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The case for adding men to Dead or Alive Xtreme 3, and other similar gaming content.

That would work, but then you have to deal with the cover of the game that's supposed to appeal to the buyers.

- Have covers printed on both sides, like NSMB2 for 3DS.
- Have characters of both genders on the cover, I hope we're more grown up as a society to not think of a man in a swimsuit as ''icky'' and not buy a game because of that. I'm gay and I find the girls gorgeous, actually prefer them over the men in DoA.
 
That's easily avoidable by including an all girl mode, men mode and mixed mode. There's no need for two separate games.
Yeah. I can't imagine it would be too hard to provide some toggles, or some other option to cater the content to the player's personal tastes.

reversible cover would do the trick. have a sticker-quote that mentions the other sex (and maybe a character-cutout with a thumbs up).
That, and/or an pre-order incentive from certain retailers. A pretty popular practice in Japan is to provide character goods that focus on specific individuals to different retailers.

Or just have both on the cover. Anyone that genuinely can't handle seeing a guy and a girl in a swimsuit alongside one another can carry that burden on their own.

Edit:
I missed this...

I don't think I'd really say 'sexualized', but the recent 'Tales of' games would probably be a good place to look. The male designs may not be sexualized, but they are often meant to appeal to women. The hot scenes scene in Xillia 2 I believe I remember also being pretty equal in fanservice with hearing the same in Zestiria as well.

This is due to the fact that there fanbase actually seems like it has even numbers between male and female fans with female fans likely taking up even more of a percentage of those who buy merchandise.

I also believe you see a similar case with Persona 5 where the protagonist's normal form looks like the type of character that would be a model for a glasses guy and a hot bad boy design for his thief form. It also has a chest/cleavage window for the character Yusuke in his thief form who also falls a lot under the pretty boy archetype.
The Tales series is a good example. They definitely have been increasing the amount of male character fan service. Even the base designs, like Zaveid in Zestiria, are really leveraging male sex appeal. (I've noticed the increase in the Persona series too.)

Another recent example is Fire Emblem, which is really embracing fan service for both genders. The fan base for the series has grown exponentially in the past few years, with a large portion of that growth being among female fans. It's sadly not something that's easily quantified, particularly in places like Japan, but I'm positive gay fans also play a much larger role in this then we're given credit for.
 

Platy

Member
For DOAX specifically, it seems to be aimed at a very specific niche of Japanese male gamers who are willing to spend all of their money on stuff like this, so it would be a waste of resources to make male characters when they could make more ridiculous bikinis or add in all the females they cut.

They could take a chance and try it, but they already know there is a small but devoted fanbase that will willing pay a premium for this content.

But this is all just my opinion as someone who only kinda pays attention to the obsessive otaku market in Japan.
I'm sure someone else can correct me.

It is weird how many games rather focus on the ridiculous otaku minority in Japan than .... like half of the world population
 

CupONoodos

Neo Member
Couldn't agree more. Lets even it out and make the game be for women too. Hell sounds like more sales to me and shows Koei Tecmo in a good light really saying that these games are just silly fun for adults. Its like what Free did for anime by giving the ladies a little fanservice in a market that only caters fanservice to a male audience.
 

darklin0

Banned
EF4Xqm6.gif

Stupid Sexy Ryu™

This may be my favorite gif of all time.
 

Zolo

Member
It is weird how many games rather focus on the ridiculous otaku minority in Japan than .... like half of the world population

The casual market is fickle and harder to get to notice your game vs the otaku audience which is smaller, but more reliable in game purchases and other merchandise.
 

Chuck

Still without luck
For DOAX specifically, it seems to be aimed at a very specific niche of Japanese male gamers who are willing to spend all of their money on stuff like this, so it would be a waste of resources to make male characters when they could make more ridiculous bikinis or add in all the females they cut.

They could take a chance and try it, but they already know there is a small but devoted fanbase that will willing pay a premium for this content.

But this is all just my opinion as someone who only kinda pays attention to the obsessive otaku market in Japan.
I'm sure someone else can correct me.

There are PLENTY of girls in Japan that spend all their money on anime boys stuff. I'm sure they could figure something out.
 

Golnei

Member
I think equal opportunity pervy stuff in games that are not built purely as a perversion delivery system, like Street Fighter, is not just fine but actually laudable.

