or PS3s such that they buy their shooters & sports games on those HD platforms and just buy the Nintendo IP titles for the Wii.

We haven't heard how well the 360 version did either. I'm expecting it did better than the Wii version, but right now you don't know if only the Wii version bombed or if both did. After all, it is a low-advertised last-gen port of a game that didn't really sell all that well on PS2 anyway.

And no, it's not the kiddie/family system. Resident Evil 4 sold awesome. So did Umbrella Chronicles. So did Guitar Hero II (which was not an established franchise on Nintendo system). So did Sonic and the Secret Rings. And so did Red Steel. And so did other 3rd party games on the system. In nearly every case, it was because the games were good and well-advertised.

 

[Sharp]

We haven't heard how well the 360 version did either. I'm expecting it did better than the Wii version, but right now you don't know if only the Wii version bombed or if both did. After all, it is a low-advertised last-gen port of a game that didn't really sell all that well on PS2 anyway.

Sold a million on the PS2, did it not? Or at least shipped a million. I think that was the chief reason that it didn't sell that well, actually; I think nearly everyone who was interested in it had already tried it long before either the Wii or 360 ports came out.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

Oh man, that is pathetic! The Wii really is the kiddie/senior/family console. I can understand the weak manhunt 2 sales, but Bully is a really fun open world game but with lots of non family game mischief. And there are many other examples. Like EA's good Medal of Honor game that didn't sell all that well.

I think that most of the more hardcore gamers that own Wiis also own 360s or PS3s such that they buy their shooters & sports games on those HD platforms and just buy the Nintendo IP titles for the Wii.

Do you really expect a 2 year old port to generate sales?

*looks at RE4Wii.

Hmm. Even I'm confused.

 

[speculawyer]

What did Bully 360 do?

~100K . . . Not great but still 3X the Wii sales.

Edit: Here is a synopsis of TTWO's NPD performance:
TTWO NPD March revenue $56.8M up 42% y/y.
MLB2k8 led but Carnival games was #2 at about 150K units beating out #3 Bully:SE 360 at about 100K units. Also MLB2k8 Wii outsold PS3 by 60k to 30k indicating the importance of making a good sport game. NBA2k8 was better than live and outsold it, but the Show is better that MLB2k8 and is crushing it. Maybe exclusives are bad for everybody. (madden was down this year also)

 

[_Alkaline_]

~100K . . . Not great but still 3X the Wii sales.

Interesting, i didn't know that. Do you have a source? I'm interested to see if there's any other new numbers there as well.

 

[Tobor]

When we see a game on the level of production scale that MGS4 and others have on the HD consoles, on the Wii, THEN i will admit that those games actually can be done well and work well on the Wii.

Until then, i'm right.

Mario Galaxy is Mario, it sells because it's mario. Sonic doesn't sell shit these days but Mario and Sonic has sold what? 4 million copies? And it's a crappy game.

SSB sells because it's a bunch of nintendo characters fighting each other. Traditional? Tell me when a fighter like tekken is made on the Wii and then sells like SSB. I don't remember seeing Soul Calibur 2 selling nearly as good as SS last gen, which had link and that was the big reason for the GC version to sell so well.

Seriously, you can tell me a lot of stories, but i can tell you that i think you will be hard pressed to find a developer thinking that it's a good idea to make this massive production on the Wii when the Wii doesn't have the tech ability to show off such a production and when the reason why people love the wii is because of games like Wii sports.

Now the difference between you and me i guess is that i don't think that's negative, i like my Wii, and i like my HD consoles, they offer me different experiences, and i understand why the Wii experience is winning.

I do think it's completely counter nature to think the Wii is the same as the others, it's not, it's disruptive tech and as such it should be faced as disruptive tech, you adapt to it, you don't try to do the same in it that you do in the others. That's missing the point.

Now you might get upset because maybe you are stuck just with a Wii, but i don't have that problem and "love" both the consoles for what they are.

SMG does have the same production scale. But now you'll move the goalpost, and say it has to be a third party game.

 

[Zerachiel]

Anyone care to explain why it is that 3rd parties could compete on a Nintendo platform on the NES, SNES, GBA, and DS, but Nintendo manages to edge all them out on the Wii?

 

[_Alkaline_]

Anyone care to explain why it is that 3rd parties could compete on a Nintendo platform on the NES, SNES, GBA, and DS, but Nintendo manages to edge all them out on the Wii?

