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Shin Megami Tensei IV |OT| The Dark Souls of Persona

P

Protag

Banned
Saved two different files at first route split, one jon, one walt.

When i went with walter i spoke to the cynical man after and he said, "you're a hard man to read....you go your own way, and there are those who wont understand you...."

This means im in good area for neutral for now, gonna try and keep it that way, really want neutral.

When i speak with
the white, what do i say to stay in favor of neutral again? Preserve the status quo or another option?
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
BlackJace said:
Ancient Curse (aka LOL AILMENTS GALORE) brought me to ruin every single time.
Click to expand...

If you (or your demons) null a single one of his status effects, then the entire skill is nullified.

I set it up so my MC and 2 of my demons would null bind, which caused him to lose all off his press turns after using the skill.
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
Protag said:
Opposite chooce being what?
Click to expand...

It depends on what side of the alignment spectrum you're leaning more by the time you get to that question. It's the opposite of that. You could refuse to press the button after the battle, get back control of the character, save the game, and then try the two choices. Of course, if you're too far to one of the sides, not even the opposite option will take you to neutral.
 
B

BlackJace

Member
PK Gaming said:
If you (or your demons) null a single one of his status effects, then the entire skill is nullified.

I set it up so my MC and 2 of my demons would null bind, which caused him to lose all off his press turns after using the skill.
Click to expand...

Yeah I finally figured that out.

Also, yea or nay on the DLC battles?
 
P

Protag

Banned
charlequin said:
Or if you're already too neutral and either choice takes you outside of the range, grumble grumble razza frazza..........
Click to expand...

This is what im concerned about happening to me, do i get +5 law by pressing the yamato reactor remote without exiting first and going back in? Because i could def use that in my favor

I sided with walt, and that put me from "polite man" to "hard man to read, you do things your own way"

i ignored Takeru twice during the times he spoke to me, then after the battle, i pressed the switch without exiting to give it some thought. When meeting the people in the shinjuku shelter, when gven the choice, i selected "lets wait and see". How many law points is that?

Think i might have a chance at neutral this time.

Can anyone tell me roughly where that places me?
 
S

Soulhouf

Member
Protag said:
This is what im concerned about happening to me, do i get +5 law by pressing the yamato reactor remote without exiting first and going back in? Because i could def use that in my favor

I sided with walt, and that put me from "polite man" to "hard man to read, you do things your own way"

i ignored Takeru twice during the times he spoke to me, then after the battle, i pressed the switch without exiting to give it some thought. When meeting the people in the shinjuku shelter, when gven the choice, i selected "lets wait and see". How many law points is that?

Think i might have a chance at neutral this time.

Can anyone tell me roughly where that places me?
Click to expand...

All what I can tell you is make a backup save before activating the reactor.
If you fail to achieve the neutral path, reload that save.
It's not really long to run through the 2 alternate Tokyo again.
 
P

Protag

Banned
Sigh, all those hours spent, was so sure i was going to lock into neutral.

I ended being TOO neutral, and which ever choice i choose with the white, i end up on either side of the spectrum, law or chaos. Very lame, im going to just finish this playthrough on law alignment.

Edit: actually finishing on law this time wont be so bad. My first playthrough was chaos, will be interesting to see how law plays out. I want to one day do one playthrough doing all the quests on neutral, as well as all the DLC. I'll be selling all my armor except for my white demonica and the Hero red. Spent a good amount of time grinding for the Demonica, and the hero red just looks cool as hell.

Overall, its been a good playthrough for sure, wont do my remaining quests though, since no neutral this time

Edit II: Fuck Kenji and his fakeout btw.

EDIT III: just finished Law, wasnt bad, but i still didnt like the thought of
eliminating all of tokyo and its countless nymber of people. Isabeau was right, it was genocide. Really want to go neutral on my third cycle, and im gonna follow a guide next time.


Edit IV:
and wow a the last minute twist, "btw you have to sacrifice yourself because we have both been tainted. Bastard merkabah.

Question, is there a way to transfer over ONLY my armor and nothing else?
 
