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[sflufan]

This entire crisis between China and India has been operating below the radar while the world has had its attention diverted by everything else.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ion-remove-troops-build-up-road-a7880521.html

 

[freeofgreed]

Yeah I've been following this a bit these past few weeks. If this does happen it'll be interesting to see 2 great powers engage in direct warfare with each other.

 

[JordanN]

Yeah I've been following this a bit these past few weeks. If this does happen it'll be interesting to see 2 great powers engage in direct warfare with each other.

By "interesting", you mean World War 3?

And both India and China got nukes.

 

[Mahonay]

This sounds extremely bad.

 

[freeofgreed]

By "interesting", you mean World War 3?

And both India and China got nukes.

I highly doubt "WW3" will happen. They both have nukes but neither will use them in a situation like this. At most what will happen is exactly what China says "limited warfare".

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

By "interesting", you mean World War 3?

And both India and China got nukes.

They both have a No First Use policy.

 

[ebullientprism]

It is kinda getting worrying. India right now is going through a hyper patriotism wave manufactured by an extreme right wing party in power to distract from the economic mess and sectarian violence that is happening and almost every television channel is out for blood. The TV media wants a war so bad you can almost taste it every time you switch to a news channel.

All the ingredients are there to make a hell of a mess. Fun times. :/

 

[kiunchbb]

Is there even a thing as limited war? Once there's blood is their hand it is not something you can stop. Other country will also take advantage of this opportunities.

I guess China really want to test its military since it never had a chance to fight a battle with it.

 

[Bulzeeb]

I highly doubt "WW3" will happen. They both have nukes but neither will use them in a situation like this. At most what will happen is exactly what China says "limited warfare".

I guess that might be the name for the next CoD, anyways, to be honnest this is the first time I hear about this and it is really worrisome, can somebody point me in a more complete status of this or should I go by news sites looking for the issue?

 

[Mr. X]

It is kinda getting worrying. India right now is going through a hyper patriotism wave manufactured by an extreme right wing party in power to distract from the economic mess and sectarian violence that is happening and almost every television channel is out for blood. The TV media wants a war so bad you can almost taste it every time you switch to a news channel.

All the ingredients are there to make a hell of a mess. Fun times. :/

Did Russia get involved with the right? I'm curious.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

oh god, a shitty independent article based off shitty content aggregation that eliminates context, amplifies fears and is designed to go viral.

People need to stop pretending that Independent and other sites like the Hill are anything other than daily mail level trash at this point

 

[Snwaters]

I highly doubt "WW3" will happen. They both have nukes but neither will use them in a situation like this. At most what will happen is exactly what China says "limited warfare".

While I agree that nukes being used is probably extremely unlikely, the very nature of warfare makes it very easy for it to slip out of control. This would be a very dangerous gambit.

 

[sflufan]

Did Russia get involved with the right? I'm curious.

When the term "right-wing" is used within the context of India, I think it's best to think of "Hindu nationalist/supremacist" instead.

 

[ebullientprism]

Did Russia get involved with the right? I'm curious.

I doubt it. The right wins in India purely based on religion and ethnicity dressed in "economic reforms". Or what sflufan says.

Ironically enough the Chinese look like they might be interested in colluding with the left. The leader of the opposition recently had a secret meeting with the Chinese ambassador that he (whoops!) "forgot" to tell anyone about.

oh god, a shitty independent article based off shitty content aggregation that eliminates context, amplifies fears and is designed to go viral.

People need to stop pretending that Independent and other sites like the Hill are anything other than daily mail level trash at this point

It is not that far fetched. This is a HUGE deal right now here (in India).

 

[Nirolak]

I'm not sure how some of you would have survived living during the Cold War when nuclear powers frequently battled each other in various countries.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I guess that might be the name for the next CoD, anyways, to be honnest this is the first time I hear about this and it is really worrisome, can somebody point me in a more complete status of this or should I go by news sites looking for the issue?

The Diplomat is good for Asia stuff (lots of good reporting on North Korea too).

Here's an article on the "political geography" of the conflict.
http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/the-political-geography-of-the-india-china-crisis-at-doklam/

Its written by actual scholars of the region rather than some social media intern

 

[Large Professor]

China likes to threaten with war via the Global Times. Doesn't mean they are really prepared to.

 

[freeofgreed]

While I agree that nukes being used is probably extremely unlikely, the very nature of warfare makes it very easy for it to slip out of control. This would be a very dangerous gambit.

Sure absolutely. But I don't think either side really wants all out war. Like the article says, this region has been contested for decades and no shots have been fired in over 50 years. Also this isn't even really a border dispute between India and China. It's one between China and Bhutan.

 

[Sirpopopop]

Not sure the Bhutanese would consider it "interesting" at all. It is their territory being violated after all.

