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ONM Interview - Shu Takumi felt the Ace Attorney should've ended after the 3rd game
- Thread starter L~A
- Start date
WrenchNinja
Member
I agree, his story should have ended with Trials. It was a fitting end for his story. He was so shoehorned into AA4. Didn't let Apollo have any chance to shine with him stealing the spotlight, and then had the dumb dark age of the law subplot tied to him in AA5.
That game is supposed to be radically different from the other games in the series. My guess is, after Ghost Trick bombed, Capcom kinda forced him to tie his next game to the Ace Attorney series. One thing's for sure : we won't have Phoenix in that game.
His new game is supposed to be completely different from past Ace Attorney games, so I guess he doesn't mind it too much. After Ghost Trick didn't exactly turn out to be a financial hit, I wouldn't be surprised if he has lost the privilege to work on new IPs at Capcom, either. :S
Glittering Crux
Banned
Didn't they say he was doing an Ace Attorney reboot? I thought there were 2 separate Ace Attorney games: a sixth one in the Phoenix Wright universe and Shu Takami's.
Dragon1893
Member
I'm playing Dual Destinies right now. My first time playing a Phoenix wright game, didn't know what to expect but I'm enjoying it. It's the fifth game in the franchise right?
Yup, though it's technically the 7th if you take into account the two Edgeworth spin-offs. Make sure you go play them all (well, except the 2nd spin-off, never localised...)!
I agree with him, but not Ace Attorney as a series but rather Phoenix Wright saga. The spiky lawyer in blue suit's story should've done with Trials and Tribulations, which is definitely a perfect closure. While Ace Attorney 5 is quite good, I feel that Phoenix will just dragged the story down, making both Athena and Apollo having a hard time to shine on their own.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Well apollo justice was bad (and not only by the forced Phoenix Wright) while dual destinies is the best one after trials and tribulations. And that was not Shu Takumi, I dont mind continuing the story of Phoenix (and now pals because its like a real lawyer firm) if it's done right like DD by another person.
Orniletter
Banned
I´m glad the series hasn´t ended after the third.
AA4 blew it´s chance to establish Apollo as a new MC (which is absolutely the fault of the writers for various reasons)
....but Dual Destinies handled the multiple lawyers-thing very well.
I´m in for AA6 and the new Takumi AA game !
AA4 blew it´s chance to establish Apollo as a new MC (which is absolutely the fault of the writers for various reasons)
....but Dual Destinies handled the multiple lawyers-thing very well.
I´m in for AA6 and the new Takumi AA game !
A.D. Skinner
Member
I will take all Ace Attorney related things I can get. If only AAI2 and AA5 had UK retail releases.
It just released too late, at that point pretty much everything but Pokémon was bombing on DS. I don't think the iOS port did any better either.
I feel like both Ghost Trick and Okamiden would've been better served being held back and reworked into early 3DS releases.
I respect Shu Takumi for everything he has done, including Ghost Trick, but I really don't agree with him on this. AA4 was by far the worst game in the series, but AA5 fixed built upon it and fixed everything that was wrong. No, not just because Phoenix Wright was back in the lead, but also because of the new characters. Apollo had no personality in AA4, the Gavin brothers' relationship was never really explored, and Phoenix was very out of character. That, and the cases (except for the first one) were quite boring, and the last one barely made any sense.
Looking at AA5, it made Apollo a much more interesting character and the overall plot was much more intriguing. I might sound like an Ace Attorney hater, but it's actually one of my top favorite franchises. I just don't like the direction Takumi ended up going in.
Looking at AA5, it made Apollo a much more interesting character and the overall plot was much more intriguing. I might sound like an Ace Attorney hater, but it's actually one of my top favorite franchises. I just don't like the direction Takumi ended up going in.
Totally agree with him about Phoenix, but not about the series as a whole. Phoenix should have been done after part 3. Shoehorning him into Apollo Justice kinda ruined it. It had a real Snake/Raiden feel to it. 'Why am I playing as this fucking idiot when that experienced badass is wright, there!'
He was used better in AA5
D, but even then he doesn't seem as experienced as he should, and the two younger lawyers could have carried things on their own. At the same time, I'd hate to lose characters from the past such as Maya, Ema and Pearls, and seeing the interactions of past characters with Phoenix is still very enjoyable.
By the way, not saying Maya, Ema or Pearls are in AA4 or AA5, just giving examples.
