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[snap]

I will tell you what, Kojima wouldn't write a scenario so stupid.

I find it more likely that America will step into any conflict involving North Korea and an ally (even a tenuous one, like India) than not.

That is, of course, if China and North Korea get dragged in--China, I could see if they see an opportunity to gain territory in India, but would it be worth the risk and sacrifice for that? If China enters the conflict North Korea might do something but who knows.

China isn't going to do shit. Their army is extremely inexperienced with actual battle. They'd get rekt by India in a battle.

They won the last war against India.

 

[Noirulus]

They won the last war against India.

Yeah, where India was quite unprepared to hold the land they felt they had a claim on. Currently, they've established themselves in the region that China is trying to push into.

 

[Jackpot]

Edit: My remark was specifically about national anthem being played in theatre, not whether it was always a law...and your response was to the former otherwise why would you bring up that you've never seen it happen once in past 20 years.

Also your tone is honestly disgusting, the first word of your first response ever to me is "bullshit" and you call me ignorant in the same post without fact checking. Shame on you!

lol, you deliberately tried to play down the FT article covering it being made LAW that people have to stand for the national anthem in cinema's by claiming:

I'm assuming these changes are what he's talking about:

Last month India’s Supreme Court ordered all movie theatres to play the national anthem before every film, with an image of the national flag.

Meh...none of those are new.

This is the fascistic shit you're defending:

India’s supreme court has ordered cinemas across the country to play the national anthem before film screenings to encourage citizens to “feel this is my country and this is my motherland”.

Too much disrespect of national symbols had been indulged in the name of “individually perceived notions of freedom”, it added.

The anthem, Jana Gana Mana, was last ordered to be played in cinemas across India after the country’s 1962 war with China, but its strains were largely ignored by most moviegoers, and the practice was eventually discontinued.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-cinemas-to-play-national-anthem-before-films

Indian filmgoers arrested for refusing to stand during national anthem

Twelve people have been arrested at an international film festival in India for not standing while the national anthem was played.

The arrests follow a ruling by India's Supreme Court last month which said the anthem must be played and national flag shown before every film screening in the country, and that audiences must stand.

On Sunday, eight people were beaten by right-wing activists for not standing while the national anthem was being played at a cinema in the southern city of Chennai, police said.

They were later charged for allegedly showing disrespect to the national anthem.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-national-anthem-kerala-capital-a7474521.html

Take your disgusting nationalistic chest-beating elsewhere.

 

[Shogun413]

China isn't going to do shit. Their army is extremely inexperienced with actual battle. They'd get rekt by India.

You should probably not post about something you know nothing about. The PLA was able to fight America to a stalemate in Korea even with technology that was decades behind and no air force. China probably has the third most capable military in the world behind US and Russia.

 

[Sunster]

it's Warfare Lite

 

[snap]

You should probably not post about something you know nothing about. The PLA was able to fight America to a stalemate in Korea even with technology that was decades behind and no air force. China probably has the third most capable military in the world behind US and Russia.

My (admittedly limited) understanding was that the stalemate was mostly driven by China committing quite a large force and Truman not wishing to begin a massive ground war in China.

MacArthur acting like a renegade and pushing for full-on conflict is what ended the war in that state--if he had stopped at Pyongyang the world would be a far different place than it is today.

Then again, you've been pretty pro-China in this thread, so maybe my understanding isn't as limited as I'm putting on.

 

[Shogun413]

My (admittedly limited) understanding was that the stalemate was mostly driven by China committing quite a large force and Truman not wishing to begin a massive ground war in China.

MacArthur acting like a renegade and pushing for full-on conflict is what ended the war in that state--if he had stopped at Pyongyang the world would be a far different place than it is today.

Then again, you've been pretty pro-China in this thread, so maybe my understanding isn't as limited as I'm putting on.

Well MacArthur's version of going renegade was to recommend using nuclear weapons on China, which would obviously have been a war crime and dramatically escalated the conflict. A massive ground war would have been a non-starter for the US because it would have been worse than entering Japan in WWII. But China did indeed pay more with lives lost than the US, but that is perfectly understandable given the military capabilities at the time. What I was refuting was the poster that suggested China would get "rekt'd" by India, which is ridiculous.

