Support NeoGAF

[Bragr]

You mean a large batch of the games with high budget.

High budgets and good graphics don't make games good.

These games aren't static, wow and lol have changed a lot over the years.

Clearly it is, because you rank studios with higher budgets as "better" than ones with smaller budgets.

Many of the best games of the last decade are by smaller studious and small budgets, but there is nothing in gaming that is quite like having Sony Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, or Nintendo putting 60 million into a game over a 4-year development period. It's the biggest and best events in gaming and unmissable if you enjoy games. You don't get that on PC these days on the scale you do on consoles.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Some people are satisfied playing the same stuff over and over, and if you are playing the same thing for 20 years, cool, nothing wrong with that. But obviously if you enjoy games you want to try the best stuff out there, playing League with new updates or Euro Truck with a new map is not gonna do much for you.

You know "the best stuff out there" is a really subjective matter. I know people who have been playing WoW for 10 years and are bored by anything else they try (console or PC). They're not "satisfied" with those games, they don't think these updates "don't do much for them". Playing those games constantly is 100% what they want from gaming.

 

[RedVIper]

Many of the best games of the last decade are by smaller studious and small budgets, but there is nothing in gaming that is quite like having Sony Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, or Nintendo putting 60 million into a game over a 4-year development period. It's the biggest and best events in gaming and unmissable if you enjoy games. You don't get that on PC these days on the scale you do on consoles.

I really couldn't care less about these 100 million dollar games. They're soulless, they're can't take risks with that investment, so they're all extremely pretty, extremely polished, extremely bland games.

Also I'm not aware of any nintendo game with 60 million budget. Maybe if you include advertising.

 

[Soulblighter31]

PC has more exclusives than all 3 consoles put together. PC gaming is stronger and better than ever.

Yeah, I get the golden age of the late 90s and early 2000s but folks please be realistic and also state that during those days;

You had to upgrade more often

Games were buggier and hard to troubleshoot

Japanese and other console style games were non existent on the platform

Controller support was crap

I'll take modern PC gaming over that any day even if I miss arena shooters. Besides you can still play the old classics just fine.

This is console player mindset.

Japanese and console style games werent on pc ? Nobody gave the slightest flying fuck about those. They were laughing at console games, they thought they're for little kids. Who do you think spent a single second thinking about poor looking console games when PC had the absolute best games in the world, designed for the platform ?

Controller suport was crap ? Like, again, who do you think gave an ounce of fuck about not playing pc games in a console manner ? The fact that you had mouse and keyboard designed games that arent possible on controllers was one of the greatest joys of pc gaming. You had games molded entirely for the platform and its default input, which is superior in nearly every genre to a pad.

Games werent neither buggier, neither harder to troubleshoot

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

Clearly it is, because you rank studios with higher budgets as "better" than ones with smaller budgets.

Bragr clearly prefers to "watch" his games than to play his games

Cinematic video games are boring. Doesn't matter how much you spend on making them pretty. I'd rather watch movies and play video games.

 

[Bragr]

I really couldn't care less about these 100 million dollar games. They're soulless, they're can't take risks with that investment, so they're all extremely pretty, extremely polished, extremely bland games.

Also I'm not aware of any nintendo game with 60 million budget. Maybe if you include advertising.

What games are these non-soulless games you are talking about? what are the best games you played this last few years? ever play Breath of the Wild, RDR2, or God of War for example?

 

[Vildiil]

This is console player mindset.

Japanese and console style games werent on pc ? Nobody gave the slightest flying fuck about those. They were laughing at console games, they thought they're for little kids. Who do you think spent a single second thinking about poor looking console games when PC had the absolute best games in the world, designed for the platform ?

Controller suport was crap ? Like, again, who do you think gave an ounce of fuck about not playing pc games in a console manner ? The fact that you had mouse and keyboard designed games that arent possible on controllers was one of the greatest joys of pc gaming. You had games molded entirely for the platform and its default input, which is superior in nearly every genre to a pad.

Games werent neither buggier, neither harder to troubleshoot

 

[Bragr]

Bragr clearly prefers to "watch" his games than to play his games

Cinematics video games are boring. Doesn't matter how much you spend on making them pretty. I'd rather watch movies and play video games.

What games are you talking about that I watch and don't play? what games am I supposed to play?

 

[Bragr]

You know "the best stuff out there" is a really subjective matter. I know people who have been playing WoW for 10 years and are bored by anything else they try (console or PC). They're not "satisfied" with those games, they don't think these updates "don't do much for them". Playing those games constantly is 100% what they want from gaming.

