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[mrcroket]

I already addressed that by stating the PS5 is 10% faster at raster than a 3060 and 2070. We know what the differential is and that's raster without including the tensor cores and RT cores which is ignoring 2/3rds of the 3060's hardware just because the PS5 is not advanced enough to have them. In reality people with a 3060 will use DLAA (best image quality solution in the planet) and DLSS, those tensor cores will be put to work and the PS5 can't come close to that IQ with FSR2. I don't even need to bring up RT, the PS5 is so weak its weaker than a 2060, a 3060 spanks it at RT.

Yep sure buddy

 

[EverydayBeast]

Console games on computers is great I think that goes without saying but it should be going on behind the scenes.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

Yep sure buddy

Kek even your picture proves me right. That port has widely been covered as one of the worst modern PC ports along with Jedi Survivor so bad Naughty Dog has to come out and say they developed it inhouse and didn't know wtf they were doing because they hadn't developed a PC port in some 30 something years.

The biggest weakness of tloup1 is how awful it is at utilizing the power of your GPU to the point where a 392 mm² monster like the 3070 (a GPU that all alone is far bigger than the entirety of the PS5's system on a chip let alone it's GPU) is only producing 36fps and being outperformed by the much smaller 276 mm² 3060. It's a disaster of a port. The 3070 is over 50% faster at raster than the 3060 btw which means its faster than the PS5 Pro is over the PS5.

 

[mrcroket]

Kek even your picture proves me right. That port has widely been covered as one of the worst modern PC ports along with Jedi Survivor so bad Naughty Dog has to come out and say they developed it inhouse and didn't know wtf they were doing because they hadn't developed a PC port in some 30 something years.

The biggest weakness of tloup1 is how awful it is at utilizing the power of your GPU to the point where a 392 mm² monster like the 3070 (a GPU that all alone is far bigger than the entirety of the PS5's system on a chip let alone it's GPU) is only producing 36fps and being outperformed by the much smaller 276 mm² 3060. It's a disaster of a port. The 3070 is over 50% faster at raster than the 3060 btw which means its faster than the PS5 Pro is over the PS5.

Nop, the 3070 runs like shit on this game because it only has 8gb of vram, and the 3060 just can't run this game faster. Besides, it's no use to have DLSS if you don't have memory to rescale to 4k (unless you want to use low quality textures), DLSS needs a good amount of memory.

But here's an example where 3060 underperform PS5 in a well optimized game.

 

[PixelatedBeast]

Problem with Sony is that they are showing they are willing to bend for PC gamers. Day one will happen one day.

If this was true, they wouldnt have made PSN accounts a requirement for singleplayer games...

 

[Gaiff]

Yep sure buddy

Not that I agree with what the other guy is saying but no one arguing in good faith will post benchmarks of this game to prove a point.

Also, the PS5 is quite a bit below max settings in TLOU.

 

[IDWhite]

I already addressed that by stating the PS5 is 10% faster at raster than a 3060 and 2070. We know what the differential is and that's raster without including the tensor cores and RT cores which is ignoring 2/3rds of the 3060's hardware just because the PS5 is not advanced enough to have them. In reality people with a 3060 will use DLAA (best image quality solution in the planet) and DLSS, those tensor cores will be put to work and the PS5 can't come close to that IQ with FSR2. I don't even need to bring up RT, the PS5 is so weak its weaker than a 2060, a 3060 spanks it at RT.

You have RT and AI dedicated hardware on mid range Nvidia GPUs with VRAM and bandwidth constrains. It doesn't make a difference in favor when you spend dozens of cycles waiting for data to arrive from memory or even slow mass storage units. Yes of course you can still process more things quickly with the data on cache, but you are strictly limited to those fixed functions.

The big Nvidia advantage on RT when RTX 2000 launched was because the biggest adoption on software side for his library. They are building the RT technology since 2018, two years before AMD comes whit his proper solution. And the fact that they build specific hardware functions to BVH traversal and some other things gives them the performance advantage on RT workloads that uses this data structure. Today that big advantage is over, at least when we consider only the 2000 series in comparison to Ps5 RT. And that's because devs have managed to do some things on the AMD consoles GPUs that you cannot make with the fixed hardware functions on Nvidia RTX GPUs, like implementing custom data structures, custom traversal functions, direct access to BLAS leaf triangles and the use of async compute for some of those task.

