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[Pluto]

Hmm, is the Kaguya short story just the same of the S film? I skimmed through it today. I'll probably read it eventually, but I wanna prioritize the material that I'm not aware of.

It's very similar but not identical, if you read it you'll find some differences both in the story and characterization.

This reminds me that I really dislike the short story volumes of the manga's second edition, shoving them into separate volumes as if they're not part of Sailor Moon proper is doing them a disservice imo. This also led to many people claiming that the original 18 volume of the manga were condensed into 12 for the re-release, which is simply wrong. Not that I blame those people, it's clearly Kodansha's fault.

 

[MikeMyers]

Ha, it took exactly a month to get a new page.

So were short stories originally in the man stories volumes? I feel like that'd be distracting to be honest.

 

[CorvoSol]

YES GOD THANK YOU CORVO I COMPLETELY AGREE

Except I generally like Pluto, even though yeah she's still kind of a bitch. But nothing like Uranus and Neptune, and what's worse, they're consistently made to look so awesome and so cool and they're so good at everything and better than the inner senshi when they're fucking not. Ugh, trash.

Chibi-Usa is at her best in S though, like she's actually alright. And I like the villains and Hotaru. Sailor Moon and R are probably my favorite seasons overall. S has the outers undeservedly hogging spotlight, while SuperS becomes Chibi-Usa and friends (plus bestiality). I don't necessarily care for the focus on the Starlights in Stars, but they're not as bad as Uranus and Neptune.

Also, I always cheer at episode 110 when they die. If only it could've remained that way.

Pluto's savin' trait is that she's not as bitchy in terms of attitude. It's mostly just that she spends time playin' Uranus's dumb "We're better than Inners" when Pluto KNOWS that's not true. Also Pluto at least seems to care about Chibiusa, which is more than I can say for Anus and Cardboard Box. They care only about themselves and how best to make Vejeta look like a nice friend to have.

Series is constantly up their butts and yet it never, ever delivers on their hype. Like, for all that they're supposed to be more powerful than Inners, Only Moon and Jupiter have ever killed Monsters. Anus and Box have never once done that.

 

[MikeMyers]

Venus and Mars killed some of the D-Girls if you want to count that, and Venus killed a monster with Jupiter in the Doom Tree arc.

 

[Pluto]

So were short stories originally in the man stories volumes? I feel like that'd be distracting to be honest.

Yes, all of vol. 11 was the Princess cagey story and Casablanca Memory, the others were spread out over the other volumes with the exception of Parallel Sailor Moon, that one was originally published in the Materials collection and is not in continuity with the main series.

It wasn't really distracting, they were cute side stories that appeared at the end of some volumes and they weren't counted as acts, it was just something I liked to read after that moths part of the main story was over.

Series is constantly up their butts and yet it never, ever delivers on their hype. Like, for all that they're supposed to be more powerful than Inners, Only Moon and Jupiter have ever killed Monsters. Anus and Box have never once done that.

Uranus and Neptune killed the monster in their very first episode after Sailor Moon was defeated, depowered and completely helpless and the others didn't even get to transform.

 

[Pluto]

double post, sorry.

 

[MikeMyers]

Through, I agree it's annoying they never get over their whole "we are better than you, oh you showed up wrong, well we are better than you" stitch.

 

[Pluto]

Uranus and Neptune were arrogant snots but I still liked them, it was a breath of fresh air to have soldiers who didn't immediately proclaim Sailor Moon to be the best ever, I think it was kind of realistic. They were fighting to save the world and didn't understand Sailor Moon's hugs and kisses/no one is allowed to die approach.

 

[CorvoSol]

Uranus and Neptune were arrogant snots but I still liked them, it was a breath of fresh air to have soldiers who didn't immediately proclaim Sailor Moon to be the best ever, I think it was kind of realistic. They were fighting to save the world and didn't understand Sailor Moon's hugs and kisses/no one is allowed to die approach.

They're tryin' to kill a child and pass it off as a matter of philosophical differences with a massive helpin' of superiority complex. Queen Beryl was more humble.

 

[MikeMyers]

Queen Beryl was a saint.