I may sound pro-China because I am a Chinese American who was born in China. So I have a different perspective on these issues. I understand why the US and others may be very critical of China's actions but I just try to present a different viewpoint. I am actually much more critical of China than most Chinese people I know. Chinese people are just very nationalistic in nature, which is fueled by the state media obviously.

 

[snap]

Well MacArthur's version of going renegade was to recommend using nuclear weapons on China, which would obviously have been a war crime and dramatically escalated the conflict. A massive ground war would have been a non-starter for the US because it would have been worse than entering Japan in WWII. But China did indeed pay more with lives lost than the US, but that is perfectly understandable given the military capabilities at the time. What I was refuting was the poster that suggested China would get "rekt'd" by India, which is ridiculous.

It didn't have to do with nukes, it was the fact he openly criticized the President, sabotaged Truman's plans to negotiate a peace with China, and assured US allies who were afraid of the US re-positioning focus away from Europe and towards Asia that the US was committed to a ground war in China.

Edit: In fact as outlined at the link above (if you scroll up a bit), MacArthur was firmly against using nuclear weapons as far as anyone can tell. He testified in front of Congress that he never recommended them, and a decade later when Truman claimed MacArthur had, MacArthur contested the claim and Truman backed down.

 

[Gabriel_Logan]

So... you think United States will go to war for India?

No but the US and Europe would be glad to sell them weapons to prolong any conflict.

 

[Oriel]

I'm not sure how some of you would have survived living during the Cold War when nuclear powers frequently battled each other in various countries.

Exactly. People need to stop assuming the worst over regional tensions. Just as there won't be any war on the Korean peninsula nothing will happen between India and China, barring perhaps limited skirmishes between the two sides. Which incidentally happens fairly frequently between Indian and Pakistani forces. I don't recall any nukes hitting New Delhi and Islamabad. Calm down folks.

 

[IndoAssassin]

If China really has the balls it thinks it does how about pushing into Russian territory as they claim some of that land to be theirs as well.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

You should probably not post about something you know nothing about. The PLA was able to fight America to a stalemate in Korea even with technology that was decades behind and no air force. China probably has the third most capable military in the world behind US and Russia.

While I agree that the poster you're quoting has a very questionable assessment, it's also not really the case that performance in the Korean war has any connection to modern warfare or the present state of either the Chinese or Indian armed forces.

 

[Shogun413]

It didn't have to do with nukes, it was the fact he openly criticized the President, sabotaged Truman's plans to negotiate a peace with China, and assured US allies who were afraid of the US re-positioning focus away from Europe and towards Asia that the US was committed to a ground war in China.

Edit: In fact as outlined at the link above (if you scroll up a bit), MacArthur was firmly against using nuclear weapons as far as anyone can tell. He testified in front of Congress that he never recommended them, and a decade later when Truman claimed MacArthur had, MacArthur contested the claim and Truman backed down.

From the same Wikipedia page:

In April 1951, the Joint Chiefs of Staff drafted orders for MacArthur authorizing nuclear attacks on Manchuria and the Shantung Peninsula if the Chinese launched airstrikes originating from there against his forces.[316] The next day Truman met with the chairman of the United States Atomic Energy Commission, Gordon Dean,[317] and arranged for the transfer of nine Mark 4 nuclear bombs to military control.[318] Dean was apprehensive about delegating the decision on how they should be used to MacArthur, who lacked expert technical knowledge of the weapons and their effects.[319] The Joint Chiefs were not entirely comfortable about giving them to MacArthur either, for fear that he might prematurely carry out his orders.[316] Instead, they decided that the nuclear strike force would report to the Strategic Air Command.[320]

I don't think it's as clear cut as you make it out to be. It was obvious that MacArthur was relieved of command by Truman by insubordination as you said, but I don't think Truman trusted him not to escalate the conflict. There are interviews where MacArthur said he wanted to destroy all Communists and by whatever means. He told Truman China would not enter the Korean war, but then pushed past the 38th parallel. In retrospect MacArthur badly anticipated the strength of the Chinese forces, leading to a prolongation of the war and thousands of lives lost.

