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[Angelus Errare]

I think what we should take away from all of this is. As a black person I have learned to:

-Never look cops in the eyes
-Whistle the most nonthreatening song one can think of so that I don't get shot or searched randomly I usually whistle Taylor Swift or Carrie Underwood sometimes Drake.
-If I'm ever taken to county my life is pretty much fucked because they're definitely not giving me a pass.
-Don't even buy baby powder or flour or powdered sugar.
-If you get pulled over you'll either be shot or get lucky and the cop will let you go with maybe a warning or a ticket....but don't risk it.

 

[BitStyle]

Racism is weird. Everybody knows it totally exists, but when you look at any specific situation, racism is never involved. You can know that it exists, but when you look for it, it turns into something else.

Racism is quantum locked. It doesn't exist when it's being observed. The moment it is seen by any living creature, it freezes into a coincidence.

You know, I find that description pretty spot-on; it's almost always "coincidental."

 

[Tenrius]

Oh okay let's get hung up on a minor detail despite the entire fucking point of this thread.

I don't particularly care for this line of reasoning either, but he does have, at least technically, a valid point and it's no good to gang up on him for that.

 

[Timedog]

I don't see how? From what I can tell he just pointed out that the OP's example was inconclusive at best because he didn't know all the details of the man's criminal history.

You mean what if the black man didn't get let off free for a bunch of offenses?

.

 

[Devolution]

I think what we should take away from all of this is. As a black person I have learned to:

-Never look cops in the eyes
-Whistle the most nonthreatening song one can think of so that I don't get shot or searched randomly I usually whistle Taylor Swift or Carrie Underwood sometimes Drake.
-If I'm ever taken to county my life is pretty much fucked because they're definitely not giving me a pass.
-Don't even buy baby powder or flour or powdered sugar.
-If you get pulled over you'll either be shot or get lucky and the cop will let you go with maybe a warning or a ticket....but don't risk it.

Put your wallet on the dash in sight before you pull over. Trick my friend told me he does to avoid any "he's got a gun" nonsense.

I don't particularly care for this line of reasoning either, but he does have, at least technically, a valid point and it's no good to gang up on him for that.

You mean what if the black man didn't get let off free for a bunch of offenses?

 

[Angelus Errare]

Put your wallet on the dash in sight before you pull over. Trick my friend told me he does to avoid any "he's got a gun" nonsense.

Shit they just plant weapons nowadays.

 

[Lunchbox]

teast

take off my avatar you thief

 

[JohnDoe]

take off my avatar you thief

You want that permaban, eh?

 

[DanteFox]

.

We don't know if he had prior offenses or if he did, whether they were as minor as OP's. I'm no lawyer, but I think if he had a history of non-trivial offenses, then that might be why they didn't let it slide. Maybe someone with more knowledge on the subject can correct me if I'm wrong though.

 

[freenudemacusers]

take off my avatar you thief

this can only be settled by posting lunch receipts.

 

[cutmeamango]

If his order is chronological, marijuana possession would have been his second offense, yet the first was dropped. So he was summoned with zero offenses.

 

[JohnDoe]

Why are people still arguing this priors nonsense?

The fact that he got off so easily for marijuana possession alone is enough. If you are black and caught with weed may the lord have mercy upon your soul.

 

[sphagnum]

Racism is weird. Everybody knows it totally exists, but when you look at any specific situation, racism is never involved. You can know that it exists, but when you look for it, it turns into something else.

Racism is quantum locked. It doesn't exist when it's being observed. The moment it is seen by any living creature, it freezes into a coincidence.

Think I'm going to have to steal this one for future use...

 

[Anonumos]

When I was a kid, I used to work at a supermarket and we had these reward cards that save customers money but also gets them points that they can redeem later on.

Whenever customers did not have their card, I'd scan mine for them - something which everyone at work did, and it was pretty much normal. Eventually though, I amassed about 5 bucks worth of points and one day I used my card to buy a bunch of stuff and I got it all for free. I did this a few times I didn't even think twice about it till I got busted.

