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Playing MGS2 for the first time...
- Thread starter gblues
- Start date
Link
The Autumn Wind
I was one of the many people disappointed by MGS2 the first time through, but after playing through it several more times (which is still something that I only do for a very select few group of games), I've really come to appreciate what it offers. Yes, the story kind of collapsed under its own weight, but I really like where it ended up, despite how it got there. You can't tell me that the whole scene on Arsenal Gear wasn't fucking awesome.
It has its problems, yes, but what it does right far outweighs them. It's still my least favorite of the three MGS games, but it still falls quite high on my list of favorite games.
It has its problems, yes, but what it does right far outweighs them. It's still my least favorite of the three MGS games, but it still falls quite high on my list of favorite games.
I'll say one thing, he looks old as hell on the MGS4 poster handed out at E3. I really doubt Raiden kills him, though. I still think you are all jumping to conclusions about Raiden playing anything more than a supporting role in the next game. Take that teaser for what it is: merely for amusement.SolidSnakex said:
SolidSnakex
Member
Link said:
I don't think Raiden will be taking over during MGS4, Solid will make it through till the ending I believe. I expect him to die in the ending in some way. As you said, the guy looks like hell. There seems to be more behind it given Kojima's comments to PSM
"PSM: Snake is looking so old! Is he nearing his adventuring days?
Kojima: Nice question. I'll leave that to your imagination for now.
"Kojima also said that there were alot of easter eggs in the trailer so you need to watch the trailer to figure it out. One of them is that people think we'll see the real "White Devil". Remember in MGS2 he didn't want to kill anyone or even really fight? This time around he just opens fire on everyone around him (in the trailer). If you look at his artwork he's changed quite a bit. In MGS2 he was really scrawny, now he's bulked a bit. He's not as bulky as Solid but he's definetly bigger. He's also wearing some pretty cool armor on his arms and legs.
I'm expecting big things out of Raiden in the game. He was seen as a joke in MGS2, then Kojima created Raikov to make fun of him even more, so now he can do a 180 and just turn him into someone that's even more badass and ruthless than Solid or Ocelot.
On another note, he did also confirm that its not going to take place in space or on another planet. I guess some people were thinking of that as a possiblity.
it would be darn awesome if Kojima decided to start mgs4 with Raiden as a playable character, mgs2 haters would go like "ooh no not again" but after one hour or so you change back to snake. ^^
I really have the feeling snake will die, if kojima makes it dramatic, cool etc (like the greyfox scene) I'll probably cry like a baby
I really have the feeling snake will die, if kojima makes it dramatic, cool etc (like the greyfox scene) I'll probably cry like a baby
Crazymoogle
Member
Cool stuff SSX. I do hope Raiden works into the story as an interesting secondary character.
What I'd really like to see, though, is Teliko weaved into the main continuity. Sure, Acid isn't part of that and honestly never should be, but the character is just too damned cool to keep on the sidelines.
What I'd really like to see, though, is Teliko weaved into the main continuity. Sure, Acid isn't part of that and honestly never should be, but the character is just too damned cool to keep on the sidelines.
SolidSnakex
Member
I'd expect Raiden to be a large part of the story like The Boss was to MGS3. I don't think you'll get to play as him but you'll get to see a different side of him now that'll let you know why he was given names like Jack the Ripper and White Devil. Like I said he's already looking much cooler than he ever did before
(this is from metalgearsolid.org , they have more of the color art there)
(this is from metalgearsolid.org , they have more of the color art there)
Instigator
Banned
The MGS2 demo in Zone of Enders was really the best part of the game. It's all downhill after that.
Instigator
Banned
MetaKnight said:
Don't forget the talking hand.
Shouta
Member
MGS2 was a solid effort. While the mission objectives and level design could've been better, it wasn't too bad overall. The story really needed better pacing though as the last part of the game compounded too many things at the same time without hinting at it throughout the game. And the whole Rose/Raiden thing was totally mishandled. I can see why they had the relationship in the game but it just felt so whiny most of the time.
echoshifting
Banned
I also disliked this game. I never played the first one so not having Solid Snake wasn't an issue for me...but that fucking codec NEVER STOPPED RINGING. Mediocre boss battles and bad level design galore...blah. I don't even know what the big twist is at the end people complain about it...as soon as I discovered that the oil rig was the only locale for the rest of the game I gave up and sold it.
