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[Ozriel]

The world's richest company by market cap needs funding for one of its divisions?

Or are we doing the same meaningless PR dance.

Seeing posts like this after y’all spent last year crying about Xbox getting cash injections from ‘daddy Microsoft’ sure cracks me up.

Releasing some of their back catalogue on other platforms improves profit margins for the division and helps fund other initiatives. Not too dissimilar a dilemma as Sony is tackling at the moment.
Is that easier for you to understand?

 

[Punished Miku]

Aren't of you to sustain their current strategy. And of those customers they currently have, not enough are contributing to the pot by actually making purchases outside of their subscriptions. That's why.

I have no problem with them putting stuff everywhere. I'm ready for a post-closed console world. They have to open up their console then.

If I have a Xbox device with a MS store, and it can load up Steam, GoG, Epic as well, then slam dunk for me. I'd take the convenience of a console style PC over bleeding edge. If they are going 3rd party, then do it. If their next hardware was open they'd lap Sony in my opinion. You'd get everything great about Xbox, plus all the back catalog of GoG / Steam, the indies that don't make it to console, a good chunk of Sony games, all the stuff SQEX skips on Xbox, and being all digital would make sense for the consumer as you'd have 4 stores competing like retail does. That is the obvious future. But if they want to put their stuff everywhere but keep their Xbox customers locked in, then I'm out. MS games are some of my favorites, but it makes sense to play them on any other device but Xbox at this point.

If their games are everywhere, they have no right to have closed hardware. They can run a store alongside other stores.

 

[MisterXDTV]

If their games are everywhere, they have no right to have a closed ecosystem. They can run a store alongside other stores.

They know people will never pick their store anyway....

Just like on PC nobody buys games from the MS Store and everybody goes to Steam

For this to happen, they would have to drop the Xbox home console completely...

Go OEM and make pre-built PCs

 

[digoutyoursoul]

If you had a steady flow of great games then you wouldn’t be in this position. They have not done this, at times he has talked about everything except what you actually play. Services, being everywhere , cloud, learning, apologies, it’s farcical to be honest.

Why are Sony and Nintendo more successful ? Content. Hardware compliments the content. It builds a portfolio, a legacy over time as it were. In turn that spreads out from the enthusiast to the more casual, the content and legacy builds a brand name that’s instantly recognisable. Word of mouth spreads and with that you have a better chance to bring in new players, new fans and the cycle repeats itself with a straightforward formula.

They have both had their downtimes too but more often then not they stick to the simple principles and it works.

Xbox tries to make it more complicated than it is, trying to find other ways to the honey pot when if they just stuck to the basics and did them well, it would all speak for itself rather then this guy having to run his mouth so often.

 

[Draugoth]

2026:

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

2026:

PS5 Pro enhanced ™

 

[Punished Miku]

For this to happen, they would have to drop the Xbox home console completely...

Go OEM and make pre-built PCs

That was one of the rumors. Makes a lot of sense.

 

[TrippleA345]

Seeing posts like this after y’all spent last year crying about Xbox getting cash injections from ‘daddy Microsoft’ sure cracks me up.

Releasing some of their back catalogue on other platforms improves profit margins for the division and helps fund other initiatives. Not too dissimilar a dilemma as Sony is tackling at the moment.
Is that easier for you to understand?

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Things just staying the same is not doing anything for Xbox customers. That's the lowest possible bar ever. GP staying is nice. That's literally what it has been for several years now. Additional revenue is not my concern and does nothing for me. That is for the industry and creators. Additional games for 2024 was already a thing and is not anything new. Additional games and hardware are planned for years, so that was already going to happen.

They didn't announce a single NEW thing FOR PLAYERS. What did I expect? Real simple. Full dual entitlement on PC for all purchases. If every screen is an Xbox, then they have to actually mean that. What they want is Xbox players locked into a closed ecosystem funding them while they put games on everything and every other customer gets the same games without being locked in. That means every single other screen has an advantage on games. They had one thing to do, open up digital purchases to move between Xbox and PC and I would consider the whole conference a slam dunk. Tina directly asked him about digital libraries, and they all punted.

Literally not one thing changed for existing Xbox customers. We already had gamepass, cloud, more games in the pipeline, and a console coming next gen. A change would be something to make owning an Xbox better than it was 2 days ago since the exclusivity arrangement that drove the purchase of the hardware just vanished.

They even straight up said Xbox is the "only place to play GP," which is a non-sensical lie. It's nearly half price on PC, and has additional games. It's also available on any device through cloud. You can play GP on literally anything connected to the internet.

Couldnt have said it better myself.

But I will add... There was actually a change.

Never has that meme of everything being fine when surrounded by flames been more apt. Cause the one thing that has changed, the one thing that this whole thing was about, that warranted the business event... actually happened. And somehow is being swept under the rug like its nothing.

