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Should America grant citizenship to the babies of maternity tourists?
- Thread starter Piecake
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
What's the reason for blocking it? America doesn't exactly have a problem with population growing too fast, and the people that can afford to travel to america and stay a month until they have a child are probably wealthy enough to be skilled workers of some type, and will probably ensure that their child has a similar education.
The only theoretical problem we might have with immigration is its strain on the unskilled labor job pool and welfare programs, but I think most babies from maternity tourists are going to end up skilled. It's debatable if there'd be a noticeable difference even if we had completely open borders going by some economic studies, and I doubt there's a significant enough number of maternity tourists to make an impact. I'd imagine the economic impact of tourist babies have to be very low.
My parents had a couple from Russia as roommates who came here for birth citizenship purposes, paying rent for 3 months during pregnancy. The father was a doctor, and was decently well off. They had no desire to take advantage of America, they just thought Russia really sucked, and wanted to give his children the easy option if they wanted to get out of Russia. Everything they did was 100% legal and I don't see one single reason why we'd care to explicitly deny a family like that. If anything, it's a sign that we need to open up our immigration program further so that loopholes like that don't need to be used.
It is legal. Might be seen as a loophole, but foreigners are allowed to come here for short periods of time with visas, and babies born on US soil are guaranteed citizenship by the constitution.
The only theoretical problem we might have with immigration is its strain on the unskilled labor job pool and welfare programs, but I think most babies from maternity tourists are going to end up skilled. It's debatable if there'd be a noticeable difference even if we had completely open borders going by some economic studies, and I doubt there's a significant enough number of maternity tourists to make an impact. I'd imagine the economic impact of tourist babies have to be very low.
My parents had a couple from Russia as roommates who came here for birth citizenship purposes, paying rent for 3 months during pregnancy. The father was a doctor, and was decently well off. They had no desire to take advantage of America, they just thought Russia really sucked, and wanted to give his children the easy option if they wanted to get out of Russia. Everything they did was 100% legal and I don't see one single reason why we'd care to explicitly deny a family like that. If anything, it's a sign that we need to open up our immigration program further so that loopholes like that don't need to be used.
It is legal. Might be seen as a loophole, but foreigners are allowed to come here for short periods of time with visas, and babies born on US soil are guaranteed citizenship by the constitution.
GoldenEye 007
Member
State residency for tuition purposes, at least in a state like Florida, is based on the parents' information. Unless that student is above a certain age or otherwise not dependent on their parents.
Unless you mean the parents moving too and getting the needed state identification documents. DACA students introduce a more complicated scenario but that hasn't been too common just yet in my experience.
HisImperialMajesty
Member
Funny thing, both Yao Ming's and Yi Jianlian's (remember him?) children were born in the US. It's a pretty common thing now for well off Chinese to have children with American citizenship. I don't really see how it's a big problem as they're only going to help contribute to the American economy. Seriously, what's the big problem besides that they're "gaming the system", when it's 100% legal?
victreeb3l
Member
Yeah that feels like cheating. Took me forever to get citizenship here.
ok jaden
ok jaden
I didn't say it wasn't legal. I said it was an abuse of the system which it is.
SporeCrawler
Member
There only trueborn americans are the native americans. Every other american has ancestors that were immigrants. Thats why the laws are the way they are in anerica unlike in many other countries where blood counts. To be honest I prefer the "place of birth" rule rather than the blood rule. Looking at recent history (for example in germany) lineage rules have only brought seggregation and discrimination.
Also I cant imagine that the few tourists are a threat to american society. Quite the opposite. Those kids have well situated parents and might contribute to american society with a good education and certain wealth if they choose to live in the states.
Also I cant imagine that the few tourists are a threat to american society. Quite the opposite. Those kids have well situated parents and might contribute to american society with a good education and certain wealth if they choose to live in the states.
Actually it has nothing to do with immigrants -- it's to prevent the government from stripping the rights of black people again. See the Dredd Scott decision
Randolph Freelander
Member
Yes, the child should be a citizen, and frankly, our borders should be far more open than they are for everyone. This land isn't ours, we didn't create it, we don't own it. We're just using it. Most of us are descended from people that came over uninvited and stole it from the people using it before us. Who are we to keep people out?
We should accept anyone who wants to come with open arms. But absolutely anyone born here is already one of us, I don't care the circumstances.
We should accept anyone who wants to come with open arms. But absolutely anyone born here is already one of us, I don't care the circumstances.
I'm willing to assume the amount of people actually well off enough to abuse this system is so minuscule any money spent even drafting a thought to change it would be a waste of my tax dollars. Similar to spending time drafting food stamp fraud restrictions when it accounts for such a small fraction of actual expenses. The 14th amendment helps more people than it hurts.
Buddha Beam
Banned
I have absolutely no problem with birth tourism. Birthright citizenship is a good thing.
I think Australia does it too. One of my wife's friends went there to have her baby while she was waiting for her immigration application to process.
I think Australia does it too. One of my wife's friends went there to have her baby while she was waiting for her immigration application to process.
ConfusingJazz
Member
The 14th Amendment is awesome, jus soli is awesome, and it shouldn't be fucked with because some people feel that others are abusing it.
King Gilga
Member
Anyone who is born within the borders of a country should become a citizen of said country no matter what.
