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[reksveks]

Is that what you're saying is happening?

It does sound like that is what Systemr123 is implying which is dumb imo (trying to be respectful here)

 

[The_Mike]

I found the game interesting so went in blind.

Found out it was a souls like Game, and shut it down.

I'm a part of the statistic.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

I'm a part of the statistic.

I intend to play it, and was going to a few days ago. I loaded it up, started the first cutscene and my friends asked if I wanted to play something with them, so I quit and will go back to it.

#WeAreThe67%

 

[systemr123]

"Well, 5m people watched every single second of 'war man: the story of saving America from the libs' but 7m people watched "my big gay wedding: Caribbean edition" for an average of 32 seconds before turning it off" what do you want to fund next, Mr Netflix?

"The numbers make it obvious. Cancel war man. Green light for 10 series of MBGW. Let's see if we can film in North Korea for the next one" (glitter and rainbows appear).

Is that what you're saying is happening?

Yes that's exactly what's happening. You can see the content quality of Netflix going down in spades, same for HBO Max and other services. Bar some excellent programs of course, but most becomes more and more crap yes. I wish it wasn't so. Just look at The Witcher, what a clusterf*ck it's becoming, and then that prologue that's only about being woke etc. And you know what? I guarantee you nobody is watching it, yet they keep making more woke sh*t, and actually keep cancelling top 10 shows all the time.

 

[Punished Miku]

I haven't even really started playing the game yet. Still working on Atomic Heart. I do think that first boss is kind of absurd though from the demo.

Fun fact: I beat "Japanese Hard" difficulty on Wanted: Dead the other day on Xbox and it said it was at 0.44%.

 

[Nestunt]

trying through Gamepass is different from the commitment of buying the game

it's the same for Netflix vs going to the theater

 

[Batiman]

well that should be obvious. As with any subscription service would indicate.

 

[Spyxos]

I beat the first boss in the demo, but now I didn't feel like it after 3-4 times and I don't think I'll keep trying.

 

[Urban]

GP effect. Why commit ?

 

[Elios83]

Not everyone is into super hard games. Gamepass offers a way to just try the game and drop it if you understand it's not for you.
There's not a big mistery to unveil here, also the second phase of the boss (that I defeated in the demo) is almost impossible to beat if you don't learn how to deflect the critical attacks.

 

[Spyxos]

GP effect. Why commit ?

I think not. I have played through a lot of GP games. Wo Long is just nothing special.

 

[IDKFA]

Played it for 15 mins on Ganepass and probably won't go back. Didn't suck me in.

To be fair, I do this with 90% of games on Ganepass and PS Plus. If I'm not hooked in the first 15 mins then the game gets deleted.

 

[SteadyEvo]

I'm in the 33% I'm a winner!

The 1st boss the tiger or the guy that transforms and spams unfair attacks with his 2nd phase tentacles? I beat both and dropped the game afterwards. Gamepass just has too many options which is good… but bad for my attention span.

 

[Black_Stride]

trying through Gamepass is different from the commitment of buying the game

it's the same for Netflix vs going to the theater

Ive never walked out of any movie.......even movies I absolutely hated.
But ive NOT finished like a million movies I stared on streaming services or that i borrowed from friends.


With Gamepass i can start a game, if i aint feeling it, I will drop it....no harm no foul other than having wasted some time.
Literally one of the greatest features of Gamepass is getting to actually try games, before committing any real dollars towards it.
Yes, I know I can ask for refunds and shit......but im so so lazy....so so so lazy, if i buy the game and dont like it in the first 48 chances are it still stays in my library forever.

 

[pasterpl]

I am buying COD every year and haven’t played the last one at all. Preordered Elden ring - same, haven’t played it at all. Same with Judgment and couple other titles. During previous generation, I have preordered, bought physical editions on most of playstation exclusives and played Spider-Man 2h on my PS4 pro, 4 hours of horizon, 2 h ghosts of Tsushima, death stranding 4h, 1h the order, 1h driveclub, 20h GoW, 20h uncharted 4 etc. point I am making is if the game is boring, doesn’t appeal to me I will move to other title that I found more engaging.

 

[begotten]

We don't need a thread about completion %s all the time, we should all know by now how people who main Gamepass function.

> Be loud on forums and Twitter about how good Phil Spencer is
> Download and play the new Gamepass game for 10 minutes
> Uninstall and go back to Forza

 

[Alx]

Gamepass has issues with player retention since it sort of renders the games available worthless. So it’s very common to just download, play a game for a few minutes and then remove them again.

