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[xpresstuning]

I found this video yesterday and just finished watching it today, decided to share it since it's also relatively new (just 3 days old as of this posting!) and one of, if not the best Panzer Dragoon retrospectives i've ever seen. Holy shit, this came out of nowhere. Really damn good, touches on pretty much everything concerning the IP, the stuff going on with SEGA at the time, also goes into detail about the failure of Crimson Dragon and the issues with the Panzer Dragoon Remake.

 

[Krathoon]

Two people died while making Panzer Dragoon Saga. A motorcycle accident and a suicide. They had a hell of a time finishing that one.

 

[Naked Lunch]

The Panzer Dragoon games are works of art.
Complete timeless masterworks.
I will never un-hook my Saturn for these games alone.

The only thing even remotely close to the same vibe is the ICO trilogy.

I hated the recent PD1 remake though - man, they butchered the game and artsyle.

 

[fart town usa]

Sick. I played through Zwei a few times last week. Blows me away how good it is. Everything about the game is straight up stunning.

 

[worldwithpyramids]

I know the source code is lost but Panzer Dragoon Saga needs to be revitalized somehow. Remake it from the ground up.

What's crazier still is that there's a completed PC port that was made for the now defunct GameTap service that never saw a release.

 

[Krathoon]

I know the source code is lost but Panzer Dragoon Saga needs to be revitalized somehow. Remake it from the ground up.

What's crazier still is that there's a completed PC port that was made for the now defunct GameTap service that never saw a release.

Yeah. They need to get that PC port on Steam.
I would advise everyone to download cd images of Saga to make sure it is preserved.

 

[Spukc]

I found this video yesterday and just finished watching it today, decided to share it since it's also relatively new (just 3 days old as of this posting!) and one of, if not the best Panzer Dragoon retrospectives i've ever seen. Holy shit, this came out of nowhere. Really damn good, touches on pretty much everything concerning the IP, the stuff going on with SEGA at the time, also goes into detail about the failure of Crimson Dragon and the issues with the Panzer Dragoon Remake.

Thanks for sharing OP.
People like you make me keep visiting gaf

 

[Quasicat]

Sick. I played through Zwei a few times last week. Blows me away how good it is. Everything about the game is straight up stunning.

Zwei is easily in my top 3 games of all time. After the first remake, the developer said the second would be remade as well…but they seem to have moved on to other titles instead. It’s still the reason that I still have my Saturn hooked up!

 

[xpresstuning]

I like the series a lot. I was pretty damn late to the party when i first delved into it in like 2010, but i got instantly hooked by the worldbuilding and artstyle, clearly very reminiscent of Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind, amongst other stuff. There is nothing like it, and i greatly appreciate unique artistry. I eventually bought a modded Xbox just for Orta.

And Orta? eeeeh. Well, its gameplay is excellent. But i pretty much agree with the author of that video.

I hated the recent PD1 remake though - man, they butchered the game and artsyle.

Yeah, it's a weird remake. The whole game looks like a cheaply cobbled mess marred with strange issues that weren't present in the original.

Sick. I played through Zwei a few times last week. Blows me away how good it is. Everything about the game is straight up stunning.

It's basically a perfect game. They took a long, hard look at that worked and what didn't work in the original, and produced an incredible sequel that is countless times better.

Not to downplay Panzer Dragoon 1, it's a fun game with a fantastic soundtrack and stellar art direction worth playing for the world building and atmosphere, and an essential title to play to get the full picture since there are callbacks to it throughout the entire series. But Zwei, damn. It makes it look like an early prototype.

 

[Alexios]

The first 15 minutes are full of regurgitated hearsay without sources, like Saturn only getting 3D processing at the last minute after they started fearing the PlayStation or whatever. Why even have all that in a video meant for the PD games? I'm tired of watching it before it even gets to the games...

As for Orta, I found it to be fairly watered down in terms of the Panzer Dragoon art and experience but it still shits on pretty much everything contemporary and was very accomplished in everything it set out to do. The extra material was cool too, though the imperial's story could've played better.