SliceSabre
Banned
No it doesn't need to be changed at all and the 14th amendment is one of the greatest ones.
The story says the parents were educated in Britain, wealthy, and planning to send their children to international school only for foreign students in shanghai. They'll speak English just fine.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Don't change a thing.. the amount of abuse is minuscule in the grand scheme of things.
Born here, then you're a citizen. Should stay that way.
Born here, then you're a citizen. Should stay that way.
Oh it was a joke. The kids don't speak any language yet. Pretty funny then.
I don't know why the U.S. would see it as a problem when the government has worldwide taxation. These rich babies end up either consistently paying a lot of taxes to the IRS, avoid complying with their tax obligations and get subjected to a lot more in fines or penalties, or end up expatriating to escape the punitive tax system the IRS has for Americans abroad.
And they would still be subject to worldwide taxation of their income. If these parents are planning to send them to international schools, which can cost about $20,000-$35,000/year (but in China, only those with foreign passports can attend these schools), I don't think this is really a long-con to get them to qualify for in-state residency in the future, rather than the more immediate qualification to attend international schools in China at a cost of upwards of $100-$200k over the course of 12 years.
Isn't this basically how Bruce Lee was born? I haven't looked all the way into it.
Birth tourism is just free money for the US
Exactly.
Indeed. Because not only is the US one of the few jus soli countries -- it's one of the only countries that taxes its citizens worldwide.
ConfusingJazz
Member
No, Bruce Lee was American because his dad was in an opera company that was on a year long tour of the US.
They then went back to Hong Kong at the end of the tour, but some of the company did stick around the US. And for good reason. The Japanese invaded a couple months after they returned.
Supermanisdead
Member
but my hard earned citizenship will be devalued now. whats the point of even being american anymore?
Nealand Liquor
Member
No it is not.
My best friend (Canadian) had a baby with a Spanish woman on a traveler visa in Canada and had to pay over 10k. A bit fucked since he is Canadian and all, but it would be rightfully charged if he wasn't.
We get taxed hard and my generation is going to see tough times with our medical once the majority of baby boomers start ailing. I don't feel it is fair to foot the bill for someone who has contributed nothing into our health care system.
Tatersalad
Member
To those that are talking about how sacrosanct the 14th amendment is, I wonder how you feel about the 2nd amendment. People seem pretty quick to talk about how outdated the 2nd is and how it should be changed. Are the amendments the cornerstones of our government that shouldn't be changed, or has time and technology evolved and the amendment should evolve with the times?
They probably feel that the whole of the 2nd Amendment should be scrapped (or kept), but they don't think that the 14th Amendment has elements worth keeping and that it is not worth the energy to repeal and amend the 14th Amendment for an activity that benefits the US economy and US tax coffers.
The US gives a 10-year tourist visa to Chinese citizens, and that is a new reciprocal policy agreed with China less than a year ago that benefits the US economy as it encourages tourism and investment in the US. You aren't going to be able to get consulates to ascertain that a Chinese citizen will be trying to have a baby in the 10 year period.
http://beijing.usembassy-china.org.cn/niv_info.html
EatinOlives
Member
There's mulitple problems with this mentality.
1) "Game the system and exploit our laws to their benefit". This is one of the very few ways to get into the country legally. Here's the other few ways:
So when you're trying to come into a country that is essentially doing everything in its power to keep you out, you find a way if this is the only chance of having a better life. You make it sound like the immigrants doing this are gonna veg out on their couch and collect endlessly large welfare checks cause their kid is a natural born citizen.
2) The idea of forcibly separating children from their parents because you want to have the satisfaction that your kingdom is locked further down is really appalling. That is absolutely no way to humanely close a loophole such as this.
The amount of people who have the ability to get into the country legally long enough just at the right time for a birth to happen is actually not that high. Some people in this thread are really overselling the effect this has on the US. It's really quite minimal in reality.
Nobody. But many people have a bizarre satisfaction in clamping down on regulations that benefit a handful who are more impoverished than they are. See also: hatred toward welfare laws, food stamps.
It took me a total of 14 years to do the entire citizenship process legally from start to finish. Many immigrants of my kind instantly adopt a hateful "fuck you got mine" or "it was hard for me so it MUST be for you!" mentality, which I find absolutely bizarre. It's like rather than developing sympathy for immigrants of their kind and wishing to have a better process, they shut down and adopt an attitude to make themselves feel better about having something others don't.
Those who didn't even have to go through any citizenship process their entire lives have even less room to talk, IMO.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
in the netherlands bot my wife and i are foreigners with knowledge migrant status. our child will get either of our passports from home country (or both) and when she is 18 the netherlands will force her to choose to naturalise, or not.
teacupcopter
Banned
Because America does it, the entire world should?
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
mainly a racists feelings
I don't see how that would work given that they get 10 year visas.
The US gives a 10-year tourist visa to Chinese citizens, and that is a new reciprocal policy agreed with China less than a year ago that benefits the US economy as it encourages tourism and investment in the US. You aren't going to be able to get consulates to ascertain that a Chinese citizen will be trying to have a baby in the 10 year period.
I also don't think we want the US renegotiating this agreement.
http://beijing.usembassy-china.org.cn/niv_info.html
Don't let the Republicans get you down.
No.
Well, it doesn't work like that in most of the world.
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