That being said, in terms of things that are explicit (or... explicitly implicit) I think it's best to keep the gardens walled off. There's a reason otome games have a different section from gal games, after all. And I have to believe, given the fact that there is no shortage of the former, that there just isn't the same amount of demand for a product like DOAX for people who find men attractive.

...Which probably speaks pretty well of them, because those games are kind of terrible.

It probably was something of a misstep to focus the discussion so heavily on DOA itself, given that taking into account the diversity of the existing audience for series with broader demographics like Street Fighter is something which can be much more easily realised.

Though I do think that dismissing the potential for a DOAX-like game which features men due to the lack of similar games existing is ignoring a lot of external factors - I don't doubt that fans of series like Free (which has its own healthy merchandising presence) would respond very well to it, for example. It's more of a question of the market being there, but not being given the opportunity to prove its viability.
 

Sakura

Member
It is weird how many games rather focus on the ridiculous otaku minority in Japan than .... like half of the world population

Not particularly weird at all if you consider the budget of the game.
Making a game that appeals to everybody over the world would require a much larger budget and development time.
There is also a question of if the developers would even want to make such a game. Maybe they like making these kinds of games because they also like playing these kinds of games.
 

Zolo

Member
Though I do think that dismissing the potential for a DOAX-like game which features men due to the lack of similar games existing is ignoring a lot of external factors - I don't doubt that fans of series like Free (which has its own healthy merchandising presence) would respond very well to it, for example. It's more of a question of the market being there, but not being given the opportunity to prove its viability.

Yeah. I truthfully agree with this at least as far as the Japanese market is concerned. This is why I mentioned in a previous post pointing out games that are clearly trying to appeal more to the female audience such as 'Tales Of' and 'Persona'. Final Fantasy's also a good one.
 

Tohsaka

Member
Couldn't agree more. Lets even it out and make the game be for women too. Hell sounds like more sales to me and shows Koei Tecmo in a good light really saying that these games are just silly fun for adults. Its like what Free did for anime by giving the ladies a little fanservice in a market that only caters fanservice to a male audience.

That's not really true. The top selling anime of last year was Uta no Prince-sama, a show about hot guys for girls. The current best-selling show is Osomatsu-san, which again has a huge female audience and tons of sexualized merchandise of the guys like hugging pillows.
 
There are PLENTY of girls in Japan that spend all their money on anime boys stuff. I'm sure they could figure something out.
This is very true.

But I must stress too it's not just girls. Gay gamers are really not given our due when it comes to anticipation of content like this. (Or really, just being a part of the gaming community as a whole.) I can guarantee that many gay gamers wish to see this type of content as well.
 

Zolo

Member
This is very true.

But I must stress too it's not just girls. Gay gamers are really not given our due when it comes to anticipation of content like this. (Or really, just being a part of the gaming community as a whole.) I can guarantee that many gay gamers wish to see this type of content as well.

This would be more difficult in Japan where almost all male fanservice including the ones of guys actually getting together is female-focused (Okay. This is the case for the west as well.). This unfortunately runs into the problem where it just has to be hoped that the content that appeals for women wanting to see sexy men also appeals to gay men as well.

For Bioware, it helps in large part because aside from having a fairly large female fanbase (moreso for Dragon Age), it also gives them a big reputation boost that couldn't be expected with a Japanese company in their domestic market.
 

Chuck

Still without luck
This is very true.

But I must stress too it's not just girls. Gay gamers are really not given our due when it comes to anticipation of content like this. (Or really, just being a part of the gaming community as a whole.) I can guarantee that many gay gamers wish to see this type of content as well.

Oh for sure. I have a bunch of gay and bi friends that eat that stuff up, myself included to a lesser degree. The issue there is that Japanese media, with anime and games specifically, all but refuses to acknowledge that they exist. Even the gay or lesbien stuff is for the most part produced for those otaku or fujoshi or whoever. It sure would be nice if that changed.
 
This would be more difficult in Japan where almost all male fanservice including the ones of guys actually getting together is female-focused (Okay. This is the case for the west as well.). This unfortunately runs into the problem where it just has to be hoped that the content that appeals for women wanting to see sexy men also appeals to gay men as well.

For Bioware, it helps in large part because aside from having a fairly large female fanbase (moreso for Dragon Age), it also gives them a big reputation boost that couldn't be expected with a Japanese company in their domestic market.