Edit: reached up to the Zwei, doesn't seem to make a special note of its amazing water effects even when praising Episode 4 and its boss or anything. Also makes note of the rock solid 30fps gameplay but again doesn't mention at all that in-engine cut scenes are 60fps (or the widescreen option).

Watching the Saga parts Idk why he skips some story beats but goes through others (like the fairly important bit where you enter your real name even though Edge remains as Edge) or compares the FMV as superior to freaking Ocarina of Time of all games which is all done in-engine real time

Edit: and all the games shown are in annoying varied quality of capture. Obviously no 60fps is shown given the video is 1080p 30, but also some are shown with scanlines and others raw, random games shown to make a point are shown stretched to widescreen and other stuff like this. It's just bad.

 

[fart town usa]

It's basically a perfect game. They took a long, hard look at that worked and what didn't work in the original, and produced an incredible sequel that is countless times better.

Not to downplay Panzer Dragoon 1, it's a fun game with a fantastic soundtrack and stellar art direction worth playing for the world building and atmosphere, and an essential title to play to get the full picture since there are callbacks to it throughout the entire series. But Zwei, damn. It makes it look like an early prototype.

Absolutely, I played through the first PD prior to Zwei and it's good but is nowhere near what Zwei managed to do.

 

[Soltype]

Sick. I played through Zwei a few times last week. Blows me away how good it is. Everything about the game is straight up stunning.

Played through it couple months ago to test Saturn cores on the series x. I don't think there are many games from back then that have the scale that this one does. it's truly impressive stuff.

 

[SegaManAU]

damn, four hours?

 

[THE DUCK]

Just imagine how good a modern new game would look......

 

[Tazzu]

The first 15 minutes are full of regurgitated hearsay without sources, like Saturn only getting 3D processing at the last minute after they started fearing the PlayStation or whatever. Why even have all that in a video meant for the PD games? I'm tired of watching it before it even gets to the games...

As for Orta, I found it to be fairly watered down in terms of the Panzer Dragoon art and experience but it still shits on pretty much everything contemporary and was very accomplished in everything it set out to do. The extra material was cool too, though the imperial's story could've played better.

Edit: reached up to the Zwei, doesn't seem to make a special note of its amazing water effects even when praising Episode 4 and its boss or anything. Also makes note of the rock solid 30fps gameplay but again doesn't mention at all that in-engine cut scenes are 60fps (or the widescreen option).

Watching the Saga parts Idk why he skips some story beats but goes through others (like the fairly important bit where you enter your real name even though Edge remains as Edge) or compares the FMV as superior to freaking Ocarina of Time of all games which is all done in-engine real time

Edit: and all the games shown are in annoying varied quality of capture. Obviously no 60fps is shown given the video is 1080p 30, but also some are shown with scanlines and others raw, random games shown to make a point are shown stretched to widescreen and other stuff like this. It's just bad.

Absolutely love Orta, one of my favorite games of all time. Fans seem to like Zwei more, can you explain why?

 

[Valonquar]

Sega letting the Panzer Dragoon franchise go to waste is so sad. Azel was a masterpiece for its time.

 

[xpresstuning]

Absolutely love Orta, one of my favorite games of all time. Fans seem to like Zwei more, can you explain why?

Orta unquestionably has excellent gameplay, better than Zwei, but not by that much, though where Zwei excels at over Orta is the worldbuilding which expands upon the original and the story, which organically connects to the original and Panzer Dragoon Saga. They were always meant to be a complete trilogy. And unlike any other rail shooter, Panzer Dragoon is heavily focused on its world and atmosphere.

Orta, as far as story goes, is an afterthought that was never meant to exist because Saga was meant to be the end.

I bought the original Xbox for Orta specifically, and i was left a little disappointed. I appreciate its existence and i believe it's a fantastic video game, but it didn't gel with me the same way at all.

 

[Kusarigama]

damn, four hours?

I am baffled by the length too. Anyway I'll watch it over several days on 2x speed. Tim Roger's reviews or whatever the videos he makes are also similarly lengthy.

