Support NeoGAF

[Hunnybun]

No one stated it won't get better, there certainly will be a leap. However it won't be as big. The proof is in the previous gens. PS1 to PS2 was a way bigger leap than PS2 to PS3. PS2 to PS3 was a way bigger leap than PS3 to PS4. However it wasn't as big as PS1 to PS2.

There's really no way to quantify the jumps. There's no delicate tool to objectively measure fidelity.

The best we can do is just try to honestly compare how amazed we were the first time we saw new gen graphics.

Hand on heart, when they showed that walkthrough of Nefarious City on the Ratchet State of Play, I was as genuinely impressed as I can remember being for anything from the PS4 generation.

The best the previous generation did was PGR3, which looked fantastic at the time, but it wasn't on some other plane of impressiveness.

The PS2 generation, there actually wasn't that much at the start tbh. Something like Ridge Racer V wasn't that amazing and definitely less so than PGR3 or Driveclub. Yes MGS2 was mindblowing but it came out a year later.

 

[Swift_Star]

Ratchet also is not a big jump... with some minor changes it could easily run on last gen

take the non-RT 60fps mode of Ratchet, half the framerate and it would easily run in a One X at almost the same settings
and the non RT 60fps mode is basically the same settings as the 30fps mode minus the Raytracing. So basically, the RT mode without Raytracing = One X quality
cut the resolution in half and you got your PS4 Pro version (~dynamic 1440p), cut that in half again and you got a base PS4 version (~dynamic 1080p)

So you're saying that if you go back in settings you can play games on old hardware? Well, who would have thunk? Lmao yeah you can play Bloodborne on the PS2 if you target that hardware. What a joke of a argument.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

he got a new tag and quit in protest.

Oh shit. I imagine he’ll be back under a new account eventually. His problem is his gimmick is so easy to spot he won’t last long. The guy was actually very knowledgeable but for some reason took a fit everyone someone dared mention a PS studios game was the best looking game they’d seen.

 

[Raven117]

I think this year has been great. In the first 6 months I got Spider-Man MM & Remastered, Demon’s Souls and Returnal. Within half a year I’ll be getting Elden Ring, Horizon FW and GT7. Its easily been the most packed first 1,5 years I’ve ever experienced with a console. And that’s not even taking lastgen games with patches and my backlog into account.

With PS4 I waited almost 1,5 years for 1 worthwhile game to arrive in the form of Bloodborne.

Remakes for the most part

what’s coming up looks great. But we aren’t there yet.

 

[Cryio]

The equation is simple. PS4 came out in 2013 for 400€ whereas the highest end gpu from Ati was 475€ (I bought mine at launch for that price, an MSI HD 7970) nowadays the ps5 still managed the same price range whereas the top GPU was "listed" for 999€ so we have a huge price gap, this suggests that of course to maintain that price range obviously they had to play cheap on components.

On the top of this we passed only resolution wise from 720p to 1080p and now from 1080p to 2160p (I.E. asking the impossible), plus people started being fussy with framerates, now everyone wants 60fps or even 120fps (excuse-me???). Then nVidia started introducing the final slash to the equation 2 years ago, the Ray tracing, the holy grail of 3d Graphic. Things with this are getting pretty serious, basically the most expensive 3d calculation of all time running on AMD which is still at rookie level of implementation via hardware. Basically the final result could not be more than different from this: totally shit! Last gen games polished with some make up. There is no next gen, stop calling it this way, PS4/Xone was the last real console gen. And now comes the business side of the equation. Nowadays what are important are sales and this translate in games published on every bloody platform on the earth : PC, previous gen, new gen, mobile, switch, stadia, coffe machines, calculators, Apple watches and the upcoming steam decks. How can you really focus in delivering a true next gen experience if you have to develop a game on thousands of different devices while maintaining a closer visual fidelity? They'd done better calling them PS4 pro plus and Xone Series X...oh I almost forgot, the genial Xbox Series S, another great move, thank you Microsoft

Highest end AMD* GPU at the time of PS4 and X1 launch was the R9 290X at 550$, some 40% faster than a 7970 GHz.

 

[SlimySnake]

So what about control looks mediocre?

I said this in my post you quoted.

Its destruction is its biggest asset but the lighting, textures, character models and overall visual quality puts it behind pretty much every great looking game last gen

I dont think Horizon looks a gen ahead of anything anymore after seeing Avatar, but it looks way better than Control in every department save for physics.

 

[Hobbygaming]

I don’t beleive it’s a case of “diminishing returns” or “not enough power. Both are just flat out false in my opinion.

We already have some really impressive looking games in terms of visuals, like Demon’s Souls, Ratchet and Clank and the new Horizon Forbidden West looks stunning even though it’s a cross-gen title.