Ask all of those 3rd parties who have put little more than complete shit on the system.

Nintendo games will always gain the most sales on Nintendo consoles, but it's not exactly like many 3rd parties are actually trying to do anything about changing that trend.

 

[Taker666]

This has probably been posted already but just in case it hasn't-

http://marketnews.ca/news_detail.asp?nid=3646

The NPD Group, Inc. says that total life-to-date sales of the Wii in Canada, which now total 813,000 units, have surpassed the previous gaming system leader, Microsoft’s Xbox 360.

 

[Lobster]

~100K . . . Not great but still 3X the Wii sales.

Edit: Here is a synopsis of TTWO's NPD performance:
TTWO NPD March revenue $56.8M up 42% y/y.
MLB2k8 led but Carnival games was #2 at about 150K units beating out #3 Bully:SE 360 at about 100K units. Also MLB2k8 Wii outsold PS3 by 60k to 30k indicating the importance of making a good sport game. NBA2k8 was better than live and outsold it, but the Show is better that MLB2k8 and is crushing it. Maybe exclusives are bad for everybody. (madden was down this year also)

0_o

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

~100K . . . Not great but still 3X the Wii sales.

Edit: Here is a synopsis of TTWO's NPD performance:
TTWO NPD March revenue $56.8M up 42% y/y.
MLB2k8 led but Carnival games was #2 at about 150K units beating out #3 Bully:SE 360 at about 100K units. Also MLB2k8 Wii outsold PS3 by 60k to 30k indicating the importance of making a good sport game. NBA2k8 was better than live and outsold it, but the Show is better that MLB2k8 and is crushing it. Maybe exclusives are bad for everybody. (madden was down this year also)

Interesting.

Had the 360 version blown the Wii version out of the water (like 250K to 30) i'd be worried, but it honestly just looks like the interest wasn't there on both sides.

I'm surprised at the MLB sales. A friend bought MLB2K8 for the Wii and it's competent, but man do I miss EA's MVP series.

 

[Sharp]

Anyone care to explain why it is that 3rd parties could compete on a Nintendo platform on the NES, SNES, GBA, and DS, but Nintendo manages to edge all them out on the Wii?

Take a look at the best-selling games on any one of those consoles sometime and you'll see that Nintendo's software sales dwarf those of third parties to a ridiculous extent. Other than Sony (and even they arguably make a case for this with Gran Turismo) first parties have always exhibited commanding levels of dominance on their own consoles. Just for fun, though, let's look at the SNES:

# Super Mario World (20 million)[49]
# Donkey Kong Country (8 million)[50]
# Super Mario Kart (8 million)[40]
# Street Fighter II (6.3 million)[29]
# The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (4.61 million)[41]
# Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest (4.37 million approximately, 2.21 million in Japan,[43] 2.16 million in US)[18]
# Street Fighter II Turbo (4.1 million)[29]
# Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island (4 million)[49]
# Dragon Quest VI (3.2 million in Japan)[43][44]
# Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble! (2.89 million approximately, 1.77 million in Japan,[43] 1.12 million in US)[18]

Except for Street Fighter and Dragon Quest, the former of which was on par in importance with GTA now and the latter of which always sells incredibly well in Japan, the top list would be entirely Nintendo.

 

[WrikaWrek]

SMG does have the same production scale. But now you'll move the goalpost, and say it has to be a third party game.

How can i move the goalpost? You just scored an illegal goal, you have the referee in your pocket.

Only thing i can say is, what kind of call is that? Are you shitting me? Mario isn't on the same production scale of MGS4.

Voice acting, music, sound, graphics, animations, research, etc

 

[speculawyer]

This has probably been posted already but just in case it hasn't-
http://marketnews.ca/news_detail.asp?nid=3646
The NPD Group, Inc. says that total life-to-date sales of the Wii in Canada, which now total 813,000 units, have surpassed the previous gaming system leader, Microsoft’s Xbox 360.

The amazing thing is that was done w/o any NHL game available on the Wii.

 

[X26]

*looks at HW sales*

*looks at SW sales*

*scratches head*

what do people do with their wii's?

 

[Lobster]

How can i move the goalpost? You just scored an illegal goal, you have the referee in your pocket.

Only thing i can say is, what kind of call is that? Are you shitting me? Mario isn't on the same production scale of MGS4.