Oh for sure. I have a bunch of gay and bi friends that eat that stuff up, myself included to a lesser degree. The issue there is that Japanese media, with anime and games specifically, all but refuses to acknowledge that they exist. Even the gay or lesbien stuff is for the most part produced for those otaku or fujoshi or whoever. It sure would be nice if that changed.
It is a major problem for sure, and that's why gay consumers, and gay content creators, need to be more vocal about our wishes. Thankfully gay rights are beginning to see a surge of action in Japan, and I'm hoping with that we see more of an effort to be mindful of LGBT gamers in regards to the content being offered.

It's also equally as important than in regions where we have more of a platform to discuss issues like this, that we use that platform as much as we can, which is the basis for this whole topic. I, as a gay gamer, see a need that's not being filled, and I'm trying to change that by voicing my opinions and suggestions.
 
from what I understand, production of cute boy/yaoi doujin games and art outclasses cute girl/yuri doujin by a hefty amount. Being doujin, it suggests an unsatiated demand, perhaps?
 
This would be more difficult in Japan where almost all male fanservice including the ones of guys actually getting together is female-focused (Okay. This is the case for the west as well.). This unfortunately runs into the problem where it just has to be hoped that the content that appeals for women wanting to see sexy men also appeals to gay men as well.

For Bioware, it helps in large part because aside from having a fairly large female fanbase (moreso for Dragon Age), it also gives them a big reputation boost that couldn't be expected with a Japanese company in their domestic market.

Isn't bara aimed at gay males? Not that that should be the only thing out there for that demographic of course.
 

Palculator

Unconfirmed Member
It is weird how many games rather focus on the ridiculous otaku minority in Japan than .... like half of the world population
There's no easy way to just make a game that sells to 3.65 billion people. No video game ever even came close. Pandering to an audience you can rely on instead doesn't seem weird to me.
 

Zolo

Member
Isn't bara aimed at gay males? Not that that should be the only thing out there for that demographic of course.

It's there, but it feels like one of the smallest niches, and I don't know how well-represented it is in games (or even anime) compared to manga which has representation for basically everything.
 

Platy

Member
There's no easy way to just make a game that sells to 3.65 billion people. No video game ever even came close. Pandering to an audience you can rely on instead doesn't seem weird to me.

Even if it is just a game that is bought by 1% of those 3billion you marketed you will still sell A SHITLOAD MORE than if every single hardcore otaku bought it
 

Golnei

Member
Isn't bara aimed at gay males? Not that that should be the only thing out there for that demographic of course.

Bara covers a range of styles, but it is something targeted towards men primarily; despite still accruing female fans for obvious reasons. The problem is that it doesn't have as much of a presence compared to more traditional BL stuff, which is itself a more minor subgenre. The stigma involved probably has something to do with it - outside of humour-oriented stuff like Cho Aniki, I can't imagine it'd be easy to get anything that utilises sexualised bara aesthetics off the ground if it's anything larger than a niche doujin title. Look at how common it is for relatively mainstream titles to court straight porn artists for official work, while it'd be unthinkable for Mentaiko, Gai Mizuki or Shoutaroh Kojima to be approached in a similar way.
 

RM8

Member
I honestly don't see it happening, it'd alienate the DOAX fanbase. They can have optional swimwear DLC in Last Round because the game at least pretends to be more than the game equivalent of Playboy, but DOAX is pretty clearly aimed at men who want to stare at massive virtual breasts (or very, very tiny ones...) and they could feel uncomfortable with the influx of hot dudes in the series.
 

Palculator

Unconfirmed Member
Even if it is just a game that is bought by 1% of those 3billion you marketed you will still sell A SHITLOAD MORE than if every single hardcore otaku bought it
You're still talking about 36 Million copies as if there was some magical way to make a Dead or Alive Xtreme (or other games for the "ridiculous otaku minority") title outsell Tetris, when even mainline Dead or Alive doesn't come close. They're not reaching for the stars, they're reaching to make a profit on a budget so tiny they can't even include all of their own characters which they'll most assuredly do.
 

Redrop

Member
Even if it is just a game that is bought by 1% of those 3billion you marketed you will still sell A SHITLOAD MORE than if every single hardcore otaku bought it

Attracting larger audiences requires that much more marketing, which means much more spending. There's also the risk that their projected mass market appeal won't latch. As others have said, they know how much interest they can squeeze out of familiar markets, so it's the wisest investment to create something that heavily appeals to that.
 
