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PGR3 update 06: Motion Capture, texturing (56k warning)

Blimblim

The Inside Track
http://www.bizarreonline.net/index.php?action=fullnews&showcomments=1&id=38

Mocap :
Last week I was lucky enough to witness a motion capture session deep in Bizarre towers.

Motion capture (if you're not aware), is the act of dressing up in a tight suit, sticking little reflective balls all over your body, and running around in a dark room for a bit. Apparently game developers have been doing this for years! A convenient side effect is that you can use infra-red cameras to record the movements of someone as they dance about the place. The recorded motion can then be applied to an in-game character, meaning that they animate realistically and move in a way you'd expect them to move.

There's quite a bit of this going on at Bizarre at the moment, as all of the crowd in PGR3 have all been "mo-capped". This particular session, however, wasn't for PGR3, but rather Bizarre's unannounced title in development... (There's more to Bizarre than just Gotham, you know!)

Motion Capture gubbinsI snuck into the mo-cap studio with a camera whilst the preparations were still going on. Fortunately, Alan was already in the spandex suit when I arrived, so I was only witness to the "sticking the little balls on" phase, during which I harassed Mike about how the whole process worked.

Interestingly enough, there isn't any equipment inside the balls. They are simply reflective, so the cameras can pick them up, which makes Alan looks like a character from Tron in the camera flash! They are also "squishy" so that the actor can dive about the place without causing a nasty injury.

Mike (the man in the know) said this: "The cameras emit infra red and the markers are coated with a substance that reflects this spectrum of light back into the cameras, I guess the markers are a bit like cats eyes on roads, bouncing back a car's head light.

The cameras aren't really affected by unnatural light/bulbs, but white or shiny objects that are placed in the capture area can sometimes reflect light back to the camera. This makes the captured data very noisy and very hard to work with.

To capture motion data, these reflective markers have to be seen by at least two cameras, so that the mocap software (Vicon's IQ2) can calculate where that marker is in 3d space. If a marker is seen by only one camera then it wont work. This all adds to, what I call, the 'dark art of Motion Capture'."

The clever part of this whole process is the cameras which are mounted around the studio. They cover every angle, so once all of the angles are added together you can get an idea of the movement in 3 dimensions.

But how do you know where to put the markers on your actor? Mike explains: "Basically we have to have enough markers on the actor so that when individual markers get obscured from the camera's view, then IQ2 can use other markers nearby to reconstruct where it thinks they should be. So we might put a marker on the elbow, but we'll also put a marker on the actor's upper arm and the forearm. Then if the elbow marker is sometimes hidden from the camera's view then we can use features within IQ2 to reconstruct the position of the lost elbow marker using the markers on the forearm and upper arm. However, if there are too many markers then IQ2 will get confused when trying to work out which is which when it tries to automatically label these markers. Like I said, it's a bit of a dark art.

I feel the most important factor influencing where we put the markers on an actor is what type of motion we are trying to capture. There is no point putting a marker on the actor's back if we are capturing the motions of someone sitting in a chair, because it will always be hidden from view. We also need to consider placing markers to capture the rotation of certain objects or bones - we need at least two positions to work out the vector/rotation of that object. This is why we have two or more markers on the back of the actor's hand, so we can capture the angle/twist of the hand during the motion."

Before things got started, we needed to calibrate the software we were going to be using. Alan had to stand in the middle of the studio, and go through the range of motions his limbs were capable of moving. This means doing kung-fu kicks, rolling your head, and practicing yoga with your arms. Brilliant!

Alan's instructions for this particular motion capture session were to grab his neck, and act out a slow and painful death. Interesting stuff! It's not as simple as it sounds though... for example, Al couldn't just put his hands around his throat as you might expect. We don't yet know how the hands from the motion capture will map to the hands on the 3d model - will everything match up properly? The best way to get round this, Mike explained, was for Alan to do the action in front of his neck at a distance of about a foot. Then the limbs would be repositioned whilst in post-processing to make it all match up.