 

[Oriel]

If China really has the balls it thinks it does how about pushing into Russian territory as they claim some of that land to be theirs as well.

China AFAIK has no current territorial claims in the Russian Far East. Unless you're thinking of the bit of Manchuria annexed by the Tsarist regime from the Qing in the 19th century. The treaty which transfered that territory has long been recognised by the PRC.

 

[snap]

From the same Wikipedia page:

In April 1951, the Joint Chiefs of Staff drafted orders for MacArthur authorizing nuclear attacks on Manchuria and the Shantung Peninsula if the Chinese launched airstrikes originating from there against his forces.[316] The next day Truman met with the chairman of the United States Atomic Energy Commission, Gordon Dean,[317] and arranged for the transfer of nine Mark 4 nuclear bombs to military control.[318] Dean was apprehensive about delegating the decision on how they should be used to MacArthur, who lacked expert technical knowledge of the weapons and their effects.[319] The Joint Chiefs were not entirely comfortable about giving them to MacArthur either, for fear that he might prematurely carry out his orders.[316] Instead, they decided that the nuclear strike force would report to the Strategic Air Command.[320]

I don't think it's as clear cut as you make it out to be. It was obvious that MacArthur was relieved of command by Truman by insubordination as you said, but I don't think Truman trusted him not to escalate the conflict. There are interviews where MacArthur said he wanted to destroy all Communists and by whatever means. He told Truman China would not enter the Korean war, but then pushed past the 38th parallel. In retrospect MacArthur badly anticipated the strength of the Chinese forces, leading to a prolongation of the war and thousands of lives lost.

None of that claims he wanted to use them, though, just that they were going to give him the ability to use them and decided not to.

And I agree, Truman expected him to escalate the conflict, I said as much in my original post.

MacArthur had Truman's authorization to push past the 38th--if he had done so, captured Pyongyang, and then immediately sued for peace, in all likelihood China wouldn't have entered (at least not in the numbers that they did) and North Korea would not exist today (but more conflicts between Korea and China may).

And yes, he misjudged how much the Chinese would commit to the conflict--this almost lost them the war before an American counterattack pushed the Chinese back to the 38th parallel. One may even pose the thought that the reason he wanted a war with China so badly was because his pride was wounded and he wanted payback.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

My (admittedly limited) understanding was that the stalemate was mostly driven by China committing quite a large force and Truman not wishing to begin a massive ground war in China.

MacArthur acting like a renegade and pushing for full-on conflict is what ended the war in that state--if he had stopped at Pyongyang the world would be a far different place than it is today.

Then again, you've been pretty pro-China in this thread, so maybe my understanding isn't as limited as I'm putting on.

I'm not pro China but I'll tell you it's probably not a good idea to underestimate a country like China in matters of war.

 

[FUME5]

If China and India do get into it I can't see any Western 'allies' getting involved in the conflict, but they'll be more than happy to sell weapon systems and see how well they fare.

And people are in this thread talking about the Korean war like it has any bearing on a modern military engagement involving China?

 

[IndoAssassin]

A dictator vs extremist party? Yet people claim this will just end after a few skirmishes involving military deaths.

I heard from someone that Russia has moved nukes to the Chinese border and China has moved theirs to the Russian border because of this conflict. Is this true?

 

[Shogun413]

A dictator vs extremist party? Yet people claim this will just end after a few skirmishes involving military deaths.

I heard from someone that Russia has moved nukes to the Chinese border and China has moved theirs to the Russian border because of this conflict. Is this true?

No that is definitely BS. Both Russia and China have mobile ICBMs and land ICBMs that can hit anywhere in the world. There would be no need to move them to the border as you say. Plus people need to stop with the fearmongering. Nobody is starting WWIII over Bhutan lol.