Are you guys out of your mind?

For istance, I think DoA Xtreme is ridicolous and cringeworthy. You now I'm not biased in stating the following.
I know where this naked man thing cames from. Gays and women are like "we have no problem with your naked chicks so you don't have to get uncinfortable with our naked man. Don't be such a baby." Well gues what? It's common sense that straight men get unconfortable looking at near naked muscolar hairless men. Women have zero problems at looking at other females and profusely compliment each other about their bodies.
Men and women aren't the same. Also straight and gays aren't the same. They like different things and get unconfortable with different things.

Do you like naked men? Have a naked men thing on your own. Why people feel the urge to push their agenda to other people is something I can't understand.
 
It's there, but it feels like one of the smallest niches, and I don't know how well-represented it is in games (or even anime) compared to manga which has representation for basically everything.
There's one recent example, a mobile game called Fantastic Boyfriends: Legends of Midearth. It's scheduled to eventually get an English release too.

While there isn't that many pure bara games overall outside of doujin circles, the artstyle has been becoming for represented in the mainstream. One of the most prominent bara artists, Gengoroh Tagame, has found success with all all-ages slice of life manga, that still features two bara characters at the center. (The story is actually quite progressive too.)

Another example is the extremely successful mobile game Granblue Fantasy. While the majority of the characters are pretty girls, there's actually quite an assortment of bara style characters too, and many of them are quite popular among players.

Bara covers a range of styles, but it is something targeted towards men primarily; despite still accruing female fans for obvious reasons. The problem is that it doesn't have as much of a presence compared to more traditional BL stuff, which is itself a more minor subgenre. The stigma involved probably has something to do with it - outside of humour-oriented stuff like Cho Aniki, I can't imagine it'd be easy to get anything that utilises sexualised bara aesthetics off the ground if it's anything larger than a niche doujin title. Look at how common it is for relatively mainstream titles to court straight porn artists for official work, while it'd be unthinkable for Mentaiko, Gai Mizuki or Shoutaroh Kojima to be approached in a similar way.
It's a shame because the artists you mentioned have artstyles that would work perfectly for many types of games, particularly ones that the east are known for. (Like JRPGs, fighting games, VNs, etc.)

Another reason why I think games like DoAX3 are actually a great platform for this type of expanded fanservice content, because they already contain designs that appeal heavily to the bara/gay set of fans, while also containing some bishounen and pretty boy type characters as well.

I honestly don't see it happening, it'd alienate the DOAX fanbase. They can have optional swimwear DLC in Last Round because the game at least pretends to be more than the game equivalent of Playboy, but DOAX is pretty clearly aimed at men who want to stare at massive virtual breasts (or very, very tiny ones...) and they could feel uncomfortable with the influx of hot dudes in the series.
Though as you can see from this topic, there's already DoA fans here that would like to see it. If people enjoying seeing the male characters in DoA5 dressed in revealing outfits, there's no reason to believe that they can't get many of those same fans to invest in DoAX3 if there was content there that appealed to them, as well as attracting new fans that didn't realize that the IP could offer something that caters to them.

And as I've stated multiple times in the thread, by making it an opt-in experience from the start, players put off at the thought of beefcake can keep their "ladies only" gaming experience, while the rest of us can enjoy something more.

You're still talking about 36 Million copies as if there was some magical way to make a Dead or Alive Xtreme (or other games for the "ridiculous otaku minority") title outsell Tetris, when even mainline Dead or Alive doesn't come close. They're not reaching for the stars, they're reaching to make a profit on a budget so tiny they can't even include all of their own characters which they'll most assuredly do.
I think the lack of the entire female cast is more so they can sell them at a premium later on down the line.

And even if they don't, they still wouldn't be remiss to try and expand the market share of this title. As if they're supposedly working on such a slim margin, it makes sense to ensure they grow their user base by leveraging a small amount of additional content in order to pave the way for future series expansion.

Are you guys out of your mind?

For istance, I think DoA Xtreme is ridicolous and cringeworthy. You now I'm not biased in stating the following.
I know where this naked man thing cames from. Gays and women are like "we have no problem with your naked chicks so you don't have to get uncinfortable with our naked man. Don't be such a baby." Well gues what? It's common sense that straight men get unconfortable looking at near naked muscolar hairless men. Women have zero problems at looking at other females and profusely compliment each other about their bodies.
Men and women aren't the same. Also straight and gays aren't the same. They like different things and get unconfortable with different things.