But how does it get from the motion capture software into the game? "During the capture session we save data from the cameras and use this within IQ2 to re-construct where each of the markers is in 3d space and its trajectory from one frame to another. IQ2 can then label what it thinks each marker is, and use tools to reconstruct the position of lost markers. Once all markers are labelled on every frame of a sequence then it is exported into Motion Builder; the package we use to transfer our motion captured data onto our 'animation skeleton'. The final stage is to clean up and adjust the basic animation, so that it loops or animates from specific poses or whatever. The animation is then exported into Maya (where even more magic is added) before it is finally exported into the game's animation converter where it is converted to be played in our game. Sorted!"

I'll do another update on the modelling process in coming weeks... as soon as I find an artist willing to convert to the dark side and spill the beans!

Texturing :
So there's only time for a short piece on PGR3 this week, but quite an interesting one nonetheless. What follows is an actual unlit, pre-effects PGR3 game texture, which shows the front of a building in New York City. As always, this was pretty much a random texture I selected from the archive. Click the thumbnail below to see the image at actual size (1024x1024 pixels)!

It might look a bit plain in its 'raw' form, but this is just a 1/4 of the story ... as well as the regular texture (called the diffuse layer), there is also the index channel (is it glass, metal, brick etc.?), the specular map (the shininess of the material), and the bump map (adds light and shadow to the raised areas) on top of that! In fact, I'll see if I can interrogate the texture artists some more in the future for some more info... Smiley

But that's not all. Imagine an entire city of textures at this high level of detail. How many textures would you need? Yes, it's thousands and thousands! The following image has been going around our studio this week, so I thought I'd share it with you also. It's a crop sheet of some of the New York City textures which are featured in the game. Again, make sure you click the thumbnail to see the full-size image.

Pretty incredible eh? Obviously this picture has been scaled down for practical use, but it has been made entirely from full-size textures like the one above. Here's what the building looks like in the game engine:

Remember, that's just New York. There are literally gigabytes of textures! The level of detail still amazes me. I can't wait! Smiley

fstexture.jpg


firestation_full.jpg
 

Kato

Member
So what am I supposed to do when I play this game? Trying to earn kudo's, bitchslap my online opponent or cruising at 5 mph around the city and stare at the buildings..
 

Bebpo

Banned
Looks amazing as always. I still can't believe any company will be willing to spend that much time on every texture (aka thousands) for their entire game. If Bizarre really pulls it off PGR will be the first 'true' next generation game IMO.
 

Aruarian Reflection

Chauffeur de la gdlk
Kato said:
So what am I supposed to do when I play this game? Trying to earn kudo's, bitchslap my online opponent or cruising at 5 mph around the city and stare at the buildings..

LOL I was doing this in Project Gotham 2 the other day. I live in the Washington DC area for the summer, so I've been downtown and have walked around the city. I came back to PGR2 and was amazed at how realistic the model of the city was. So I just drove around at 5 mpg looking for buildings I recognized :lol
 

Kato

Member
SnowWolf said:
LOL I was doing this in Project Gotham 2 the other day. I live in the Washington DC area for the summer, so I've been downtown and have walked around the city. I came back to PGR2 and was amazed at how realistic the model of the city was. So I just drove around at 5 mpg looking for buildings I recognized :lol

Cool!

Well I hope one day I could experience that when they decide to model my town in the far south-west of the Netherlands, which by the way, will never ever happen. And even then the race would take like 5 seconds from start to finish and gives me just enough time to earn 1 kudo for using the right button. :lol
 

Kiriku

SWEDISH PERFECTION
Gigabytes of textures? I wonder if that's going to be common next gen...because in that case, the DVD format may cause some limitations...
 

Blimblim

The Inside Track
Kiriku said:
Gigabytes of textures? I wonder if that's going to be common next gen...because in that case, the DVD format may cause some limitations...
I'd say it's Gigabytes before compression. It will still be a lot whatever happens.
 
SnowWolf said:
LOL I was doing this in Project Gotham 2 the other day. I live in the Washington DC area for the summer, so I've been downtown and have walked around the city. I came back to PGR2 and was amazed at how realistic the model of the city was. So I just drove around at 5 mpg looking for buildings I recognized :lol
I did the same in Florence :D I've really been impressed by the correspondence between the games' and the city's streets! Now please Bizarre, give me an exact copy of Rome!
 