And that's their games, games that would have otherwise been Xbox/PC? Gamepass exclusives are going to start coming to the PS5. Or as they would prefer to say it, other platforms.

I think people need to ask themselves why that is really happening, and what it means for the future. Instead of drinking that MS, for the gamers and creators cool aid that we all said they would say.

If everything was fine, they would not need the PS platform.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

You really need me to spell out the difference between your words, and "now"?

avin

Hardware sales and GP subs already see a decline.

That's 2/3 as we speak.

 

[Punished Miku]

I think people need to ask themselves why that is really happening, and what it means for the future. Instead of drinking that MS, for the gamers and creators cool aid that we all said they would say.

If everything was fine, they would not need the PS platform.

It's just not growing fast enough, but I do think Phil was pretty transparent about these problems being industry wide. Sony will run into the same thing. May take another 10 years, but it'll happen. Consoles aren't growing. This is why I'm not running to PS5 instead, despite already having one. They both will eventually end up at the same place. They will be apps for a storefront and streaming service on all devices. I'm totally fine with that. This is why my only demand was guarantees that their storefront purchases will be portable, because that's where everything is going.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Seeing posts like this after y’all spent last year crying about Xbox getting cash injections from ‘daddy Microsoft’ sure cracks me up.

Releasing some of their back catalogue on other platforms improves profit margins for the division and helps fund other initiatives. Not too dissimilar a dilemma as Sony is tackling at the moment.
Is that easier for you to understand?

Do you really believe that MS, who has also been releasing ALL their games day 1 on PC and gamepass since like 2017/2018, now trying to release them on PS5. Their single biggest rival in the console space. Is the same thing as Sony releasing their games on the PC? You sincerely believe that?

You really cannot see the differences or implications? And you really think that is all it is, releasing some of their back catalog? How about this, imagine a world, where releasing an Xbox exclusive on the PS5, even 1 year later, makes more money for Microsoft than whatever revenue that game was attributed to bringing in the one year it was "exclusive" to Xbox/gamepass. What do you think happens then?

You know how some publishers or devs prioritize the PS platform simply because they know their game will sell more on it, can you imagine a world where MS does the same with a Playstation over Xbox and gamepass? The day that happens, be that 4 or 6 years from now... remember, that this is where it started.

 

[MayauMiao]

Now its officially dead, any new meltdown videos?

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

The world's richest company by market cap needs funding for one of its divisions?

Or are we doing the same meaningless PR dance.

What exactly is wrong with a division operating to make the most money? Isn’t GAF always upset about Xbox only existing because of “daddy’s money”?

 

[Ozriel]

Do you really believe that MS, who has also been releasing ALL their games day 1 on PC and gamepass since like 2017/2018, now trying to release them on PS5. Their single biggest rival in the console space. Is the same thing as Sony releasing their games on the PC? You sincerely believe that?

In a conversation about why MS wants the additional revenue, I’ve said that fundamentally, releasing back catalogue games on other platforms to generate revenue and improve profit margins is something all platforms aside from Nintendo are doing.

How does that translates to ‘it’s the same market impact as what Sony is doing’ ?

There’s a comprehension deficit here

How about this, imagine a world, where releasing an Xbox exclusive on the PS5, even 1 year later, makes more money for Microsoft than whatever revenue that game was attributed to bringing in the one year it was "exclusive" to Xbox/gamepass. What do you think happens then?

You realize that’s exactly why they’re releasing some of their games on other consoles, right? To make more revenue. Is this a trick question?

Of course these decisions are balanced against other factors, such as maintaining incentives for console sales (so basically preserving the overall ‘exclusivity’ incentive) and potential impact on GP. Which is why they’re openly saying their consideration for this wave of games is community driven games and smaller titles where sales and GP interest has tapped out on Xbox.

You know how some publishers or devs prioritize the PS platform simply because they know their game will sell more on it, can you imagine a world where MS does the same with a Playstation over Xbox and gamepass? The day that happens, be that 4 or 6 years from now... remember, that this is where it started.

That’s very unlikely to happen as long as they’ve got hardware to sell, and as long as they keep launching first on their hardware.
Hard to prioritize a platform getting a port later.

 

[Ozriel]

Sorry to hear that. Have you considered therapy?

 

[Mr Moose]

Wait a minute. How are we going to log in to Xbox from PS5 in order to have cross-save functionality or achievements?

I bought Witcher 3 on PC not long ago and it loaded my PS5 save.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

It's just not growing fast enough, but I do think Phil was pretty transparent about these problems being industry wide. Sony will run into the same thing. May take another 10 years, but it'll happen. Consoles aren't growing. This is why I'm not running to PS5 instead, despite already having one. They both will eventually end up at the same place. They will be apps for a storefront and streaming service on all devices. I'm totally fine with that. This is why my only demand was guarantees that their storefront purchases will be portable, because that's where everything is going.

