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Putin dispatching nuclear warships to Baltic as NATO vows to defend its members
- Thread starter LordOfLore
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Umm what? There's no Far Right movement rising in Spain, not even close.
RocknRola
Member
Spain isn't really far right. Silly assumption to make.
The US South, Great Plains, and Rocky Mountain states have been far right for a long, long time.
pants
Member
It's been pretty amazing how people have been conditioned to have an instant negative reaction to anything Russian and how it's been used as diversion tactics by various quarters of governments. I even see it in online gaming communities 'A RUSSIAN, GET EM BOYS' (Dota, Rust) lol
itsbenoclock
Member
Being from the UK this means nothing to me, we've got one out there in the world all the time (unless they're still being repaired idk) anyway so fairly meaningless...just like all nukes.
capitalCORN
Member
Why do we even allow Russia this much leeway? Smack their hands off the cookie jar!
Charles Brandon
Member
The UK hasn't been taken over by the far right. I know brexit happened but that is not the same as actual far-right government. That's ridiculous.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
It's a pretty ridiculous list when you consider that Spain doesn't even have a proper government yet, but a caretaker one. And Germany? Come one now.
Maybe there'll be another secession 😣
The conservative government we have now are about as far right as they're ever going to get. They may not be stereotypically far right, but they're pretty awful. That list is still silly though.
Charles Brandon
Member
I agree with that. They are off the deep end as far as the UK political spectrum goes but that does not make them far-right by any reasonable definition.
Vindicator
Member
Having someone like Lieberman as defense secretary, Israel counts as well.
thelastcrusader
Banned
Russians deal in deception tactics so it's for a reason we just don't know until they want us to.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_deception
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_deception
It's not always just about the US. There's a lot of stuff going on right now with Syria, Ukraine, Russian financed propaganda all over Europe, pipeline deals, talk of new sanctions, giant troop exercises, Eastern European armament and rising support in Sweden and Finland to join or get closer to NATO.
Just a big mess with rising pressure. Russia loves to remind everyone what they're capable of in times like these.
Charles Brandon
Member
it's just dick waving
My guess is that it's either a move to compensate for the Baltic Fleet ships that were sent to Syria or some kind of diversion. If it's actually a real, permanent redeployment that would actually be really concerning. It would be a sign that Russia is consolidating its forces in the Baltic region and no matter if that's because of tensions or actual plans to try something it's an example of continuing escalation.
The Baltic region is on a very dangerous path right now. A permanent redeployment would add fuel to the fire.
The Baltic region is on a very dangerous path right now. A permanent redeployment would add fuel to the fire.
Charles Brandon
Member
apparently the official Russian Embassy to the UK twitter account posted this
SliceSabre
Banned
More dick waving by NATO. Can't let Russia's dick waving one up them!
Yep: https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/789903797803970560apparently the official Russian Embassy to the UK twitter account posted this
That account is pretty funny. Like an angsty teenager, but it's actually the official Russian Embassy account.
https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/789904747100774400
https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/790943872251723776
https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/791592422828638208
thelastcrusader
Banned
Lol 800 soldiers. Yeah Mother Russia is shaking in her boots I'm sure. I wish everyone just put their fucking dicks away!
Dick waving? Did you read the article? NATO is severely overpowered in the Baltic and Eastern European theaters. This deployment is basically to make sure that enough British and US troops die in a Russian attack that neither country could stay out of the war. It has a deescalating purpose by raising the threshold for action. They used to call them "tripwire forces" during the Cold War.
See above. They're not stationed there to fight and win, they're stationed there to slow down an invasion and die. Mostly the latter.
SliceSabre
Banned
Yes I did and it is still dick waving regardless of the reasoning(or size) or even if this force could actually hold off the Russians should they invade.
EDIT: For me dick waving = displays of power
Only if you assume that there isn't an imminent threat of war, except there absolutely is. Russia's actions since the invasion of Crimea is completely consistent with a country preparing for conflict and with the continuing escalation and breakdown of diplomatic contact, this will absolutely end badly if there isn't either a balance between forces in the theatre or some sort of diplomatic deescalation (something that looks more unlikely by the day)
The problem is that Euro-NATO and Sweden have gone way too far with their dearmament processes while Russia has rapidly rearmed. Eastern Europe is a strategic vacuum right now, and there's nothing more destabilising than that. The NATO redeployments are an attempt at shrinking that vacuum. They're not dick waving, they're deployed to decrease the threat of war!
EDIT: It's not a display of power. It's a message that if Russia attacks, NATO will have lost so many men already that it can't stay out of the war. It's put in place to stop Russia from invading in the belief that the rest of NATO would just cut the Baltics loose seeing as how they haven't suffered any losses yet.
thelastcrusader
Banned
I saw. They're basically fodder.
Risible
Member
Teddy KGB is that you??
Charles Brandon
Member
Interesting insight. I would have thought that the chances of an actual war between NATO and Russia are rather small though, even if they are increasing.
thelastcrusader
Banned
Yeah people are pretty blissfully ignorant. We are very close to war and yet we keep fucking around.
I get that the forces are there and capable of starting a war any time, but what's the motivation to actually go further than posturing?
The posturing is great for Putin because he gets to fuel the us vs them rhetoric and strengthen his power base, he gets to present his country as strong at a time when they are actually being heavily damaged economically by oil prices and sanctions. An actual war for territory does very little except cripple his economy even further and get a lot of his most loyal citizens killed.
