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Star Citizen Pre-Alpha: Hangar Module

Most of the people pledging are guys who played space sims during the late 90's and are now well into their mid-thirties. They are mostly working in IT-related fields and earn quite a lot on average. That's why they are able to spend $300 on a game because they are so desperate for another space sim that might be able to fulfill their dreams.

You also have the bandwagon effect: once a lot of people jumped on it and you can be sure something gets delivered, it's easier for you to make a pledge because you know you'll get something in return.

"Can I get an objective explanation for how this game got to $42 million? No private/angel investors at all? All just fans who've been thirsty for a grand PC space game for all these years? If so, how was it possible for this many people who were interested? "


Yes, all crowdfunded. And there's this many people who are interested because there hasn't been a space sim that wasn't fairly low budget (relative to other games in their period) in a very long time. They've also kept crowd funding open since the initial pitch and more and more people have decided to throw in 40-50$ and some who had already pledged before have added on to their pledge with more money. It adds up.

It also bears mentioning that the space sim genre used to be huge. It wasn't some cult/niche thing. Wing Commander 3 and 4 had the biggest budgets to date when they were released and they sold very well. While it's a shame that Freespace 2 bombed, the audience didn't disintegrate or anything.

Thank you. I didn't know these games used to be the biggest thing in the 90s. The people being in more lucrative businesses who used to be fans makes sense. I understand now that this is considered the saviour for the genre, like how a few of adventure game crowdfunded projects have been for that field (Broken Age, Broken Sword 5, Dreamfall Chapters) or computer RPGs (Torment: Tides of Numenara, Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland 2).

People must have seen that now that the middlemen are gone and there was no need to cater to the mainstream audience that led to these games vanishing, they are willing to spend money on bringing back this genre in a big way. At least that's what I gather from Alec Meer's RPS post on Elite Dangerous:

x522.jpg

I come and go on old franchises and old ideas being resurrected by rich old men for rather less rich and old men and women. Sometimes it seems like a roadblock to fresh invention, other times it seems like returning to roads that games were forcibly and unfairly turned away from as forces of marketing and demographic-chasing decided they weren’t suitably commercially viable. For example: space sims didn’t all but die out because the possibilities were exhausted. Though there have always been survivors, they all but died out because they required huge budgets to pull off well, but could not command the sort of easily advertised-at mainstream audience required to earn their keep. What remained turned inwards, servicing the very particular demands of a passionate few, and making themselves all the more inaccessible to those who were interested but not quite so fervent about it.

The comeback, thanks to the removal of almost all middlemen and the ability to engage directly with an audience large enough but spread far and wide, is something I find incredibly exciting. After having barely touched space games for years, I now find myself owning a £120 joystick and obsessed with Elite 4.

elite2.jpg


I peer back into the mist of early teenage years stranded in the countryside with a 486 as almost my only companion, and space games were so important to me. Elite: Frontier, TIE Fighter and X-Wing, Privateer… Then, around 1997, it stopped, or at least seemed to. Part of that was me, as the earliest stages of an alcohol-orientated social life flickered into being, and part of that was the genre becoming less exciting and more elaborate – though it meant I missed out on some of greats, such as Freespace, I-War and the last worthwhile Lucasarts efforts.

Look to the turn of the century and the writing’s on the wall. Plenty of space games, yes, but what a mess: a split between poorly-received licensed drek and deep-dive sims with narrow appeal. Where’s the seat of the pants stuff? Where’s the fantasy of it all? Where’s the game that makes me want to stick a cardboard overlay on my keyboard, or buy a new joystick? Where’s the space game that matches the thrill and escapism of the first-person shooters of the time? Years later still, I dallied with Freelancer, but much as I liked it, somehow it wasn’t quite there.
 

elseanio

Member
I'm not sure what you mean about a simple flight mode.

If your ship isn't included in the first version of the module, you'll get access to an implemented ship until it's patched in.

I meant just being able to fly around the maps without having to partake in multiplayer dog fighting.

Thanks for the info on the temporary ship access, didn't know that!
 

Zabojnik

Member
I meant just being able to fly around the maps without having to partake in multiplayer dog fighting.

Pretty sure you'll be able to do that in the dogfighting module in some fashion or another. Not sure how big and interesting for casual exploring these maps are going to be, since they'll likely be just a section of what would otherwise be considered a full- fledged system (of which more than a hundred are allegedly in the works).
 
Also the game started selling Pay to Win stuff like currency and ships to people who had backed, which meant they started getting the whales who want their own cruiser.

People will say it's not Pay to Win because you can get all that stuff through play, and then fail to say how that's different from Pay to Win.
 

epmode

Member
Also the game started selling Pay to Win stuff like currency and ships to people who had backed, which meant they started getting the whales who want their own cruiser.