H

hipsterpants

Member
Do I have to go through this forest before I can check which alignment I'm set in? If I'm not neutral I'm gonna go Law which will annoyingly mean I have to do it again since I chose the Chaos option after Kenji.
 
S

Soriku

Junior Member
crush said:
Do I have to go through this forest before I can check which alignment I'm set in? If I'm not neutral I'm gonna go Law which will annoyingly mean I have to do it again since I chose the Chaos option after Kenji.
Click to expand...

Who did you meet in the forest? If it's Stephen then you're in Neutral.
 
A

Augemitbutter

Member
finally finished the game after 6-9 months, which is unusual for me. i don't remember when i started playing. the overworld map design dragged the game down, hard. i got lost several times while trying to progress. they were either deliberately hiding the entrance to key areas, or the map designer was just bad. like the entrance to roppongi was hidden down left somewhere. some random underground entrance with a dude in front of it. thanks for that. try finding that after a longer hiatus. i despise searching for something while being disturbed by useless random fights. there is no worse than that in RPGs. in this game you will certainly get trapped in that loop. dungeon crawlers come usually with complex maps and simple overworld navigation. this game got it wrong. at least they look nicer than your typical DC.

it's good to have the press turn system back, how you could fuse demons in the menu and the app system. i appreciate the story/character focus. i prefer this direction over a mute world where nothing happens. the main characters were well done.

that quest system can die. it makes you travel the overworld or areas you can't remember anymore by name. good luck navigating through that clusterfuck. i just remembered how i was trying to find that cafe/club where those people hang out. it didn't have his own world icon, yay. good luck with that.

the character art was alright, while the demon art was usually average. having that beside kaneko's best art is humiliating.

i was trying to be a neutral guy, but in the end, i got locked to law. getting neutral on your own seems almost impossible? not happy with the design here as well.

i felt the game wasn't harder than the newer persona games. you'll meet one of the hardest bosses at the beginning, the minotaur. the next hardest is
king kenji. i had to fuse another demon for him. the only time i had to do that.
and then at the end
lucifer. he was a bit easier, because i had better demons.

the music was all right. i think the best tracks are in town, or whenever you feel the 80s/90s cyberpunk influence.

i think the setting was quite good. overall, it was nice game, albeit with a glaring flaw. nothing spectacular though.
 
S

Soulhouf

Member
@Augemitbutter: I think many of your complains are irrelevant for players who know the layout of Tokyo. The world map is based on the real world Tokyo.
I imagine it can be frustrating when you can't remember the areas' names or their locations though, so in that regard your complain is justified.
With that said I like games that don't assist you and tell you where to go non stop. It's an old school J-RPG in that regard which is quite refreshing in this day and age.
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
As far as the area names go, after playing a few mainline Shin Megami Tensei games and Devil Survivor, or just replaying them, the names start being pretty recognizable.

i despise searching for something while being disturbed by useless random fights. there is no worse than that in RPGs. in this game you will certainly get trapped in that loop.
Click to expand...

Estoma allows one to completely avoid battles in the map (although in 3d areas you need to hit them).

that quest system can die. it makes you travel the overworld or areas you can't remember anymore by name. good luck navigating through that clusterfuck. i just remembered how i was trying to find that cafe/club where those people hang out. it didn't have his own world icon, yay. good luck with that.
Click to expand...

I like how the quest system allowed them to add many references to the myths/origins of each demon (In fact, it's something I dislike about a previous SMT, Nocturne. What's the point of using mythological demons if most of them have completely random roles in the game?). But, yeah, if you have navigation problems, it won't help.

As far as harder bosses go, if you had gone for the challenge quests, in the Law route there'd still be Beelzebub (who can be faced in all routes), Azazel and Mastema. But, yes, SMT4 gets easy after the Minotaur if you're already familiar with SMT's skills and knows what to go for.
 
A

Augemitbutter

Member
Soulhouf said:
@Augemitbutter: I think many of your complains are irrelevant for players who know the layout of Tokyo. The world map is based on the real world Tokyo.
I imagine it can be frustrating when you can't remember the areas' names or their locations though, so in that regard your complain is justified.
With that said I like games that don't assist you and tell you where to go non stop. It's an old school J-RPG in that regard which is quite refreshing in this day and age.
Click to expand...

maybe it's easier for people who have the real map of tokyo memorized. but that's not all. traversing that thing is a pain, because it's pretty unclear where you can go, and which areas are closed off. you will be brushing against every wall until you find a way out of this mess. it's like a frustrating maze.