Do you like naked men? Have a naked men thing on your own. Why people feel the urge to push their agenda to other people is something I can't understand.
I was wondering when posts like this would appear. Living my life, and asking for some consideration, is not pushing an agenda. And human nature isn't some cookie cutter experience you can copy and paste to suit your personal misgivings.

If you have nothing meaningful to contribute, please don't derail this thread with your misguided statements.
 

A.E Suggs

Member
If you guys love DLC so much you should have had all pratical normal clothing to the female fighters and bought their actual costumes as DLC.

Or even ... Sell the Men edition as default and make the Women edition DLC, since it has been PROVEN that it sells =P

Well the problem with that is that they still need people to actually buy the game to then go on to buy the DLC. You gotta entice them with in game costumes and then the DLC.

Anyway I wish you the best OP. But with the DOAX series not even coming to the west for the forseeable future its kind of hard for me to care about it.
 

RM8

Member
Though as you can see from this topic, there's already DoA fans here that would like to see it. If people enjoying seeing the male characters in DoA5 dressed in revealing outfits, there's no reason to believe that they can't get many of those same fans to invest in DoAX3 if there was content there that appealed to them, as well as attracting new fans that didn't realize that the IP could offer something that caters to them.

And as I've stated multiple times in the thread, by making it an opt-in experience from the start, players put off at the thought of beefcake can keep there ladies only gaming experience, while the rest of us can enjoy something more.
I could see 100% optional male DLC being a thing, but not males being part of the box art, marketing or series identity. I honestly doubt they'd do anything beyond that, the series is pretty well established as a T&A product.
 

Palculator

Unconfirmed Member
I think the lack of the entire female cast is more so they can sell them at a premium later on down the line.
Yeah, that's kind of what we've been hoping for over in the DOAX3 threads (since a bunch of great girls are missing.) I do think it's a feasibility issue too considering they already had to delay the game and just three weeks ago we still saw arms clipping through boobs in trailers (has been fixed by now.) So it does seem like they can barely get those 9 girls done in time, let alone the entire female cast, or even the male one added.
And even if they don't, they still wouldn't be remiss to try and expand the market share of this title. As if they're supposedly working on such a slim margin, it makes sense to ensure they grow their user base by leveraging a small amount of additional content in order to pave the way for future series expansion.
Probably. For the record, I'd have no problem with males in DOAX3 (or 4, I guess), but I'm also not surprised they aren't in and going by the recent swimsuits added to DOA5 and their Ken doll crotches I'm not sure they'd do a good job with those yet.
Are you guys out of your mind?

For istance, I think DoA Xtreme is ridicolous and cringeworthy. You now I'm not biased in stating the following.
I know where this naked man thing cames from. Gays and women are like "we have no problem with your naked chicks so you don't have to get uncinfortable with our naked man. Don't be such a baby." Well gues what? It's common sense that straight men get unconfortable looking at near naked muscolar hairless men. Women have zero problems at looking at other females and profusely compliment each other about their bodies.
Men and women aren't the same. Also straight and gays aren't the same. They like different things and get unconfortable with different things.

Do you like naked men? Have a naked men thing on your own. Why people feel the urge to push their agenda to other people is something I can't understand.
Calm down. It's just half naked guys.
 

Platy

Member
Well the problem with that is that they still need people to actually buy the game to then go on to buy the DLC. You gotta entice them with in game costumes and then the DLC.

Anyway I wish you the best OP. But with the DOAX series not even coming to the west for the forseeable future its kind of hard for me to care about it.

Yeah, I also agree that it is much more easy to get dudes on the package from the start
 
I'm all for this.

Shamelessly objective everyone equally. And don't use comedy as a crutch when sexualizing men. Go all the way and make them pieces of meat without hiding behind humor. If a guy feels uncomfortable with that, welcome to what women and gay men tolerate when it comes to sexualized women all over media.
 

Puruzi

Banned
Eh.

I think that there should be fanservice games that are all about hot guys and fanservice games about hot women, but I don't really want them to be mixed
 

vareon

Member
Japan has market for games full of sexy men or sexy girls, but I don't think combining them (or inserting one of the opposite just because) is good in a marketing sense? Both games target a very specific audience.
 