It’s true to some extent that we haven’t really seen games which are “mind blowing” in terms of visuals, or “next-gen” but these terms have also become subjective in a lot of the discourse. What is next-gen and how do we define it? Some people think it’s a matter of upping texture-resolution and adding ray-tracing to everything which I think is absurd considering the modest (at best) increase in visuals ray-tracing offers. I would define next-gen as technologies we are seeing with UE5 such as micro-polygon rendering systems, high bandwidth streaming for geomtry and textures and Primitive/Mesh Shaders to significantly optimise graphics workloads, and either software or hardware based global illumination systems and hardware based ray-traced reflections and lighting, amongst other things such as significantly better charecter and facial animations. The issue is current gen engines don’t support such features and we will very likely have to wait for the second and third wave of games to see this, which would be around 2023 onwards.

I’d keep a look out for Hellblade 2 form the Xbox side of things and other titles (not really sure which others as I don’t game on Xbox). A lot of third party developers have stopped chasing bleeding edge visuals but Rockstar is a safe bet to bring a lot of next-gen “goodies”. Sony’s first party studios are a given, especially considering what they were able to achieve on the PS4 these past few years, easily amongst the best looking games we’ve ever seen.

We just need to be a little patient.

 

[buenoblue]

Thing is, second son was a great looking game for the time but I booted it up recently (it got a ps5 patch did you know?) And it looks ok but it defo does not look that great on my big ass tv. It's like those driveclub gifs the game doesn't actually look like that.

These new machines so far have exceeded my expectations and I feel great about the power they crammed in there for the money. And pretty much silent is a BIG deal aswell.

I feel like I'm playing on my 2070 super gaming PC (if not slightly better) and that cost 3 times as much to build and gets pretty noisy when pushed.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

Thing is, second son was a great looking game for the time but I booted it up recently (it got a ps5 patch did you know?) And it looks ok but it defo does not look that great on my big ass tv. It's like those driveclub gifs the game doesn't actually look like that.

These new machines so far have exceeded my expectations and I feel great about the power they crammed in there for the money. And pretty much silent is a BIG deal aswell.

I feel like I'm playing on my 2070 super gaming PC (if not slightly better) and that cost 3 times as much to build and gets pretty noisy when pushed.

It actually didn't get a PS5 patch. Infamous Second Son was updated for PS4 Pro and it has always let the user choose between frame rate or resolution as well as giving the user the ability to unlock the frame rate or lock it at 30fps.

The frame rate lock/unlock has been there since the OG PS4 days after they patched the game when people complained about bad frame pacing due to the unlocked frame rate on the original PS4.

So yeah, you can run it unlocked in resolution mode on PS5, but you could also do that on PS4 Pro as well.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

1.8 TFLOPS gave us TLOU II.. PS5 is 10 TFLOPS...

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

1.8 TFLOPS gave us TLOU II.. PS5 is 10 TFLOPS...

I think what people are saying is that TLOU2 looks really good as is and we don't need any more progression in terms of graphics, so therefore, pump all the extra resources into more frames.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

I think what people are saying is that TLOU2 looks really good as is and we don't need any more progression in terms of graphics, so therefore, pump all the extra resources into more frames.

No we need more progression for sure.....Imagine TLOU 3

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

No we need more progression for sure.....Imagine TLOU 3

I just want a PS5 port of TLOU2 that fixes the slow loading texture problems, takes it up to 4K, uses haptics and adaptive triggers and brings back some of the lighting effects from the Pre-release gameplay footage.

Is that too much to ask?

 

[NahaNago]

I think what people are saying is that TLOU2 looks really good as is and we don't need any more progression in terms of graphics, so therefore, pump all the extra resources into more frames.

After watching a few minutes of that video I still want more progression in graphics. The characters move clunky at times when traveling or fighting and the scenery looks off/fake many times in that video. That game looked good as the pinnacle of ps4 graphics but I expect more from Naughty Dog visually when it comes to ps5 games.

 

[Sosokrates]

I said this in my post you quoted.



I dont think Horizon looks a gen ahead of anything anymore after seeing Avatar, but it looks way better than Control in every department save for physics.

Its hard to make such conclusions without having HFW hands in, im sure there are better and worse textures in HFW, same goes for character models its an open world game afterall. The ray tracing stuff in control is superior to what was shown in HFW gameplay, I dont think theres been a case where rasterization has looked better then ray tracing effects.

 

[SlimySnake]

1.8 TFLOPS gave us TLOU II.. PS5 is 10 TFLOPS...

Good to see you here. Your next gen graphics thread is the thread i miss the most.

 

[Sosokrates]

I don’t beleive it’s a case of “diminishing returns” or “not enough power. Both are just flat out false in my opinion.

We already have some really impressive looking games in terms of visuals, like Demon’s Souls, Ratchet and Clank and the new Horizon Forbidden West looks stunning even though it’s a cross-gen title.