Could you imagine if Mamoru got with Beryl instead? Would we still get the break-up arc? Or does it become Saint Seiya?

 

[CorvoSol]

Queen Beryl was a saint.

Could you imagine if Mamoru got with Beryl instead? Would we still get the break-up arc? Or does it become Saint Seiya?

I'd like to believe in a better Sailor Moon where Mamoru hooks up with Beryl and outer Senshi don't exist. I can't, tho, cuz as Evil Endymion Mamoru was still as useless as the Outers are.

Basically if flowers show up around your appearance on screen in Sailor Moon you're a worthless chump.

Meanwhile workin' class Senshi carry the series on their backs.

Is an Inner not entitled to the sweat of her tiara?

 

[MikeMyers]

The Inners screentime will continue to decline with SuperS and Stars, and the manga prioritizes the romance over the friendship, so no luck there.

There's PGSM if you want more Inners goodness though.

 

[CorvoSol]

The Inners screentime will continue to decline with SuperS and Stars, and the manga prioritizes the romance over the friendship, so no luck there.

There's PGSM if you want more Inners goodness though.

I want to see the catastrophe that makes Moon a Queen, but I'm slowly comin' to terms with the fact that I never will.

I've heard rumors about Stars, but I'll try to not cloud my opinion of it till I'm there.

 

[MikeMyers]

Usagi character arc is handled really well in the manga IMO, the manga version of Stars is basically the ultimate culmination of her character arc. Through I think that's a reason why I see people dislike it.

The anime version of Stars is quite similar to S. So yeah, if you don't like anime S too much, I can't imagine you'll like it, but we shall see.

 

[Bladenic]

Venus and Mars killed some of the D-Girls if you want to count that, and Venus killed a monster with Jupiter in the Doom Tree arc.

That doesn't count. Who's the only bitch to destroy both a Cardian and a Daimon totally on her own? That's right, Jupiter.

 

[CorvoSol]

Usagi character arc is handled really well in the manga IMO, the manga version of Stars is basically the ultimate culmination of her character arc. Through I think that's a reason why I see people dislike it.

The anime version of Stars is quite similar to S. So yeah, if you don't like anime S too much, I can't imagine you'll like it, but we shall see.

I feel like all of S's ideas are OK, it's the execution. It feels incoherent or disjointed to me. Like, at first Neptune and Uranus were developin' okay and their development seemed to promote the Inners' development, too, like with Ami's swim episode, but like, after Kaorinite leaves, until hotaru arrives, it feels lost. Sailor Moon saves Neptune and Uranus and somehow they become extremely upset at her and insist on a different vision of a world they never bother to elaborate on. I allow Chibiusa's arrival as a means of settin' up her arc with Saturn, and I don't really mind Sailor Chibi Moon, either. But at the same time, her arrival before we even meet hotaru feels sudden, bizarre, and disconnected from the rest of the arc. Likewise last season made a point of sayin' Pluto wasn't supposed to leave and that she was some kind of lonely sentinel, yet now she's pallin' around with Neptune and Uranus, acceptin' their narrative despite knowin' that Moon is more than what they claim she is.

It's even weirder because her stated purpose and powers are to combat enemies from beyond the Solar System, which is precisely what the Dark/Black Moon were, and yet she didn't act at that time, and is instead aidin' Neptune and Uranus's very specific mission to defeat Sailor Saturn, who by all accounts is an enemy from within the Solar System, not without.

Then there's the fact that they're willin' to deal with Mamoru, which makes even LESS sense, because in nearly 150 episodes I've never seen Endymion's powers come anywhere NEAR Moon's. Shit, Mamoru doesn't even have a named attack. his roses barely outrank Ami's bubble spray in terms of power. Yet for some reason they're willin' to talk to him, rather than Moon. The only part of it that makes sense is Mamoru not turnin' around and immediately reportin' to Moon, because Mamoru's always kinda been a cryptic dick himself. Shoot, Endymion was a colossal cryptic dick to Mamoru in R, so sure, okay.