My boss had already called the police and they were waiting to arrest me in the store. He called me in his office and asked me about what was happened because he said it wasn't in my character to steal. I told him everything and I broke down crying. I told him I didn't realize that I was stealing money and that I just thought I was helping customers and getting points for it. I really didn't get it at the time. I was 14 years old. I got fired but the dude didn't have me arrested.


Today I am looking at a 6 figure salary once a graduate and I already have a residency lined-up. I always think back to that one day and realize just how close I came to becoming a statistic.

Damn.

 

[Devolution]

We don't know if he had prior offenses or if he did, whether they were as minor as OP's. I'm no lawyer, but I think if he had a history of non-trivial offenses, then that might be why they didn't let it slide. Maybe someone with more knowledge on the subject can correct me if I'm wrong though.

In New York City, the police routinely stop and frisk pedestrians walking down the street, more than half a million people a year. More than 80% of them are black or Latino. Between 1997 and 2006, more than 350,000 people in NYC were arrested for marijuana possession; blacks were five times more likely than whites to be arrested, even though we know that whites smoke marijuana at slightly higher rates than blacks.

And that’s just the first step. Once someone is arrested, it’s up to the prosecutor to decide what to charge them. And blacks and Latinos routinely face far more serious charges for the same offense than whites. They also get to decide whether to charge them in state or federal court (federal laws carry harsher penalties). In one study in California, of 2200 cases referred to federal court for crack, not a single one of the defendants was white. Not one.

.

 

[DanteFox]

.

Did I say racism doesn't exist?

 

[JDSN]

At least you are aware that there is a fundamental difference between how the law sees different groups of people, most people like Racism Defense force over there like to pretend that this is not important through false equivalence that superficial dismissing of facts by calling it "bias". Being aware of the gap is what is important.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Racism is weird. Everybody knows it totally exists, but when you look at any specific situation, racism is never involved. You can know that it exists, but when you look for it, it turns into something else.

Racism is quantum locked. It doesn't exist when it's being observed. The moment it is seen by any living creature, it freezes into a coincidence.

we need a name for this phenomenon.

for future reference...

 

[Angelus Errare]

Why are people still arguing this priors nonsense?

The fact that he got off so easily for marijuana possession alone is enough. If you are black and caught with weed may the lord have mercy upon your soul.

This, if you're black and you get caught with any amounts of marijuana your life is over period. White with weed? slap on the wrist and maybe even the number to a better dealer.

 

[Slayven]

we need a name for this phenomenon.

for future reference...

The H-town Principle.

 

[Devolution]

Did I say racism doesn't exist?

What don't some of you get about the op going "Hey look at all this shit I got away with."? For some reason your response is "but you don't know what that black guy did." And you wonder why a number of us just don't want to take you seriously. Just how obtuse are some of you?

 

[Timedog]

a half ounce is like 140-200 bucks. I bet OP was getting the #rare #based shit though, and the cops wanted to pinch.

 

[Lunchbox]

a half ounce is like 140-200 bucks. I bet OP was getting the #rare #based shit though, and the cops wanted to pinch.

ops a dro goblin

 

[Amentallica]

NVM

 

[Onemic]

a half ounce is like 140-200 bucks. I bet OP was getting the #rare #based shit though, and the cops wanted to pinch.

Timedog getting ripped off with dem prices.

 

[Tenrius]

By the way, as an outsider, it's somewhat difficult to get a feel of what the racial situation is like in the USA. It's pretty different in Russia: well, there are various minorities coming from Caucasus, who are usually treated very differently and very negatively, but that's mostly because they often don't even speak Russian very well and their very distinctive cultures have some disturbingly alien elements (blood feuds and the like in some cases). But outside of that, there is no real racial bias, and ethnicities like Tatars, Bashkirs, Buryats and many more are generally accepted even outside their home regions. That's probably because their culture is by and large Russian with some regional flavour.