Just like some girls think Twilight is the best movie of all time. But that's because they only watch Twilight and Harry Potter and nothing else. It's cool but ignorant. So if you play WoW for 10 years and nothing else, cool, but it's basically the videogame version of Twilight girls.

 

[MisterBrimstone]

Since PC is backward compatible with everything that came out ever I guess the answer will always be yes.

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

No. And it's just getting better and better.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Just like some girls think Twilight is the best movie of all time. But that's because they only watch Twilight and Harry Potter and nothing else. It's cool but ignorant. So if you play WoW for 10 years and nothing else, cool, but it's basically the videogame version of Twilight girls.

Funny you decided to put it that way. The games getting the equivalent amount of marketing, media exposure and budget as the likes of Twillight and Harry Potter are actually the games you're citing as "unmissable". In other words, they're in similar positons to the games you're praising. Are you sure it isn't you who's not playing anything besides these highly marketed titles, thus missing out on far better games out there?

To give you an example: I played both God of War (2018) and a game called Crosscode, both of which have similar execution in the sense they're beat'em'ups with RPG elements set in semi-open worlds. Despite being a fan of the original trilogy, i got bored of the new GoW in the first 6 hours or so. Boring story-line, meh combat and clunky controls.
Meanwhile i absolutely loved every part of Crosscode to the end, and still wanted more after 90 hours.

You could argue its just a matter of taste, but you see, i actually tried both these games. I didn't use Crosscode as a substitute for other titles i "couldn't" (i very much could though) play, I vastly prefered it over those. What about you, did you even tried other games like the one i mentioned? Did you ever tried getting invested in WoW? have you ever tried games like Factorio, Deep Rock Galactic, Disco Elysium, Rimworld, among many many many others?

 

[Cosmonal]

I meant BioForge from Origin Systems, not Bioshock of course.

 

[RedVIper]

What games are these non-soulless games you are talking about? what are the best games you played this last few years? ever play Breath of the Wild, RDR2, or God of War for example?

I played a litlle of breath of the wild (Which I don't think is a bad game, but it's not the huge budget game you were talking about), very litlle of RDR2 because I was too bored and I played GoW.

None of them are "bad" games, but they're extremely safe games.

GoW literally transactioned to the most safe genre there is.

Best games I've played this generation? Off the top of my head:

Factorio, Rimworld, Bloodborne, Sekiro, Dead Cells, Mount and Blade, Nova Drift, Noita, Return of the Obra Dinn, Tales of Maj'Eyal, Divinity: OS, Darkest dungeon, Slay the Spire, Enter the Gungeon, Risk of Rain 1/2, Hades, Kerbal Space Progra, I could keep going.

 

[Bragr]

I played a litlle of breath of the wild (Which I don't think is a bad game, but it's not the huge budget game you were talking about), very litlle of RDR2 because I was too bored and I played GoW.

None of them are "bad" games, but they're extremely safe games.

GoW literally transactioned to the most safe genre there is.

Best games I've played this generation? Off the top of my head:

Factorio, Rimworld, Bloodborne, Sekiro, Dead Cells, Mount and Blade, Nova Drift, Noita, Return of the Obra Dinn, Tales of Maj'Eyal, Divinity: OS, Darkest dungeon, Slay the Spire, Enter the Gungeon, Risk of Rain 1/2, Hades, Kerbal Space Progra, I could keep going.

Why don't you think Breath of the Wild didn't have a big budget? it likely didn't have 60 million, but it was big. 300 worked on it for 4 years, that's a big-budget game.

Just because the genre is safe doesn't mean the game is. They had to rebuild the entire combat system for God of War and design a world that could fit with the old games. Just the A.I. work for Atreus alone is extremely difficult and easy to mess up. They could have followed the old games but choose something different, nothing about that is safe. Breath of the Wild is the least "safe" game of the generation, there are a hundred ways they could have messed that game up, but they dared to change direction. Fans were ready to devour them if they messed up Zelda but they still tried to step out of their comfort zone. It's extremely rare developers do such things with major properties.

Most of the games you mention are built on other games just the same. There is no more "soul" in Dead Cells than God of War. Just making a 2D game is a thousand times safer than making a 3D game. But all that means nothing if the game plays well, so it's dumb to talk about safe or what-not at all.