Also I know I should just accept that there were 4 other Sailor Soldiers conveniently not invited to any major events in Silver Millenium's history or the past year of Sailor Moon's life, but what bothers me is that Uranus acts like she's supposed to be more of a pro at it than Moon and her crowd, yet accordin' to the season itself Uranus and Neptune have been at it for way, way less time than Moon and Venus.

I have a lot of complaints with S, but when it's not all messy, I do appreciate it. Like when Venus was upset that only her heart hadn't been stolen. That episode turned out kinda funny, yet also kept the sort of serious undertone to Venus that appeared in earlier episodes, like when her ex showed up. I also adore the Professor and Death Busters. They're far and away the most charismatic villains Moon's ever dealt with. Saturn's entire arc is pretty swell, and it's lettin' Chibiusa be more than she was in R.

S is still the worst season of Moon I've seen, but compared to some of my other exposure to the field of Mahou Shojo, it could be so, so much worse.

 

[MikeMyers]

I think you'd like S in the manga, the story is more constructed in the book and Usagi isn't pushed aside to borderline supporting character status like she does in the anime sometimes.

 

[Bladenic]

What I don't like about the Death Busters is the immensely disproportional time the Witches 5 get. A good amount of episodes for Eudial and Mimete... only one each for the rest? It's doubly weird because the rest of the villains each got ample time to shine (Spectre Sisters, Four Heavenly Kings).

 

[CorvoSol]

Uranus and Neptune killed the monster in their very first episode after Sailor Moon was defeated, depowered and completely helpless and the others didn't even get to transform.

Musta blanked on that. I suppose I can excuse 'em for not attackin' post Crisis Makeup, since even Moon's Level 1 Sekiha Love Love Tenkyoken was doin' anythin' to the Crane Daimons.

I think you'd like S in the manga, the story is more constructed in the book and Usagi isn't pushed aside to borderline supporting character status like she does in the anime sometimes.

I'm really not a fan of the titular character bein' pushed aside, it's true. I mean, for an episode to let others develop, sure.

 

[MikeMyers]

I thought R had the best character balance. Classic is good, but it does take a while to get everyone together. The other seasons felt like even Usagi was getting pushed aside for whoever was the new character.

 

[CorvoSol]

I thought R had the best character balance. Classic is good, but it does take a while to get everyone together. The other seasons felt like even Usagi was getting pushed aside for whoever was the new character.

Classic's only problem is Venus and Jupiter are super late to it. Sort of why Moon, Mercury and Mars are still the most defined.

 

[MikeMyers]

You know, for all the shit we are giving S, it does handle Minako's characterization better than Classic and R.

 

[Cheerilee]

in nearly 150 episodes I've never seen Endymion's powers come anywhere NEAR Moon's. Shit, Mamoru doesn't even have a named attack. his roses barely outrank Ami's bubble spray in terms of power.

At the start of the series, Tuxedo Mask wasn't a hero of justice, he was an uninvolved third party. A phantom thief. He was never on the scene to save the day, he was there because he was trying to quietly steal whatever item the bad guys were interested in.

While hiding in the shadows, he observed Sailor Moon fighting the good fight, and he took a liking to her. When she's about to lose the fight (because she's not a fighter), he acts like a sniper and fires a warning shot one inch off the bad guy's nose, threatening to kill the enemy if they proceed any further. Then he steps onto the stage and gives Sailor Moon some long-winded encouragement (the enemy lets him talk because they're afraid to provoke his fire) and then he retreats back into the shadows, because he's not stealing Sailor Moon's kills. He doesn't want them, he wants Sailor Moon to have them, because he has faith that Sailor Moon can become a fighter, all she needed was a small breather to gather her courage.

Tuxedo Mask was stronger than henchmen like Jadeite (they never fought, Tux faked out Jadeite and slipped back to grab some popcorn and watch the girls do all the fighting), and when he aimed to kill he was lethal against foes like Beryl.

Sailor Moon outgrew the need to be rescued on a daily basis, and several power-ups pushed Sailor Moon's power over Tuxedo Mask's, but for a while there, Sailor Moon's tiara attack couldn't even scratch Jadeite.

 

[Bladenic]

You know, for all the shit we are giving S, it does handle Minako's characterization better than Classic and R.