Well the problem with that is that they still need people to actually buy the game to then go on to buy the DLC. You gotta entice them with in game costumes and then the DLC.

Anyway I wish you the best OP. But with the DOAX series not even coming to the west for the forseeable future its kind of hard for me to care about it.
Yes, making an effort from the onset, or shortly after, is imperative. While I'm super happy that DoA5 got some speedos, coming 3+ years into the game's lifecycle isn't exactly striking while the iron is hot.

And thank you. I know some people may think it's a dubious claim, but I truly think adding some men is actually a way to give the game more of a chance at a western addition. It's much harder to write off something as just pandering fluff when the game in question is at least making the effort to be inclusive. (And there's nothing wrong with fluff anyway, particularly the kind that offers a more varied experience.)

I could see 100% optional male DLC being a thing, but not males being part of the box art, marketing or series identity. I honestly doubt they'd do anything beyond that, the series is pretty well established as a T&A product.
Well, they'd have to do some marketing for it, or it kind of defeats the whole purpose. The idea behind this is to expand the game's appeal, not obscure any potential for diversification. I'm not expecting Bayman's stuffed speedo to be front and center, but they can still show him and the other dudes off, while primarily highlighting the women.

Yeah, that's kind of what we've been hoping for over in the DOAX3 threads (since a bunch of great girls are missing.) I do think it's a feasibility issue too considering they already had to delay the game and just three weeks ago we still saw arms clipping through boobs in trailers (has been fixed by now.) So it does seem like they can barely get those 9 girls done in time, let alone the entire female cast, or even the male one added.

Probably. For the record, I'd have no problem with males in DOAX3 (or 4, I guess), but I'm also not surprised they aren't in and going by the recent swimsuits added to DOA5 and their Ken doll crotches I'm not sure they'd do a good job with those yet.
That's a problem they face with being so insular though. I have no doubt that they expect to make the majority of the revenue from this game by leveraging the assets they already have at a premium, like they already do with DoA5. But by investing some of their capital into providing some male centric content too, they can tap into a greater stream of potential clients willing to partake in this type of content.

While I do think it would have the benefit of expanding the series' overall potential, I don't think by adding guys that suddenly the game is gonna wind up on the greatest hits menu, but it would be insuring that Team NINJA, and other companies interested in creating the same type of content, have plans set for future proofing the series. Because the future definitely involves more male character based fan service, and they can jump on the front of the train now, or try and grab a backseat later.

Eh.

I think there should be fanservice games that are all about hot guys and fanservice games about hot women, but I don't really want them to be mixed
Some people like both too. And even though I'm gay, I'd like to have the female characters be present in my game alongside the men.

And with the presumed toggles/DLC scheme, everyone can customize it to their preferences.

Japan has market for games full of sexy men or sexy girls, but I don't think combining them (or inserting one of the opposite just because) is good in a marketing sense? Both games target a very specific audience.
Sexy girls? Yes. But outside of otome/fujoshi titles (which is almost exclusively pretty, lithe, young men aimed at female audiences), there's not really anything for fans of more muscular/masculine men, outside of doujin. Even though DoAX is a niche title, it's still part of the mainstream offerings available to the average gamer, so it definitely would address an under served need.
 

Puruzi

Banned
Some people like both too. And even though I'm gay, I'd like to have the female characters be present in my game alongside the men.

And with the presumed toggles/DLC scheme, everyone can customize it to their preferences.

Sure, I guess. These types of games are really aimed at people who like seeing half naked anime chicks though, so adding guys in kinda defeats the point? I'd still buy it but it seems weird to want guys in this kind of game imho.

Why not just make a new series that has everyone obscenely sexualized from the start?
 

Golnei

Member
Japan has market for games full of sexy men or sexy girls, but I don't think combining them (or inserting one of the opposite just because) is good in a marketing sense? Both games target a very specific audience.

Putting aside the debatable existence of bisexuals, I guess the reason why DOAX is so often targeted is because it spins off a franchise with both. The vast difference between the kinds of genres and budgets niche titles focusing on men are produced in and tend to get also plays a part, as well as the quantity of each. When published console titles courting those audiences as opposed to doujin work is so rare, the optional integration of established male characters in a fanservice spinoff makes sense as a middle ground, since an original game focused on men alone would never be produced in that space, especially without precedent.