 

[Bragr]

Funny you decided to put it that way. The games getting the equivalent amount of marketing, media exposure and budget as the likes of Twillight and Harry Potter are actually the games you're citing as "unmissable". In other words, they're in similar positons to the games you're praising. Are you sure it isn't you who's not playing anything besides these highly marketed titles, thus missing out on far better games out there?

To give you an example: I played both God of War (2018) and a game called Crosscode, both of which have similar execution in the sense they're beat'em'ups with RPG elements set in semi-open worlds. Despite being a fan of the original trilogy, i got bored of the new GoW in the first 6 hours or so. Boring story-line, meh combat and clunky controls.
Meanwhile i absolutely loved every part of Crosscode to the end, and still wanted more after 90 hours.

You could argue its just a matter of taste, but you see, i actually tried both these games. I didn't use Crosscode as a substitute for other titles i "couldn't" (i very much could though) play, I vastly prefered it over those. What about you, did you even tried other games like the one i mentioned? Did you ever tried getting invested in WoW? have you ever tried games like Factorio, Deep Rock Galactic, Disco Elysium, Rimworld, among many many many others?

Actually, it's funny you decided to put it like that. You judge games and movies based on budget and exposure, but movies are good or bad based on cinematography, story, acting, etc.. just as games are good based on the quality of the gameplay mechanics, art, music, story, pacing, etc... Twilight is not bad because of the money thrown into it, but because of how it was made.

Crosscode and God of War are nothing alike or have any remotely similar execution. God of War is not a beat-em-up (lol wtf), I mean, just because you have combat systems in both games, doesn't mean they are the same. It's like comparing an egg to a melon because they are both round. I'm not sure if you trolling or not here cause this is the dumbest comparison I have ever heard of. Whether or not you like Crosscode or God of War, is fine. I'm not saying you have to like one over the other.

I played hundreds of hours of Factorio before they fucked up the science packs, played a lot of Rimworld and WoW too. Played through Disco Elysium a few months ago. I'm not saying you have to play every game out there, but if you only play WoW for 10 years, your subjective opinion is gonna be based on no experience and is pointless. Subjective opinions can be ignorant. Subjective opinions based on experience is worth something.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Actually, it's funny you decided to put it like that. You judge games and movies based on budget and exposure, but movies are good or bad based on cinematography, story, acting, etc.. just as games are good based on the quality of the gameplay mechanics, art, music, story, pacing, etc... Twilight is not bad because of the money thrown into it, but because of how it was made.

i'll use your words to respond to that VVV

to make those games profitable they revamp the basics and re-skin it, while I like those games it's still very much a safe strategy to make a profit.

Don't think this rule applies only to Total War, first party and third party AAA aren't safe from this either. What if someone likes creative games, unique stories or new concepts? Chances are they'll find those very safe "best stuff" AAA games extremely boring.

Crosscode and God of War are nothing alike or have any remotely similar execution. God of War is not a beat-em-up (lol wtf), I mean, just because you have combat systems in both games, doesn't mean they are the same. It's like comparing an egg to a melon because they are both round. I'm not sure if you trolling or not here cause this is the dumbest comparison I have ever heard of.

Combat, encounter design, progression, map and level design... they're all very similar, but also because thats a very common formula. Not just Crosscode, there are dozens of others that are similar too.

but if you only play WoW for 10 years, your subjective opinion is gonna be based on no experience and is pointless. Subjective opinions can be ignorant. Subjective opinions based on experience is worth something.

Do you really think they care about having a worthy opinion? They enjoy what they enjoy, and they don't enjoy what you're calling the "best stuff out there" thus don't play them. They prefer the new WoW expansion over Ghosts of Tsushima and thats really all there's is to it, don't try to make out as if your opinion is somehow worth more than theirs, or as if they're lost lambs who weren't shown "THE LIGHT OF THE TRUUUULY GREAT!"

 

[RedVIper]

Just because the genre is safe doesn't mean the game is. They had to rebuild the entire combat system for God of War and design a world that could fit with the old games. Just the A.I. work for Atreus alone is extremely difficult and easy to mess up. They could have followed the old games but choose something different, nothing about that is safe.

Look, changing your game to be more like every other game out there is the definition of safe.

Most of the games you mention are built on other games just the same.

"Building off other games" is literally what every game does, it would be pretty much impossible to come up with a completely innovative game nowadays. But triple AAA games aren't "building off", they're literally copying other games and giving it a new paint job. It's the exact same game play loops every time.

Just making a 2D game is a thousand times safer than making a 3D game

Contender for most retarded comment of the year. Good job.

 

[Shifty1897]

PC is always most attractive at the end of console generations.