 

[snap]

A dictator vs extremist party? Yet people claim this will just end after a few skirmishes involving military deaths.

I heard from someone that Russia has moved nukes to the Chinese border and China has moved theirs to the Russian border because of this conflict. Is this true?

No that is definitely BS. Both Russia and China have mobile ICBMs and land ICBMs that can hit anywhere in the world. There would be no need to move them to the border as you say. Plus people need to stop with the fearmongering. Nobody is starting WWIII over Bhutan lol.

there was that recent news of china moving forces towards the north korean border, though. makes you wonder if they're waiting for an opening to enter into north korea and subsume the country on some pretext, installing a government less prone to start a nuclear war at the behest of an unstable dictator.

edit: of course, this would presumably be done like how Russia annexed Crimea--quick enough and with enough uncertainty that the North Korean army wouldn't fight back.

 

[Zeus Molecules]

Normally I think America would get involved through the state department to try and calm to two nuclear powered countries down........

Now welp I am not even sure they know what is happening is Fox News has been talking about it

 

[Shogun413]

there was that recent news of china moving forces towards the north korean border, though. makes you wonder if they're waiting for an opening to enter into north korea and subsume the country on some pretext, installing a government less prone to start a nuclear war at the behest of an unstable dictator.

edit: of course, this would presumably be done like how Russia annexed Crimea--quick enough and with enough uncertainty that the North Korean army wouldn't fight back.

I think the military is actually there to prevent a humanitarian crisis in Manchuria if war breaks out. They would be there to prevent millions of refugees from crossing over the border. I highly doubt China would ever enter into another war with the US over Korea. Plus the threat of North Korea using nuclear weapons on China would be pretty high in that scenario.

 

[snap]

Normally I think America would get involved through the state department to try and calm to two nuclear powered countries down........

Now welp I am not even sure they know what is happening is Fox News has been talking about it

Nukes are off the table.

At worst we get a situation like the one in Ukraine. Most likely we'll get a few weeks of fighting before a ceasefire and worsened relations between the two nations.

I think the military is actually there to prevent a humanitarian crisis in Manchuria if war breaks out. They would be there to prevent millions of refugees from crossing over the border. I highly doubt China would ever enter into another war with the US over Korea. Plus the threat of North Korea using nuclear weapons on China would be pretty high in that scenario.

oh for sure, in fact I find it more likely for China to side with the US than North Korea in the case of a war on the Korean peninsula. It's either help end the conflict as quickly as possible to prevent the status quo from becoming too upset (and maybe gaining some territory out of it), or wait it out until South Korea, Japan, and maybe even the US are crippled by ICBMs, nuclear or otherwise, and having to deal with the havoc that would result on the Chinese economy as a result.

 

[Renekton]

China isn't going to do shit. Their army is extremely inexperienced with actual battle. They'd get rekt by India.

Then they might use this to level up their troops 😗

 

[Madness]

I had a thread on this when it started. China is in the wrong here. They are developing on Bhutanese soil and using some British-Sino declaration as proof when those are the same declarations they declare null and void when it comes to other territories like with Nepal and India.

India has to stand up to China here. Not because they want to. Just like China does not want war with the US, India does not want war with China. But when an ally aka Bhutan asks you to,and you have a decades long policy to protect and represent Bhutan internationally, you have to. Additionally, the area China wants to develop is a strategic area that ties Indias eastern provinces to the sub-continent. China knows this. They plan to one day retake Arunachal Pradesh aka South Tibet and also want to diminish Indian control over the region. The Dalai Lama will pass soon, and they don't want the Tibetan government in exile finding a new one that won't be a puppet like the one they'll install in Tibet in the East.

China also cannot stop. This is their chance to humiliate India for not supporting the One Belt One Road initiative. They also have a chance to destroy India's support amongst allies. If India cannot help Bhutan how much can they help Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bangladesh. There is no Soviet Union to help them now. Plus, they have a chance to land grab territory, build and disrupt a vital part of North-Eastern Indian security etc. If they back down,the nationalists will rail against the CPC. It is why they talk tough even against the US when it sails ships through the South China Sea or stood by as Chinese mainlanders torched Japanese cars and rioted during the Daioyu/Senkaku islands dispute.