You see my thing is that I don't actually agree with that whole consoles aren't growing thing. Not because its not true, but because its being used as an excuse to justify their failures. The thing is that the console market has kinda remained the same for almost 3+ decades. Each gen usually averages around 250-270M in sales. Sony usually gets their 100-120M, Nintendo usually gets their 100-120M and MS usually gets its 40-50M.

The very unique nature of the console market is such that those averages remain kinda the same across generations. Sony is not dependent on their software sales on the PC for their flagship AAA games which can be comfortably supported to success just on their console. They look at PC as an added revenue stream, one that there is no reason to ignore, especially with how they deal with releases on the platform, in such a way that it wouldn't hinder the growth of their primary platform.

The same cannot be said for Xbox. Xbox is in the position they are in now because it has simply spent more money than its platform can recoup on its own. They have unsustainably invested so much that now, they actually need to explore other means of growth, even if that means putting their games on the PS5. I don't have a problem with that, but that is as clear an admission of failure or a long series of bad decisions as there can be. They first tred with teh PC, using that as a way to accelerate the growth of their overall platform. That still didnt work too well for them. And now they are trying to add PlayStation to that too.

A good way to look at this, is that Sony can invest $10B/year in PlayStation. And make $20B/y in revenue back. That is sustainability. They can explore the PC, but that is not taking them up from $20B to $25B, at best it adds another $1B in revenue. Ms simply cannot say the same. I said it during the acquisition saga, that people seem not to notice that MS, in 18 months, is spending more money than Playstation and Nintendo combined make from total profits in 4-5 years. For the most part it was ignored. But this is what that kinda decision looks like, this is what that translates to.

Think about that, the benchmark by whcih MS now has to measure growth, is on a completely different scale. Is something that the odd 25M Xbox console owners and 30M dd GP subscribers, simply cannot support, especially considering that game development is a constant ongoing investment.

I think it would be remiss to in any shape or form, be comparing what sony does or has done or will do, to what MS needs to be doing.

 

[avin]

Hardware sales and GP subs already see a decline.

That's 2/3 as we speak.

I don't think that's the point, although what you say is true. I'd guess the Xbox console will continue to decline. As you say, it was in decline already and this surely won't help. But in context of the posts I replied to, I think the question is what the further consequences will be of Microsoft's currently announced but not yet executed actions to port some exclusives and almost certainly more in the future; whether this necessarily leads to the demise of Xbox as a hardware platform; and - this is the critical question - whether this entirely predictable demise demands that MS needed to have provided an upgrade path for customers with Xbox libraries to PC in their announcement yesterday.

I think that's nuts, personally. But hey, I get other people have other opinions.

avin

 

[CLW]

Tv tv tv tv tv sports tv tv tv tv sports tv tv tv tv

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

That’s very unlikely to happen as long as they’ve got hardware to sell, and as long as they keep launching first on their hardware.
Hard to prioritize a platform getting a port later.

Thats not how prioritizing another platform works in this case, unfortunately. These things never happen over night.

First it would be, they can go to PS platforms after like 1 year. Then its, they can go to it after like 6 months. Then ts let it be day 1. Its still available on gamepass, so rather than call it a console exclusive in any capacity, we just call it a gamepass sub service exclusive, but available everywhere on day 1.

As per your sony-PC reference, that's the part that is kinda similar. They release GAAS type games day 1 on PC, then the window of console exclusivity for some of their releases is shrinking. I doubt any is less than a year yet, but its shrinking. And with PS, that PC market is just a bonus, not something they "need". That's not the same with Xbox.

 

[TrippleA345]

Sorry to hear that. Have you considered therapy?

Yooooo, youre still fighting. I knew it, warriors will never die, despite defeat.

 

[Punished Miku]

The very unique nature of the console market is such that those averages remain kinda the same across generations. Sony is not dependent on their software sales on the PC for their flagship AAA games which can be comfortably supported to success just on their console. They look at PC as an added revenue stream, one that there is no reason to ignore, especially with how they deal with releases on the platform, in such a way that it wouldn't hinder the growth of their primary platform.

The same cannot be said for Xbox. Xbox is in the position they are in now because it has simply spent more money than its platform can recoup on its own. They have unsustainably invested so much that now, they actually need to explore other means of growth, even if that means putting their games on the PS5. I don't have a problem with that, but that is as clear an admission of failure or a long series of bad decisions as there can be. They first tred with teh PC, using that as a way to accelerate the growth of their overall platform. That still didnt work too well for them. And now they are trying to add PlayStation to that too.