NeonZ said:
As far as the area names go, after playing a few mainline Shin Megami Tensei games and Devil Survivor, or just replaying them, the names start being pretty recognizable.



Estoma allows one to completely avoid battles in the map (although in 3d areas you need to hit them).



I like how the quest system allowed them to add many references to the myths/origins of each demon (In fact, it's something I dislike about a previous SMT, Nocturne. What's the point of using mythological demons if most of them have completely random roles in the game?). But, yeah, if you have navigation problems, it won't help.

As far as harder bosses go, if you had gone for the challenge quests, in the Law route there'd still be Beelzebub (who can be faced in all routes), Azazel and Mastema. But, yes, SMT4 gets easy after the Minotaur if you're already familiar with SMT's skills and knows what to go for.
Click to expand...

i didn't have a problem with the names. ginza, shibuya, shinjuku, kasumigaseki etc. you've been in those areas a thousand times if you play japanese games. the issue i had was navigating through those areas.

i didn't know estoma had a helpful effect on the map as well (it's not in the description), that's why i didn't find it very useful.

sidequests are good to have, especially when they put little bits of story in there. however, i didn't have any drive left to travel those maps to find npcs, take photos etc. at the end, i just wanted to get out of there. i think the game would have been better with more straightforward dungeon crawling. what we got was 60% travel (infested with weak demons), 40% dungeon crawling. more travel time when you do side quests.
 
M

Mdesilva

Member
Protag said:
Sigh, all those hours spent, was so sure i was going to lock into neutral.

I ended being TOO neutral, and which ever choice i choose with the white, i end up on either side of the spectrum, law or chaos. Very lame, im going to just finish this playthrough on law alignment.

Edit: actually finishing on law this time wont be so bad. My first playthrough was chaos, will be interesting to see how law plays out. I want to one day do one playthrough doing all the quests on neutral, as well as all the DLC. I'll be selling all my armor except for my white demonica and the Hero red. Spent a good amount of time grinding for the Demonica, and the hero red just looks cool as hell.

Overall, its been a good playthrough for sure, wont do my remaining quests though, since no neutral this time

Edit II: Fuck Kenji and his fakeout btw.

EDIT III: just finished Law, wasnt bad, but i still didnt like the thought of
eliminating all of tokyo and its countless nymber of people. Isabeau was right, it was genocide. Really want to go neutral on my third cycle, and im gonna follow a guide next time.


Edit IV:
and wow a the last minute twist, "btw you have to sacrifice yourself because we have both been tainted. Bastard merkabah.

Question, is there a way to transfer over ONLY my armor and nothing else?
Click to expand...
Wow, this is exactly what happened to me. I beat the game on Law the other day, hoping for Neutral before the lock :( Such a terrible ending.
 
P

Protag

Banned
cj_iwakura said:
IV goes the extra nine. Being Law usually means you're a jerk, but in IV,
you're also dumb.
Click to expand...

Man i spent 70 odd hours sure i was going to get neutral, then i was going to do everything i could, i feel shafted tbh, really dont want to follow a guide fpr neutral because i just want it to come naturally.

That said, and idk if i said this before, but damn is lucifers palace' theme beast
 
R

randomkid

Member
Being 'too neutral' is so much garbage and I'd be pretty upset if I spent the whole game planning for that only to come up short right at the end.

Like most folks I've seen I accidentally ended up Law on my first playthrough and was not pleased. So in order to ensure neutrality on the next round I just followed what someone said about always picking the top choice and avoiding sidequests and that was a relatively painless way of getting through. Still pretty dumb though.
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
SMTIV's developers seemed to treat neutral as a "good ending" rather than just an alignment choice, which is pretty stupid. If you look at say, SMT I, the only thing that made neutral route "good" was because the player wasn't siding with the other factions. The route itself wasn't any lighter than the other ones. SMTI also used an alignment point system too, but it was much more clear and open than SMTIV's, where they even have that "too neutral" space which makes no sense.

traversing that thing is a pain, because it's pretty unclear where you can go, and which areas are closed off. you will be brushing against every wall until you find a way out of this mess. it's like a frustrating maze.
Click to expand...