Gigabytes of textures huh? Even compressed, it will still be huge. Then add the audio and everything else. I get a feeling the Xbox 360 will see very, very few FMVs in its games, all replaced by realtime cutscenes. Square am cry.
 

Dr_Cogent

Banned
Kiriku said:
Gigabytes of textures? I wonder if that's going to be common next gen...because in that case, the DVD format may cause some limitations...

You can fit approx 8.5 GB on a dual layer DVD, and like BlimBlim said - they will probably be compressed as well. We will probably be just fine.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Damn, that looks fantastic!

I get a feeling the Xbox 360 will see very, very few FMVs in its games, all replaced by realtime cutscenes. Square am cry.

You haven't played many Square games this gen, have you? (not that they've been doing a whole lot of amazing work or anything...)

The FMV they have presented, though, is still out of reach for these new consoles. Same goes for Blizzard's CG.
 
Dr_Cogent said:
You can fit approx 8.5 GB on a dual layer DVD, and like BlimBlim said - they will probably be compressed as well. We will probably be just fine.


Wasn't there some developer who made a comment that the usable space on an Xbox DVD was ~7GB? Presumably having to do with copy protection.

I think it's obvious from Microsoft's and Itagaki's comments that they fully believe that disc space may be an issue down the road. However, probably not for a while as developers will take a while to truly ramp up the art assets required to really need that much space. Plus, as many people have said, having to put a second DVD in a drive after 20-30 hours of play isn't really going to be a huge problem if it's required.
 

Neex

Banned
as well as the regular texture (called the diffuse layer), there is also the index channel (is it glass, metal, brick etc.?), the specular map (the shininess of the material), and the bump map (adds light and shadow to the raised areas) on top of that! In fact,


Ha! Take that naysayers! Remember the whole discussion about how Bizarre would never do this because it would be way too much detail?

Oh, and I was wondering if that was the firehouse used for the Ghostbusters movie, as that's in NY, but I guess not. Still would be fun to find this in the game...

firehouse.jpg
 
AtomicShroom said:
Gigabytes of textures huh? Even compressed, it will still be huge. Then add the audio and everything else. I get a feeling the Xbox 360 will see very, very few FMVs in its games, all replaced by realtime cutscenes. Square am cry.

Because DVDs are SO expensive and it costs too much money to put a game on two disks if they need the extra space.

People will latch onto anything to predict the doom of a new system.

"omg the XBOX only has 8 gb of storage...oh noes they are doomed! PS3 is a better design!"
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
"omg the XBOX only has 8 gb of storage...oh noes they are doomed! PS3 is a better design!"

Err, you do realize that, in this case, the PS3 -IS- the better design. There is no two ways about it.
 
FirstInHell said:
Because DVDs are SO expensive and it costs too much money to put a game on two disks if they need the extra space.

People will latch onto anything to predict the doom of a new system.

"omg the XBOX only has 8 gb of storage...oh noes they are doomed! PS3 is a better design!"

That's true, but a 2 disk racing game would be problematic(unless it's split by game mode, like one of the gran turismos (can't remember which)). It's no problem at all for RPG's and the like, but some games really don't have the luxury of going to multiple disks.

That being said, I find it hard to beleive that Bizarre would lack the planning and foresight to have their biggest technical hurdle be getting the damn thing on the disk.
 
morbidaza said:
That being said, I find it hard to beleive that Bizarre would lack the planning and foresight to have their biggest technical hurdle be getting the damn thing on the disk.


People sure are over-reacting to that GBs of texture comment. 2GB of textures would qualify as "Gigabytes of textures".

PGR3 will fit fine on a DVD.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Shogmaster said:
People sure are over-reacting to that GBs of texture comment. 2GB of textures would qualify as "Gigabytes of textures".

PGR3 will fit fine on a DVD.

still though, size could be an issue quite easily. with 512MB of memory, assuming you fill that to capacity for a racing circuit, how many more can you fit on a DVD? If there are lots of unshared assets, like with city racing, then you could run out quickly.