That makes it hard to grasp why the black people are treated so differently in the US. At a first glance, they would fall into the latter category: the only thing that is supposed to be different about them is their skin colour, since they lived for many generations in America and should possess the same cultual identity.

Mind you that I'm not saying I don't understand how racism works — I do, in theory. It's just hard to understand how it feels to live in such an environment where race seems to play such a big role in people's daily lives. On a side note, I've never had a chance to have a real-life conversation with a black person, let alone meeting one.

 

[Legendary_Red]

Not sure there is any way to actually prove what OP is saying, everyone in this thread seems to be going off of anecdotal evidence.

 

[DanteFox]

What don't some of you get about the op going "Hey look at all this shit I got away with."? For some reason your response is "but you don't know what that black guy did." And you wonder why a number of us just don't want to take you seriously. Just how obtuse are some of you?

I agree with the some of the sentiment behind the OP, I just don't think any of his examples prove that sentiment in the least. There are so many examples he could have chosen to make his point, but the ones he chose are pretty weak.

 

[Devolution]

Not sure there is any way to actually prove what OP is saying, everyone in this thread seems to be going off of anecdotal evidence.

Yes. Complete anecdotal evidence when there are plenty of statistics that back up racial prejudice in the justice system.

 

[entremet]

You don't even have to be black to see that African Americans are woefully targeted by our justice system. Poverty and lack of legal representation due to poverty also hurts.

 

[Cyan]

I agree with the some of the sentiment behind the OP, I just don't think any of his examples prove that sentiment in the least. There are so many examples he could have chosen to make his point, but the ones he chose are pretty weak.

He chose these examples because they're what personally happened to him.

It's... I don't really get it. He's not saying "here, finally is PROOF that the system is racist," just talking about his own experiences and how he sort of realized that he'd probably be fucked if he was black.

This isn't a particularly outlandish claim. It's not like he's talking about his experiences with UFOs and we need to find rational explanations for what he thinks he saw. It's well-understood that the justice system in America has a massive crick in its neck that makes it look at black people sideways.

 

[Timedog]

Did I say racism doesn't exist?

Yeah, more or less, by the H-Town Principle.

It's funny that instead of actually having a discussion on the subject at hand, you want to nitpick inane details to prove to remind everyone that we have not invented a mind reading machine, and so we cannot conclusively state that any particular instance of anything is necessarily racist.

Even if the black guy didn't have priors, you can't prove it's racist. What if there were different prosecutors?

Even if the prosecutors were the same, you can't prove it's racist. What if he was rude to the judge?

Even if he wasn't rude to the judge, you can't prove it's racist. What if...

The point isn't that that specific situation is an assured signal of inequality. Racism is almost always a question mark. But it probably is. The fact that you--instead of making any attempt to show any sort of empathy, nitpick some inane detail which will obviously incense people and derail a discussion on an already sensitive issue--is telling.

What you need to do is stop. Listen. Empathy requires that. That's what empathy is. Nitpicking some stupid little thing because you just have to be contrarian in a sensitive race thread is the opposite of empathy. If you do not show that you have empathy towards the subject, don't be surprised if that racist? question mark I was talking about earlier gets moved over to you.

 

[entremet]

I agree with the some of the sentiment behind the OP, I just don't think any of his examples prove that sentiment in the least. There are so many examples he could have chosen to make his point, but the ones he chose are pretty weak.

They've been numerous in depth studies on sentencing disparities amongst African Americans for decades, combined with lack of access to quality legal services. This is not new stuff.

 

[Timedog]

Timedog getting ripped off with dem prices.

Nah, I'm just not all about that dirt.

 

[cutmeamango]

If something happens 80% of the time does it happen 100% of the time?
If I do not accept something IS do I reject the probability of BEING entirely?