 

[Bragr]

Look, changing your game to be more like every other game out there is the definition of safe.

"Building off other games" is literally what every game does, it would be pretty much impossible to come up with a completely innovative game nowadays. But triple AAA games aren't "building off", they're literally copying other games and giving it a new paint job. It's the exact same game play loops every time.

Contender for most retarded comment of the year. Good job.

Wait, what game is changing itself to be more like other games lol, what games are you talking about that are copying paint jobs? I think you are just spewing words just to spew words here. There is plenty of room for innovation, it's just gonna be more nuanced.

The reason why indie developers choose 2D is primarily because it's easier. 3D is not only pure hell to program, but 2D has a thousand template games and engines to pick from, it's literally the definition of picking the safer choice. Nothing wrong with that, and it doesn't mean the games are worse, but new developers mainly chooses 2D because it's simpler to make.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

VFXVeteran won.

 

[Goro Majima]

Prices were a bit better like 7-8 years ago when publishers didn’t value their PC portfolio as much, they would treat their games like console games and had deep discounts early, and Steam would do flash sales.

Now publishers realized that PC games have quite a bit of demand as well as a long slow tail so prices can be certainly more expensive than their physical console counterpart. It’s not great but it likely reflects a healthier PC gaming community than ever.

 

[Bragr]

i'll use your words to respond to that VVV

Don't think this rule applies only to Total War, first party and third party AAA aren't safe from this either. What if someone likes creative games, unique stories or new concepts? Chances are they'll find those very safe "best stuff" AAA games extremely boring.

Combat, encounter design, progression, map and level design... they're all very similar, but also because thats a very common formula. Not just Crosscode, there are dozens of others that are similar too.

Do you really think they care about having a worthy opinion? They enjoy what they enjoy, and they don't enjoy what you're calling the "best stuff out there" thus don't play them. They prefer the new WoW expansion over Ghosts of Tsushima and thats really all there's is to it, don't try to make out as if your opinion is somehow worth more than theirs, or as if they're lost lambs who weren't shown "THE LIGHT OF THE TRUUUULY GREAT!"

What I said about Twilight and Total War are completely different things, I don't know what you are getting at there. My point is that Twilight is not well made, Total War on the other hand IS well-made. There is a reason why the revamps have worked as well as they have. My point was, PC exclusive games like Total War can't risk a massive budget and development time.

There are unique stories, concepts, and creativity in all types of games. It's not reserved for indie or AAA.

Did you just say that level design in Crosscode is like God of War? you are aware that God of War is a 3D action-adventure game with spacial awareness, angles and a billion other things 3D brings with it, and that Crosscode is a 2D game where the considerations are distance and lining up a line to shoot? What are you on about man, come on.

No, I don't think they care about having a worthy opinion. Clearly.

 

[teezzy]

1. PC is not a platform.
2. There was. 1998-2003 the most of the best PC games ever were produced then. Including Crysis.

1. What's the logic here? Genuinely curious.
2. Yeah... but you can still play most of these games - now most of 'em are available digitally, some even free if you know where to look.

What am I missing? Not tryna be a dolt at all. I love my computer.

 

[Danjin44]

Not for me, there is still lot of games PC either doesn’t get or gets them late, this year alone most of the game I bought are not on PC.

 

[Knot3D]

No.

So many of my older classics don't even work on Win10.
Freaking publishers refuse/are too lazy to fix them.
And even if you get them to work there's often something broken about them like graphics artefacts and lack of true analog thumbstick control ( just the 8 directions like wasd instead of true analog 360 degrees character movement ).

 

[Reindeer]

I can't get first party Nintendo games on PC, so

Nonsense, they are emulators for every Nintendo console there is, including Switch.

 

[deriks]

It's not like a competition or something

Playing on PC or a console is like you having an awesome girlfriend and your friend having an awesome girlfriend. One may do stuff that the other doesn't do, still they're both awesome, so everybody wins

 

[Rathalos]

We're pretty much passed the days where PC ports were afterthoughts, and now it's the best way to play every non exclusive. I've been gaming at 60Hz for about 10 years now, and 144hz for about 4 years and still most console games run at 30Hz, it's so hard swiching to console for exclusives and I always think to myself "imagine if this was on PC". Bloodborne with no frame pacing issues at 60-144Hz, God of War 3, Last of us 2 etc, it would be incredible.

Microsoft Game Pass has been huge for PC gaming, being able to play most Xbox exclusives for pennies has been great.