Arrogant Bastard
Banned
But that goes against originalism, for some reason I think people will get behind ignoring that fact for this amendment but not the 2nd.
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Should America grant citizenship to the babies of maternity tourists?
- Thread starter Piecake
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But that goes against originalism, for some reason I think people will get behind ignoring that fact for this amendment but not the 2nd.
GoldenEye 007
Member
Yeah reading that, it's really the company exploiting the law and coaching visitors to lie. Plus the tax thing too. They should get slapped hard for that. Keep going after the companies that are doing that. No problem here.
Not sure if messing around with the constitution is a good idea here.
The visitor, missing the coaching, would just be naturally denied a visa when they revel their true intentions of coming to the U.S.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Yes. Anyone born on US land is a citizen. Lying about your visa, and other shady deals is the problem.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
I figure basically this. You ain't going against that constitution.
Valkerionseven
Member
The abuse of the system by the parents and even worse, people who profit off this type of thing by having makeshift hotels in homes is what should be stopped. Illegal businesses and clear abuse of the system is what needs to be stopped. While it is not the kids fault once again... its being done for them so its hard to just instantly say "take it away from the kids"
Zippedpinhead
Member
Where I live People Are always saying "come here legally and have the baby, don't sneak across the border and do it illegally". This argument frequently comes up during immigration reform questions.
I'm of a mind that if she is doing this, paying for it, it's legal, and wants children then more power to her.
Oh and any baby born on US soil is a U.S. Citizen, as soon as you start making "qualifications" for future citizens then the easier it gets to take away citizenship rights for current citizens.
I'm of a mind that if she is doing this, paying for it, it's legal, and wants children then more power to her.
Oh and any baby born on US soil is a U.S. Citizen, as soon as you start making "qualifications" for future citizens then the easier it gets to take away citizenship rights for current citizens.
uncredited male
Member
You can get exemptions based on age. Then you can take it in a different language and have a translator present.
Companies exploited a loophole in both Chinese and American legal system where Chinese couples can have more than one child and have that child be a natural born US citizen ... and these companies are doing it for money. No legal expert but it sounds like a clusterfuck of both local and international affairs.
Perhaps not abuse, but it's an exploitation of a loophole akin to the tricks that this same economic demographic uses to avoid paying taxes.
This also really fucks over actual immigrants who intend to live in the United States, by delegitimizing the system of citizenship.
Littlefang
Member
Definitely not nearly as widespread as this, but it's certainly a thing. Haha that's just what happens when the healthcare in your country is ridiculously expensive. People will find alternatives!
NekoFever
Member
More that in all aspects of immigration, diplomats (and their families) are a special case. Diplomatic law is a whole field of international law with its own conventions and treaties.
Plus some countries that either don't recognise dual citizenship or aren't on friendly terms with the US might not like the US bestowing citizenship on the children of their diplomats.
In fact, there's nothing to stop the US-born child of a foreign diplomat making themselves a US citizen when they're old enough to make that decision. So in fact the law only means they don't automatically gain citizenship and therefore it clearly doesn't stop temporary residents becoming citizens.
Well with these Chinese "anchor babies" it looks like The US is getting "upper class" people doing this, so chances are these kids will go through public schooling in China then dump hundreds of thousands into the economy for their American University tuition.
Plus all US citizens are uniquely positioned to be taxed anywhere in the world, so they got that going for them.
It'd be better to be an EU citizen, honestly.
Plus all US citizens are uniquely positioned to be taxed anywhere in the world, so they got that going for them.
It'd be better to be an EU citizen, honestly.
I'm not sure why the proposed solution here jumps right to amending the 14th Amendment.
From the article:
In other words, in order to enter America, you need to get a visa. Visas are provided by consulates, and consulates have discretion in granting them and the power to investigate them. If you lie about wanting to go to America to give birth, it's visa fraud, so these agencies tell women to tell the truth -- that they want to give birth in America.
If we want to have fewer birth tourists from China, changing birthright citizenship is an overreaction. Start by telling the consular officers to be stricter about granting tourist visas to pregnant women.
From the article:
In other words, in order to enter America, you need to get a visa. Visas are provided by consulates, and consulates have discretion in granting them and the power to investigate them. If you lie about wanting to go to America to give birth, it's visa fraud, so these agencies tell women to tell the truth -- that they want to give birth in America.
If we want to have fewer birth tourists from China, changing birthright citizenship is an overreaction. Start by telling the consular officers to be stricter about granting tourist visas to pregnant women.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
Of course they should get citizenship, what kind of question is that? The Constitution is explicitly clear on the matter.
Erin S Kittens
Member
Do you believe that all white people should support white supremacy?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Yes, but why is following the Constitution necessarily a good idea? It was written over 200 years ago in an entirely different context. It's really unhealthy to just assume everything it says is a good idea, particularly when there's plenty of evidence to the contrary and America has an abnormally unhealthy democracy compared to a lot of other Western countries.