 

[MikeOfTheLivingDead]

No doubt the system has a racial bias. That said, op, nothing you did was a felony. You might as well not have a record. You might run into a problem getting a job at some point depending on the company/position, but you're hardly a menace to society.

 

[Htown]

Not sure there is any way to actually prove what OP is saying, everyone in this thread seems to be going off of anecdotal evidence.

Did I say racism doesn't exist?

If something happens 80% of the time does it happen 100% of the time?
If I do not accept something IS do I reject the probability of BEING entirely?

 

[foxtrot3d]

I live in NYC. I took the NYPD exam coming on two years in February and I will most likely be receiving the call for the academy next month. I always worry about the prospect of being an NYPD officer.

My biggest concern is stop and frisk and how it's enforced throughout the force. I'm not a stop-and-frisk type of guy. I can't do it, nor do I want to, but I have to consider the job because I don't want to miss out on the opportunity of being a detective down the line.

I mention this because I find it pertains to your story. You think you got off easily, and you did, but if I were to take this position, I'm positive I'd be pressured into stereotyping and the stop-and-frisk procedure.

Bah.

If you can't stand up for what is right then you are no different from the rest of the bad cops. Many people get this view that the bad cops are easy to spot because they are just evil individuals or frothing at the mouth racists. However, in reality they are just normal individuals and when they get pressured they fall in line instead of standing up to do what is right. Next thing you know you are part of the Blue Brotherhood and it becomes an Us v. Them mentality and you're defending a cop who shot some kid simply because he's a cop.

I'm not saying you'll be a bad cop but if you cave into pressure and go against your moral convictions to advance your career or not to cause trouble, well then you become a bad cop.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I'm more or less convinced that harsh sentencing guidelines for minor drug offences in the US exist solely as a means of institutionalising racist laws by proxy, enforced by a largely uneducated and excessively militarised police force for the benefit of maintaining the status quo.

 

[DanteFox]

He chose these examples because they're what personally happened to him.

It's... I don't really get it. He's not saying "here, finally is PROOF that the system is racist," just talking about his own experiences and how he sort of realized that he'd probably be fucked if he was black.

This isn't a particularly outlandish claim. It's not like he's talking about his experiences with UFOs and we need to find rational explanations for what he thinks he saw. It's well-understood that the justice system in America has a massive crick in its neck that makes it look at black people sideways.

I just think each one of the offenses he listed is almost laughably small, so either way it's ridiculous.

Yeah, more or less, by the H-Town Principle.

It's funny that instead of actually having a discussion on the subject at hand, you want to nitpick inane details to prove to remind everyone that we have not invented a mind reading machine, and so we cannot conclusively state that any particular instance of anything is necessarily racist.

Even if the black guy didn't have priors, you can't prove it's racist. What if there were different prosecutors?

Even if the prosecutors were the same, you can't prove it's racist. What if he was rude to the judge?

Even if he wasn't rude to the judge, you can't prove it's racist. What if...

The point isn't that that specific situation is an assured signal of inequality. Racism is almost always a question mark. But it probably is. The fact that you--instead of making any attempt to show any sort of empathy, nitpick some inane detail which will obviously incense people and derail a discussion on an already sensitive issue--is telling.

What you need to do is stop. Listen. Empathy requires that. That's what empathy is. Nitpicking some stupid little thing because you just have to be contrarian in a sensitive race thread is the opposite of empathy. If you do not show that you have empathy towards the subject, don't be surprised if that racist? question mark I was talking about earlier gets moved over to you.

Lol, that sounds pretty threatening. Regardless, that's fine. If someone wants to ignore context, intent, and logic and label me a racist because I didn't automatically get outraged and join in on an emotional circle jerk, that's unfortunate. And actually, what you accuse me of is the exact opposite of what I was doing. I was trying to have a discussion. Guess that's not welcome in this thread so I will bow to the will of the majority and leave it at that.

They've been numerous in depth studies on sentencing disparities amongst African Americans for decades, combined with lack of access to quality legal services. This is not new stuff.