People will say it's not Pay to Win because you can get all that stuff through play, and then fail to say how that's different from Pay to Win.

You will be able to purchase currency in the full game so there's obviously a pay to win element regardless of what Chris Roberts claims. The question is how significant the advantage will be.

CIG is planning to implement a monthly or daily limit on currency purchases but that's meaningless without knowing the limit. I also wonder about the exchange rate. As it is now, $15 only gives you enough in-game money to buy 2-3 low end weapons or a silly hangar buggy. If that carries into the full game, currency purchases will only make sense for the turbo-whales.

Oh, and it's possible that the best items require more than straight currency. Quest completion or required faction status, etc.

I'd prefer that they only offer cosmetic items via real money purchases. Dota and Path of Exile have it right.
 

Zabojnik

Member
People will say it's not Pay to Win because you can get all that stuff through play, and then fail to say how that's different from Pay to Win.

Personally, I'm in the "I don't really give a shit about all that" camp. I was always able to 'make my own fun' in past MMO-type games, regardless of the subscription/F2P/P2W model they used. I reckon it won't be any different here. Other than that, I have complete trust in CR. No matter which way they go about it, some people will like it, some won't. At the end of the day, it's a business as much as it is a passion project.
 

Daedardus

Member
They actually need some source of monthly income to sustains the thousands of players playing the persistent universe. CR has said they don't want to introduce a subscription as that would scare of newcomers, so they have no choice but to introduce a microtransaction model.

However, if you don't like it, you'll have to choice of setting up your own server to play with your friends or clan or even a larger community. That way you can dictate yourself how the expenses are attributed for, with the downside of having fewer people playing of course. If that can be considered a downside, seeing as they'll make use of instancing.
 

Blizzard

Banned
They actually need some source of monthly income to sustains the thousands of players playing the persistent universe. CR has said they don't want to introduce a subscription as that would scare of newcomers, so they have no choice but to introduce a microtransaction model.
Maybe they can allocate a couple of the 42 million towards server support. ;p (Yes, I'm ignorant of server costs, so it may actually take 20 million to maintain some servers for a year and I'm just not aware of it)

One thing to point out is that if the game is done well and maintained well, people won't just stop buying it as soon as it is released. Minecraft is an extreme case, but Minecraft has continued to produce a daily income of over $100,000 on average, if I recall correctly. It may even be way over that, but the stats seem to be down now and I can't check.

Point is, they might actually be able to use continued sales to finance servers, especially with such huge funding to begin with.

Granted, even with such a crazy income on Minecraft, I almost seem to recall them introduced a subscription model to pay for certain special (optional) servers there as well, so maybe there's some sort of aversion to using sales to finance servers in general due to accounting magic I'm unaware of.
 

Daedardus

Member
Servers can cost quite a lot of money to maintain when they need to support MMO's. If I recall correctly, $3-5 dollar of the $15 monthly subscription went to server costs. This is on top of continued development of the game.

The problem with funding servers based on new sales is that the use of the servers are unrelated to new sales. A game may get few new users but still needs to support many veterans playing hundreds of hours each month. This why they loosely couple the server income to the server use. This is a more (keyword: more) honest system for everyone involved.

Minecraft only needs to support servers for data transfers, with the actual multiplayer handled by player managed hosting. Minecraft server hosting is a big business with a revenue of millions of dollars each year.
 

KKRT00

Member
Maybe they can allocate a couple of the 42 million towards server support. ;p (Yes, I'm ignorant of server costs, so it may actually take 20 million to maintain some servers for a year and I'm just not aware of it)

Its not only about maintaining servers, they want to develop game for years and release content patches every few weeks after launch.

---
People will say it's not Pay to Win because you can get all that stuff through play, and then fail to say how that's different from Pay to Win.

Its very simple, it does not buy You advantage and in this game You cant respawn immediately and losing a ship cant be costly. Maybe its not as hardcore as EVE in terms of death penalty, but its also less focused on numerical power.
Check EVE, its a game where You can buy ISK, but buying ISK does not give You power.
 

-tetsuo-

Unlimited Capacity
Also the game started selling Pay to Win stuff like currency and ships to people who had backed, which meant they started getting the whales who want their own cruiser.

People will say it's not Pay to Win because you can get all that stuff through play, and then fail to say how that's different from Pay to Win.

Private servers will help. Arena mode as well.
 

phoenixyz

Member
However, if you don't like it, you'll have to choice of setting up your own server to play with your friends or clan or even a larger community.
I am beginning to doubt that. They said in WMH that you will not be able to set up your own PU, as they want people to play in theirs. I would reckon that private servers will be restricted to stuff like dog fighting and co-op missions.
 