As far as image reconstruction goes, FSR 2 isn't that far off from what DLSS 2 (RTX 2000 series) can do, so really the big difference in this technology is that they have DLSS 3 on the RTX 4000 series.

Of course RTX 4000 series have much more andvanced RT and AI, and we cannot compare a 4060 and up with Ps5 RT and AI performace. But that advantage is going to be over with Ps5 pro.

 

[Gaiff]

As far as image reconstruction goes, FSR 2 isn't that far off from what DLSS 2 (RTX 2000 series) can do, so really the big difference in this technology is that they have DLSS 3 on the RTX 4000 series.

 

[mrcroket]

Not that I agree with what the other guy is saying but no one arguing in good faith will post benchmarks of this game to prove a point.

Also, the PS5 is quite a bit below max settings in TLOU.

It was a bait tbh, not the horizon one though.

 

[Braag]

I heard NASA has ordered 4 PS5 Pro consoles to run all their computing needs on. AMD's tech is way ahead of anything some lousy Nvidia tech can do.
It's over PC bros, buy a PS5 now!

 

[tusharngf]

Steam users be like lol

 

[Danknugz]

1) Glide was the first low-level graphics API on PC.

Direct3D replaced it and yeah, that's a high-level API (until DX12 came out).

2) PS2 had 32MB of RDRAM and 4MB of ultra-fast eDRAM (48 GB/s).

You also have to remember that back then Voodoo 2 was a 15W TDP part:

3dfx Voodoo2 12 MB Specs

3dfx SST2, 90 MHz, 1 Pixel Shaders, 0 Vertex Shaders, 2 TMUs, 1 ROPs, 12 MB EDO, 90 MHz, 192 bit

www.techpowerup.com

There is really no comparison with RTX 4090 (450W TDP).

How do you expect consoles to perform better than high-wattage PCs?

PCs started a TDP arms race back in 2006-2007, GPUs didn't always have monstrous coolers with 2-3 fans.

3) The first FPS games on PC didn't have very high framerates, there was no PCMR meme back then.

Back in the 90s 35 fps was considered acceptable... let alone the horribly low tickrate to accommodate dial-up connections, there was no lag compensation either.

Comparison Frame rates in WinQuake and GLQuake

everything you say is correct but my point was less about hardware, more about the development support and people willing to deal with windows 9x / xp as a platform because it was so bloated and difficult to get good performance. quake series was an exception because that was id software in its legendary phase where they developed for linux alongside with performance parity.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

Nop, the 3070 runs like shit on this game because it only has 8gb of vram, and the 3060 just can't run this game faster. Besides, it's no use to have DLSS if you don't have memory to rescale to 4k (unless you want to use low quality textures), DLSS needs a good amount of memory.

But here's an example where 3060 underperform PS5 in a well optimized game.

That's max settings 1440p... The PS5 does not run any game at max not even Horizon. That and your image proves me right considering the 3070 performs at 2080ti level (which drastically outperforms the PS5 considering the 2080ti is the 2090 of the 20 series it's just that at the time Nvidia only reserved the xx90 name for dual GPU cards like the 690), the PS5 is more around 2070/ 2070 Super level depending on the game. And btw that's despite the 2080ti having 11GB of VRAM vs the 8GB of the 3070.

 

[GigaBowser]

pc gamers want hellidivers elden ring balders gate dont care much bout no cinematic gaming i love cinermatic graphics im sorry my friends

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Why dont I see any ps5 owners angry about the fact that Sony cares more about PC lately than actually trying to take full advantage of the PS5 and delivering on the promises that they were making in 2020 about what the PS5 and it's i/o system could mean for next gen games??