 

[Gabriel_Logan]

Don't they not even have weapons and just chest bump each other at the border?

 

[Mahonay]

I'm not sure how some of you would have survived living during the Cold War when nuclear powers frequently battled each other in various countries.

I would have been fine...24 hours a day inside my bunker.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I'm not sure how some of you would have survived living during the Cold War when nuclear powers frequently battled each other in various countries.

TBH, we probably should have been far more scared than we were. One of the closest the world has come came to actually using nukes, was in a proxy conflict.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/06/opinion/the-last-nuclear-moment.html

 

[sflufan]

The Diplomat is good for Asia stuff (lots of good reporting on North Korea too).

Here's an article on the "political geography" of the conflict.
http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/the-political-geography-of-the-india-china-crisis-at-doklam/

Its written by actual scholars of the region rather than some social media intern

Ah - that's fantastic! Thank you very much!

 

[PeskyToaster]

Is there even a thing as limited war? Once there's blood is their hand it is not something you can stop. Other country will also take advantage of this opportunities.

I guess China really want to test its military since it never had a chance to fight a battle with it.

Yes. I think limited war is just normal war before total war was a thing. Not every war is a no holds barred contest towards unconditional surrender.

 

[JordanN]

I'm not sure how some of you would have survived living during the Cold War when nuclear powers frequently battled each other in various countries.

Was there a war where the US fought Soviet Soldiers directly?

The likes of Vietnam, Afghanistan,Congo etc were fought through proxies but I don't recall direct confrontations between the two.

The closest was the Cuban missile crisis but that WAS going to cause WW3.

 

[Mahonay]

The Diplomat is good for Asia stuff (lots of good reporting on North Korea too).

Here's an article on the "political geography" of the conflict.
http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/the-political-geography-of-the-india-china-crisis-at-doklam/

Its written by actual scholars of the region rather than some social media intern

Thanks for the link.

 

[MarkMclovin]

By "interesting", you mean World War 3?

And both India and China got nukes.

You do realise you can't just use a nuke and get away with it.

 

[sflufan]

TBH, we probably should have been far more scared than we were. One of the closest the world has come came to actually using nukes, was in a proxy conflict.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/06/opinion/the-last-nuclear-moment.html

In addition to the 1973 Arab-Israeli War, the use of nuclear of weapons was a real possibility during the 1962 Sino-Indian War (the US was very much militarily supporting India) and the 1969 Sino-Soviet conflict (the Soviet leadership very much was in favor of using nukes if necessary).

 

[Heroman]

I highly doubt "WW3" will happen. They both have nukes but neither will use them in a situation like this. At most what will happen is exactly what China says "limited warfare".

Limited warfare is a oxymoron.

 

[freeofgreed]

Limited warfare is a oxymoron.

Limited warfare as opposed to all out warfare where both countries are throwing everything at each other. Skirmishes I could definitely see happening.

 

[JordanN]

You do realise you can't just use a nuke and get away with it.

Couldn't resist.

 

[nampad]

Read about it some time ago in the German Spiegel and wasn't surprised to hear about Chinese warmongering at their border again. Is there even a neighbor state with whom they are not having a border conflict with?

Poor Bhutan will be fucked because I don't think India will really go to war about this for them.

 

[PeskyToaster]

Limited warfare is a oxymoron.

No it's not. They are establishing that nukes are not on the table.


What's interesting about the political makeup of current Asia is that it is somewhat reminiscent of Europe pre-NATO. Nearly all of Europe's major powers are united under one military body which makes war between these powers extremely unlikely. While they aren't operating as one they are far more connected to each other than they ever have been. A significant turn from the status quo of Europe since maybe the Dark Ages. Asia at this moment has no such uniting force and also has several of the world's largest forces,nuclear armed, and many ongoing disputes. I don't think people today are very used to the sparring of rival, somewhat equivalent nations.

 

[sflufan]

Read about it some time ago in the German Spiegel and wasn't surprised to hear about Chinese warmongering at their border again. Is there even a neighbor state with whom they are not having a border conflict with?

I don't think they have any with their good buddy Pakistan!

Edit: And it appears that there is no border dispute with Myanmar either.

 

[Lonely1]

Read about it some time ago in the German Spiegel and wasn't surprised to hear about Chinese warmongering at their border again. Is there even a neighbor state with whom they are not having a border conflict with?

Poor Bhutan will be fucked because I don't think India will really go to war about this for them.

Best Korea?

 

[snap]

Article kinda sucks. Doesn't even show a map of the region, just attempts to describe it vaguely. It also mentions an Indian magazine cover that got Chinese social media in an uproar, but doesn't show what it is, just describes it somewhat.

 

[WedgeX]

If only there were a large, nuclear-holding, superpower with a robust diplomatic corps and engaged executive branch interested in helping to avert a potential war involving two billion people.