It’s true to some extent that we haven’t really seen games which are “mind blowing” in terms of visuals, or “next-gen” but these terms have also become subjective in a lot of the discourse. What is next-gen and how do we define it? Some people think it’s a matter of upping texture-resolution and adding ray-tracing to everything which I think is absurd considering the modest (at best) increase in visuals ray-tracing offers. I would define next-gen as technologies we are seeing with UE5 such as micro-polygon rendering systems, high bandwidth streaming for geomtry and textures and Primitive/Mesh Shaders to significantly optimise graphics workloads, and either software or hardware based global illumination systems and hardware based ray-traced reflections and lighting, amongst other things such as significantly better charecter and facial animations. The issue is current gen engines don’t support such features and we will very likely have to wait for the second and third wave of games to see this, which would be around 2023 onwards.

I’d keep a look out for Hellblade 2 form the Xbox side of things and other titles (not really sure which others as I don’t game on Xbox). A lot of third party developers have stopped chasing bleeding edge visuals but Rockstar is a safe bet to bring a lot of next-gen “goodies”. Sony’s first party studios are a given, especially considering what they were able to achieve on the PS4 these past few years, easily amongst the best looking games we’ve ever seen.

We just need to be a little patient.

Diminishing returns is not false.

Its hard to make log cabins look a lot better because they already look quite lifelike.

 

[Lupin25]

People need to learn…

It’s not truly next-gen until

Rockstar, Naughty Dog, and Kojima drop.

You know, the bastards with the biggest budgets in the industry…

 

[TheRedRiders]

Diminishing returns is not false.

Its hard to make log cabins look a lot better because they already look quite lifelike.

I’ll patiently wait for a next-gen cabin made up of 20 million polygons runnung on UE5….just you wait!

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Good to see you here. Your next gen graphics thread is the thread i miss the most.

Hey man, I'll start another here.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

People need to learn…

It’s not truly next-gen until

Rockstar, Naughty Dog, and Kojima drop.

You know, the bastards with the biggest budgets in the industry…

Insomniac and Guerilla also.

 

[Sosokrates]

People need to learn…

It’s not truly next-gen until

Rockstar, Naughty Dog, and Kojima drop.

You know, the bastards with the biggest budgets in the industry…

I wonder how starfield will fair, fallout 4 was my first "this is next gen" moment. It was a vast open world with material based shaders, the vaults looked very impressive.

 

[xPikYx]

People need to learn…

It’s not truly next-gen until

Rockstar, Naughty Dog, and Kojima drop.

You know, the bastards with the biggest budgets in the industry…

Sure, and don't forget cross gen version

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Here's a thread I started in April of 2020. It has various input from actual devs in the industry. Insomniac, Microsoft, Digital Foundry, DICE, Moon Studios etc.

RESETERA.COM GRAPHIC FIDELITY MEGATHREAD

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Sure, and don't forget cross gen version

?

 

[xPikYx]

?

How can you have next gen assets if the game is meant to run previous gen as well? Until games will be for both gens you won't see any next gen title. To do so You should develop the game twice, not going to happen until then

 

[Umbasaborne]

Yeah this definitely feels like 2014, and if anyone remembers 2014. Most of its big next gen games were either delayed to 2015 or broken

 

[buenoblue]

It actually didn't get a PS5 patch. Infamous Second Son was updated for PS4 Pro and it has always let the user choose between frame rate or resolution as well as giving the user the ability to unlock the frame rate or lock it at 30fps.

The frame rate lock/unlock has been there since the OG PS4 days after they patched the game when people complained about bad frame pacing due to the unlocked frame rate on the original PS4.

So yeah, you can run it unlocked in resolution mode on PS5, but you could also do that on PS4 Pro as well.

Yeah I don't know how this went under the radar but it did indeed get a ps5 patch. I think it was same time as ghosts of Tsushima so that took the limelight.
The prepatch version only runs 1080 60 whereas the new patch runs at 1800p 60 and features 3d audio and haptic feedback support.

 

[Falc67]

The weird thing is how the next gen PS5 spiderman game looks alot like infamous second son.the night shots are almost identical

No. Spider-Man 2 looks a generation apart from 2nd Son. I played second son recently. Miles-Morales PS5 shits all over it. Spidey 2 looks even better.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

How can you have next gen assets if the game is meant to run previous gen as well? Until games will be for both gens you won't see any next gen title. To do so You should develop the game twice, not going to happen until then

True.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

Yeah I don't know how this went under the radar but it did indeed get a ps5 patch. I think it was same time as ghosts of Tsushima so that took the limelight.
The prepatch version only runs 1080 60 whereas the new patch runs at 1800p 60 and features 3d audio and haptic feedback support.