Everyone saying this won't be WWIII, maybe not. But these are two Asian nations. These are not countries who went through World Wars and pledged not to fight ever in terms of being belligerents or mobilized outside their countries in large scale. These are two countries hungry for greater geopolitical assertion and with large armies. Just like Russia invaded and annexed Crimea, I honestly believe you will see a limited hot war here. China will roundly defeat India because they have greater and faster force projection, and will again declare a ceasefire and both sides will come to an agreement with a possible Russian brokered peace. And it will also create lingering resentment which will again flare maybe 2030, maybe 2040 etc. Human history is seldom simple these days.

 

[Lyriell]

China really needs to stop when it comes to taking land that is not theirs. You shouldn't be picking and choosing which ancient maps work in your favour and invading your neighbour.

You can build up your might on your side of the border, thanks.

They need to be honest and just admit they are invading peoples land/sea rather than claiming not to be an invading nation.

China also needs to get over what happened in the past and stop fueling anti-other country sentiment. Yes we understand at one time in the world people gave tribute to China... but is that really needed nowadays. We all need to remember we are one human race and get along with each other.

This obsession China has with being one of the two world powers is interesting, but you have to wonder if they will ever be happy sharing with the US/EU or are they one day going to actually push a war with America.

Sooner or later someone you push is going to push back... and we live in an era where you just cannot defend against all our nuclear war.

Xi needs to get his ego and legacy in check.
We already know how awesome he is... he doesn't need to invade countries to promote the chinese dream.

 

[Shogun413]

I had a thread on this when it started. China is in the wrong here. They are developing on Bhutanese soil and using some British-Sino declaration as proof when those are the same declarations they declare null and void when it comes to other territories like with Nepal and India.

India has to stand up to China here. Not because they want to. Just like China does not want war with the US, India does not want war with China. But when an ally aka Bhutan asks you to,and you have a decades long policy to protect and represent Bhutan internationally, you have to. Additionally, the area China wants to develop is a strategic area that ties Indias eastern provinces to the sub-continent. China knows this. They plan to one day retake Arunachal Pradesh aka South Tibet and also want to diminish Indian control over the region. The Dalai Lama will pass soon, and they don't want the Tibetan government in exile finding a new one that won't be a puppet like the one they'll install in Tibet in the East.

China also cannot stop. This is their chance to humiliate India for not supporting the One Belt One Road initiative. They also have a chance to destroy India's support amongst allies. If India cannot help Bhutan how much can they help Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bangladesh. There is no Soviet Union to help them now. Plus, they have a chance to land grab territory, build and disrupt a vital part of North-Eastern Indian security etc. If they back down,the nationalists will rail against the CPC. It is why they talk tough even against the US when it sails ships through the South China Sea or stood by as Chinese mainlanders torched Japanese cars and rioted during the Daioyu/Senkaku islands dispute.

Everyone saying this won't be WWIII, maybe not. But these are two Asian nations. These are not countries who went through World Wars and pledged not to fight ever. These are two countries hungry for greater geopolitical assertion and with large armies. Just like Russia invaded and annexed Crimea, I honestly believe you will see a limited hot war here. China will roundly defeat India because they have greater and faster force projection, and will again declare a ceasefire and both sides will come to an agreement with a possible Russian brokered peace. And it will also create lingering resentment which will again flare maybe 2030, maybe 2040 etc. Human history is seldom simple these days.

Agree with a lot of what you say but that bolded line is ridiculous. China not involved in world wars?!! I seriously don't think this will lead to war. It is a bunch of saber-rattling for both sides to appeal to the nationalists and then both nations will find some face saving measure to agree on. Both countries know how important the trade relationship is and won't risk it over Bhutan.

 

[snap]

China really needs to fuck off when it comes to taking land that is not theirs. You shouldn't be pick and choosing which ancient maps work in your favour and invade your neighbour.