He was used better in AA5
D, but even then he doesn't seem as experienced as he should, and the two younger lawyers could have carried things on their own. At the same time, I'd hate to lose characters from the past such as Maya, Ema and Pearls, and seeing the interactions of past characters with Phoenix is still very enjoyable.By the way, not saying Maya, Ema or Pearls are in AA4 or AA5, just giving examples.
Hellraider
Member
Wasn't Shu Takumi's involvement in those two games much less compared to the Phoenix Wright trilogy?
Fourth Storm
Member
Would have been nice, but not in this industry.
How's the fifth? I thought 4 was decent enough but Investigations really turned me off, story-wise, and I never finished.
How's the fifth? I thought 4 was decent enough but Investigations really turned me off, story-wise, and I never finished.
You don't sound like a hater at all, you sound like the typical AA fan. I'm right there with you, except that I think AA5 brought its own share of (less serious) problems to the series. If it wasn't for Guy Eldoon, Trucy, and the crazy fuckin' mad magicians (seriously, these assholes) AA4 would have been a total disaster for me.
Even just typing out Guy Eldoon made me laugh again. Noodle Guy. Brilliant.
Hellraider
Member
Investigations was great (no idea why its story turned you off) but 5 is even better.
wsoxfan1214
Banned
Good thing it didn't.
Loved AA5.
Loved AA5.
Takumi was behind AA4, but I'm pretty sure he had no input at all in the fifth game. He made a mess of a game and refused to tie the loose ends in a sequel. He didn't even make the new character seem interesting at all. My point was that they fixed everything he did in AA5, so the franchise might actually be better off without him.
I think the franchise is in a better position now than ever before. I loved the three-lawyer system of AA5. It has a lot of potential to explore in future games.
I agree with Shu. I actually liked hobo Phoenix in AA4 but Apollo needed more time in the spotlight. Letting Apollo build his own universe would've been great, but he could only go halfway there. Also Shu wasn't the sole writer on AA4, unlike the previous three titles.
I'm not even convinced Phoenix was necessary at all in AA5 - unpopular opinion incoming - I thought that it was the worst Ace Attorney yet. Phoenix was frustratingly in the dark when he shouldn't have been (how could he not know Athena's history?), Athena's case was personal but she didn't get fleshed out enough and came off as another immature sidekick compared to say young Mia and Apollo being connected through the most ridiculously arbitrary coincidence (and that's saying a lot in this series) of being best friends with Clay at the same place where everything went down with Athena AND him not knowing about it. Add the streamlining to the mix. I still really love the game, but it's my least favorite.
I'm not even convinced Phoenix was necessary at all in AA5 - unpopular opinion incoming - I thought that it was the worst Ace Attorney yet. Phoenix was frustratingly in the dark when he shouldn't have been (how could he not know Athena's history?), Athena's case was personal but she didn't get fleshed out enough and came off as another immature sidekick compared to say young Mia and Apollo being connected through the most ridiculously arbitrary coincidence (and that's saying a lot in this series) of being best friends with Clay at the same place where everything went down with Athena AND him not knowing about it. Add the streamlining to the mix. I still really love the game, but it's my least favorite.
chickdigger802
Banned
AA4 would have been a much better game if it was really all about Apollo, and not him being kind of a side character while phoenix is still pretty much the lead.
AA5 doesn't help 4 where the kinda underwhelming ending of 4 with the jural system could have been redeemed with a sequel... but was just completely dropped instead.
AA5 doesn't help 4 where the kinda underwhelming ending of 4 with the jural system could have been redeemed with a sequel... but was just completely dropped instead.
Magicpaint
Member
Yep. I liked it a lot more than Ghost Trick too, which was a huge disappointment.
FlyingSaucer
Banned
Shu is absolutely right, all the new PW episodes after 3 weren't necessary.
Judging by Ghost Trick I'd love to see him work more often on new IP/new gameplay.
Judging by Ghost Trick I'd love to see him work more often on new IP/new gameplay.
BassForever
Member
AA5 and the AAI games indicate to me more AA is a good thing. AA4 was a disaster and AA5 was incredible so just let the AAI team continue to work on the mainline while Shu does his spinoffs.
In the case of Ace Attorney, I do not agree. I have never found any of the over-arching Phoenix Wright story to be very interesting, and would be perfectly happy if all of the cases were self-contained stories. In that context, all that really matters is that the characters have good chemistry, and the chemistry between Phoenix, Maya, and Gumshoe worked a lot better than Apollo, Trucy, and Ema.