R is when she came into her own. Her Nurse episode is one of my favorites. But so is her S episode where she's determined to have her Pure Heart extracted. Minako-chan has some of the best episodes.

 

[cj_iwakura]

What I don't like about the Death Busters is the immensely disproportional time the Witches 5 get. A good amount of episodes for Eudial and Mimete... only one each for the rest? It's doubly weird because the rest of the villains each got ample time to shine (Spectre Sisters, Four Heavenly Kings).

I'm guessing it came down to time limitations. Better than the manga, you'd see villains get killed off in a couple pages sometimes.

 

[MikeMyers]

Through I do like how in the manga Usagi is allowed to kill post-R villains.

Also, Corvo, Saturn

Spoiler

is only seen transforming in the Sega Saturn video game

.

 

[CorvoSol]

You know, for all the shit we are giving S, it does handle Minako's characterization better than Classic and R.

I'll allow that, yeah. Minako's probably the hardest of the inners for me to describe, but S has been kind to her. It's not ALL bad in S. The inners had some development time early on, but it feels like they've been shunted a lot lately.

Also, Corvo, Saturn

Spoiler

is only seen transforming in the Sega Saturn video game

.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

WASTED OPPORTUNITY. It would've made for a killer reveal.

 

[MikeMyers]

The Saturn game also comes with a mini-episode, I believe.

 

[CorvoSol]

Most of this final showdown is enjoyable in S, but Sailor Uranus knowin' how to pilot a helicopter is incredibly stupid. Like, I can almost even believe that Neptune's barely explained rich daddy owns a helicopter, but a teen knowin' how to pilot it on top of everythin else she can do? Come on.

 

[Bladenic]

Most of this final showdown is enjoyable in S, but Sailor Uranus knowin' how to pilot a helicopter is incredibly stupid. Like, I can almost even believe that Neptune's barely explained rich daddy owns a helicopter, but a teen knowin' how to pilot it on top of everythin else she can do? Come on.

Well Makoto knows how to drive a boat, so I guess they had Haruka something even greater (also she's the senshi of Sky har har).

 

[Razmos]

It still confuses me to this day that Uranus is the Senshi of the sky. Why is her attack earth based? Her other attacks are quite fitting though.

 

[Bladenic]

It still confuses me to this day that Uranus is the Senshi of the sky. Why is her attack earth based? Her other attacks are quite fitting though.

It has been shown that large earthquakes have occured during certain planetary positions involving Uranus, maybe they got it from that?

Also it's possible her connection to the sky (in the anime at least) is portrayed through her sensing things in the air/wind, and also being a fast runner ("I am the wind" as she says).

 

[cj_iwakura]

The Saturn game also comes with a mini-episode, I believe.

It has an original opening and brief clips in between for each Senshi.

 

[CorvoSol]

Sailor Moon S 125

Ultimately, Sailor Moon was right about everything and Sailor Anus was wrong about everything. Anus was a colossal bitch hellbent on killin' a child who, as it turns out, was never evil, didn't have to die, and tried to sacrifice herself to save the world and Chibiusa in particular. All of Anus' blatherin' about "DIFFERENT WORLD VIEW" and "YOU ARE SO NAIVE" are invalidated because, well, Sailor Moon proved otherwise. And where Anus was a sore winner, screamin' like the bitch queen she is about "LOOKIT WUT U DID MOON," Sailor Moon, in her infinitely better moral character, said nada.

In the end I feel like Anus was the true villain of the season, constantly tauntin', harrassin' and lookin' down on Moon as Moon strove to do what was best. The Death Busters were incidental. If it was up to Anus people would've died and the world would've burned anyway.

I'll take some time to mull over my full impressions of the series before typin' 'em up, but if I could summarize Sailor Moon S in 5 words it would be: Sailor Uranus is a Bitch.

 

[MikeMyers]

She's worse in the next episode, haha.

 

[MikeMyers]

Why Sailor Moon Crystal isn't a total disaster

Thoughts?

 

[Bladenic]

Why Sailor Moon Crystal isn't a total disaster

Thoughts?