Apparently you didn’t read anything I said. The game always had a high res mode since PS4 Pro and you’ve always been able to unlock the frame rate. Has nothing to do with PS5.

 

[H . R . 2]

4 really fellacious assumptions:

1. graphics can't be improved further/ FALSE of course they always can. there's no such thing as diminishing returns, unless software wise!
2. we can have 60fps AND astonishing visuals. FALSE except for a few titles such as R&C, where the hardware is pushed to the limits of the SOFTWARE and the results are great (but not as astonishing as some visual jumps in the previous generation), you cannot expect next-gen graphics
3. Increased resolution means increased asset fidelity, enhanced effects, better lighting, etc. FALSE, those phony 4K resolutions are an excuse to sell more TVs otherwise most gamers such as your truly are more than content with 1440 or DLSS
4. people have misconceptions about hardware; all the current advancements are happening in the software domain as the likes of AMD and Nvidia are realising they cannot keep shoving GPUs down customers' throats and ask for more a year later. DLSS2 and UE5 is just the tip of the iceberg of the changes to come


it really saddened me how people criticised The Order 1886 for its 30, albeit, smooth, FPS when it came out. there are always sacrifices to be made for great experiences. that game has THE BEST visuals I have ever seen in any game in my entire life, not despite but FOR the sacrifices they made in terms of FPS and resolution.

most people who whine about the so-called importance of FPS over fidelity are people who have had it made, not like my generation (29 years old). I remember not caring in the least about the fps of the game because I cared about immersion. I vividly remember playing Crysis 1 maxed out at 25-30fps because I was so immersed in its world and its visuals that I wouldn't even notice the framerate. but you can never NOT notice visuals unless they are limited to slight resolution changes. I am not by any means saying that a high FPS does not matter. it's in fact essential however it is equally important to understand the tradeoff

P.S. those who mock and insult graphics enthusiasts for their passion are mostly addicted online gamers who are gradually losing their eyesight and prefer ONLY higher framerates because their sight has been limited to movements .
As for those who constantly complain about hardware limitations, they do not realise how important the engine and its software integrations are to the development and the optimisation of a game. (e.g. CDPR's engine Vs. Unreal)

 

[Hobbygaming]

Let's revisit this thread after the TGA's lol

 

[sendit]

The game literally renders the surface of the planet you're living on, including virtually every human town, city, and metropolis and presents it all in nearly photo-real quality. There has never been anything like this before. The console version required deep optimisations that yielded strong performance benefits to the PC version as well, so we know the consoles will be able to do games of this scale and quality reliably moving forward. This game landed in the first year of the console's life time, and wasn't made by a first party studio.

You haven't seen anything yet.

Please stop. The micro details are horrible in Flight Sim and for good reason. It's a trade off.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

4 really fellacious assumptions:
1. graphics can't be improved further/ FALSE of course they always can. there's no such thing as diminishing returns, unless software wise!
2. we can have 60fps AND astonishing visuals. FALSE except for a few titles such as R&C, where the hardware is pushed to the limits of the SOFTWARE and the results are great (but not as astonishing as some visual jumps in the previous generation), you cannot expect next-gen graphics
3. Increased resolution means increased asset fidelity, enhanced effects, better lighting, etc. FALSE, those phony 4K resolutions are an excuse to sell more TVs otherwise most gamers such as your truly are more than content with 1440 or DLSS
4. people have misconceptions about hardware; all the current advancements are happening in the software domain as the likes of AMD and Nvidia are realising they cannot keep shoving GPUs down customers' throats and ask for more a year later. DLSS2 and UE5 is just the tip of the iceberg of the changes to come


it really saddened me how people criticised The Order 1886 for its 30, albeit, smooth, FPS when it came out. there are always sacrifices to be made for great experiences. that game has THE BEST visuals I have ever seen in any game in my entire life, not despite but FOR the sacrifices they made in terms of FPS and resolution.

most people who whine about the so-called importance of FPS over fidelity are people who have had it made, not like my generation (29 years old). I remember not caring in the least about the fps of the game because I cared about immersion. I vividly remember playing Crysis 1 maxed out at 25-30fps because I was so immersed in its world and its visuals that I wouldn't even notice the framerate. but you can never NOT notice visuals unless they are limited to slight resolution changes. I am not by any means saying that a high FPS does not matter. it's in fact essential however it is equally important to understand the tradeoff

P.S. those who mock and insult graphics enthusiasts for their passion are mostly addicted online gamers who are gradually losing their eyesight and prefer ONLY higher framerates because their sight has been limited to movements .
As for those who constantly complain about hardware limitations, they do not realise how important the engine and its software integrations are to the development and the optimisation of a game. (e.g. CDPR's engine Vs. Unreal)

Yes the Order 1886, looks PS5 level tbh.. just needs better character models, but yeah it looks CGI rendered.