KKRT00

Member
Not exactly. You can buy a PLEX (30 days of subcription time) but not ISK directly. CCP keeps a stockpile of PLEX that they use to control inflation.

I didnt mean that You can buy it directly from CCP, but You can buy it easily or convert PLEX to ISK. Still, it does not give You any advantage over other players, which was point of my post :)
 
Looks like the TIME magazine doesn't like SC:

http://time.com/61431/check-out-12-minutes-of-star-citizen-not-being-the-game-youll-play/

And the author is also not very fond of the fans, who attended the DFM presentation:

The apparently high school-age audience (that mistook a space sim demo for a sporting event where dimwits shout half-intelligbly) didn’t seem to mind.

I have no problem with someone disliking space sims or space combat games.

But misrepresenting Star Citizen with uninformed information in something as influential as TIME?

Sigh. Lazy writer. Kind of instulting.

BTW, game is pre-alpha. Its engine is not even complete (Much of Cryengine is being rewritten or added on to during dev).
 

Faith

Member
I hope they will switch to CryEngine 4. It's so much better than 3, they changed everything. Homefront 2 is going to look out of this world.
 
Saying that being able to buy ships in advance and also pay real money to convert into game money does not give you an advantage is pretty silly. Of course it gives you an advantage. If I win the lottery I have an advantage in life over someone who works at McDonalds, even if they are able to "play" work and earn the same amount over 30 years.

The fact is, getting money up front, or ships, or whatever, is going to give someone a huge advantage.

There are 2 types of pay to win:

Pay to Win Normal: Being able to buy stuff that regular players can't get.
Pay to Win Lite: Being able to buy stuff that regular players can earn, but you get it quicker and with less effort.

Star Citizen is the latter, but it's still a form of paying to win (i.e. have some sort of advantage). An example of a game that is not pay to win as much is Guild Wars 2, where purchases are mostly cosmetic in nature. I would fully support being able to buy different skins and such in SC, but I don't like the idea of buying in-game money for real life cash.

Having said that, I have pledged for the game and will enjoy playing it. But I don't need to lie to myself that it's still Pay To Win Lite.
 
I hope they will switch to CryEngine 4. It's so much better than 3, they changed everything. Homefront 2 is going to look out of this world.

What information has been released on CryEngine 4? I'm not sure if I have seen much so far.

Just so you guys know, this game will always probably use the latest version of Cryengine (it no longer has monikers like 3 or 4, rather just feature sets).

This is using the post Ryse engine currently for example. They will in all likelihood keep updating the renderer along with Crytek updating it.

There has been no concrete details as to what features will be in the post-Ryse Cryengine. They have hinted at switching to a post SSR reflection system (more accurate) also hints to stuff like voxel based light sources for AO and area lighting. BUt who reall yknows
 

KKRT00

Member
I hope they will switch to CryEngine 4. It's so much better than 3, they changed everything. Homefront 2 is going to look out of this world.

They are using the newest iterations of CryEngine and they also write custom code for it where CryEngine does not fit.

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Saying that being able to buy ships in advance and also pay real money to convert into game money does not give you an advantage is pretty silly. Of course it gives you an advantage. If I win the lottery I have an advantage in life over someone who works at McDonalds, even if they are able to "play" work and earn the same amount over 30 years.

My almost 4 years of experience in EVE, almost solely focused on PVP, says that buying ISK does not give any advantage over other players.
Same will apply to Star Citizen.
 

MrBig

Member
Sure is a lot of FUD going around...

It's just called CryEngine. http://cryengine.com/ There is no more 3, 4 etc.

Ryse used it and the graphics is really impressive.

CIG is implementing new cryengine code as well as building it up themselves, one part of which is the PBR rendering engine from the new Cryengine/Ryse. That will be used in the DFM.
 
I think CR said they actually plan on having more graphics engineers or graphics programmer or whatever their called who builds an engine than Crytek does. Correct me if I'm wrong but could this mean they could be chugging out graphical features from their own side than Crytek does for their own engine? For example, would a feature like PBR come out on the CIG side instead of waiting for Crytek to implement it for everybody using their engine?
 

KKRT00

Member
I think CR said they actually plan on having more graphics engineers or graphics programmer or whatever their called who builds an engine than Crytek does. Correct me if I'm wrong but could this mean they could be chugging out graphical features from their own side than Crytek does for their own engine? For example, would a feature like PBR come out on the CIG side instead of waiting for Crytek to implement it for everybody using their engine?
PBR is Crytek's tech in CryEngine, but yes they can write additional stuff into CryEngine. For example they are working on volumetric particles that are not in CryEngine packet.