You can build up your might on your side of the boarder, thanks.

They need to be honest and just admit they are invading peoples land/sea rather than claiming not to be an invading nation.

China also needs to get over what happened in the past and stop fueling anti-other country sentiment. Yes we understand at one time in the world people gave tribute to China... but is that really needed nowadays. We all need to remember we are one human race and get along with each other.

This obsession China has with being one of the two world powers is interesting, but you have to wonder if they will ever be happy sharing with the US/EU or are they one day going to actually push a war with America.

Sooner or later someone you push is going to push back... and we live in an era where you just cannot defend against all our nuclear war.

Xi needs to get his ego and legacy in check.

To play devil's advocate, why would he do any of that? This policy of theirs has been working pretty well so far.

 

[Lyriell]

To play devil's advocate, why would he do any of that? This policy of theirs has been working pretty well so far.

Because eventually someone will push back.

Do you think even the US would back down if for some reason China decided Hawaii was theirs?

There is a limit to every person on how much you can push them.

 

[Shogun413]

China really needs to stop when it comes to taking land that is not theirs. You shouldn't be picking and choosing which ancient maps work in your favour and invading your neighbour.

You can build up your might on your side of the border, thanks.

They need to be honest and just admit they are invading peoples land/sea rather than claiming not to be an invading nation.

China also needs to get over what happened in the past and stop fueling anti-other country sentiment. Yes we understand at one time in the world people gave tribute to China... but is that really needed nowadays. We all need to remember we are one human race and get along with each other.

This obsession China has with being one of the two world powers is interesting, but you have to wonder if they will ever be happy sharing with the US/EU or are they one day going to actually push a war with America.

Sooner or later someone you push is going to push back... and we live in an era where you just cannot defend against all our nuclear war.

Xi needs to get his ego and legacy in check.
We already know how awesome he is... he doesn't need to invade countries to promote the chinese dream.

Not sure what you are on about but you conveniently forget that the Monroe Doctrine was US policy for over 100 years. We have interfered in the Caribbean, South America and rigged Panama elections for our benefit. China is coming into Superpower status so they are just learning from the US in that regard.

Asia is also rife with historical animosities that aren't just limited to China alone. South Korea hates Japan as much as China. This is due to centuries of conflict between many or all the nations in a highly contentious area with many disputed borders. These are not issues that China "just needs to get over" as you say.

 

[Lyriell]

Not sure what you are on about but you conveniently forget that the Monroe Doctrine was US policy for over 100 years. We have interfered in the Caribbean, South America and rigged Panama elections for our benefit. China is coming into Superpower status so they are just learning from the US in that regard.

Asia is also rife with historical animosities that aren't just limited to China alone. South Korea hates Japan as much as China. This is due to centuries of conflict between many or all the nations in a highly contentious area with many disputed borders. These are not issues that China "just needs to get over" as you say.

This is fair. The US and other countries are no angels either.

Let me rephrase.... everyone needs to stop warmongering.

 

[Shogun413]

Because eventually someone will push back.

Do you think even the US would back down if for some reason China decided Hawaii was theirs?

There is a limit to every person on how much you can push them.

Trust me the Chinese would never invade Hawaii haha. China is pushing the limits of what it can get away with but it is not stupid. It serves nobody for China and US to ever go to war. Even if China invades Taiwan, I don't think the US would intervene.

 

[snap]

Because eventually someone will push back.

Do you think even the US would back down if for some reason China decided Hawaii was theirs?

There is a limit to every person on how much you can push them.

Sure, but they aren't claiming Hawaii. They're claiming the South China Sea--who's going to fight back? The US doesn't seem willing and none of those other nations pose any threat. Now they're muscling in on Bhutan's territory--at worst they get a short conflict with India, but at best they get to reaffirm their border claims. So on and so forth.

 

[frontovik]

This is fair. The US and other countries are no angels either.

Let me rephrase.... everyone needs to stop warmongering.

I'm inclined to agree with that. Unfortunately the human vices of selfishness, greed, and lust for power will continually wreck things.