1. Fair point.

2. True, but most attacks in the original looked better (the only impressive attacks so far imo have been Burning Mandala and Sparkling Wide Pressure).

3. He still sucks imo, and I'd rather him not matter than the starring role he has here.

 

[Zoe]

Why Sailor Moon Crystal isn't a total disaster

Thoughts?

Agreed on those points, comments made me want to rage

 

[Cheerilee]

Why Sailor Moon Crystal isn't a total disaster

Thoughts?

I got the impression that the writer was reaching to find things to like about Crystal. I'm sure other people (not me) could present a more-solid defense of the show.

1: The art style is closer to the original manga.

That's not a positive or a negative, that's just a style difference. And Crystal's style was poorly executed, so that's a negative for me. I was initially excited about the idea of a true "animated version" of the manga, but my first impression of Crystal was that it wasn't Takeuchi's style, it was some sort of odd caricature of her style. It didn't feel right. And there's a reason why anime simplifies the manga style, because that makes things easier, which probably would have helped with Crystal's animation problems.

Also, I really hate the drawn-over CG.

A while back, I watched the music video for Moon Pride and it seems to contain some test animation for a style somewhere between the 90's anime and Crystal, and I like that style a lot more than Crystal's style, so there's no way I could say "closer to the manga = better".

And to stray off the numbered points a bit, the reviewer mentions "too much manga" and "too much 90's anime" as some of the endless and seemingly conflicting complaints against the show, and I figure the show could've gone one of four ways. Remake of the 90's anime. Animated version of the manga. Something new. Or a hybrid. What bothers me is that Crystal won't commit to any one of those paths, and has wandered inconsistently through all of them. At times, Crystal has veered too close to the 90's anime, at others it's veered too close to the manga, and at other times it's even veered too far into something original. And while I was watching, I asked myself "Is this a blend of two or three of those paths?" and found that I couldn't even answer "Yes". I don't know what the show is, because I don't think it knows.


2: More attacks in the arsenal.

Can't say I care. I cared about the attacks in the 90's anime, but that was rooted in care for the 90's anime. If an inferior show claims to have more attacks, it's like... so what?


3&4: Chibiusa's less annoying and Mamoru actually has a character.

These are good things, but I'm hard pressed to give the show points for fixing obvious flaws. The 90's anime was great in spite of it's flaws, but fixing them hasn't made Crystal watchable. I never actually noticed that Mamoru has a character (thinking back, I still can't see it), because Crystal somehow isn't drawing me into the characters.

I haven't seen the second story arc yet (I've heard it gets better), but Crystal made me quit after a few episodes (if anyone had told me that before the show started, I'd have said they were crazy), and when I came back (because I had to come back), finishing off the first story arc was a chore.

 

[Pluto]

Why Sailor Moon Crystal isn't a total disaster

Thoughts?

I agree with the article but don't like the title, "isn't a total disaster" is saying it's at least a bit of a disaster and that's just not the case imo.

What annoys me the most about the criticism is that it's so over the top. Yes, SMC is flawed but many critics are completely unreasonable, no, the art isn't always good, yes, the four senshi didn't get much to do in the first arc outside of their introduction episodes but it feels like every flaw is blown out of proportion and every good thing is overlooked.

Things Crystal does right:

The story arcs have decent pacing, things are actually happening and the show is not stuck with the same villain plot for aproximately 13 weeks until anything actually moving the plot forward happens

More attacks, the manga had a variety of attacks and SMC is using a lot of them when they could have simply animated one per arc. They didn't go the stock footage route in this case and I appreciate that, it makes the fights more dynamic if they don't cut away to the stock footage and instead have the attack happen "live".

The main villains get more backstory, the original anime may have had better characterization for the villains but SMC gives them motivations, the Black Moon clan for example, they reject future earths society and the longevity of its citizens along with Serenity's rule and I think they can actually make a case. Why should Serenity rule as a semi immortal queen who barely leaves her castle? And the concept of (near)immortality is a problem too, in many stories about that a recurring theme is that only mortality makes a life meaningful, look at Chibiusa for example, she has existed for 900 years but has she truly lived?
SMC will ultimately give the answer that Serenity's rule is a good thing but at least there is the seed of doubt that maybe it's not. In another story with a similar setup the godlike queen who sits in her castle and watches over perpetually happy, smiling citizens could easily be the villain with the audience rooting for the rebels to finally stab that evil witch and restore free will to humanity.