I'm hoping to go back and play the first MGS someday...maybe the Twin Snakes remake...and then move on to MGS3. MGS2 wasn't exactly a good first exposure to the series...
The tanker intro level was definitely pretty cool, though.
I'm hoping to go back and play the first MGS someday...maybe the Twin Snakes remake...and then move on to MGS3. MGS2 wasn't exactly a good first exposure to the series...
The tanker intro level was definitely pretty cool, though.
Crazymoogle
Member
SolidSnakex said:(this is from metalgearsolid.org , they have more of the color art there)
Looks like Cyborg Ninja gear to me.
SolidSnakex
Member
jet1911 said:
That's where speculation was pointing first. But Olga never had her kid once she gave birth. The Patriots took it from her and she was told that if Raiden died then her kid would too (which is why she kept saving Raiden in MGS2). Solid basically leaves at the end of MGS2 to find her kid and the Patriots. The whole thing points to Olga's baby being alot more important the most thought. We never found out who the kids father was in MGS2, and that's likely the key to his importance.
So people are thinking its Raiden and Rose's kid now. Olga's baby would be around 2 years old now, so it wouldn't look like that.
This is pretty much how I feel. Particularly the level design, which was a great deal better in MGS3.Shouta said:
I'd like to add that the story was fairly stupid and poorly told. Just because MGS2 was dramatic and had interesting subject matter does not automatically make it an enjoyable story.
And anyone who prefers MGS2 to MGS3..... I don't know what to say. I'd like to insult you.... but... is it right to beat up people in wheelchairs? No.
To all the idiots posting spoilers, a hearty "Fuck You."
I just finished the harrier battle, which was fairly easy. I just ducked down to the lower level whenever Solidus started shooting the missiles. And Raiden finally figured out who "Pliskin" really is.
I enjoyed disarming the booby drap on the bridge between the shells. I had to get some help from Campbell and Snake to spot a couple of the controllers, but I found the last one--behind the birds--on my own. Oh, and shooting the seagulls = hilarity.
Nathan
I just finished the harrier battle, which was fairly easy. I just ducked down to the lower level whenever Solidus started shooting the missiles. And Raiden finally figured out who "Pliskin" really is.
I enjoyed disarming the booby drap on the bridge between the shells. I had to get some help from Campbell and Snake to spot a couple of the controllers, but I found the last one--behind the birds--on my own. Oh, and shooting the seagulls = hilarity.
Nathan
Good luck with the end when you get to that point..........and if you don't want spoilers posted you should probably finish the game first before posting about it on said message board. Most people here simply won't consider that they are spoiling anything for you when they post.
CosmicGroinPull
Member
gblues said:
:lol
yeah, I was wondering about that...
Escape Goat
Member
Jeff-DSA said:
And how!
Date of Lies
Banned
SolidSnakex said:
WHAT?
how do u check that out? I mean I know about the
masturbation scene
SolidSnakex
Member
Date of Lies said:
It's after you beat the Harrier. Go to Strut L and a guard will pee off the side of the tower. If you look up in first person while he's peeing you'll see it splashing off Raidens face.
I've tried to play through this game no less than three times BECAUSE of the wacky plot or whatever, but as soon as I get to the first boss, I'm all like "lol I'm not doing that". I can't imagine a worse designed boss fight with the controls they give you, so I quit at that point. Am I missing something?
SolidSnakex
Member
INTERNET said:
Other than an incredibly easy boss fight that shouldn't give anyone any problems? No, not really.
UtadaBarkley
Member
Okay, I know this may be off topic... but regarding Metal Gear Ac!d. WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO WHEN YOU REACH THE PART WHERE YOU
WTF? HELP. I don't wanna look at Gamefaqs becaus ethere are too many spoilers there.
have to wear those different color soldier outfits, and she tells you she senses you'll need some C4 explosives... I've tried blowing up everything... What exactly do I blow Up? I'm on the upper level where that MGS2 pack is stuck between those two fences... I'm in that room with the control station. I tried planting C4 by it and blowing it up with a gun, but nothing happens... Nothing gets destroyed...