It's crazy but gamers have been so trained not to appear "entitled" if god Forbidden we show dissent regarding the shift away from exclusivesl content and into the "we are all one" multiplat future. I remember back in 2021 when MS decided to be day and date with PC releases how swiftly everyone was told to shut up by both gamers (PC of course) and the media. But if you are someone who only games on console, how has the this generation been? What's in it for us??

Nothing apparently. Sony hasn't delivered any true next gen games. The SSD has been underutilized by first party studios and we've had to watch Sony courting PC owners and delivering superior ports, with no post-PC releases getting their console versions upgraded- for example God of War 2018 and Days Gone on ps5 are still just the ps4 versions ...you would think Sony wouldnt want to piss off the people who bought a ps5 and would at least roll over a couple upgrades found in the PC version of those games into the ps5 versions but nope ...and the reason? Console gamers have become so docile and accepting of whatever scraps Sony may decide to throw our way ...it's just pathetic imo...things have swung so far away from us that nobody even thinks "hey I remember a time when these companies used to have to carer to their OWN original audience that I should probably be annoyed by this situation"

Not only do we have to pay more money for worse versions of games, we have to pay $80 a year just to be able to play games ONLINE! Sony and MS don't even have to have a cheap tier for people who just want online and not the "free games".

I seem to be one of the only people on this site who noticed the negative shift that has been happening THIS GEN on console because nobody here talks about this.

 

[Zathalus]

Nop, the 3070 runs like shit on this game because it only has 8gb of vram, and the 3060 just can't run this game faster. Besides, it's no use to have DLSS if you don't have memory to rescale to 4k (unless you want to use low quality textures), DLSS needs a good amount of memory.

But here's an example where 3060 underperform PS5 in a well optimized game.

Max settings + higher resolution compared to the PS5 version. Drop those to be equivalent and the 3060 would be quite a bit faster.

Not as fast as a PS5 mind you, but closer.

 

[Fabieter]

I dont believe they actually think this is gonna work. There is just no way.

 

[Rivdoric]

I can wait 2 years to release them on PC no problem.
The difference is so big even 5 years would be okay.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Why dont I see any ps5 owners angry about the fact that Sony cares more about PC lately than actually trying to take full advantage of the PS5 and delivering on the promises that they were making in 2020 about what the PS5 and it's i/o system could mean for next gen games??

I see them everywhere. Even on steam forums you'll see people demanding sony to add denuvo to their games for no other reason than to piss pc players off. Pure brainrot if you ask me.

 

[Pantz]

I really want a meme of Phil Spencer whispering "day one PC" into someone's ear

 

[IDWhite]

Why dont I see any ps5 owners angry about the fact that Sony cares more about PC lately than actually trying to take full advantage of the PS5 and delivering on the promises that they were making in 2020 about what the PS5 and it's i/o system could mean for next gen games??

It's crazy but gamers have been so trained not to appear "entitled" if god Forbidden we show dissent regarding the shift away from exclusivesl content and into the "we are all one" multiplat future. I remember back in 2021 when MS decided to be day and date with PC releases how swiftly everyone was told to shut up by both gamers (PC of course) and the media. But if you are someone who only games on console, how has the this generation been? What's in it for us??

Nothing apparently. Sony hasn't delivered any true next gen games. The SSD has been underutilized by first party studios and we've had to watch Sony courting PC owners and delivering superior ports, with no post-PC releases getting their console versions upgraded- for example God of War 2018 and Days Gone on ps5 are still just the ps4 versions ...you would think Sony wouldnt want to piss off the people who bought a ps5 and would at least roll over a couple upgrades found in the PC version of those games into the ps5 versions but nope ...and the reason? Console gamers have become so docile and accepting of whatever scraps Sony may decide to throw our way ...it's just pathetic imo...things have swung so far away from us that nobody even thinks "hey I remember a time when these companies used to have to carer to their OWN original audience that I should probably be annoyed by this situation"

Not only do we have to pay more money for worse versions of games, we have to pay $80 a year just to be able to play games ONLINE! Sony and MS don't even have to have a cheap tier for people who just want online and not the "free games".

I seem to be one of the only people on this site who noticed the negative shift that has been happening THIS GEN on console because nobody here talks about this.