Voice acting, music, sound, graphics, animations, research, etc

What? You fucking kidding?

Mario is on the same production scale of MGS4..

Just because Konami is making a big deal about MGS4 doesn't mean it has higher production values..

 

[Epiphyte]

How can i move the goalpost? You just scored an illegal goal, you have the referee in your pocket.

Only thing i can say is, what kind of call is that? Are you shitting me? Mario isn't on the same production scale of MGS4.

Voice acting, music, sound, graphics, animations, research, etc

You've got a point there

Everything else, Mario has production values in spades. Are you seriously questioning the MUSIC for Christ's sake?

 

[Skellig Gra]

You've got a point there

Everything else, Mario has production values in spades. Are you seriously questioning the MUSIC for Christ's sake?

He obviously hasn't played it.

 

[_Alkaline_]

~100K . . . Not great but still 3X the Wii sales.

Edit: Here is a synopsis of TTWO's NPD performance:
TTWO NPD March revenue $56.8M up 42% y/y.
MLB2k8 led but Carnival games was #2 at about 150K units beating out #3 Bully:SE 360 at about 100K units. Also MLB2k8 Wii outsold PS3 by 60k to 30k indicating the importance of making a good sport game. NBA2k8 was better than live and outsold it, but the Show is better that MLB2k8 and is crushing it. Maybe exclusives are bad for everybody. (madden was down this year also)

Carnival Games is a monster. :lol

Interesting that MLB2k8 doubled the PS3 version's amount. The Wii version received horrible reviews.

*looks at HW sales*

*looks at SW sales*

*scratches head*

what do people do with their wii's?

Play games. What else would they do with it?

 

[Vaxadrin]

*looks at HW sales*

*looks at SW sales*

*scratches head*

what do people do with their wii's?

Build additions to their houses.

 

[WrikaWrek]

What? You fucking kidding?

Mario is on the same production scale of MGS4..

Just because Konami is making a big deal about MGS4 doesn't mean it has higher production values..

Ok this is just nuts. Tell me how is Mario on the same production scale of MGS4 please. What was it, they had to spend ridiculous amount of money in exactly what?

You've got a point there

Everything else, Mario has production values in spades. Are you seriously questioning the MUSIC for Christ's sake?

MGS4 has an hollywood composer. And did we forget Sound? What about art assets? Game engine? Online?

No, we just gonna forget those? So please tell me what is it about Mario that makes it on the level of MGS4 production wise.

 

[Sharp]

How can i move the goalpost? You just scored an illegal goal, you have the referee in your pocket.

Only thing i can say is, what kind of call is that? Are you shitting me? Mario isn't on the same production scale of MGS4.

Voice acting, music, sound, graphics, animations, research, etc

I urge you to listen to Mario Galaxy's soundtrack. Please. Even if you won't play the game on principle, it makes me sad to think there are people who haven't heard its music. And even besides that, Mario Galaxy's production values are incredibly high. If they were determined merely by "amount of money spent on the game" things would be different. Not that you're in a position to make this point anyway, because, as has been said, it's obvious that you haven't played either Galaxy or (clearly) MGS4.

Orchestrated music? Developing a new (and the best) engine on Wii?

Orchestrated music is only new to you dude. But the compositions are of incredible quality. Again: please listen to its music.

 

[_Alkaline_]

Ok this is just nuts. Tell me how is Mario on the same production scale of MGS4 please. What was it, they had to spend ridiculous amount of money in exactly what?

Orchestrated music? Developing a new (and the best) engine on Wii?

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

How can i move the goalpost? You just scored an illegal goal, you have the referee in your pocket.

Only thing i can say is, what kind of call is that? Are you shitting me? Mario isn't on the same production scale of MGS4.

Voice acting, music, sound, graphics, animations, research, etc

What the HECK are you saying against the OST of Mario Galaxy ???? Eh????

 

[Epiphyte]

Orchestrated music? Developing a new (and the best) engine on Wii?

The years of research and prototyping that evolved Mario 128 into a real game

 

[Skellig Gra]

MGS4 has an hollywood composer. And did we forget Sound? What about art assets? Game engine? Online?

No, we just gonna forget those? So please tell me what is it about Mario that makes it on the level of MGS4 production wise.

Please tell me how you can comment so specifically on 1) a game you have never played and 2) a game that isn't even released yet!