8GB is only 16 fills of the main memory.
 

Blimblim

The Inside Track
mrklaw said:
still though, size could be an issue quite easily. with 512MB of memory, assuming you fill that to capacity for a racing circuit, how many more can you fit on a DVD? If there are lots of unshared assets, like with city racing, then you could run out quickly.

8GB is only 16 fills of the main memory.
Since PGR3 is more or less a free roaming game I'd say the whole city part of the game will have to fit in the main memory, or at least the biggest share of it so there is not too much streaming to do. So with 4 cities + 1 bonus a DVD9 should be more than enough.
 

eso76

Member
Well, it's quite disappointing to see reflections on glasses are not some kind of environment mapping: just textures.
You can tell from the car being reflected in both doors' glasses...
I suppose it will change later, as well as many other things about these pictures...I don't think they are an indication of anything.

Damn, someone already noticed the repeating minivan:)
 

Neex

Banned
Well, it's quite disappointing to see reflections on glasses are not some kind of environment mapping: just textures.

I don't see how you can find those screens disappointing unless you want to.
 

Gek54

Junior Member
Neex said:
I don't see how you can find those screens disappointing unless you want to.

Well, checking you your reflection against the windows of buildings would have been hot on its own.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Neex said:
I don't see how you can find those screens disappointing unless you want to.

Oh, they're not...but if those windows were actually reflecting the surroundings, that would have been a pretty big deal and made quite a statement about the hardware...
 

Redbeard

Banned
Gek54 said:
Well, checking you your reflection against the windows of buildings would have been hot on its own.

You drive at ground level, how would you see your reflection in windows two stories up?
 

Zep

Banned
dark10x said:
Oh, they're not...but if those windows were actually reflecting the surroundings, that would have been a pretty big deal and made quite a statement about the hardware...

It is...look at the last picture..you can clearly see a car is driving by the window.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
DaddyZ said:
It is...look at the last picture..you can clearly see a car is driving by the window.

Look at the texture again...

That's part of the texture, not a realtime rendered element.
 

Gregory

Banned
Reflection of a car or not in that shot, there`s no denying that if the surroundings will look like this it will be the most impressive looking racer so far. By a long shot. Talk about nitpicking, and I`m no PGR fan either.
 

terrene

Banned
McFly said:
Now someone tell them to make digicam shots without noise problems.

Fredi
Damn, there is ALWAYS a whining fuck to bitch and complain about how the next gen isn't good enough, isn't there?
 

terrene

Banned
McFly said:
This has nothing to do with next gen, just with the ability to take professional photographs.

Fredi
Do you honestly think it will make even the slightest bit of difference in the gameplay or overall presentation?
 

GhaleonEB

Member
The level of nitpicking in this thread is fucking amazing. They could post a photograph and it would get ripped for bad lighting and aliasing issues.
 

IJoel

Member
GhaleonEB said:
The level of nitpicking in this thread is fucking amazing. They could post a photograph and it would get ripped for bad lighting and aliasing issues.

It's alright though. It's a good filter for my ignore list.
 

McFly

Member
terrene said:
Do you honestly think it will make even the slightest bit of difference in the gameplay or overall presentation?

No, but if they show off with a photograph used for a texture, than at least with a good photograph. The second (actual engine shot) shows that they reduce the res enough for the noise to almost disappear, so yeah, it won't be visible in game.

Fredi
 

Chiggs

Gold Member
Dr_Cogent said:
You can fit approx 8.5 GB on a dual layer DVD, and like BlimBlim said - they will probably be compressed as well. We will probably be just fine.


Isn't it 9.4? I've read in several articles that's what the capacity is. Someone please clarify this.
 

terrene

Banned
McFly said:
No, but if they show off with a photograph used for a texture, than at least with a good photograph. The second (actual engine shot) shows that they reduce the res enough for the noise to almost disappear, so yeah, it won't be visible in game.

Fredi
Uh yeah. Welcome to my ignore list.
 
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