You are not the only one. Many people here and myself wrote in other threads to say the same thing as you.

The thing is that this actual SIE is not the same as the SCE years ago. Their focus on video game industry since the born of the PS platform was to engineer a system dedicated to build and run games that offer high quality exclusive experiences. Now its efforts are on diversifying the business and offering similar experiences on other systems to attract more users to its platform. And by making that they can't build and create experiences centered on one particular hardware because otherwise they are limiting access to these experiences for many people with platforms that do not have the same hardware features.

It's sad but it's true that in many games they are making better use of PC hardware than that of their own console. And that is because adding a RT feature on PC like RT shadows on their graphics pipeline is it by far more easy than making a completely new engine to take full advantage of the dedicated hardware on Ps5.

I'm still waiting for the implementation of a tool that allows creating custom HRTF profiles for 3D audio. That and many other things that I'm still waiting for because they mentioned them, but they will probably never arrive.

 

[ThatOneGrunt]

lol. Yeah I’m good Sony.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

I seem to be one of the only people on this site who noticed the negative shift that has been happening THIS GEN on console because nobody here talks about this.

That’s because PS5 owners much like the Xbox owners are migrating over here; You’ve been under a rock this entire time my man.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Why dont I see any ps5 owners angry about the fact that Sony cares more about PC lately than actually trying to take full advantage of the PS5 and delivering on the promises that they were making in 2020 about what the PS5 and it's i/o system could mean for next gen games??

It's crazy but gamers have been so trained not to appear "entitled" if god Forbidden we show dissent regarding the shift away from exclusivesl content and into the "we are all one" multiplat future. I remember back in 2021 when MS decided to be day and date with PC releases how swiftly everyone was told to shut up by both gamers (PC of course) and the media. But if you are someone who only games on console, how has the this generation been? What's in it for us??

Nothing apparently. Sony hasn't delivered any true next gen games. The SSD has been underutilized by first party studios and we've had to watch Sony courting PC owners and delivering superior ports, with no post-PC releases getting their console versions upgraded- for example God of War 2018 and Days Gone on ps5 are still just the ps4 versions ...you would think Sony wouldnt want to piss off the people who bought a ps5 and would at least roll over a couple upgrades found in the PC version of those games into the ps5 versions but nope ...and the reason? Console gamers have become so docile and accepting of whatever scraps Sony may decide to throw our way ...it's just pathetic imo...things have swung so far away from us that nobody even thinks "hey I remember a time when these companies used to have to carer to their OWN original audience that I should probably be annoyed by this situation"

Not only do we have to pay more money for worse versions of games, we have to pay $80 a year just to be able to play games ONLINE! Sony and MS don't even have to have a cheap tier for people who just want online and not the "free games".

I seem to be one of the only people on this site who noticed the negative shift that has been happening THIS GEN on console because nobody here talks about this.

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/

Here’s a link to start figuring out your PC build.

 

[Clear]

I dont believe they actually think this is gonna work. There is just no way.

There seems to be this weird idea that just because someone has a gaming-specced PC they are going to maintain it forever. As in keep upgrading to the latest specced hardware every few years as they get older.

PC gamers underestimate the convenience and simplicity aspect of consoles and how that fits in with different, often more hectic lifestyles.

The truth is that even 10 year old PC's are more than good enough for basic productivity; Most people won't feel the need to upgrade for anything other than gaming, and that's getting increasingly expensive especially if you aren't taking the time to research and future proof your purchases.

Point I'm getting at is the value proposition of PC gaming versus console gaming shifts depending on where you are and what you're doing in life. So assuming that nobody is ever going to switch back is simply not the case. And as mobile devices grow in power I'd expect the effect to increase in the years to come back.

 

[Gaiff]

Lots of people angry about discovering that Sony doesn’t particularly care about its loyal customers and is far more interested in money.

 

[Guilty_AI]

The truth is that even 10 year old PC's are more than good enough for basic productivity;

Having used those myself, i have to respectfully disagree. Good CPU + plenty of RAM + SSD make a lot of difference in terms of quality of life for basic use.