 

[jibblypop]

*looks at HW sales*

*looks at SW sales*

*scratches head*

what do people do with their wii's?

Wii had the number one selling game by a huge margin. It's obvious what they are doing with them.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I think WrikaWrek would do well to prove what other HD console games sport hollywood composers than continually point to the obvious exception (and not the rule) that is MGS4.

 

[_Alkaline_]

Orchestrated music is only new to you dude. But the compositions are of incredible quality. Again: please listen to its music.

Wait, are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me? I'm confused.

Anyway, the most important point is that Galaxy contains the best soundtrack in years.

 

[Vaxadrin]

In this conversation, Mario Galaxy is the exception, not the rule.

 

[Sharp]

Wait, are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me? I'm confused.

Anyway, the most important point is that Galaxy contains the best soundtrack in years.

I was talking to you and then to Wrika. But I've since realized that he judges musical quality on the basis of how much money was spent in the production of the work, rather than by actually listening to it, so I'll stop asking.

 

[Culex]

How can i move the goalpost? You just scored an illegal goal, you have the referee in your pocket.

Only thing i can say is, what kind of call is that? Are you shitting me? Mario isn't on the same production scale of MGS4.

Voice acting, music, sound, graphics, animations, research, etc

Super Mario Galaxy had the largest buget of any previous Mario game EVER. The title screams production values, from start to finish. Short of a few flaws, it does everything a game should do in it's genre and then some. Graphics, music, gameplay, controls. It's all there.

If you don't think it's on the same level field of production value, then you obviously have never played the game.

 

[frankie_baby]

Oh man, that is pathetic! The Wii really is the kiddie/senior/family console. I can understand the weak manhunt 2 sales, but Bully is a really fun open world game but with lots of non family game mischief. And there are many other examples. Like EA's good Medal of Honor game that didn't sell all that well.

I think that most of the more hardcore gamers that own Wiis also own 360s or PS3s such that they buy their shooters & sports games on those HD platforms and just buy the Nintendo IP titles for the Wii.

it was a very poorly advertised 2 year late ps2 port that didnt do that great first time round, expect the same from okami next month

 

[schuelma]

Wii had the number one selling game by a huge margin. It's obvious what they are doing with them.

Seriously, this (the post you're referring to) should be a fucking bannable offense when Smash Brothers sells 2.7 million copies.

Come on people, try harder.

 

[Epiphyte]

Ok this is just nuts. Tell me how is Mario on the same production scale of MGS4 please. What was it, they had to spend ridiculous amount of money in exactly what?



MGS4 has an hollywood composer. And did we forget Sound? What about art assets? Game engine? Online?

No, we just gonna forget those? So please tell me what is it about Mario that makes it on the level of MGS4 production wise.

The sound designer in Galaxy went so far as to sync up all the sound effects with the music.

When you gather star bits, they chime in key and rhythm with the current song

Wholly new game engine, best on the Wii, also an artistic design marvel.

So yes, it easily matches MGS4 in production values. Perhaps you should PLAY it, before you go and make sweeping statements that reveal your lack of knowledge.

 

[pswii60]

Wii had the number one selling game by a huge margin. It's obvious what they are doing with them.

Nah, everyone knows that people are really just using their Wiis for the voting channel. No-one uses them for games. Everyone just watches Blu-Rays on the PS3, everyone watches downloadable TV shows and movies on their 360. Not much game playing going on this gen.

 

[WrikaWrek]

Please tell me how you can comment so specifically on 1) a game you have never played and 2) a game that isn't even released yet!

I played Galaxy. And i can comment of information available thank you very much.

And it's really impossible to argue against people who think that a game that A) Doesn't have the level of Art Assets of MGS4, B) Doesn't have Voice Acting, C) High end engine for a system like the PS3, D) Doesn't have Amount of recorded sound that Mgs4 has, is on the same level of production scale. It isn't.

Say, Mario Galaxy is game to cost 15 million dollars + to Nintendo while MGs4 is game to cost 40 million dolars + to Konami.

I think WrikaWrek would do well to prove what other HD console games sport hollywood composers than continually point to the obvious exception (and not the rule) that is MGS4.

Lair, Uncharted. But yeah, stick to the music, dismiss the rest.

 

[Lobster]

Ok this is just nuts. Tell me how is Mario on the same production scale of MGS4 please. What was it, they had to spend ridiculous amount of money in exactly what?

