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PS3 games list & SPE usages

G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Since this is kind of the catch-all ps3 technical discussion thread, I thought I'd put this here rather than making a new one:

http://www.develop-online.net/news/32826/VIDEO-Sonys-PS3-optimised-physics-SDK

A video about SCE's own cell optimised 'physics effects' library from CEDEC. Hard to tell how well or otherwise it performs vs other solutions in the SDK, but I guess it's another option for devs to try out.

If I were Sony, I'd work toward unifying that API with nvidia's physx effects library so devs could, if resource usage allowed it, more easily port related effects from pc games to their ps3 version.
 
S

SamBa

Banned
WarDevil devs:

“Sony’s hype was right,” said Andy Whitehurst, Digi-Guys founder and veteran GC artist, speaking of Sony’s claim that the Cell processor is ideal for the future of HD gaming.
Click to expand...

Describing the textures as ‘Hollywood grade’, he reveals in the magazine that WarDevil utilises the PS3’s texture bandwidth to support 1k of texture for every square meter of gameworld, at 1024x1024, while the characters faces are rendered with 2k face textures at 2048x2048.
Click to expand...

http://www.develop-online.net/news/32943/Sonys-HD-development-hype-was-right

Maybe the excellent Uncharted 2 will result into even more people being more open minded towards Blu-Ray and Cell and what this can mean for HD gaming.

More and more developers start to really show off the system.
 
R

Raydeen

Member
It's hard to believe developer claims of Sony hardware matching Hollywood CGI after George Lucas boasting he could render the prequels on a PS2.
 
P

pseudocaesar

Member
Digi-Guys? Who the fuck are they, oh thats right the guys that are working in tandem with the worlds top scientists to produce the highest density gas in the world. This gas, or vapor, is known as the War Devil. Scientists working for the UN are quick to criticise the controversial title, fearing its applications outside of the scientific spectrum may be put to wrong use. The vapor has some serious side effects, in some cases people exposed to war devil end up with an altered state of mind, in which their expectations of the real world are drastically hightened, this then causes the people to feel disappointment and anger once reality sets back in.
 
S

SamBa

Banned
pseudocaesar said:
Digi-Guys? Who the fuck are they
Click to expand...

Some background info from Edge Magazine.

"They said [Sony]: 'Here's some devkits. Let's see what you can do'. So we got a very quick build running, then there was this whole shebang for the E3 2006 [PS3] launch, with everyone having to sbmit what they were doing." WarDevil was lucky enough to be picked, and together with Heavy Rain was one of few non-aligned projects on show. "It was good for us and it wasn't, because we were just 16 people at the time, with all the pressure of doing it."
 
S

SamBa

Banned
About the animation supervisor of the Digi-guys.

"Emmy and Peabody Award-winning animator Timothy "Amadhi" Albee has been a professional in the entertainment industry since 1991. His career history includes: Writer, Director, Producer, 2D "Traditional" Animator, 3D CGI Animator, Character Designer, Technical Director, Compositor, Storyboard and Concept Artist. Albee has worked on Feature Films, Commercials, Video Games, and Documentaries, for companies including NBC/Universal, SciFi Networks, Activision, and Walt Disney Feature Animation."
 
3

3rdman

Member
So I see that MikeB has a new account in SamB(a)...I look forward to hearing more about how awesome the PS3 is! I hear that its on its way to curing cancer and solving the Middle East...It's true! I'll dig up a developer quote and show you! :D
 
manzo

manzo

Member
SamBa said:
Some Capcom developers clarify how the PS3 version of Resident Evil is tear free unlike the 360 version.

They say they used a triple buffer on the PS3 which was not possible for them to do on the 360 (10 MB eDRAM) with enough performance. They also state for this game they started using a SPU to help the RSX on shader workload.

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/3dcg/20090601_170531.html
Click to expand...

Welcome back MikeB. :lol

They should've used the triple buffer memory for getting the textures to the same level as on the 360 version.
 
S

ScrabbleBanshee

Member
3rdman said:
So I see that MikeB has a new account in SamB(a)...I look forward to hearing more about how awesome the PS3 is! I hear that its on its way to curing cancer and solving the Middle East...It's true! I'll dig up a developer quote and show you! :D
Click to expand...