And yeah, CR said that they are aiming at having more graphics engineers than Crytek currently has.
 
PBR is Crytek's tech in CryEngine, but yes they can write additional stuff into CryEngine. For example they are working on volumetric particles that are not in CryEngine packet.

And yeah, CR said that they are aiming at having more graphics engineers than Crytek currently has.

MbdramQ.gif
 
Also the game started selling Pay to Win stuff like currency and ships to people who had backed, which meant they started getting the whales who want their own cruiser.

People will say it's not Pay to Win because you can get all that stuff through play, and then fail to say how that's different from Pay to Win.

People just have different definitions of pay to win. I'm just not a fan of needless grinding and if I have to spend hours upon hours trying to tweak out one ship much less several, then there's a problem.
 

Zabojnik

Member
Looking forward to that ejecting / zero G (+ other functionality they were unable to show at the event) video CR hinted at in some of the interviews. Maybe we'll get to see something today on WH.

Also, if anyone's still on the fence about pledging for the game ... only 490 alpha slots are left.
 

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
People just have different definitions of pay to win. I'm just not a fan of needless grinding and if I have to spend hours upon hours trying to tweak out one ship much less several, then there's a problem.

I don't think the term "grinding" will be as applicable to this game as it is to other MMOs. In WoW, "grinding" involves going back to the same field and mindlessly clicking on the same basic enemy for hours. In this game, "grinding" will involve flying missions you've picked up on the mission computer and having fun going on patrols, flying cargo and shooting down pirates.
 

MrBig

Member
I don't think the term "grinding" will be as applicable to this game as it is to other MMOs. In WoW, "grinding" involves going back to the same field and mindlessly clicking on the same basic enemy for hours. In this game, "grinding" will involve flying missions you've picked up on the mission computer and having fun going on patrols, flying cargo and shooting down pirates.

I believe that if playing the game is considered a chore and getting worthless virtual items in a game is all it has to offer, something is very very wrong. That whole concept of grinding has baffled me: if the game isn't fun to play it's not a good game.
 

-tetsuo-

Unlimited Capacity
I believe that if playing the game is considered a chore and getting worthless virtual items in a game is all it has to offer, something is very very wrong. The whole concept of grinding has baffled me: if the game isn't fun to play it's not a good game.

You would be shocked to know how much people love grinding. I have a friend who has played Reaper of Souls every day for at least 8 hours since it has released. The same person quit Guild Wars 2 at lvl 30 because there wasn't any grind in the game at that point.
 

Mudcrab

Member
My almost 4 years of experience in EVE, almost solely focused on PVP, says that buying ISK does not give any advantage over other players.
Same will apply to Star Citizen.

Exactly. Some dude using PLEX to buy his ship doesn't mean it won't blow up just as easily as any other ship.
 

_woLf

Member
This alpha thing makes no sense. I think.

If I already gave money from Kickstarter, I'm guaranteed an alpha slot, right? They're just cutting off that part of the deal for new pledges?
 

Tommyhawk

Member
This alpha thing makes no sense. I think.

If I already gave money from Kickstarter, I'm guaranteed an alpha slot, right? They're just cutting off that part of the deal for new pledges?

Yes and yes.

It still boggles my mind that there are more than 430k people out there (including me) who supported this project this early.
 

MrBig

Member
If you haven't backed yet and want an alpha slot, slots will likely be gone by the end of today if not in the next few hours. Anyone who has purchased any package other than the $30 Aurora MR should have a slot reserved.

After slots are gone you will be able to purchase $5 tokens for each test module after everyone with a slot has had their chance and testing has stabilized.
 

RK9039

Member
There's like only 200 slots left, damn. It was around 2000 last time I checked a week or two ago. People are jumping in for the Dog Fight module.
 

Jag

Member
Where do you see the number of slots left? I just bought the Aurora MR+ for $40 which said it has Alpha access.
 
One slot left! Who will be the last alpha backer?!

@Jag It's on the front page with the pledge counter but I suspect by the time I post this it'll be 0 anyway so not really matter <_<

Edit: I think the alpha slots running out broke the pledge counter, just showing loading for me now. Either that or work internet is being a bitch.
 

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
Aaaaand they're gone. Or more accurately, they're $5 more expensive now.



[edit] The RSI site has died in everyone's fervor to check out the little 0, heh
 

Blizzard

Banned
Aaaaand they're gone. Or more accurately, they're $5 more expensive now.



[edit] The RSI site has died in everyone's fervor to check out the little 0, heh
Wait, what was running out then? Just the cheapest spot?

If it's only $5 that doesn't sound that bad, interested people would just get the next tier?
 
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