The orchestrated music? They didn't go to some Hollywood composer..They instead got some of the best composers in the videogame industry to compose the music and then got a professional orchestra to play the music.

The graphics? They are the best on Wii and even compare to some next-gen games. You can call bullshit on that claim but then you'd be calling bullshit on a lot of reviewers and GAFfers.

Research? Mario Galaxy didn't magically happen..this game was in the planning ever since the release of Mario 64.

 

[Sharp]

Nah, everyone knows that people are really just using their Wiis for the voting channel. No-one uses them for games.

Voting channel is awesome dude. Also: Nintendo knows everything about you and your family.

 

[HK-47]

Because MK:Wii is totally DD right?

Maybe do some reasearch first?

Mario Kart Wii is kicking ass already.

In UK it has outsold all 5 previous Mario games first weeks on Wii combined in its first week. Brawl is not as big as Mario Kart in Europe..

In Japan it has opened at 600k..

A RECORD FOR THE SERIES! YES EVEN MORE THAN THE DS VERSION!

Given the fact that it appeals to a broader audience..its going to outsell Brawl easily in Japan.

We gotta see what happens in US though.



Because ones a racing game and ones a fighter? Racing games are much more casual friendly than fighting games..

First part, this is the first time Nintendo has a home console with tons of appeal in Europe, so you might wanna back off until Smash takes the stage.

Second part is fucking opinion. How do you quantify "more casual?"

 

[Shaheed79]

Do you really expect a 2 year old port to generate sales?

*looks at RE4Wii.

Hmm. Even I'm confused.

RE4 is the best M rated game ever produced so it's not surprising. The game deserves to sell 20 million.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

it was a very poorly advertised 2 year late ps2 port that didnt do that great first time round, expect the same from okami next month

I'll probably pay for saying this, but I expect about 35-40K for Okami when next month's NPD rolls around, and I feel i'm being generous.

Let's be honest, it bombed on the PS2, I doubt the Wii will do much more for it.

 

[schuelma]

I'll probably pay for saying this, but I expect about 35-40K for Okami when next month's NPD rolls around, and I feel i'm being generous.

Let's be honest, it bombed on the PS2, I doubt the Wii will do much more for it.

Agreed. If hits 50K or above I'll be surprised.

 

[Sharp]

I played Galaxy. And i can comment of information available thank you very much.

And it's really impossible to argue against people who think that a game that A) Doesn't have the level of Art Assets of MGS4, B) Doesn't have Voice Acting, C) High end engine for a system like the PS3, D) Doesn't have Amount of recorded sound that Mgs4 has, is on the same level of production scale. It isn't.

Say, Mario Galaxy is game to cost 15 million dollars + to Nintendo while MGs4 is game to cost 40 million dolars + to Konami.

It's not on the same production scale, correct. But its production values, which is not quite the same thing, are through the roof. It is extraordinarily polished--one of the most polished games I've played, very near Super Metroid--and I doubt very much whether MGS4 will top it in that respect. Hell, it's even 60fps, which is something I really wish more games would do these days. This is not the same as saying that it is anywhere close to as large in scope or execution, mind you, but I think you're being a little short-sighted if you say money = production values.

 

[besada]

Yeah and where the hell are those tiny developers going to go?

Suda51 would have not been holding a party for selling 100k if his game was on the 360 or Ps3..

They're going to go to PSN/XBLA/WiiWare, where they're already going.

You're just wrong about Suda51. Please, by all means, find me a single open world game on the 360 that sold LESS than 100k. Anything. You can take a crap on a disc and sell 100k on the 360.

Anyone know what the worst selling game on the 360 is? Anyone have a list of the games that sold less than 100k? I promise you that list is shorter on the 360 than it is on the Wii.

Which is why Suda51 is talking about doing his next project on the 360.

 

[frankie_baby]

Agreed. If hits 50K or above I'll be surprised.

thing is though if it only sells 50k it'll probably have made a profit, dont forget it was ported in a year by 8 people

 

[Lobster]

First part, this is the first time Nintendo has a home console with tons of appeal in Europe, so you might wanna back off until Smash takes the stage.

Second part is fucking opinion. How do you quantify "more casual?"

First, no it isn't.

Second, I thought that anyone could agree that racing games were much more casual friendly than fighters..The proof is in the sales of racing games vs fighting games.