I can see great benefits to this. If wealthy Chinese families have their baby here, then in 2050 those wealthy Chinese-American adults are going to be American educated, bilingual and bringing their wealthy families here along with a lot of investment capital. They'll settle in California where speaking Chinese and English is valuable. I'd rather have people that valuable here than working against us in China. If they're coming here anyway it's probably because their creative business goals are being stifled in a still repressive China.
toweringinferno
Member
Most Nations don't do this. In most countries if parents were immigrants turned citizen, if they have kids the kids are citizens. If parents aren't citizens, kids don't get citizenship. It might be easy for them but isn't automatic like in USA
I really agree. It's pretty maddening that the constitution is so sacred in the United States. Regardless of your party affiliation, if you say anything to suggest that it shouldn't be followed to a T, you'll be practically seen as a traitor.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
How is "if you are born here you are a citizen" unhealthy? Its not even an issue.
Naked Snake
Member
My sister did this with her son. She didn't do it through an agency, but just went and stayed with my aunt's family (who are citizens) in Georgia a few months before she was due and had her baby in America for the sole reason of getting him the citizenship. Edit: I think it might actually have a little more to it than that, since my sister is Jordanian but her husband isn't, and she lives in Jordan but our constitution doesn't grant the citizenship to children of Jordanian women. Only men have that right. So if my sister had her son here he might have been left with no citizenship or something. I'm not too privy on the details.
I personally have no opinion on the matter. I just wish I was an American citizen
I personally have no opinion on the matter. I just wish I was an American citizen
My sister did this with her son. She didn't do it through an agency, but just went and stayed with my aunt's family (who are citizens) in Georgia a few months before she was due and had her baby in America for the sole reason of getting him the citizenship.
I personally have no opinion on the matter. I just wish I was an American citizen
I think that staying with relatives is a very different circumstance from using the services of a "maternity tourism" company.
unlike proper american babies.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I wasn't saying it specific to this issue, which honestly I've not even considered very much. It was a general point. "It's in the Constitution" should never be an argument in defense of a point of principle.
Also, this thread is a little disappointing. I had no clear opinion on this and came in just to see a few thoughts from others, but most posts are just "yes" or "no" with very little justification to them.
Absolutely, it's in the Constitution. As shady as this practice is, the baby, by law, is an American citizen by virtue of being born on US soil. If you want to do anything, stop maternity tourism.
For people against it, what effect does this have on you so that you'd be against it? The last thing I want is for the US to become as xenophobic as the Japanese.
For people against it, what effect does this have on you so that you'd be against it? The last thing I want is for the US to become as xenophobic as the Japanese.
Or you know, in this case, as Xenophobic as Europe.
Super_Cobra
Member
I think the U.S. Should stop granting citizenships for things like that. But if you move and become a productive person in the U.S., your kids if born in the U.S. Should be granted citizenship. This is just a scheme.
Geez man don't put citizenship on a higher pedestal than it already is.
Jacksinthe
Banned
Fights to the death.
Exactly, amendments will basically never happene again and we shouldn't be changing this anyway.
Countries that follow jus soli:
dark blue: Unconditional birthright citizenship for persons born in the country
light blue: Birthright citizenship with restrictions
baby blue: Birthright citizenship abolished.
As you can see this is mainly an American (the continent) thing. Since they are countries built by immigrants.
Hear, hear! My wife and oldest son (adopted) would definitely agree. Both are naturalized citizens - waited, paid, took the test, and swore the oath.
Congrats to you for doing so, too.
I personally believe that the people who actually go through with becoming fully legal naturalized citizens and follow all the rules to get there are the best Americans.
HisImperialMajesty
Member
The 14th amendment is the 14th amendment. You can bash the Chinese visa tourists because they are a easy target, but they're just looking to provide a better life for their children, just like all other immigrants to America.
What about illegal Mexican immigrants who have children in the US? Let's not go down a slippery slope.
What about illegal Mexican immigrants who have children in the US? Let's not go down a slippery slope.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_Clause
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
Super_Cobra
Member
Those that are using the kids to take advantage of the benefits that it comes with it then yeah they should have theirs taken away. Some just move over here to have better lives and I know many that have kids and the only thing they get from the government is school.
Yes. Please keep birthright citizenship.
too much potential for abuse and shenanigans if we remove it.
When the laws were written, we bordered territories owned by multiple European powers and Native lands... planes are irrelevant as you could easily come from "elsewhere" even back then.
too much potential for abuse and shenanigans if we remove it.
When the laws were written, we bordered territories owned by multiple European powers and Native lands... planes are irrelevant as you could easily come from "elsewhere" even back then.
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