There is ample evidence that this sort of formula works in the world of police procedurals on television.
There is ample evidence that this sort of formula works in the world of police procedurals on television.
Fourth Storm
Member
I remember reading the opposite. That Takumi was more involved in 5 than 4. Can someone confirm? I'll try and search.
Shu was director and writer of the first three.
He was a co-writer for AA4, and not the director.
AA5 had a different team and Shu had little to no involvement
For Ace Attorney vs. Layton, Shu was the designer and writer.
He was too busy since he was working on Layton vs. Wright with Level-5.
Fourth Storm
Member
Thanks, mang.
I wouldn't be against Phoenix completely leaving the spotlight for AA6. I think DD made people warm up to Apollo a bit better, and Athena was an interesting character to follow too. I don't think we need to play as Phoenix anymore. In DD, he only really stepped in after
Athena was arrested and Apollo abandoned the agency.
Apollo become a weak character in his own game is because Phoenix stole all the spotlight. He basically went 180 after what happened to him and that makes him much more interesting character. Phoenix's development is also a reason why I disagree with your notion that Phoenix acting out of his character. He is not because it's natural. Do you expect him to happy-go-lucky after what happened to him 7 years ago? I'm glad that they didn't completely reversed Phoenix's personality and kept some of his, mature "hobo" self. As for Gavin Brothers relationship, I agree that they are severely undercooked.
Heck, Kristoph is one of the best culprit for his persona alone, and might topped Dahli if its not because severely unexplored as character.
While AA5 is a good on its own, the whole game and the ending make me worried on the future direction of the series. The dragged down final confrotation and the sudden "power of friendship" bullshit at the end almost undone all the perfectness the director have crafted in Case 4 and Case 5 up to the reveal. I'm seriusly worried about it and I hope they make eat crow for that.
Same for me, but I'll add
Kristoph to the list for his sheer persona alone. Sad the guy so lacking and severely unexplored character-wise
AA5 will be not the worst as long as JFA exist.
JFA will not be the worst as long as 2-4 exists.
And I'm actually a fan of 2-2, and when I finally replayed 2-3 recently it was nearly as bad as I remembered. I dislike 2-1 the most.
Ultimadrago
Member
2-4 is almost perfect as a stand alone case and it almost carried JFA by itself. No other case in the series have the same atmosphere and tone like that one. If only it doesn't have that one particular plot hole.
Adrian Andrews's magic fingerprint. Seriously Shu Takumi could write it better than this.
That's for me though, and I can undestand if case 2-4 make it for you.
How about a game with the three Themis Academy kids as the stars, lol. I'd totally play Robin Newman: Ace Attorney.
I'm seriously couldn't fathom why judges really underpresented here in the series (but I guess they did with AAI 2 right?).
This lines up with what he's said in the past about AA4 and AA5. I can't blame him - AA3 was pretty clearly designed to wrap up the entire trilogy and bring Phoenix's story to a logical close.
I've also suspected this for a while, though I'm not sure the evidence backs it up, so to speak. Takumi was approached about working on PLvsPW before GT even released in Japan, and (according to interviews) he agreed to work on it then, much to Inafune and Hino's surprise. He also seemed to really enjoy the idea of a "magical" mystery, which may have gotten him over any reluctance. (The fact it wasn't a continuation of the story also probably played a role.)
GT then flopped, but by that time he was already working on PLvsPW, which sold decently in the end. So it's hard to say. The fact he's being allowed to make a reinvention of the series suggests he has at least a little control over what he works on - they could have just as easily moved him to the AAI team, or had him work on AA6 while they worked on AAI3.
I've also suspected this for a while, though I'm not sure the evidence backs it up, so to speak. Takumi was approached about working on PLvsPW before GT even released in Japan, and (according to interviews) he agreed to work on it then, much to Inafune and Hino's surprise. He also seemed to really enjoy the idea of a "magical" mystery, which may have gotten him over any reluctance. (The fact it wasn't a continuation of the story also probably played a role.)
GT then flopped, but by that time he was already working on PLvsPW, which sold decently in the end. So it's hard to say. The fact he's being allowed to make a reinvention of the series suggests he has at least a little control over what he works on - they could have just as easily moved him to the AAI team, or had him work on AA6 while they worked on AAI3.
Hot. We can have Apollo murdered and returned as a ghost with Pearl acting as the medium. While Wright married Maya and retired to the country side.