 

[Clear]

Having used those myself, i have to respectfully disagree. Good CPU + plenty of RAM + SSD make a lot of difference in terms of quality of life for basic use.

SSD's have been around a long time and are pretty much the least effort internal upgrade, and I'm sorry but an i7-3770 from 2012 is still very usable.
So much depends on the software environment too, I hate to say it but I think a lot of the time people could get a good chunk of their old-systems performance back by simply re-installing their OS.

 

[Guilty_AI]

SSD's have been around a long time and are pretty much the least effort internal upgrade, and I'm sorry but an i7-3770 from 2012 is still very usable.
So much depends on the software environment too, I hate to say it but I think a lot of the time people could get a good chunk of their old-systems performance back by simply re-installing their OS.

I have a laptop with a i7 4500 and no, it isn't. SSDs were around but not as common as they are today, it wasn't unusual to skip them altogether or get models with limited storage just for the OS. I re-installed the OS several times and even used linux which is far more lightweight than windows, still can't hold a candle to a modern PC with a modern i3 or i5 model, windows 10/11 and everything.

In fact i'm using it right now, running a wine program on the background, that is already enough to make the browser all stuttery as i post this.

 

[Negotiator]

I've been saying this for years, Sony needs to revive PS3 classics:

It’s Time for Sony to Bring Back Killzone and Resistance - IGN

Sony is in the middle of an FPS crisis, but bringing back two much-loved PlayStation shooters could easily be the solution.

www.ign.com

You shouldn't put all your (FPS) eggs in one basket (CoD)...

 

[Physiognomonics]

When you announce a strategy like this it often means the reverse is actually happening right now.

 

[64bitmodels]

I guess you're gonna say on your death bed "I wish I wasted more of my life waiting for things longer"

I don't think I'm going to be dying anytime soon. At least not so soon to the point where waiting a 1-2 year delay on a Video game is a risky move.

If you want to make that happen though you can always come and murder me!

 

[64bitmodels]

Yep. People underestimate this aspect. PC gaming can be awesome, but it has a looooot of cons as well. It's not all a bed of roses.

• Pay 300% more costs to build a gaming PC.
• Wait for 2-3 years to get a PS game
• Deal with bad ports when the games eventually come
• It's never as plug-and-play as it is with consoles

cap!!! that's mostly cap!!!




1. 300% more costs???? bro where'd you get that from??

300% more than a PS5 would be 1350 dollars, and an average PC capable of meeting the PS5 spec wise would be in the realm of 750-900 dollars. At most you're spending like 2x. Whether that's worth it is a question for the buyer to answer. Again if it were so expensive so many people wouldn't be gaming here.

2. 2-3 years to get a PS game. Helldivers 2 did come out same day did it not? and the window's shortening w most titles...

3. Bad ports. The ports are fine most of the time- Helldivers 2, Spiderman Miles Morales and God of War 2018 all play great on my PC. Even if they're terrible at launch they end up doing better later on. Isn't it normal to wait a couple of months for a game to be at its best state even on consoles? why is that all of a sudden a specially negative trait of PC?

4. Never as plug-and-play. It's plug and play enough for 140 million Steam users.

There are a lot more pros than you listed and even some cons you refused to touch upon- which really says to me that you are just not qualified enough on PC gaming to speak about it

 

[VitoNotVito]

I don't think I'm going to be dying anytime soon. At least not so soon to the point where waiting a 1-2 year delay on a Video game is a risky move.

If you want to make that happen though you can always come and murder me!

You will day one day. Doesn’t matter how long you’ll live, the one thing you can’t gain or have more is time.
if there’s anything anyone ever regrets it’s they didn’t use their time better

 

[Tarin02543]

SSD's have been around a long time and are pretty much the least effort internal upgrade, and I'm sorry but an i7-3770 from 2012 is still very usable.
So much depends on the software environment too, I hate to say it but I think a lot of the time people could get a good chunk of their old-systems performance back by simply re-installing their OS.

Ran a 3770 for ten years, fantastic CPU. Elden Ring was its Waterloo so I’m on a 12100 now.