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[Anonumos]

I just think each one of the offenses he listed is almost laughably small, so either way it's ridiculous.

Lol, that sounds pretty threatening. Regardless, that's fine. If someone wants to ignore context, intent, and logic and label me a racist because I didn't automatically get outraged and join in on an emotional circle jerk, that's unfortunate. And actually, what you accuse me of is the exact opposite of what I was doing. I was trying to have a discussion. Guess that's not welcome in this thread so I will bow to the will of the majority and leave it at that.

Well aware.

You know what else is laughably small? Here's some:

Buying a belt

Staring at people

Harmless school pranks

Each kid either got arrested, got a FUCKING FELONY, or got choked by the police.

So yeah, excuse me if I don't find owning drugs or stealing shit "laughably small"

Jesus fucking christ

 

[entremet]

I haven't seen anything close to what OP is suggesting that a young white male gets a slap in the wrist for the same crime a black man would have received indictment, jail time, and a permanent mark of drug possession on his criminal record that could ruin his life.

Most of the reports I have read about racial prejudice in the justice system stem from our jury system, or how garbage our public defenders are so that our system favors those who have the money to afford a competent lawyer, which is indirectly racist to those ethnic groups who, on average, have a much lower income.

Rockefeller drug laws were a clear, empirical example as well.

 

[MikeOfTheLivingDead]

I'm more or less convinced that harsh sentencing guidelines for minor drug offences in the US exist solely as a means of institutionalising racist laws by proxy, enforced by a largely uneducated and excessively militarised police force for the benefit of maintaining the status quo.

The whole system is fucked and it really has little to do with race once it gets to the courts. The entire legal system is really all about collecting money for the government and filling the pockets of lawyers and companies that run the prisons; there is no justice for anyone unless you can afford to buy it. It's sickening, and minorities, particularly young black men get shafted worse than anyone because of the institutionalized racism in society, long before the get into trouble with the police. By the time you are in court it doesn't matter. The courts aren't fair for anyone. There is no getting a fair trial. The cops police report is unimpeachable. You get railroaded into making a plea to a lesser charge to avoid going to trial and getting a harsher sentence. You pay your fine, you pay extra to get sent to a cushier prison if you can afford it, and the government guarantees the companies that run the prisons a minimum population. It's fucking insanity. As an American you are more likely to do time in prison than any other civilized country on earth, regardless of your skin color, and if you are black and male you can multiply that possibility by a factor of six.

 

[cutmeamango]

It becomes problematic when all you do is talk about how there is a slight chance something might not be in threads discussing sensitive social issues, especially when that social issue is about the discrimination of a given group of people.

People are not dumb and do not need to be constantly reminded that there is a slight chance that something might not be what people suspect it is. All it does is make the party doing the contrarian speak look like assholes. (This doesn't even apply strictly to this situation, it's contrarian speak in general, it tends to stifle discussion in whatever context it's presented in)

So there's no discussion to begin with, it is an accepted discourse being validated by being the accepted discourse. I know it seems wasted or pointless effort to always have to bring data, studies, and what not to present the other person "see, this is why the likehood of being motivated by x is high, and taken as the primary hypothesis, we know we do not have further evidence or context to determine with certainty..." and so on, but that is education.
If you assume that any 'contrarian' is ill intended, why answer in the first place as if you were trying to explain anything?

And this has not happened here, but the other topic touches it, same with the questions of "why is it racist?", it is fastly assumed as a dishonest, malicious, confrontative question, and it is of no surprise that the answers come as hastly, failing to address the question.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

OP we all know the system is rigged. Props to you for at least acknowledging your white privilege.

 

[Onemic]

So there's no discussion to begin with, it is an accepted discourse being validated by being the accepted discourse. I know it seems wasted or pointless effort to always have to bring data, studies, and what not to present the other person "see, this is why the likehood of being motivated by x is high, and taken as the primary hypothesis, we know we do not have further evidence or context to determine with certainty..." and so on, but that is education.
If you assume that any 'contrarian' is ill intended, why answer in the first place as if you were trying to explain anything?

And this has not happened here, but the other topic touches it, same with the questions of "why is it racist?", it is fastly assumed as a dishonest, malicious, confrontative question, and it is of no surprise that the answers come as hastly, failing to address the question.

It's usually because those types of comments, especially within discussions pertaining to discrimination tend to be from people that are willfully ignorant or have some type of hidden agenda when decalring a contrarian statement or even a statement such as, 'why is x racist/sexist/etc' Most people that have been in these threads have become so familiar with that paticular strategy of song and dance that when another person does it within the same context, it becomes natural to automatically assume that person is positng it with some type of ill or alternate intent.