And that’s not a problem, either for the user, the game publisher or even Microsoft.
You give easy access to a lot of content, many games will be discarded quickly until something interesting is found. As long as that will happen, the gamer will keep his subscription since he'll end up finding a game he likes, publisher will get larger visibility, and MS will get its monthly fee. Retention is important for the service, not for individual games.

 

[systemr123]

And that’s not a problem, either for the user, the game publisher or even Microsoft.
You give easy access to a lot of content, many games will be discarded quickly until something interesting is found. As long as that will happen, the gamer will keep his subscription since he'll end up finding a game he likes, publisher will get larger visibility, and MS will get its monthly fee. Retention is important for the service, not for individual games.

It becomes a problem when those numbers influence what games they’ll put up on the service. But yes, the numbers by itself don’t pose a problem, it’s just very misleading.

As a service you probably want to be know as great quality with enough content, vs, a lot of content of average quality.

So if they go with adding content based on 20 million people that play a game for 10 minutes vs e.g. 5 million people that play a game for like 60% or more, it will be detrimental to the quality of the service. I’m not saying MS does this, but they keep shouting only download numbers.

 

[Kaachan]

I figured this would happen, the first boss is too hard. This game needs an easy mode.

He's fine. You can literally block 95% of his regular attacks and he only has 2 un-blockables. People just need practice using their parry button

 

[Roman Empire]

All Pansies!

 

[Punished Miku]

It becomes a problem when those numbers influence what games they’ll put up on the service. But yes, the numbers by itself don’t pose a problem, it’s just very misleading.

As a service you probably want to be know as great quality with enough content, vs, a lot of content of average quality.

So if they go with adding content based on 20 million people that play a game for 10 minutes vs e.g. 5 million people that play a game for like 60% or more, it will be detrimental to the quality of the service. I’m not saying MS does this, but they keep shouting only download numbers.

They pick Immortality and Citizen Sleeper for day ones on the service. They picked some of the most obscure and niche games I've ever played, including computer strategy games. They also look at PC stats. For the last 2 years they've shown they are actually really good at picking a wide variety of titles. And honestly, 33% for any achievement is actually pretty good. This entire thread is worrying about nothing. The game's only even been out 6 days.

 

[Gambit2483]

I feel like Gamepass may come with a "renter's mentality" for many people. When you rent you feel much less investment into the product/home and therefore don't feel obligated to invest or "get your money worth" so to speak. In that regard I can see players getting frustrated and feeling no need to invest and just move on. It also may lead to devaluing games and gaming in general.

There are pros of Gamepass but also definitely some cons to it as well

 

[systemr123]

They pick Immortality and Citizen Sleeper for day ones on the service. They picked some of the most obscure and niche games I've ever played, including computer strategy games. They also look at PC stats. For the last 2 years they've shown they are actually really good at picking a wide variety of titles. And honestly, 33% for any achievement is actually pretty good. This entire thread is worrying about nothing. The game's only even been out 6 days.

Yes and already they lost 67% of the players who downloaded it. Lets see how many will continue to finish at least half the game .

 

[Punished Miku]

Yes and already they lost 67% of the players who downloaded it. Lets see how many will continue to finish at least half the game .

Only on GP is that seen as a negative on the players themselves lol. Usually you look at percentage completion rates to see if that says something about the design of the game. People will play what they feel like.

If you read my post at all, my point is that GP has a wide variety of titles with niche appeal far less mainstream than this. Just look at how niche Pentiment is. I don't think you guys have anything to worry about. They pick a wide variety of titles they know don't appeal to everyone. They actually see GP specifically as a vessel for getting people to try more genres they normally don't even play. It's part of their whole strategy with the service. Where you guys see 33% as bad, they may see it as progress that a wider number of people even tried a Team Ninja game and now know what it is.

 

[systemr123]

Only on GP is that seen as a negative on the players themselves lol. Usually you look at percentage completion rates to see if that says something about the design of the game. People will play what they feel like.

If you read my post at all, my point is that GP has a wide variety of titles with niche appeal far less mainstream than this. Just look at how niche Pentiment is. I don't think you guys have anything to worry about.

There is a lot of variety yes, that I can totally agree with you on.

 

[ReBurn]

Yes and already they lost 67% of the players who downloaded it. Let's see how many will continue to finish at least half the game .