 

[Tazzu]

Orta unquestionably has excellent gameplay, better than Zwei, but not by that much, though where Zwei excels at over Orta is the worldbuilding which expands upon the original and the story, which organically connects to the original and Panzer Dragoon Saga. They were always meant to be a complete trilogy. And unlike any other rail shooter, Panzer Dragoon is heavily focused on its world and atmosphere.

Orta, as far as story goes, is an afterthought that was never meant to exist because Saga was meant to be the end.

I bought the original Xbox for Orta specifically, and i was left a little disappointed. I appreciate its existence and i believe it's a fantastic video game, but it didn't gel with me the same way at all.

Besides the gameplay (which I loved, so much that I immediately restarted the game on hard after finishing) the world really sucked me in with Orta. I've never played or seen anything to so strange and otherworldly.

I recently got a Series X so I'll play through it via emulation but what am in for? Again I ask simply because I loved Orta so much.

 

[xpresstuning]

I recently got a Series X so I'll play through it via Emulation but what am in for? Again I ask simply because I loved Orta so much.

A 5th gen game running at a constant 30 FPS with a lot of content to play around with and a number of impressive, ambitious mechanics, wrapped in an incredible atmospheric, unique world. The theme, i suspect, you've fallen for is far, far more realized, poignant let's say in the original trilogy.

If you loved Orta, you'll love the entire series, but i suggest approaching it as what it is. For example, i am mainly a PC gamer, but i appreciate video games based on the time and system they were made for. I will be impressed and awed by a game that does what it does for the system it does it. But it depends, for example, if the controls aren't good and if the framerate is ass, that will impede my enjoyment.

But anyway, if you're going the emulation route, i highly suggest starting with the original Panzer Dragoon, even if you've played the shoddy ass remake, or played the original years ago. Play the original, on Easy mode so you can breeze through a couple of episodes and get a feel of what it is. Or play it on Normal, whatever you choose, just go got it.

Then go for Zwei and see how much an improvement it is on the same system. It is absolutely incredible, almost a half a generational jump.

Then finish it with Saga.

 

[Komatsu]

I recently got a Series X so I'll play through it via Emulation but what am in for? Again I ask simply because I loved Orta so much.

A beautiful, 4k30fps experience. Orta runs buttery smooth on the Xbox One X and Series X and looks absolutely amazing.

 

[Alexios]

A beautiful, 4k30fps experience. Orta runs buttery smooth on the Xbox One X and Series X and looks absolutely amazing.

Orta is a 60fps game.... Also he probably means he'll emulate the older games as he's played that already.

 

[Tazzu]

A 5th gen game running at a constant 30 FPS with a lot of content to play around with and a number of impressive, ambitious mechanics, wrapped in an incredible atmospheric, unique world. The theme, i suspect, you've fallen for is far, far more realized, poignant let's say in the original trilogy.

If you loved Orta, you'll love the entire series, but i suggest approaching it as what it is. For example, i am mainly a PC gamer, but i appreciate video games based on the time and system they were made for. I will be impressed and awed by a game that does what it does for the system it does it. But it depends, for example, if the controls aren't good and if the framerate is ass, that will impede my enjoyment.

But anyway, if you're going the emulation route, i highly suggest starting with the original Panzer Dragoon, even if you've played the shoddy ass remake, or played the original years ago. Play the original, on Easy mode so you can breeze through a couple of episodes and get a feel of what it is. Or play it on Normal, whatever you choose, just go got it.

Then go for Zwei and see how much an improvement it is on the same system. It is absolutely incredible, almost a half a generational jump.

Then finish it with Saga.

I have played the original (via Orta nonetheless) but it didn't wow me like it did for people when it first came out. Still i can appreciate it for what it is. I'll definitely give it a shot on Easy, I also own the remake, seriously no shame in saying that since life means I cant spend hours trying to nail one game.

 

[Tazzu]

Orta is a 60fps game.... Also he probably means he'll emulate the older games as he's played that already.

Yes already played it. Funny story, when MS announced it was BC, I immediately borrowed my big bro's One S and loved the hell out of it. But because it was so good, I then got my lil bro's One X to play it on hard and see it in glorious 4k!

 

[Naked Lunch]

Never understood the hate or semi-hate Orta receives. Even back when it came out there were haters. The only thing I can think of is that it came out on Xbox?