CosmicGroinPull
Member
BuddyC said:
NoooooooooOOOOOOOOOoooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooo
CosmicGroinPull
Member
INTERNET said:
You suck at gaming.
But seriously, MGS' first boss fights are always the easiest. You just need to get used to the controls. What's so hard about it? Crouch behind cover, aim with first person mode, use shoulder button (handily pressure-sensitive) to peek out and shoot, get up, roll to another spot, repeat. The controls are perfect. The only thing that's ever bugged me is the crouch/prone mapped to one button.
Regarding MGS2s story, I think Nitroid sums it up nicely on the MGS forums. I pretty much agree.
Some of this might be pushing it but I thought was interesting.
Metal Gear Solid 2 is intentionally convoluted to match the theme. The story focuses on the passing of information to the next generation, via digital means. The question posed is, how do we decide what to pass on when we're surrounded by a sea of useless information?
President Johnson said it best with "We're facing an overabundance of digital information". Most of the dialogue in MGS2 is self-referential, as you can see. In a story with a vampire, a bullet-evading drama Queen, a gunslinger who's posessed by a cloned super soldier via a transplanted arm, an experience and information replicant of Solid Snake, a one-eyed, cyber-suited samurai, giant robots, and a government conspiracy as explained through the words of a virus infested A.I., it is up to the player to figure out what the point of it all is.
The point, my friends, is to find the point.
Don't sweat the bullshit. Wade through it and figure out for yourself what is important to you, and pass it on.
That is the message of MGS2.
President Johnson said it best with "We're facing an overabundance of digital information". Most of the dialogue in MGS2 is self-referential, as you can see. In a story with a vampire, a bullet-evading drama Queen, a gunslinger who's posessed by a cloned super soldier via a transplanted arm, an experience and information replicant of Solid Snake, a one-eyed, cyber-suited samurai, giant robots, and a government conspiracy as explained through the words of a virus infested A.I., it is up to the player to figure out what the point of it all is.
The point, my friends, is to find the point.
Don't sweat the bullshit. Wade through it and figure out for yourself what is important to you, and pass it on.
That is the message of MGS2.
Some of this might be pushing it but I thought was interesting.
I remember finishing Snake Eater for the first time.
Probably at around 2 in the morning, I recall. Naked Snake had completed his mission, assassinated The Boss, and got the girl. Everybody was happy, the screen went dark, and I was ready for the credits. The story was simple, I thought, but the experience was still satisfying.
And then the world fell apart.
My friend Richard said it best in that "Snake Eater is the cruelest game I've ever played", and he's right. Compared to Sons of Liberty, a postmodern, (do we throw that word around enough, guys?), sci-fi, military thriller about information in the digital age, Snake Eater's story plays more with emotions than it does with the mind.
Everything from the Camouflage Index (crawl enough?), to the Survival Viewer (pause enough?), to the nearly creepy Cure subsystem (Uncanny Valley enough?), this game was intentionally designed to be contrived in every aspect except for the story.
Why? Because that's the first place we'd expect it.
Whereas Sons of Liberty provided simple gameplay on top of a layered story, Snake Eater is the polar opposite to it, with a simple story on top of layered gameplay.
When I look at the gameplay in MGS3, I see it as an extension of the story. Niether can exist independently, else it crumble without the right support. But like a reflection in a mirror (MGS2's complexity to MGS3's), you're still seeing the exact same image, just reversed. From a new angle. Still, like all things, you only see what you want to. You can either look at the dimples and not see the whole face, or you can back up and quit focusing on what you think are imperfections.
But don't kid yourself either. The dimples are still there; they've just been covered up with facepaint.
Probably at around 2 in the morning, I recall. Naked Snake had completed his mission, assassinated The Boss, and got the girl. Everybody was happy, the screen went dark, and I was ready for the credits. The story was simple, I thought, but the experience was still satisfying.
And then the world fell apart.
My friend Richard said it best in that "Snake Eater is the cruelest game I've ever played", and he's right. Compared to Sons of Liberty, a postmodern, (do we throw that word around enough, guys?), sci-fi, military thriller about information in the digital age, Snake Eater's story plays more with emotions than it does with the mind.