I guess you were trying to be sarcastic but...
ps3-folding-at-home-screenshot-big.jpg
 
adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
SamBa said:
Some Capcom developers clarify how the PS3 version of Resident Evil is tear free unlike the 360 version.

They say they used a triple buffer on the PS3 which was not possible for them to do on the 360 (10 MB eDRAM) with enough performance. They also state for this game they started using a SPU to help the RSX on shader workload.

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/3dcg/20090601_170531.html
Click to expand...

but the texture resolution is worse, not to mention frame drops.
 
D

Dragon

Banned
Draft said:
Yeah they really shined the shit out of Resident Evil didn't they.
Click to expand...

Are you okay?

3rdman said:
So I see that MikeB has a new account in SamB(a)...I look forward to hearing more about how awesome the PS3 is! I hear that its on its way to curing cancer and solving the Middle East...It's true! I'll dig up a developer quote and show you! :D
Click to expand...

pr0cs said:
I'm glad I wasn't the only one to think this.
Click to expand...

I look forward to the whining.
 
Synless

Synless

Member
manzo said:
Welcome back MikeB. :lol

They should've used the triple buffer memory for getting the textures to the same level as on the 360 version.
Click to expand...
Where in the game are the textures worse? The only thing I've seen in all the comparison videos and pics is that it's missing the reflective water in some areas of the game and the framerate dips.

Also wow at Capcom for "starting" to use one whole SPU!!!!!!!!
 
C

CrayzeeCarl

Member
Synless said:
Also wow at Capcom for "starting" to use one whole SPU!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
This! What the hell?! The PS3 has been out for over three years and they're just now learning to use one of the six available SPUs? smh
 
adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Synless said:
Isn't that because of the shitty blur filter AA they used that gives the appearance of having less detail. I'm pretty sure it is. Quincunx I think?
Click to expand...

The Digital Foundry comparison from way back in march also mentions things like low frame rates, some missing special effects, the 360 version having 4x AA compared to the PS3's 2x and other things.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/face-off-resident-evil-5-article
 
U

UntoldDreams

Member
Tearing versus Framerate dropping. Which is more annoying to people?

I don't mind a variable framerate if the tearing is gone (unless the framerate is truly atrocious).
 
H

hirokazu

Member
UntoldDreams said:
Tearing versus Framerate dropping. Which is more annoying to people?

I don't mind a variable framerate if the tearing is gone (unless the framerate is truly atrocious).
Click to expand...
Tearing is the worst thing to ever grace console games!
 
M

MrJollyLivesNextDoor

Member
Synless said:
I knew all of those, I just wasn't aware of a texture difference. Thanks for the explanation though.
Click to expand...

the textures are more than likely the same, the method of AA used is different, QCAA is known to slightly blur everything on screen (including textures) whereas more traditonal methods of AA simply smoothes out edges.
 
H

H.Cornerstone

Member
Lagspike_exe said:
Uncharted 2 has a budget of around $20 million. Killzone 2 is anywhere from $20 million to $40 million (which was and still is the biggest budget SCEWWS has given to any dev ever, for God of War 3). By no means unlimited, no?

Also, you are wrong about Quincunx. It gives IQ that's better than 2xMSAA, but to an extant worst than 4xMSAA.

Here, take these screenshots as an example:

Geforce 3, 1024x768, 2xMSAA:
http://www.nvnews.net/previews/geforce3/images/antialiasing/gf3_q3_1024x768_2xaa.shtml

Geforce 3, 1024x768, Quincunx AA:
http://www.nvnews.net/previews/geforce3/images/antialiasing/gf3_q3_1024x768_qcaa.shtml

There is blur, but you really need to look at an object to notice a small amount of it. And it looks better than 2xMSAA, because of less jaggies.
Click to expand...

The only reason Killzone 2 had such a big budget was becuase the Netherlands subsidized part of it. :)
 
S

SamBa

Banned
Synless said:
Isn't that because of the shitty blur filter AA they used that gives the appearance of having less detail. I'm pretty sure it is. Quincunx I think?
Click to expand...

A matter of preference and depends on the game in question. For one game 'normal' FSAA may look better and for another the softer Quincunx method.