I love the Saturn and what it does graphically - but come on - Orta was the vision the Saturn games were supposed to be. Zwei was doing its best with its magical art style and atmosphere - but the game was still a blocky abstract mess. Orta gave definitive 3d modeled form to the objects and creatures of the Panzer Dragoon world. Plus its running at buttery 60fps.

Theres no other rail shooter I can think of where you have to be conscious of leveling up on the fly for all the different dragon forms of Orta. The braking/boosting mechanic takes rail shooter dodging to another level as well.

I love all the PD games - 10 of 10 for each but yeah ill say it, Orta is the best Panzer Dragoon shooter - and the best rail shooter in gaming next to N64's Sin and Punishment.

 

[kvltus lvlzvs]

I would absolutely love for the series to continue. Orta was amazing.

 

[Alexios]

Never understood the hate or semi-hate Orta receives. Even back when it came out there were haters. The only thing I can think of is that it came out on Xbox?

I love the Saturn and what it does graphically - but come on - Orta was the vision the Saturn games were supposed to be. Zwei was doing its best with its magical art style and atmosphere - but the game was still a blocky abstract mess. Orta gave definitive 3d modeled form to the objects and creatures of the Panzer Dragoon world. Plus its running at buttery 60fps.

Theres no other rail shooter I can think of where you have to be conscious of leveling up on the fly for all the different dragon forms of Orta. The braking/boosting mechanic takes rail shooter dodging to another level as well.

I love all the PD games - 10 of 10 for each but yeah ill say it, Orta is the best Panzer Dragoon shooter - and the best rail shooter in gaming next to N64's Sin and Punishment.

You know you can say you prefer Orta without trying to insult/criticize/degrade others who don't as nonsensical or with frivolous reasons like the platform (as if there was a Sega platform at the time to go for instead). Personally I find the art style was very diluted and not at all like what they had created for the Saturn games. It makes sense as it was so much later by a largely different development team. Sure it had better graphics than on the Saturn (what a feat to emphasize?) but you can see there's a difference in the conceptual level as well, everything from the dragon forms (especially the core garish/ugly one, thankfully some of the others are more beautiful and akin to previous games) to the ancient machinery like the float engines didn't really have the same feel as far as I'm concerned and was worse for it. I mean, things were different between the 3 Saturn games also as the style evolved and changed with roughly the same capabilities but previously I thought it kept improving and with Orta not really. I dunno why I have to be a hater for having a preference when I already acknowledged it's a solid game worth playing. I thought the boost/braking system was more annoying within the levels since it didn't change anything in most cases so it was pointless to have available at all times like that when only the bosses made great use of it with trying to recreate Saga's movement mechanics in rail shooter form and I prefer the upgrades being tied to score than seemingly random targets. I didn't think it was a good way to continue the story either as others said, though again I appreciated the additional lore material and the imperial's side story (though I'd prefer if it played the same or Starfoxy instead of the weird controlling vehicles). Although I could do without the green martianoids somehow unknown to everyone until Orta. Sure, it has some good creative ideas and mechanics but Zwei doesn't feel like it's missing anything without them (and Saga is an RPG so not really comparable). Other shooters did similar before Orta, like Omega Boost (which is pretty sweet, I think I may prefer it over Orta), they have to differentiate somehow after all so they all add something or change something or whatever, otherwise they'd just be Zwei, or Star Fox, or whatever else previous, again. Tazzu played Orta first so it had a bigger impact and nothing's likely to change that but he should go in intending to play and enjoy the games and see more of the universe he enjoyed (again especially past the first game which was rather experimental in comparison and many things got overhauled, from the setting to the music).

 

[Kruza]

I love Panzer Dragoon Zwei very much. I really do! But Panzer Dragoon Orta tops Panzer Dragoon Zwei in just about every way imaginable. Graphics, more challenging gameplay, level design, art, extra features and options.. you name it. The only exceptions I can see where Zwei has an edge over Orta is the (still!) badass Episode 3 Boss in Zwei that inspired the creation of Orta Episode 3 Boss (although not as good in my opinion), and a wider variety of music tracks that play during the boss scenes. Albeit high quality tracks in their own right, Orta has only two different tracks that play during boss scenes. Meanwhile, Zwei has several more of them -- and all of these tracks are awesome!