 

[Shogun413]

This is fair. The US and other countries are no angels either.

Let me rephrase.... everyone needs to stop warmongering.

On that we can agree on. Hopefully Trump does not start something like invade North Korea that he knows nothing about. That is what I'm most afraid of right now, not a conflict between India and China.

 

[Oriel]

Trust me the Chinese would never invade Hawaii haha. China is pushing the limits of what it can get away with but it is not stupid. It serves nobody for China and US to ever go to war. Even if China invades Taiwan, I don't think the US would intervene.

Um, yes they would. The US has for years declared its support for Taiwan and insisted it would protect the country (yes, it's a country, get over it PRC) from Chinese aggession. Clinton sent a carrier task force to the Taiwan Straits in 1995 during a ratcheting up of tensions after all. America's only qualification to that promise of protection is in the event of a Taiwanese declaration of "independence"*.

*Taiwan is already independent but apparently it needs to formally inform China and the world of this.

 

[andythinkpad]

No but the US and Europe would be glad to sell them weapons to prolong any conflict.

Do you think its cheaper for India to buy America/European weapons or China buy Chinese made weapons?

And Russia sell weapons to both.

We can break it down to different category of weapons if you want.

 

[fastford58]

China is itching to test all of their new tech and capabilities. Just a matter of when and where.

 

[bbjvc]

In Asia, nearly every country has disputed border with another. blame the European colonists for those.

 

[bbjvc]

Um, yes they would. The US has for years declared its support for Taiwan and insisted it would protect the country (yes, it's a country, get over it PRC) from Chinese aggession. Clinton sent a carrier task force to the Taiwan Straits in 1995 during a ratcheting up of tensions after all. America's only qualification to that promise of protection is in the event of a Taiwanese declaration of "independence"*.

*Taiwan is already independent but apparently it needs to formally inform China and the world of this.

Well, China's current stance is they would only invade in the event of Taiwan formally declare independence, so I guess we don't need to worry about a US- China conflict over Taiwan then.

 

[Gabriel_Logan]

Do you think its cheaper for India to buy America/European weapons or China buy Chinese made weapons?

And Russia sell weapons to both.

We can break it down to different category of weapons if you want.

I don't really understand your question?

 

[sturmdogg]

If this limited war does go through, I'm hoping India kicks China's ass. Their actions and double talk in the Senkakus and South China Sea are pissing me off in ways I can't explain.

 

[kittoo]

I wonder, anyone know how much of a threat Pakistan poses to India these days? I know when Bangladesh split India basically crippled Pakistan's air force in a matter of days and Pakistan didn't have the ground troops to pose any sort of a threat.

It's mostly the nukes. In conventional terms it wouldn't be all that big a threat. But of course nukes change everything.

 

[vivekTO]

I don't think this will go to war. there are active diplomats on both sides to handle this situation peacefully , although the aggression from china may cause some trouble for future relations

Also, I don't know where this National anthem thing is coming from, Its existed for years, i don't know about 90s as i was young, but still its existed in 20s.

If this limited war does go through, I'm hoping India kicks China's ass.

Nah, Indian millitary is not capable to face PLA in direct warfare, the equipments and weapons they are using is from Cold war era. the indian army really didn't progress much in that sector. but if comes to Small guerrilla warfare in that particular region, than they might have a chance.

 

[Imperfected]

In Asia, nearly every country has disputed border with another. blame the European colonists for those.

Japan didn't exactly help matters, either.

 

[kittoo]

It was a train full of Hindu pilgrims that caught fire, burning many of them to death. The BJP state government said it was attacked by a mob of Muslims, the central government said it was an accidental fire that started inside the train. Afterwards, there was an anti-Muslim pogrom encouraged by the current Prime Minister that featured assaults, burnings, murders, and rapes. When it's brought up in arguments like this, it's usually to excuse that pogrom as being the result of central government "coddling" Muslims, as it was in that post.