If only such a nation existed.

 

[nampad]

I don't think they have any with their good buddy Pakistan!

Edit: And it appears that there is no border dispute with Myanmar either.

No worries, they will find something sooner or later.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Article kinda sucks. Doesn't even show a map of the region, just attempts to describe it vaguely. It also mentions an Indian magazine cover that got Chinese social media in an uproar, but doesn't show what it is, just describes it somewhat.

This is the Independent' M.O.

They used to be a decent newspaper but have been hallowed out to a digital only tabloid which does very little original reporting and sensationalizes everything

 

[Auto_aim1]

I don't think they have any with their good buddy Pakistan!

That's because they are secretly colonising Pakistan through investments. They are even building stuff in PoK which is a disputed land.

 

[BlackLagoon]

Poor Bhutan will be fucked because I don't think India will really go to war about this for them.

India is very much invested in this, as the disputed area would give China very advantageous position from which to block India's direct land access to its north-eastern territories should a major conflict between them break out.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

It is kinda getting worrying. India right now is going through a hyper patriotism wave manufactured by an extreme right wing party in power to distract from the economic mess and sectarian violence that is happening and almost every television channel is out for blood. The TV media wants a war so bad you can almost taste it every time you switch to a news channel.

All the ingredients are there to make a hell of a mess. Fun times. :/

Err...what economic mess?

As for the China situation, it will get resolved. India already had talks with China on it.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...spite-angry-rhetoric/articleshow/59945037.cms

 

[parmanu]

It is kinda getting worrying. India right now is going through a hyper patriotism wave manufactured by an extreme right wing party in power to distract from the economic mess and sectarian violence that is happening and almost every television channel is out for blood. The TV media wants a war so bad you can almost taste it every time you switch to a news channel.

All the ingredients are there to make a hell of a mess. Fun times. :/

If anything, Indian government's response has been measured to this crisis. Compare that to Chinese govt and diplomat's threatening statements.

 

[Kyzer]

Trump is probably against intervention which actually might be a useful thing in this scenario. Then we might have had a ww3 scenario in our hands.

Err...what economic mess?

As for the China situation, it will get resolved. India already had talks with China on it.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...spite-angry-rhetoric/articleshow/59945037.cms

Ok but isnt china basically telling india to leave the area and THEN theyll consider talks? Which is basically not talks and more of a gtfo

 

[Bedameister]

Didn't they already do this in the 60s?

 

[sflufan]

Didn't they already do this in the 60s?

Yes, there was a Sino-Indian conflict in 1962.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War

 

[Funky Papa]

I'm not sure how some of you would have survived living during the Cold War when nuclear powers frequently battled each other in various countries.

In all fairness, people were building fallout shelters in their backyards and duck and cover was a thing back in those days, so there's that.

 

[Shogun413]

Didn't they already do this in the 60s?

Yes and China kicked India's ass. Probably why India is smarting for a new war because they are still sore about that loss. Not sure why China is the aggressor here when they are just building a road. Not exactly moving troops in like what India did.

 

[kittoo]

LOL at people saying 'India has an economic mess and hence wants war" and what not.
First, what economic mess? You mean either the fastest or second fastest growing major economy in the world? The one with highest FII? The one which just last year became 7th biggest economy in the world (nominal) and is the third biggest (PPP)?

And no India isnt going in 'hyper-nationalism' mode or anything. China has continuously pushed both India and other countries by intruding inside their borders, making infrastructure in disputed areas and what not. Only this time they have a big enough country which is also standing up for itself and not backing down.

Its actually almost funny seeing China not having any response to India in the matter. They thought India would back down like always, except it didnt and has no intention of doing so. Chinese know that they simply cant win a war in that theatre with India. India has immense advantages, both numerical and natural, in this theatre. Now China is contorting itself, promising fire and brimstone when they dont have shit. Just last week China sent a 15 page document to India, demanding all kinds of stuff and promising all kinds of retribution, to which India's one liner reply was basically- 'fuck off'.

 

[kittoo]

Yes and China kicked India's ass. Probably why India is smarting for a new war because they are still sore about that loss. Not sure why China is the aggressor here when they are just building a road. Not exactly moving troops in like what India did.

The road is in the territory which Bhutan considers itself (and according to Bhutan, was already settled). Remove the bias and see how, at the least, this is classic aggression. And who do you think was accompanying the guys building the roads? Peace doves? No, for your information, soldiers were also there. Bhutan asked for India's help and India responded.
yeah, only building road in territory which doesn't belong to me. No aggression at all. What astute logic!

Yes, there was a Sino-Indian conflict in 1962.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War

And 1967 (though not even close to as big as 1962)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathu_La_and_Cho_La_clashes