 

[Naked Lunch]

Alexios My bad if my post upset you - wasnt my intention. I was speaking more about Orta detractors in general over the years. I used to be a part of another forum back when Orta launched and that particular board 95% hated Orta for some reason. Just strange. So coming from that perspective - Orta really didnt deserve it but maybe thats just me.

The only thing I can definitely disagree is the boost/brake mechanic in Orta for sure plays a big part in the levels beyond just the boss circling mechanic. But its not neccessary, more optional. It took me many replays and experimentation to use it to its fullest within the actual levels - and it opened even more depth.

 

[Alexios]

Well that's just a different, positive way to acknowledge that indeed for most of the duration of the levels it doesn't change much so you have to figure out where exactly the designers intended it like a set piece with trial and error, which isn't really intuitive save for some obvious stuff here and there, so why is it available anywhere where it doesn't do much and has limited uses meaning you have less freedom to trial and error? In the boss fights the use is obvious and intuitive in comparison. I could respect it more outside bosses if it could significantly alter the whole level, basically be able to boost throughout as an expert to finish the level in 2/3rds of the time but also make enemies and their shots come faster/harder at you so almost like a manually activated hard/turbo mode, with the opposite for braking more as groups and individual enemies are more spaced apart but maybe you completely miss some of the gene targets that leave before you get to that part of the level or something, things like that on top of the existing set pieces that have you stopping to dodge an enemy or boosting to destroy groups of enemies or fly past them to reveal weak points etc. I'm also not fond of the different dragon forms altering the berserk and boosting capabilities, I think I would prefer those stay the same and only the core attacks and agility is changed. Plus, they had enough buttons to cycle forms forward/back so why only have one button cycling in order through all three (unless you could change that in the settings, I missed that).

 

[Alex Anderson]

This is off topic but I at one point owned Panzer Dragoon Saga not boxed, Snatcher Sega CD mint, Shantae GBC boxed. Got a total of $160 for them

 

[Team Andromeda]

I hated the recent PD1 remake though - man, they butchered the game and artsyle.

The remake is utter shit

 

[Team Andromeda]

Never understood the hate or semi-hate Orta receives. Even back when it came out there were haters. The only thing I can think of is that it came out on Xbox?

Apart from 2 adverage Episode's Orta is amazing and it was amazing how the team combined the gameplay from both Saga and the mainline series of games. The hate only seems to come from the johnny come lately gang who only played Saga or only have a interest in Saga because of its price and thought the series is all about RPG's

Panzer is a rail shooter at heat and I was very glad Orta went back to its roots as a fan of the game from the start; I still say the very 1st game is the best of the lot mine it features he best music, the best art direction and the best bosses. I also loved how that game captured the sense of it was you and your pet against the whole world and you knew that your pet dragon would gladly give its life to defend you
Just like as a kid growing up, I knew my Staffordshire Bull Terrier would have gladly given its life to defend me.

 

[PanzerCute]

The first thing I did when I bought my SeX last year was to go on the store and to purchase Panzer Dragoon Orta.

That game will for ever be a 10/10 for me.

 

[cireza]

Orta is a masterpiece, it took some liberties in the design and this is why some people like it a bit less. But gameplay-wise, it is timeless.
Zwei is also exceptional, this game simply doesn't age. Gameplay is brilliant, and you get the design you love from the initial trilogy.

This series deserved much better than the ridiculous budget SEGA threw at some random developer to make the ugly remake of the first game. But this is modern-day SEGA.

 

[PanzerCute]

Orta is a masterpiece, it took some liberties in the design and this is why some people like it a bit less. But gameplay-wise, it is timeless.
Zwei is also exceptional, this game simply doesn't age. Gameplay is brilliant, and you get the design you love from the initial trilogy.

This series deserved much better than the ridiculous budget SEGA threw at some random developer to make the ugly remake of the first game. But this is modern-day SEGA.

Hey Cireza, long time no see!