 

[Mesousa]

Sounds more like you are really lucky regardless of your race. Remember, the media has a narrative to sell. The black faces they show you on tv to scare you into giving them ratings are not the people committing most of the crimes.

 

[Tenrius]

As a black man I find this weird, but then again you live in Russia so it's understandable. However, I'm still amazed at people who have never encountered people outside of their own race in their life.

One of my friends is Asian, actually, so that's not entirely true lol. It's true that I didn't meet any people of different race until I went to college though, which is the first 17 years of my life. Of course, I sometimes see black people, like on the street (there are always some college students from Africa in my hometown) or when travelling abroad, but I've just never gotten into a social situation with one.

 

[Konka]

I'll add this. I was also caught smoking weed in my dorms both freshman and sophomore year. So lets add it up.

1.)Underage
2.)Weed in dorm
3.)Weed in dorm
4.)Possession of Marijuana
5.)Reckless endangerment
6.)Theft
7.)Transporting stolen goods.

Result = nothing. Job prospects not affected at all.

 

[CornBurrito]

Also what time your trial is held can effect the result. Better fucking hope the judge hands down his sentence AFTER lunch. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/n...how-food-breaks-sway-the-decisions-of-judges/
http://www.economist.com/node/18557594

 

[MikeOfTheLivingDead]

I'll add this. I was also caught smoking weed in my dorms both freshman and sophomore year. So lets add it up.

1.)Underage
2.)Weed in dorm
3.)Weed in dorm
4.)Possession of Marijuana
5.)Reckless endangerment
6.)Theft
7.)Transporting stolen goods.

Result = nothing. Job prospects not affected at all.

Again, they aren't felonies, and your job prospects have definitely been effected, you just haven't run into it yet.

 

[DigitalOp]

I'll add this. I was also caught smoking weed in my dorms both freshman and sophomore year. So lets add it up.

1.)Underage
2.)Weed in dorm
3.)Weed in dorm
4.)Possession of Marijuana
5.)Reckless endangerment
6.)Theft
7.)Transporting stolen goods.

Result = nothing. Job prospects not affected at all.

That's great OP, but now it sounds like your boasting.

 

[Konka]

Again, they aren't felonies, and your job prospects have definitely been effected, you just haven't run into it yet.

No, they haven't. All of them have been expunged. I guess they would cause an issue if I way applying for a job that requires security clearance but I'm not.

That's great OP, but now it sounds like your boasting.

Not boasting, just trying to point out how ridiculous it is.

 

[way more]

When I got a felony my dad sat me down and said "Son, from now on life is going to sort of be like you are black. People will give you less opportunities and you will have to work harder to prove yourself." I've had my share of background checks and been able to rent apartments, attend universities and get jobs at places. Maybe that's just Colorado being cool towards a drug charge, I don't know.

 

[Timedog]

Again, they aren't felonies, and your job prospects have definitely been effected, you just haven't run into it yet.

A half ounce of weed could potentially be very, very serious depending on where it happened and when it happened.

 

[Konka]

A half ounce of weed could potentially be very, very serious depending on where it happened and when it happened.

Exactly. It happened September 2008 and all that happened was I had a conversation with the cops if they were watching the presidential debates. They literally told me to have a great day and that I'd probably get a letter in the mail but not to worry too much about it.....

 

[Mr. Blonde]

it's absurd that mana was banned.

while were using anecdotal evidence, my friend (a white guy, in the south), got a year of probation and a four figure fine for having less than 3 grams of weed, and later spent several months in jail for getting a dui and thus having multiple offenses. he wasnt as lucky as the op.

 

[royalan]

it's absurd that mana was banned.

while were using anecdotal evidence, my friend (a white guy, in the south), got a year of probation and a four figure fine for having less than 3 grams of weed, and later spent several months in jail for getting a dui and thus having multiple offenses. he wasnt as lucky as the op.

...so, is your point that racism doesn't exist?

People are sharing anecdotes in this thread because a lot of them are fortified with what we statistically know the be the case.

 

[Arde5643]

it's absurd that mana was banned.

while were using anecdotal evidence, my friend (a white guy, in the south), got a year of probation and a four figure fine for having less than 3 grams of weed, and later spent several months in jail for getting a dui and thus having multiple offenses. he wasnt as lucky as the op.

"Woooo, my personal anecdote totally nullifies years and years of statistical evidence of institutional racism."

 

[staticneuron]

Racism is weird. Everybody knows it totally exists, but when you look at any specific situation, racism is never involved. You can know that it exists, but when you look for it, it turns into something else.