Well aware.

 

[foxtrot3d]

On a side note, I've never had a chance to have a real-life conversation with a black person, let alone meeting one.

As a black man I find this weird, but then again you live in Russia so it's understandable. However, I'm still amazed at people who have never encountered people outside of their own race in their life.

 

[Onemic]

If something happens 80% of the time does it happen 100% of the time?
If I do not accept something IS do I reject the probability of BEING entirely?

It becomes problematic when all you do is talk about how there is a slight chance something might not be in threads discussing sensitive social issues, especially when that social issue is about the discrimination of a given group of people.

People are not dumb and do not need to be constantly reminded that there is a slight chance that something might not be what people suspect it is. All it does is make the party doing the contrarian speak look like assholes. (This doesn't even apply strictly to this situation, it's contrarian speak in general, it tends to stifle discussion in whatever context it's presented in)

 

[Anonumos]

I live in NYC. I took the NYPD exam coming on two years in February and I will most likely be receiving the call for the academy next month. I always worry about the prospect of being an NYPD officer.

My biggest concern is stop and frisk and how it's enforced throughout the force. I'm not a stop-and-frisk type of guy. I can't do it, nor do I want to, but I have to consider the job because I don't want to miss out on the opportunity of being a detective down the line.

I mention this because I find it pertains to your story. You think you got off easily, and you did, but if I were to take this position, I'm positive I'd be pressured into stereotyping and the stop-and-frisk procedure.

Bah.

This is exactly the kind of person that protects bad cops though. They are usually not bad guys. They know what they are doing is wrong; they just don't want to stand up for it. And so the system continues.

 

[Wallach]

I just think each one of the offenses he listed is almost laughably small, so either way it's ridiculous.

They are if you're white.

 

[Bodacious]

I'm more or less convinced that harsh sentencing guidelines for minor drug offences in the US exist solely as a means of institutionalising racist laws by proxy, enforced by a largely uneducated and excessively militarised police force for the benefit of maintaining the status quo.

I believe Rand Paul was saying the same thing a few weeks ago. Seriously.

 

[Legendary_Red]

Yes. Complete anecdotal evidence when there are plenty of statistics that back up racial prejudice in the justice system.

I haven't seen anything close to what OP is suggesting that a young white male gets a slap in the wrist for the same crime a black man would have received indictment, jail time, and a permanent mark of drug possession on his criminal record that could ruin his life.

Most of the reports I have read about racial prejudice in the justice system stem from our jury system, or how garbage our public defenders are so that our system favors those who have the money to afford a competent lawyer, which is indirectly racist to those ethnic groups who, on average, have a much lower income.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I believe Rand Paul was saying the same thing a few weeks ago. Seriously.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day!

 

[foxtrot3d]

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day!

Hehe.

Ah yes, racism.

 

[Timedog]

And actually, what you accuse me of is the exact opposite of what I was doing. I was trying to have a discussion. Guess that's not welcome in this thread so I will bow to the will of the majority and leave it at that.

You were pointing out the blatantly obvious. Yes, it is within the realm of possibility that the black guys difference in sentencing was not racist, and solely determined by circumstance. Everyone that's intelligent enough to sign up for and post on this board realizes that. Did you really feel like you needed to explain logic to an audience of five-year-olds, or was there some other reason for you to want to derail the thread and show a distinct lack of empathy for a sensitive issue?

I have no clue. Question mark.

 

[Amentallica]

This is exactly the kind of person that protects bad cops though. They are usually not bad guys. They know what they are doing is wrong; they just don't want to stand up for it. And so the system continues.

I forgot to make it clear with a bigger point to my post. When I say pressured into stereotyping and stop-and-frisk, it's not that I'm worried I'll be doing it, it's that I find that I will have a very hard time enjoying the workforce because I am not one to really do things I morally do not think is fair.

I suppose my post was pretty shitty in conveying that crucial part of my personality. :/