You're making out like being able to try a game to see if you like it and walk away if you don't is a bad thing, and feeling obligated to keep playing because you paid $60 for it is a good thing. Such a weird take.

This statistic shows what is good about game pass, not what's bad about it. Even if it's the only game someone played this month they're only out 15 bucks as opposed to paying 60 bucks for it and feeling like shit because you spent money on something you hate and you probably can't return.

 

[Sanepar]

That is why I can't find anyone to coop.

 

[thief183]

The game is awesome, a bit too easy after the first boss... that actually wasn't that hard at all... took me 4 tries... and I'm not so good at those type of games.

It totally feels like players don't want to get invested, don't want to get "tested", and I can understand that. Being on gamepass made a lot of "casuals" try the game and at the first difficulty they drop off, it is normal it happens with sports for example, how many of you tried a sport for 1 or 2 times only?

 

[thief183]

That is why I can't find anyone to coop.

I think it is because it is too easy...

 

[DForce]

I expect low completion rates from a lot of Game Pass games. There's a lot to offer, so if they're not having fun or find a part that's too difficult, then they'll just move on to the next game.

 

[systemr123]

You're making out like being able to try a game to see if you like it and walk away if you don't is a bad thing, and feeling obligated to keep playing because you paid $60 for it is a good thing. Such a weird take.

This statistic shows what is good about game pass, not what's bad about it. Even if it's the only game someone played this month they're only out 15 bucks as opposed to paying 60 bucks for it and feeling like shit because you spent money on something you hate and you probably can't return.

No that's not my take at all, but it is true that people that spend a full price on a game tend to play the game much longer and they choose something much more to their liking (mostly because they did their research and know beforehand this game is something they will like). My take is about the overall quality of the service going up or down is depending on how you as a company measure things and react on those measurements. I just read Netflix changed their measurements again a short while ago and it's for the better. Not the amount of people that watch for a short bit, but they changed it again to actually watching people. Here is a link: https://www.cbr.com/netflix-viewer-metrics-radical-change/. So this change is for the better, and we will probably see the first results on quality of content because of it. Now, MS measures by download, which is the same kind of measurement as people who watch the first 2 minutes of a show. At least, that is what they market to everyone. But to actual measure quality and things people want to keep their gamepass for, you should take the new Netflix approach, which actually was their old approach until woke took over.

 

[knocksky]

It's safe to say that a major factor here is Wo Long's availability in Xbox Game Pass, with any subscribers free to jump into Team Ninja's new adventure and try it out. There's a good chance that many players will simply bounce off the game and never come back after being knocked around by the challenging first boss, and some may not even have made it that far before deciding the game wasn't for them and giving up. Compare the Xbox numbers to other platforms where the game isn't available as part of a subscription service and there's a huge disparity that backs up this notion — Journey's Beginning sits at a 33% unlock rate on Xbox, compared to a whopping 85% on both PlayStation and Steam, where players have had to buy the game and are therefore naturally more committed to getting through it.

There then follows a pretty steep but steady drop-off in unlocks for the rest of the 17 story-based achievements, gradually falling to just 2% by the time we get to the final story pops — that lower tail end is to be expected when the game has barely been out a week and many will still be working their way through it. As you might expect from a dedicated achievement-hunting community, tracked TrueAchievements players are off to a considerably better start, with roughly half of those with Wo Long on their tags now past the first hurdle. Interestingly, though, TA player unlocks actually dip below the global Xbox level slightly in the mid-to-late-game, before evening out to the same 2% unlock rate as the wider Xbox pool on the last few achievements.

http://[URL]https://www.trueachievements.com/n53124/wo-long-xbox-first-boss-achievement

[/URL]

Or if the game is not enjoyable, you don't have to punish yourself by continuing if you haven't paid good money for it.

All them players on other platforms are just trying to get their monies worth perhaps?

 

[reksveks]

One more person for the ignore list I guess.

Being compelled to 'enjoy' a piece of media cause you paid for it is a bad motivation. The 'good' games will get their dues.

 

[TheGodfather07]

I have noticed this from many games. The early game achievements percentage is very very low. It seems like most people ain't playing these games for even 10 minutes and then never playing them again. Most people ain't even completing tutorial areas.

 

[Punished Miku]

I have noticed this from many games. The early game achievements percentage is very very low. It seems like most people ain't playing these games for even 10 minutes and then never playing them again. Most people ain't even completing tutorial areas.

I bailed on Soul Hackers 2 in like 15 minutes, and I was skipping all the dialogue. Atrocious game.