Racism is quantum locked. It doesn't exist when it's being observed. The moment it is seen by any living creature, it freezes into a coincidence.

It is brilliant because it happens so often.

"Woooo, my personal anecdote totally nullifies years and years of statistical evidence of institutional racism."

But of course, isn't that the grading scale?

Thankfully I have never been in trouble with the law but know many people who have and happen to be in the courthouse to witness some things. Without question, minorities get the book thrown at them hard. But also, it doesn't matter what race you are, if you act like an idiot in court where I am from, the judge is going to step on you.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

Look, I think it's clear to everyone on here that institutional racism exists. However, some of us just want to call a spade a spade. Noone here can deny that minorities have it worse than other people. Hell, I'm a minority and I know how that jazz works. That being said, noone wants assumptions of racism around when it's not there. It devalues real racism.

What people are replying to is the second half of the second point. You can remove it and the OP is still equally as valid (and I would argue moreso). Who cares about the observation that the black man was going to trial? If all else were equal, we could call BS on it because that's racism. However, we don't know that all else is equal. Therefore we can't make any assumption about there perhaps being any racial bias (which is implied with its inclusion in a "Racial punishment" thread).

As it stands, the rest of the OP is fine. We don't know if the OP got off easy because he was white, but we do know that he got off easy. We also know that because of his race he was more likely to do so. Those are all facts that noone can deny.

 

[Seanspeed]

I wish I had your luck, OP. I did not get away with things like that and it has most definitely affected my ability to get certain jobs.

Look, I think it's clear to everyone on here that institutional racism exists. However, some of us just want to call a spade a spade. Noone here can deny that minorities have it worse than other people. Hell, I'm a minority and I know how that jazz works. That being said, noone wants assumptions of racism around when it's not there. It devalues real racism.

What people are replying to is the second half of the second point. You can remove it and the OP is still equally as valid (and I would argue moreso). Who cares about the observation that the black man was going to trial? If all else were equal, we could call BS on it because that's racism. However, we don't know that all else is equal. Therefore we can't make any assumption about there perhaps being any racial bias (which is implied with its inclusion in a "Racial punishment" thread).

As it stands, the rest of the OP is fine. We don't know if the OP got off easy because he was white, but we do know that he got off easy. We also know that because of his race he was more likely to do so. Those are all facts that noone can deny.

Well said.

 

[royalan]

Look, I think it's clear to everyone on here that institutional racism exists. However, some of us just want to call a spade a spade. Noone here can deny that minorities have it worse than other people. Hell, I'm a minority and I know how that jazz works. That being said, noone wants assumptions of racism around when it's not there. It devalues real racism.

What people are replying to is the second half of the second point. You can remove it and the OP is still equally as valid (and I would argue moreso). Who cares about the observation that the black man was going to trial? If all else were equal, we could call BS on it because that's racism. However, we don't know that all else is equal. Therefore we can't make any assumption about there perhaps being any racial bias (which is implied with its inclusion in a "Racial punishment" thread).

As it stands, the rest of the OP is fine. We don't know if the OP got off easy because he was white, but we do know that he got off easy. We also know that because of his race he was more likely to do so. Those are all facts that noone can deny.

But the point everyone else is making is that none of this really matters. Everyone already knows that there's a chance the black guy might have had other factors contribute to his sentencing, but that wasn't the lesson to take away from the OPs post. It's really a minor bullet-point. That there exists a systematic bias against minorities in our legal system that can be statistically demonstrated, that's the overall point. The OP's just pulling together a series of experiences that happened to him as a means to demonstrate this truth. And getting sidetracked by "Well, OP, this particular situation might not have been racism" really is nitpicking. It's distracting from the overall point being made.

We have a similar problem on GAF whenever women's rights or feminism is being discussed. Nobody seems to have a problem admitted that gender inequality is a real thing that exists on a larger, systematic scale, but any attempt to dissect it on a case-by-case basis results in "well, this isn't an example of gender inequality...and neither is this...and neither is this...." It's like everybody believes that gender inequality exists, while at the same time trying to believe that it doesn't. Same deal here. And before you know it the thread has devolved into petty squabbles over minor details instead of the main point of discussion. Missing the forest for the trees, as it were.

 

[YoungHav]

Thank you OP. A white person that gets it is a relief. There are far too few of you and this is why things never change.

 

[Jeels]

You REALLY don't understand why? Serious?

Racism? I'm saying in any context, it doesn't make sense that a black man and a white man with the same crime would get such different convictions that the white man will walk away pretty much free while the black man's life is pretty much ruined forever. I'm saying I literally can't comprehend it.