The textures in RE5 are the same, but with quincunx you get a higher level of anti-aliasing but more blurring. Implementing too much 'normal' anti-aliasing will also result into a more blurred image. I think usually for a game with high quality textures as less as possible blur should be used [you only want to get rid of aliasing problems not create new ones] unless it's for some kind of in-game effect as it negatively effects detail perception. On the other hand low quality textures can benefit from such blurring.

Personally I think good edge blurring or other specific edge anti-liasing methods in a high enough resolution should in many cases be the most beneficial for providing a game with sharp top quality graphics.
 
S

SamBa

Banned
chandoog said:
The Digital Foundry comparison from way back in march also mentions things like low frame rates, some missing special effects, the 360 version having 4x AA compared to the PS3's 2x and other things.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/face-off-resident-evil-5-article
Click to expand...

I think their comparisons are becoming more interesting and less biased. I think it's due to two reasons, 1 for the bulk of multi-platform games the differences have become tiny, you from the grand view basically have two identical games and of course Sony's excellent first parties games which are all at least rendering in 720p and have gone far beyond technically what is provided by both multi-platform games and 360 first party games.

They seem confused with Tekken 6, noting if one would blindly look at their data you could fail to realize the PS3 version looks a bit better.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-tekken6-resolution-game-blog-post

Actually the same is for example the case for GTA IV on both platforms. The PS3 version simply looks a bit better despite multi-platforming sacrifices. I would love to see what they could accomplish developing a GTA for the PS3 exclusively.
 
S

SamBa

Banned
Interesting to watch:

http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/digitalfoundry-uncharted-2-mastering-the-cell

Many hardcore gamers by now have probably tried Uncharted 2: Among thieves.

Uncharted 2 is really a game which highlights what this thread was about originally. Of course there's still room for a lot of technical optimisations for a future Uncharted 3. But this game does a lot really well from a technical perspective already.

It can be used to bust quite a few myths regarding the PS3 using a high capacity Blu-Ray drive, a default harddrive and of course the Cell processor to a developer's advantage.

There were claims of severe graphics RAM and power limitations compared to the XBox 360. This game really highlights this was FUD, the PS3 is just different. The graphics are well beyond any 360 game out there. The PS3 has about just as much main RAM available to the GPU as the 360 without having to worry about the 10 MB tiling issues on a daughter chip, actually splitting up the RAM onto two seperate buses increases potential bandwidth. The RSX if needed can use both types of RAM simultaneously, just the XDR provides much lower latency when used by the Cell.

The default harddrive and Blu-Ray capacity / streaming abilities actually provides the PS3 a big RAM advantage. Uncharted 2 really shows off what a proper streaming engine is capable of on the PS3, no mandatory harddrive install, great load times, no real pop-in issues, just amazing detail and quality.
 
A

AnIco

Member
Honestly, the discussion of hardware superiority between the PS3 and 360 was effectively over the day Uncharted 1 released. It still sports better textures and lighting than anything the 360 has displayed.

As time has gone on, we've been constantly reminded of the fact that the PS3 is more powerful with games like Gran Turismo 5: Prologue, Killzone 2, and Uncharted 2.

It's pretty much a dead discussion at this point, but I really wish PS3 game sales justified development budget/resources going towards making the PS3 version first and then leaving the 360 as a second thought port, but that's unlikely to change at least for the next year or so.
 
W

word up

Neo Member
SamBa, honestly, why do you care so much? It's not like the 360 and ps3 are poles apart.
The differences that might seem so important to you now won't mean much looking back in a few years. They are both great systems and yes it is fun to have an interest in the tech.

But dude, come on.
 
L

Lince

Banned
SamBa said:
no real pop-in issues, just amazing detail and quality.
Click to expand...

well to be honest there are some minor draw-in and LOD issues but Naughty Dog worked hard to make them almost invisible to the untrained eye.
 
T

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
SamBa said:
Junior Member
Click to expand...

This'll be good...

Chandoog said:
>>Comparisons<<
Click to expand...

ZOMG ONE IS LESS DETAILED THAN THE OTHER! THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

*yawn*

The only bad thing about the PS3 port of Biohazard 5 is the framerate. It still looks good for what it does.
 
J

JB1981

Member
SamBa said:
Interesting to watch:

http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/digitalfoundry-uncharted-2-mastering-the-cell

Many hardcore gamers by now have probably tried Uncharted 2: Among thieves.