Do you like naked men? Have a naked men thing on your own. Why people feel the urge to push their agenda to other people is something I can't understand.

It's regrettable, but you can't expect anything more from GAF these days. Being a normal heterosexual man might as well be a crime.
 
Are you guys out of your mind?

For istance, I think DoA Xtreme is ridicolous and cringeworthy. You now I'm not biased in stating the following.
I know where this naked man thing cames from. Gays and women are like "we have no problem with your naked chicks so you don't have to get uncinfortable with our naked man. Don't be such a baby." Well gues what? It's common sense that straight men get unconfortable looking at near naked muscolar hairless men. Women have zero problems at looking at other females and profusely compliment each other about their bodies.
Men and women aren't the same. Also straight and gays aren't the same. They like different things and get unconfortable with different things.

Do you like naked men? Have a naked men thing on your own. Why people feel the urge to push their agenda to other people is something I can't understand.
this post is a damn mess. I can't at the fucking spelling snjfndfjdf lmao
 
Sure, I guess. These types of games are really aimed at people who like seeing half naked anime chicks though, so adding guys in kinda defeats the point? I'd still buy it but it seems weird to want guys in this kind of game imho.

Why not just make a new series that has everyone obscenely sexualized from the start?
I'm not sure how it defeats the point. The ladies aren't going anywhere. It might be easy for you to say it's weird because you don't have to actively look for this type of content. Sexy women in gaming is totally ingrained into the medium. Not so much for people that are fans of the male form, particularly anything that exists outside the otome market, or incidental flesh that results from power fantasy representation. I'm not saying this to be dismissive of your viewpoint, but you may want to try considering it from an outside perspective.

If you can show me these series that have everyone sexualized from the start, then sign me up. I'd love to support them, but the thing is, they are a rarity. So that's why the best course of action is to expand upon a series that already has the basis for overt sexualization that also already contains a viable and available roster of male characters. That's why DoAX is a perfect venue IMO.

I truly hope for a future where we can have more stand alone experiences that suit every taste and need, and I do believe we'll get there eventually, but right now, we have to leverage the opportunities that are presented to us, and this is an opportunity that can make way for that better and more inclusive future.
 
Wouldn't it be better to just have a separate beefcake game, one that was tailored to that experience, as opposed to tacking it on to DOAX?
 
Wouldn't it be better to just have a separate beefcake game, one that was tailored to that experience, as opposed to tacking it on to DOAX?
That would be great, but which of the larger companies are going to take a chance on something like that without some sort of prior precedence?

Most large scale developers are very adverse to taking a risk on that scale. That's why we have to set the stage with smaller successes. Utilizing existing properties that present the opportunity for beefcake centric expansion is a very safe way of keeping costs in check, while still testing the market for viability. And the thing is, they can't just make some small effort and throw their hands up and be done with it. It needs to be a sustained endeavor.
 

Puruzi

Banned
I'm not sure how it defeats the point. The ladies aren't going anywhere. It might be easy for you to say it's weird because you don't have to actively look for this type of content. Sexy women in gaming is totally ingrained into the medium. Not so much for people that are fans of the male form, particularly anything that exists outside the otome market, or incidental flesh that results from power fantasy representation. I'm not saying this to be dismissive of your viewpoint, but you may want to try considering it from an outside perspective.

If you can show me these series that have everyone sexualized from the start, then sign me up. I'd love to support them, but the thing is, they are a rarity. So that's why the best course of action is to expand upon a series that already has the basis for overt sexualization that also already contains a viable and available roster of male characters. That's why DoAX is a perfect venue IMO.

I truly hope for a future where we can have more stand alone experiences that suit every taste and need, and I do believe we'll get there eventually, but right now, we have to leverage the opportunities that are presented to us, and this is an opportunity that can make way for that better and more inclusive future.
I dunno. I kinda get what you're saying but I just don't agree. It's not a big enough issue that it would make me not buy the game though, so I wouldn't be angry if it did happen. It just doesn't really make sense to me.

Wouldn't it be better to just have a separate beefcake game, one that was tailored to that experience, as opposed to tacking it on to DOAX?

This honestly just seems the way to go.
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Also, another point to think about is whether or not the people who make these games even WANT sexualized men in them. I don't really think they do, but that's just me speculating.
 
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