 

[The Adder]

I managed to get myself in trouble with the law quite a few times while I was in college and I managed to get out of all of it. I am white and I was a college student when all of this happened.

1.) I got an underage at 19. This one I wouldn't imagine would cause much for anyone, I was 19 and got an underage. I was offered the opportunity to do 30 hours of community service and it was dropped.

2.) Possession of Marijuana. This is a good one. I got caught buying half an ounce of weed and the officers detained me for a few minutes and then let me walk home telling me I'd get a letter in the mail. My state has no decriminalized marijuana. I went to my preliminary hearing and they dropped the possession charge for summary disorderly conduct. $130 fine and I was done.
-There was a black man at the same hearing as me with the same charge who was told it would be brought to trial. I don't know what happened to him later.

3.) Reckless endangerment. I got myself into a situation while drunk that required me to call 911 to help me. I appeared at the hearing and it was summary trespassing. $100 and I was free.

4.) Theft & Transport of stolen goods. I worked for a company and took an old laptop that was going to be trashed and sold it on craigslist. I had no lawyer and the DA told me I needed to get one. Two weeks later the DA calls me and tells me they are putting me into a deferment program. I go onto the program and just need to pay restitution and update the court on my current situation. This ends in May 2012 and all charges against me are dropped.


I am now older and realize how much trouble I put myself into. Shockingly, none of these things have affected my ability to get a job or live a good life. The trespassing and disorderly conduct charge have been expunged. All of these charges have had literally no effect on my professional life.

My point is that I don't understand how I got off so easily. I hear news stories every day here of people doing the same thing and they are often black and charged to the full extent of the law. I was basically given slaps on the wrist over and over.

Law enforcement in this country is ridiculously unequal.

Relevant

 

[siddx]

It's a class thing as much as race thing. When I lived in northern Maine where white people make up 99% of the population, young poor white kids had the book thrown at them for first offences, while anyone with money would be in the paper weekly for a multitude of crimes without ever getting anything worse than a fine. The law looks for scapegoats to make examples of. Whether it's a minority or a white guy living in a trailer. The law will find someone to regard as not worth the benefit of doubt or empathy and make them the "reason" for all the bad shit going on.

 

[KingK]

Racism is weird. Everybody knows it totally exists, but when you look at any specific situation, racism is never involved. You can know that it exists, but when you look for it, it turns into something else.

Racism is quantum locked. It doesn't exist when it's being observed. The moment it is seen by any living creature, it freezes into a coincidence.

This is fucking perfect lol.

Again, they aren't felonies, and your job prospects have definitely been effected, you just haven't run into it yet.

uhh, half an ounce of weed is a very serious offense in most of the country. I'm in Indiana, and two years ago one of my best friends was pulled over and had one joint in his car. He could have gone to jail if they threw the book at him, instead he just got a $1,000 fine and 18 months probation without being able to leave the county.

 

[The Adder]

It's a class thing as much as race thing.

No. It is not.

 

[siddx]

No. It is not.

Shockingly, your well thought out and comprehensive rebuttal has not changed my mind. Surprising I know. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, and I certainly concede that my point is debatable. However as I noted, I have witnessed the same behaviour shown towards minorities also shown towards "low class" white people when there were no minorities to mistreat. The assumption of auto guilt and unfair treatment, in my opinion, begins with the false stereotype that minorities are of a lower class because they are uneducated and poor. That same stereotype is applied to poor white people in areas where minorities are not in abundance. I also saw it growing up in other countries with low minority populations. The fear mongering, stereotyping, and mistreatment was directed at the poor Caucasians in these countries. I'm not saying racism is not a factor. It is to a large degree. But rather, the racism takes the form of assuming that minorities are low class and that is why they are dangerous and deserve harsher treatment.

 

[The Adder]

Shockingly, your well thought out and comprehensive rebuttal.

That wasn't my rebuttal, you can view the rebuttal in the post preceding yours by two wherein there is a link with actual facts and not anecdotal observations.

 

[YoungHav]

can someone explain what show that John Oliver quantum photo being quoted is from?

 

[jim-jam bongs]

can someone explain what show that John Oliver quantum photo being quoted is from?

So all Englishmen look the same to you?

 

[Princess Carl]

Racism is weird. Everybody knows it totally exists, but when you look at any specific situation, racism is never involved. You can know that it exists, but when you look for it, it turns into something else.

Racism is quantum locked. It doesn't exist when it's being observed. The moment it is seen by any living creature, it freezes into a coincidence.

How frighteningly accurate.

 

[Two Words]

What if the black man had a history and that's the reason for going to trial?

You mean like the OP?