It's a problem, but you can get used after a while. In your case, I guess stopping the game for a long time might have been a problem too though.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
Protag said:
Actual fight yeah, i was expecting something...else.

I feel like the developers want you to get neutral because its the full experience, as you get to
battle both merkabah and Luifer. I have to get neutral alone just to see my sweet Isabeau live as well.

And it is amazing, it felt like an endgame theme epitomized.
Click to expand...

If only it'd gone down like Nocturne's. That's a true final battle. Unsettling was an understatement.
"DEAD"
 
P

Protag

Banned
cj_iwakura said:
If only it'd gone down like Nocturne's. That's a true final battle. Unsettling was an understatement.
"DEAD"
Click to expand...

What could have been...maybe its because it was on a handheld, or maybe it really was just that B team at work. Still i think it hardly detracts from how fantastic this game was.

Would love to see a re-release though.
 
S

Soulhouf

Member
Protag said:
What could have been...maybe its because it was on a handheld, or maybe it really was just that B team at work. Still i think it hardly detracts from how fantastic this game was.

Would love to see a re-release though.
Click to expand...

I don't think it has to do with B team or anything. It's clearly a decision issue that has been made for that fight:
weak boss, ugly design and a stupid excuse to fuse Walter with him.
Markebah wasn't exceptional either but he was way better over all, which is a bummer.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
Soulhouf said:
I don't think it has to do with B team or anything. It's clearly a decision issue that has been made for that fight:
weak boss, ugly design and a stupid excuse to fuse Walter with him.
Markebah wasn't exceptional either but he was way better over all, which is a bummer.
Click to expand...

I'd rather have an SMT boss be cheap as hell and have potential for instant kill shenanigans as opposed to a pushover. One reason I think SJ is way more balanced, if not nearly as well presented or fleshed out.
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
cj_iwakura said:
I'd rather have an SMT boss be cheap as hell and have potential for instant kill shenanigans as opposed to a pushover. One reason I think SJ is way more balanced, if not nearly as well presented or fleshed out.
Click to expand...

They had stronger bosses with the Fiends and a couple of Challenge quests though. Also, the later DLC bosses. I guess they didn't want to make a terribly strong final boss in the main story itself, and so toned him down.

Don't forget that Nocturne's
Lucifer battle, as well as all fiends and the Labyrinth of Amala plotline,
were only added in a rerelease.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
NeonZ said:
They had stronger bosses with the Fiends and a couple of Challenge quests though. Also, the later DLC bosses. I guess they didn't want to make a terribly strong final boss in the main story itself, and so toned him down.

Don't forget that Nocturne's
Lucifer battle, as well as all fiends and the Labyrinth of Amala plotline,
were only added in a rerelease.
Click to expand...

Well, it kind of goes against tradition. Even the Persona game bosses can be tough if you don't break the game. And Nocturne vanilla's boss can be nasty if you aren't ready.
 
J

Just take it with you.

Member
I've been replaying this game lately, and I'm practically finished,
having merked Merkabah and stomped Lucifer
, and just finishing up some sidequests. Getting Neutral is indeed a pain (I got Law the first time), and I practically had to drag the game through a guide to get Neutral.

cj_iwakura said:
I'd rather have an SMT boss be cheap as hell and have potential for instant kill shenanigans as opposed to a pushover. One reason I think SJ is way more balanced, if not nearly as well presented or fleshed out.
Click to expand...

SJ's final boss went too far in the cheap direction though.
 
S

SpaceBridge

Member
God this game is like crack to me, I always want to go back even though I've gotten all four endings: neutral, law, chaos and bad.