 

[BennyBlanco]

33% is higher than i thought it would be. that boss is an asshole and also sold me on the game lol.

 

[Hendrick's]

Seems about right. Xbox gamers have too many games.

 

[DavidGzz]

My Diablo hype is out of control so I am playing D2 and D3 but I'll get back to Wo Long later. I am one of those 33% for now.

 

[Kagero]

Not only does X-Box have no real games, but they also don’t have any real gamers. Am I doing this right? JOKES! I’m just having fun relax. I’m a death stranding fan so I probably have no reason to be trolling

 

[ReBurn]

No that's not my take at all, but it is true that people that spend a full price on a game tend to play the game much longer and they choose something much more to their liking (mostly because they did their research and know beforehand this game is something they will like). My take is about the overall quality of the service going up or down is depending on how you as a company measure things and react on those measurements. I just read Netflix changed their measurements again a short while ago and it's for the better. Not the amount of people that watch for a short bit, but they changed it again to actually watching people. Here is a link: https://www.cbr.com/netflix-viewer-metrics-radical-change/. So this change is for the better, and we will probably see the first results on quality of content because of it. Now, MS measures by download, which is the same kind of measurement as people who watch the first 2 minutes of a show. At least, that is what they market to everyone. But to actual measure quality and things people want to keep their gamepass for, you should take the new Netflix approach, which actually was their old approach until woke took over.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. A measurement Microsoft shares publicly is how any people play a game. They don't share how many downloads it had. The point of game pass is to allow people to play games. You can play a large number of games on game pass without ever downloading them.

Beyond number of people who have played some games I don't know that Microsoft has shared any engagement metrics. We know that some executive bonus targets are tied to subscriber count and they missed those the last couple of years. Outside of those we don't know how Microsoft measures success. What we do know is that the number of people who finish a game isn't a good metric for measuring that because a lot of people don't finish games even when they buy them at retail.

 

[cireza]

I bailed on Soul Hackers 2 in like 15 minutes, and I was skipping all the dialogue. Atrocious game.

I think I remember telling you it was pretty bad. Not surprised.

 

[recma12]

33% is higher than i thought it would be. that boss is an asshole and also sold me on the game lol.

Same here. Expected high 10s low 20s for this boss.
Always tough to compare but the Wo Long "tutorial boss" is tougher than any bosses in Elden Ring besides Melania (IMO).

I found him very tough but after killing a bunch of other bosses I realized that they all have a jump attack, a flurry and a strong attack with long windup.

 

[Punished Miku]

I think I remember telling you it was pretty bad. Not surprised.

 

[MarkMe2525]

I'm on the 4th chapter, but that first boss gave me the hardest time. I'm not surprised at all.

 

[DR3AM]

I just finally beat the first guy after a million tries. As much as people hate it, Souls like games should ALWAYS have an easy mode.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

Why do any of you care how people enjoy their videogames?

 

[Punished Miku]

Why do any of you care how people enjoy their videogames?

Gamers 2007: Oh wow, I beat a difficult boss and got this achievement. Cool! I better show it off so that people know I'm better at the game than others.
Gamers 2023: The achievement completion rate is unacceptably low. This could lead to game devaluation and the stagnation of the entire industry.

 

[StereoVsn]

Seems reasonable rates to me. People try the game "for free" decide it's not for them and move on. That's the purpose of GamePass.

I am one of these folks, lol. I downloaded, tried it, and noped out. Would never buy the game on another platform since I don't like Parry gameplay (block and dodge FTW).

This situation does illustrate that GamePass "engagement" numbers should be taken with a grain of salt though.

 

[A2una1]

Seems reasonable rates to me. People try the game "for free" decide it's not for them and move on. That's the purpose of GamePass.

I am one of these folks, lol. I downloaded, tried it, and noped out. Would never buy the game on another platform since I don't like Parry gameplay (block and dodge FTW).

This situation does illustrate that GamePass "engagement" numbers should be taken with a grain of salt though.

Pretty much this. I didn't find the game to be that interesting and I also kind of suffer from a little "souls fatigue" so I couldn't be bothered to play the game any more than I did. If it wouldn't be "free" on game-pass I wouldn't even had a look at it...

 

[Stuart360]

I watched all CohhCarnage's streams of the game, and the amount of poeple in the chat saying 'i couldnt even beat the first boss so i quit lol' posts was huge. I'd say taking that into account, 33% is actually pretty high for a game thats on Gamepass.