And looking back at the original anime, if I was as critical of that as some people are of Crystal and ihnored all the good parts it would be easy to call it crap too:
It's a filler ridden mess with awful animation, the only good looking parts are the stock footage, the rest is often off model with the bare minimum of movement, how often do I have to look at a still image with just a mouth moving? The story moves at a snail's pace, the villains do the same thing every friggin episode, nothing ever changes except that two new chicks who seem to be kinda useless where added around episode 10 and what good did that do? Nothing! There's just the shy girl being shy and the bith girl beimg a bitch, yay diversity. So they replaced the blonde villain with a brunette one ... who cares, it's still the same shit episode after episode, I bailed out after episode 20! Not worth my time.

 

[Cheerilee]

More attacks, the manga had a variety of attacks and SMC is using a lot of them when they could have simply animated one per arc. They didn't go the stock footage route in this case and I appreciate that, it makes the fights more dynamic if they don't cut away to the stock footage and instead have the attack happen "live".

That's actually something I would've liked to see more.

Takeuchi apparently wanted a faithful adaptation of the manga. Okay, that's great. But then she also wanted to rewrite some stuff, like with the Four Generals. I think that's great, but if she wanted to change things it should've been a completely new take on the old story, like the live action PGSM. But then the marketing department also said they wanted callbacks to the 90's anime.

I think they should've cut the transformation sequences. Of course, considering the show's apparent budget problems, anyone would've been thrown out of the room for suggesting something like that.

 

[MikeMyers]

I think what hurts Crystal's for me the most is the 2 week wait. Like we had two episodes of just exposition, so it felt like nothing had happened in a month. I also remember after an episode, I decided to read the corresponding chapter and it took me 5 minutes to read, so Crystal is at least 4x slower to me.

Through, I agree with Pluto that the original anime probably wouldn't have been well-liked if it was premiering today, as well. It really did feel like it was moving at snails pace for the first arc. Through I love the BGM for the original series. Crystal needs music. ;_;

 

[MikeMyers]

Finally finished Short Stories!

 

[Bladenic]

Sailor Moon reference about Pegasus in Orange is the New Black S3 haha

 

[MikeMyers]

What happened there?

 

[p_xavier]

And looking back at the original anime, if I was as critical of that as some people are of Crystal and ihnored all the good parts it would be easy to call it crap too:
It's a filler ridden mess with awful animation, the only good looking parts are the stock footage, the rest is often off model with the bare minimum of movement, how often do I have to look at a still image with just a mouth moving? The story moves at a snail's pace, the villains do the same thing every friggin episode, nothing ever changes except that two new chicks who seem to be kinda useless where added around episode 10 and what good did that do? Nothing! There's just the shy girl being shy and the bith girl beimg a bitch, yay diversity. So they replaced the blonde villain with a brunette one ... who cares, it's still the same shit episode after episode, I bailed out after episode 20! Not worth my time.

Thank you.

 

[cj_iwakura]

We need a drinking game for Sailor Moon Crystal.

Build on it as necessary.

• 'Minna! '
• Ominous Dark Kingdom Music
• Someone blushes
• Someone's eyes are closed while talking
• Someone winks
• Eyeless NPCs
• Someone wins but loses anyway
• Inspirational monologue with piano music
• Still frame flashback with sparkles

 

[MikeMyers]

I've been meaning to ask but what's the anime of, cj?

 

[cj_iwakura]

I've been meaning to ask but what's the anime of, cj?

It's from the Umineko no Naku Koro Ni visual novel(the PS3 one). There's an anime,but it's awful.

 

[Conan-san]

Why Sailor Moon Crystal isn't a total disaster

Thoughts?

It's not a "disaster" because "disaster" implies some sort of event that was in any way shape or form out of the hands of those responsible.

A hurricane is a disaster, Sailor Moon Crystal is a crime committed to celluloid.