Anyways, I transferred everything from OG 3DS to my 3DSXL to experience the game on bigger screen. Not sure how I'm gonna play now, but my question is: is there no more than 3 difficultiy levels? Also anyway I can delete a save file and start over fresh with no carry overs...game ain't nearly as tense when my stats make me higher than a Demi God.
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
One of the New Game + options resets your level and equipment, you keep app points and demon compendium though, IIRC.

I got Neutral the first time I attempted to go for it, without a guide or anything - and also while doing all challenge quests. However, it's all a bit too hidden from the player exactly right before the alignment lock.
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
Zhao_Yun said:
Should I use all my incenses on Flynn or should I save them up for some late game demons?
Click to expand...

Everything on Flynn. Lack of Mitama fusion means that giving any permanent boosts to demons is a waste. This game also has enough demons that you might be fusing even up to the final dungeon, without running out of demons in a first playthrough.
 
Z

Zhao_Yun

Member
NeonZ said:
Everything on Flynn. Lack of Mitama fusion means that giving any permanent boosts to demons is a waste. This game also has enough demons that you might be fusing even up to the final dungeon, without running out of demons in a first playthrough.
Click to expand...

Okay, thanks.

Jimmy Stav said:
Ha, I always meant to ask about this, but never did. Getting the true ending was still a breeze.
Click to expand...

Is the neutral ending the true ending? I decided to not use a guide and just play through the game normally. I hope I won't miss out too much by doing that.
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
Zhao_Yun said:
Is the neutral ending the true ending? I decided to not use a guide and just play through the game normally. I hope I won't miss out too much by doing that.
Click to expand...

There's no official true ending, but the neutral route is clearly longer and more elaborate than the others, and also harder to get into. So, it's pretty much a "true" ending of sorts even if not called that. Law and Chaos have some exclusive content too, but it's all secondary and optional.
 
Z

Zhao_Yun

Member
NeonZ said:
There's no official true ending, but the neutral route is clearly longer and more elaborate than the others, and also harder to get into. So, it's pretty much a "true" ending of sorts even if not called that. Law and Chaos have some exclusive content too, but it's all secondary and optional.
Click to expand...

Meh, after reading this I kinda want to get the neutral route but I am probably too far into the game to do that now. Really don't like it that one route is regarded as kinda superior compared to the others because it feels like the game forces me to do that route to get the most out of the game :( Sure, it increases the replay value but I must admit that I usually don't replay games these days because of my huge backlog. How long would it take to get on the Neutral Route in a 2nd Playthrough (NG+)?
 
S

Soulhouf

Member
Zhao_Yun said:
Meh, after reading this I kinda want to get the neutral route but I am probably too far into the game to do that now. Really don't like it that one route is regarded as kinda superior compared to the others because it feels like the game forces me to do that route to get the most out of the game :( Sure, it increases the replay value but I must admit that I usually don't replay games these days because of my huge backlog. How long would it take to get on the Neutral Route in a 2nd Playthrough (NG+)?
Click to expand...

Perhaps it's not too late.
If you want to get the Neutral ending,
try to be Neutral (check with the cynical man) before you activate the reactor
, make a backup save and see what happens afterward.
 
S

Splash Wave

Member
Zhao_Yun said:
Okay, thanks.



Is the neutral ending the true ending? I decided to not use a guide and just play through the game normally. I hope I won't miss out too much by doing that.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I didn't like the extra content very much. I had my fill of the game right before it started, so I wouldn't sweat missing out. Just read about the ending.
 
Z

Zhao_Yun

Member
Soulhouf said:
Perhaps it's not too late.
If you want to get the Neutral ending,
try to be Neutral (check with the cynical man) before you activate the reactor
, make a backup save and see what happens afterward.
Click to expand...

I just arrived in Ikebukuro 20 hours into the game. Since I can't access the cynical man yet I guess I could still do it?
 
S

Soulhouf

Member
Zhao_Yun said:
I just arrived in Ikebukuro 20 hours into the game. Since I can't access the cynical man yet I guess I could still do it?
Click to expand...

You still have a lot of time before you.
IIRC the cynical man will appear after you do Kagome Tower. Try to be Neutral when you head for Ichigaya later in the game
just before you activate the reactor.
and hope for the best.
Make a backup save when you go there just in ccase.
 
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