Everything from the Camouflage Index (crawl enough?), to the Survival Viewer (pause enough?), to the nearly creepy Cure subsystem (Uncanny Valley enough?), this game was intentionally designed to be contrived in every aspect except for the story.
Why? Because that's the first place we'd expect it.
Whereas Sons of Liberty provided simple gameplay on top of a layered story, Snake Eater is the polar opposite to it, with a simple story on top of layered gameplay.
When I look at the gameplay in MGS3, I see it as an extension of the story. Niether can exist independently, else it crumble without the right support. But like a reflection in a mirror (MGS2's complexity to MGS3's), you're still seeing the exact same image, just reversed. From a new angle. Still, like all things, you only see what you want to. You can either look at the dimples and not see the whole face, or you can back up and quit focusing on what you think are imperfections.
But don't kid yourself either. The dimples are still there; they've just been covered up with facepaint.
Crazymoogle
Member
JeffDowns said:
Go out on the 2F hall. I think you need to use it on the wall at the dead end.
SolidSnakex
Member
Ceb said:
That's how you think Raiden is going to turn out? I guess I can see that, especially if he starts getting paranoid about the Patriots wanting to kill him (which I don't think they want to do). They sent Olga into make sure he didn't die so they obviously want him for something and don't simply want to kill him. They could turn him into such a psycho that they'll have people wanting to play as him again.
I'm nearly at the end. I saved at the Solidus boss fight--there was literally 30 minutes of cutscenes between that and the next previous save point (The RAY fight).
Holy shit, the Metal Gear RAY model is weak as hell. I thought in the Tanker chapter they were saying it could withstand HEAT rounds, yet 4 well-timed stinger missiles kills it? The missiles don't home worth shit (at least REX's missiles would hit you if you weren't running full tilt the entire time). The laser is easy as hell to avoid.
Even with 3 attacking at the same time, it was a cakewalk. If the game hadn't forced me to stop, I coulda taken on all 25 RAYs.
I see what the rest of you guys were saying about the plot... but I'm still enjoying it. I wonder if they made Rose into a spy because they just couldn't get a convincing VA performance out of her and so explained it away that she was faking it the entire time.
Having Campbell go grazy-go-nuts inside Arsenal Gear was interesting. Especially when he started reading scripts from MGS/VR Missions/Metal Gear 1 (complete with video from the original game).
Something that's odd is that Raiden reveals that he never went through VR and actually had hands-on experience from his childhood, yet after that Ocelot still refers to Raiden's VR training. So did he have VR training or not?
Nathan
Holy shit, the Metal Gear RAY model is weak as hell. I thought in the Tanker chapter they were saying it could withstand HEAT rounds, yet 4 well-timed stinger missiles kills it? The missiles don't home worth shit (at least REX's missiles would hit you if you weren't running full tilt the entire time). The laser is easy as hell to avoid.
Even with 3 attacking at the same time, it was a cakewalk. If the game hadn't forced me to stop, I coulda taken on all 25 RAYs.
I see what the rest of you guys were saying about the plot... but I'm still enjoying it. I wonder if they made Rose into a spy because they just couldn't get a convincing VA performance out of her and so explained it away that she was faking it the entire time.
Having Campbell go grazy-go-nuts inside Arsenal Gear was interesting. Especially when he started reading scripts from MGS/VR Missions/Metal Gear 1 (complete with video from the original game).
Something that's odd is that Raiden reveals that he never went through VR and actually had hands-on experience from his childhood, yet after that Ocelot still refers to Raiden's VR training. So did he have VR training or not?
Nathan
Crazymoogle
Member
gblues said:
Those are the production model RAYs, reworked to fight against other Metal Gears and running off of AI rather than pilots. They lack the full loadout and power of the prototype unit. The one Revolver Ocelot gets away with is the prototype - and in the beginning of the game - and it has the nukes and equipment to back it up.
The difficulty level actually chooses that for you. The highest difficulty actually does just that, and good luck, because the one just below euro extreme can kill you in two hits.
MGS2 is a fine game. I don't know why people bitch about playing as Raiden. I thought the story was cool, though, it was a bit confusing and to this day I still don't understand all of it. I don't mind games that make you think every once and awhile. I wish you could have explored more the of the Shell though.