A good way to look at this, is that Sony can invest $10B/year in PlayStation. And make $20B/y in revenue back. That is sustainability. They can explore the PC, but that is not taking them up from $20B to $25B, at best it adds another $1B in revenue. Ms simply cannot say the same. I said it during the acquisition saga, that people seem not to notice that MS, in 18 months, is spending more money than Sony and Nintendo combined make from total profits in 4-5 years. For the most part it was ignored. But this is what that kinda decision looks like, this is what that translates to.

Think about that, the benchmark by whcih MS now has to measure growth, is on a completely different scale. Is something that the odd 25M Xbox console owners and 30M dd GP subscribers, simply cannot support, especially considering that game development is a constant ongoing investment.

It think it would be remiss to in any shape or form, be comparing what sony does or has done or will do, to what MS needs to be doing.

I think you have to grow to be stand still basically, and that's how all these companies look at it. If you're not bringing in new, younger customers then you will shrink and vanish over the next 20-30 years, and this is while costs go up.

If a box exists that plays all 3rd parties, and all MS games on PC, and it has cheaper games, and it has easy set up to a TV, Sony will lose market share. Or it could just skip a box altogether and throw everything on Netflix and Gamepass / Xbox streaming apps or build it into most modern TVs with a controller packaged in the box. If at any point enough people skip the console roadblock, then its over.

 

[cash_longfellow]

So its a drip feed of ports?

100%

 

[Pelta88]

I noted that they all looked panicked when I was watching it. Like they were trying to reassure themselves first and foremost.

 

[MisterXDTV]

We have a different vision for the future of gaming. A future where players have a unified experience across devices. A future where players can easily discover a vast array of games with a diverse spectrum of business models. A future where more creators are empowered to realize their creative vision, reach a global audience, unite their communities, and succeed commercially. A future where every screen is an Xbox.

This is a future where Xbox is everywhere—consistent with our promise to empower players to “play the games you want, with the people you want, anywhere you want.”

Read Phil Spencer’s Microsoft memo on “Xbox everywhere”

Microsoft gets ready for a future of Xbox games everywhere.

www.theverge.com

What changed Phil????

 

[jroc74]

"When we look at the state of our medium, we see players increasingly gaming on multiple devices, but their experience is defined by the fragmentation created by platform silos. Multi-device players have to navigate multiple identities, entitlement libraries, communities, wallets, and reward programs. Similarly, the industry’s biggest franchises increasingly ship across multiple devices, requiring creators to build and manage multiple instances of their games, leading to higher costs and fragmented communities. All of this friction creates a tremendous opportunity for us to meet the needs of multi-device players and creators.

We have a different vision for the future of gaming. A future where players have a unified experience across devices. A future where players can easily discover a vast array of games with a diverse spectrum of business models. A future where more creators are empowered to realize their creative vision, reach a global audience, unite their communities, and succeed commercially. A future where every screen is an Xbox."

 

[mckmas8808]

What changed Phil????

SERIOUSLY! What changed? Did he say this to the Wall Street Journal?

 

[MisterXDTV]

SERIOUSLY! What changed? Did he say this to the Wall Street Journal?

Has Xbox really lost the console wars?

Microsoft’s Xbox chief discussed the state of the Xbox business

www.theverge.com

FTC Hearing

June 23, 2023

 

[mckmas8808]

Has Xbox really lost the console wars?

Microsoft’s Xbox chief discussed the state of the Xbox business

www.theverge.com

FTC Hearing

June 23, 2023

Ooooh that's right! There's zero chance Phil actually believes anything that's in that memo, given his thoughts on this VERY issue 6 months ago to the FTC. Must be why he looked so nervous and shaken yesterday.

 

[a_d_a]

I'm not fixated on the console, either PS or Xbox. I care about the games. If someone came in with a console like PC. Which has Xbox,PC and drip fed PS games. I'd buy that and leave console brands behind. Xbox can expand by bringing console users into the PC space. The existing Xbox players. And then some PS ones.

 

[phaedrus]

Start at 21:08 if the url broke

LOL she's got some acting talent to look that animated & excited while spewing out corporate word salad.

That Macbeth quote fits perfectly: "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

 

[Shin-Ra]

Microsoft really like the word ‘empower’ but the discless future they’re pushing for console players is anything but empowering.

Game Pass and similar subscription services aren’t empowering, they choose the available content, prices creep, features and ads are fiddled between tiers to encourage upgrades.

Digital-ownership exists as long as the service provider decides to keep it going, while it’s profitable or aligns with their current strategy. DRM-free content, if you can get it, can be personally backed up but adds to the cost and management of mass storage.

 

[KungFucius]

They totally dropped the ball on this part. I do believe they demonstrated how it benefits creators and the industry. They didn't say a single thing that benefits current Xbox customers.

If their games are successful, they can keep making more games. Is it really that hard to grasp this?