Uncharted 2 is really a game which highlights what this thread was about originally. Of course there's still room for a lot of technical optimisations for a future Uncharted 3. But this game does a lot really well from a technical perspective already.

It can be used to bust quite a few myths regarding the PS3 using a high capacity Blu-Ray drive, a default harddrive and of course the Cell processor to a developer's advantage.

There were claims of severe graphics RAM and power limitations compared to the XBox 360. This game really highlights this was FUD, the PS3 is just different. The graphics are well beyond any 360 game out there. The PS3 has about just as much main RAM available to the GPU as the 360 without having to worry about the 10 MB tiling issues on a daughter chip, actually splitting up the RAM onto two seperate buses increases potential bandwidth. The RSX if needed can use both types of RAM simultaneously, just the XDR provides much lower latency when used by the Cell.

The default harddrive and Blu-Ray capacity / streaming abilities actually provides the PS3 a big RAM advantage. Uncharted 2 really shows off what a proper streaming engine is capable of on the PS3, no mandatory harddrive install, great load times, no real pop-in issues, just amazing detail and quality.
Click to expand...

I know nothing about graphics tech, but I can tell you that Uncharted 2 is the most amazing looking console game I've ever laid eyes on and yes, it is a game-changer when it comes to comparing the relative "power" of each console imo. It is this year's MGS 2.
 
D

Draft

Member
AnIco said:
It's pretty much a dead discussion at this point, but I really wish PS3 game sales justified development budget/resources going towards making the PS3 version first and then leaving the 360 as a second thought port, but that's unlikely to change at least for the next year or so.
Click to expand...
Or ever, really.
 
S

SamBa

Banned
AnIco said:
It's pretty much a dead discussion at this point, but I really wish PS3 game sales justified development budget/resources going towards making the PS3 version first and then leaving the 360 as a second thought port, but that's unlikely to change at least for the next year or so.
Click to expand...

This is probably going to take some time, first step is for the PS3 to overtake the 360's install base. But even then like was the case on the Amiga with its many ST ports it's probably going to take time before some developers switch to more efficient and effective methods. But probably at that point most probably will, this to not look too backwards compared to those who did.

Later multi-plaform PS3 and PC games will probably take good leaps technically once the 360 will be discontinued.
 
S

SamBa

Banned
word up said:
SamBa, honestly, why do you care so much? It's not like the 360 and ps3 are poles apart.
Click to expand...

I think in the end there will be a general consensus that they were.

I like the PS3 technology and I disliked the misinformation Microsoft spread about both consoles in the past. Actually many people here seemed to care, as many people went to extremes to defend Microsoft and the XBox 360, even going down to mass attacks on people who tried to provide clarification and corrections.
 
luca_29_bg

luca_29_bg

Member
samba i need geometric water in uncharted 3, i hate, really hate shader effect water....with all myself! ND in the past talks about the water for uncharted 1 and the desire to change it for uncharted 2 because they not like that kind of water...maybe something goes wrong...cross finger for uncharted 3 and a geometric water... ^^
 
S

SamBa

Banned
szaromir said:
How about - we don't care? My PC is several times more powerful than either console (looking at raw power).
Click to expand...

Regarding the CPU probably not. More RAM and newer GPU quite likely. Maybe you have Blu-Ray but I don't think any PC games take advantage of this and maybe future PC Blu-Ray games still require a near full harddrive install like has always been the case so far.

The problem with gaming PCs currently is that console gaming is much more popular currently. Many hardcore gamers prefer modern console gaming as it provides more comfort (for example using multiple wireless gamepads for multi-playing) and is relatively effortless. A PS3 looks sweet underneath a HDTV unlike most PCs.

Games also get a lot more optimised eventually as developers can focus on one specific setup, with console entry pricing going down and game engine efficiency going up the PS3 can provide an even better value for gamers in course of time, while games for your PC will never really get this optimised due to so many different setups and Windows by itself also drains a lot of the hardware's potential. It's likely you'll want to upgrade sooner or later if this matters to you.

It's also striking that the most popular PC game series usually don't demand high system specifications.
 
B

Bearillusion

Banned
I'd like to know how other devs feel when they see a game like UC2.

UC2 really is incredible in just every way. Last night while playing it I found myself shaking my head in disbelief.
 
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