"Caught fire". At least have the decency of not pissing on dead innocents. Cartoon_soldier already posted rebuttal to your post. It has been proven in the court that it was a conspiracy. Maybe you should read from the Nanavati commission (which court had established) report, which proved beyond doubt it was a Muslim mob. People are in jail because of that. But in all your bias you only read the commision which was setup by Congress and it's only job was to somehow prove it was spontaneous fire. The report of that commission was thrown out by the court as 'fictional, biased garbage'.
I really don't get how people can go do far as to not even give the dead their due justice and respect. Be it people like you who try to cast doubt on what really happened, and people like the congress party and that commission who went as far as to falsify the death of innocents.

 

[Ishan]

I don't think this will go to war. there are active diplomats on both sides to handle this situation peacefully , although the aggression from china may cause some trouble for future relations

Also, I don't know where this National anthem thing is coming from, Its existed for years, i don't know about 90s as i was young, but still its existed in 20s.




Nah, Indian millitary is not capable to face PLA in direct warfare, the equipments and weapons they are using is from Cold war era. the indian army really didn't progress much in that sector. but if comes to Small guerrilla warfare in that particular region, than they might have a chance.

im indian and more or less this. India will not beat china militarily conventional warfare. Small contained skirmished in terrains indians are better equipped to handle yeah its a toss up. But if shit really hits the fan nukes fly and everyone loses. But I doubt anyone thinks thats going to happen.

The most logical course as some ppl are talking about is just let the impass stay let winter come then both backoff on logistics and diplomacy prevails before next summer.

 

[kittoo]

Nah, Indian millitary is not capable to face PLA in direct warfare, the equipments and weapons they are using is from Cold war era. the indian army really didn't progress much in that sector. but if comes to Small guerrilla warfare in that particular region, than they might have a chance.

In a direct warfare in China, most probably India wouldn't win. But in this sector, the Himalayas? No chance China can win. There is a reason why despite their huff and puff they haven't done shit. India has immense natural, numerical and military advantages there. Maybe India will not be driving till Lhasa, but the Chinese will Not be getting to drive a single inch on indian soil either.
You see the Indian response to this? Measured, calm and assured? That's the posture of a power who knows they will win this.

 

[Ishan]

"Caught fire". At least have the decency of not pissing on dead innocents. Cartoon_soldier already posted rebuttal to your post. It has been proven in the court that it was a conspiracy. Maybe you should read from the Nanavati commission (which court had established) report, which proved beyond doubt it was a Muslim mob. People are in jail because of that. But in all your bias you only read the commision which was setup by Congress and it's only job was to somehow prove it was spontaneous fire. The report of that commission was thrown out by the court as 'fictional, biased garbage'.
I really don't get how people can go do far as to not even give the dead their due justice and respect. Be it people like you who try to cast doubt on what really happened, and people like the congress party and that commission who went as far as to falsify the death of innocents.

dude first of all back off. Many muslims died in the ensuing riots way more. Some ppl overstate our communal tensions but they do exist . And both sides do kill each other. This is about india and china not about our internal communal issues.

EDIT

I remember a hindu lower caste poster who was totally outraged at upper caste treatment of lower caste and then completely oblivious about hindu vs muslim issues. These things arent that simple. Plus as I said internal not relevant to this topic.

 

[vivekTO]

In a direct warfare in China, most probably India wouldn't win. But in this sector, the Himalayas? No chance China can win. There is a reason why despite their huff and puff they haven't done shit. India has immense natural, numerical and military advantages there. Maybe India will not be driving till Lhasa, but the Chinese will Not be getting to drive a single inch on indian soil either.
You see the Indian response to this? Measured, calm and assured? That's the posture of a power who knows they will win this.

Actually that is what i was saying, Indian army has advantage in Himalayas or in specific regions, What i was talking about full on war. they are not capable to Withold china than.


Also,I have seen that the thread around Indian politics on Gaf has really some twisted and misinformed kind of comments and posts, but I couldn't blame them , even the mod here argue with you quoting Wikipedia entries, so i can't expect much better.Its really not a great place to discuss about Indian politics that for sure.