The posturing is great for Putin because he gets to fuel the us vs them rhetoric and strengthen his power base, he gets to present his country as strong at a time when they are actually being heavily damaged economically by oil prices and sanctions. An actual war for territory does very little except cripple his economy even further and get a lot of his most loyal citizens killed.
Charles Brandon
Member
I would have thought that Putin's strategy works up to the point at which he actually has to start fighting NATO, at which point things will go wrong. Therefore I assume he will not push matters over beyond the brink. However, things to have a habit of getting out of control by themselves in the right conditions. That being said, we (the planet) got through the Cuba Missile Crisis, we got through the cold war and two proxy wars with China and none of it escalated into a world conflict. The stakes were too high then, they are higher now,
Same motivation for invading and conquering Crimea, starting the frozen conflict in eastern Ukraine and escalating to the point of war in Georgia: creating a destabilised buffer around their border in lieu of actual allies and weakening their percieved present and future rivals.
Think of a succesful invasion of the Baltics, where NATO refused to honor their treaties with the Balts, as the holy grail for Putinist Russia. In one stroke, they would neuter NATO and probably cause the EU to disintegrate. Once that's done they would emerge the undisputed dominant power of Eastern Europe and have completely secured their western border. It's not about territory, it's about control. Control over the Black Sea from Crimea. Control of the Baltic Sea from St Petersburg, Kaliningrad and the Baltic States.
The Russian government are aware that they are living on borrowed time. Russia's relative power is declining sharply, and its absolute power will follow soon. But right now, they have a window for military action - for the next 5-10 years they will be disproportionately militarily powerful compared to Euro-NATO, with a peak right about now. Euro-NATO is demobilised and the rearmament processes many members have just now announced will take years and years to complete. At the same time, Russia is finalising its own rearmament process.
If you're wondering what the point in destroying NATO and the EU is, that's pretty easy to explain. For one, Russia is genuinely worried about having the worlds premier military alliance right next door. It's irrational to us, but it's very Russian. They simply don't trust us. With NATO gone they can breath a bit easier and get some legroom they don't feel they have right now. For another, breaking the EU would plunge a lot of Eastern European nations into economic distress and leave them desperately looking for assistance. So why not Russia? And why not at terms advantageous to Russia? Look up the Eurasien Economic Union. That's the Russian EU/Commonwealth/USSR hybrid that was supposed to secure Russia's economic future but failed completely once Ukraine was turned from ally to enemy. With the EU gone, plenty of countries - like an occupied Baltics, Hungary, Balkan states like Serbia, maybe even others - could be coaxed to join.
Simply put, Russia have plenty of reasons to start a war, provided they think they can win and do it without triggering World War 3. Just because it seems nonsensical to us doesn't mean it is to them. Standards of living is not the priority of Russia anywhere close to as much as national survival at all costs is.
We escaped nuclear annihilation last century as much due to luck as sense. You win 5 times out of 6 when you play Russian roulette. That's not an argument to keep playing.
ape2man
Member
nice post nivash
" For one, Russia is genuinely worried about having the worlds premier military alliance right next door. It's irrational to us, but it's very Russian. "
How is Russia being worried about NATO power buildup at Russian borders "irrational but very Russian" but when two shitty Russian corvettes gets deployed in the Baltic from Syria it's suddenly "really worrisome". Shit makes no sense.
How is Russia being worried about NATO power buildup at Russian borders "irrational but very Russian" but when two shitty Russian corvettes gets deployed in the Baltic from Syria it's suddenly "really worrisome". Shit makes no sense.
makingmusic476
Member
Putin seems to have no interest in the economic aspects of the USSR. He seems only interested in its geopolitical prowess.
andythinkpad
Member
Russian's carrier is motherfucking broken. It's the smokiest naval vessel I ever seen.
Disagree Guy
Member
Still a risk of nuclear war....
In 2016
In 2016
thelastcrusader
Banned
I don't get this. What does 2016 have to do with this? Genocides are still happening. Dictators are still happening. 2000s might be the era of technology but evil people still exist.Still a risk of nuclear war....
In 2016
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
There is a reason tugboats are dispatched with it.
Disagree Guy
Member
I dunno I guess I just think learning from your mistakes from the past is a thing.....
Apparently not to most of humanity
Charles Brandon
Member
Sure. But that doesn't mean that we are about to go to war. The situation is no where near as charged as some of those incidents in the past.
The Lamonster
Member
Why can't he just go buy a muscle car like other insecure older men?
When is the last time NATO attempted to annex land within the border regions between NATO states and Russia?
That's your answer. Russia have been the aggressors along the border, escalating the situation. Largely because Putin is a strongman oligarch and strongmen who aren't flexing their muscles regularly don't stay in power long.
ClosingADoor
Member
Because one side has recently annexed part of another country. And it ain't NATO.
Charles Brandon
Member
Replace NATO with "The West" and you have Napoleon and Hitler, who both attacked from the West and both took heavy casualties to repel. Russia has a long memory. Not to say that justifies their behavior but it's not complete bollocks either.
That's the reason they kept hold of all the eastern european states after WW2 and it's the reason they feel uncomfortable with those states being allied to NATO/ The EU now.
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