Sounds fine to me. Start with it as DLC and ease people into the idea, bring the audience in and then make it a mainstay.
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The case for adding men to Dead or Alive Xtreme 3, and other similar gaming content.
- Thread starter Hours Left
- Start date
Sounds fine to me. Start with it as DLC and ease people into the idea, bring the audience in and then make it a mainstay.
Hours Left
Member
The lack of past successes isn't due to some string of failures though, it's because there's been almost effort to even try. The financial risks are not lost on me at all, but when I hear that any of the suggestions I've offered, or any of the other ideas offered in this topic, are not at all viable, it's basically like being told gamers like myself hold no intrinsic value to the market, and I don't think that's true.
And as I said, people are free to disagree. I'm not trying to convert people, or disregard other viewpoints. What I am asking is for people that do express dissenting opinions to try and think about the situation if they were faced with the same problems personally. Would you be happy to just let things continue on as is, or would you try and advocate for change?
I would actually say that female/gay members do have just about no intrinsic value to what Tecmo is trying to achieve, unfortunately. Its pretty blatantly a softcore porn game and, even though its silly, the idea of including men in the game does bear a potential risk for them losing the already small market they do have. And, as you have acknowledged, it isn't a resource-light idea in what is really a small scale game. Tecmo has kinda set the ground to completely exclude those audiences deliberately.
An idea isn't going to be viable even if it is the morally right idea. I am thinking about the idea, and I agree with you completely that its a shitty situation. But I don't think that makes them adding male cast members to the series any more likely.
The most realistic avenue for growth that I would see is the Gay/Female reaching games gaining in popularity and thereby proving themselves. Unless that happens on a larger scale, I don't think any company is going to want to jump into the unknown waters.
And I am not saying you should be happy with the situation at all, and I do think advocating for change is the right thing. I just doubt this specific endeavor is going to be fruitful.
Make it totally optional, as in the player can decide to only play with the girls, only play with the men or mix both.
At that point a player shouldn't really care if there are sexy men in the game, because they can go and set it so they never see them if those sexy men bother the player that much.
As a straight person I don't feel bothered by sexy men (although I'd wish for more handsome ones, of the not overly muscular type, because nice bodies are nice bodies, be it men or women) and just as I love seeing sexy women, I think women/gays should have their share of fanservice and catering too.
What better place to start with than with a fanservice game like this? They already have the base characters to work with.
I dunno, the idea seems really good to me, especially because it would fit a fanservice game such as this.
At that point a player shouldn't really care if there are sexy men in the game, because they can go and set it so they never see them if those sexy men bother the player that much.
As a straight person I don't feel bothered by sexy men (although I'd wish for more handsome ones, of the not overly muscular type, because nice bodies are nice bodies, be it men or women) and just as I love seeing sexy women, I think women/gays should have their share of fanservice and catering too.
What better place to start with than with a fanservice game like this? They already have the base characters to work with.
I dunno, the idea seems really good to me, especially because it would fit a fanservice game such as this.
Hours Left
Member
I guess what I'd say in response to that is that I believe DoAX3 can be part of the gay/female reaching games you've mentioned. And while I'm definitely not happy with things the way they are, I am hopeful for the future. I have to choose to believe that things will change for the better, or what's the point of continuing to partake in the hobby?
Some people may think that hope is misplaced, or a waste of time, but I don't. And I know I'm being idealistic, I just happen to see that as a positive trait.
I do see positive reactions to gayness increasing in gaming, which is overall a great sign. The games you mentioned before, even if they aren't as obscene as DoA do show increasing strength in the market to handle the subject matter. Its just that I envision the male and female softcore porn games being more separate in releases when it does expand. That's mostly why I am disagreeing with DoA in particular, I don't disagree that there is room in the market.
I think its just a matter of the market expanding. Unfortunately games are already at a high budget, so it might take some time, unlike the straight softcore games which had the chance to develop along with the gaming industry.
I don't see your viewpoint as a waste of time whatsoever. I'm sure its a difficult place to be in, but hopefully there will be growth over time. As you said, the market does seem to be increasing, which is another good sign. I just doubt there will be any immediate jump into the high budget games.
JumpCancel
Banned
You sound a bit homophobic. I'm straight and am comfortable in my sexuality. If I saw a muscular, half naked guy I'd think "That guy puts a lot of work into his body" of "That guy clearly practices a sport/martial art".
Then again I'm also comfortable in my own body too, and I rowed competitively for 4 years with other men and women walking in just rowing lycra. They are bodies. The embarrassment of discomfort felt occurs in your mind. Nothing is innately discomforting. It's down to your perception.
It's common sense to not generalize the feelings of both sexes and genders. We're all different. The post isn't about "pushing agendas" and from the sounds of it you don't like DOAX either. So if they added men to appease a small female (or male) audience it would not affect you either.
We're allowed to like things you don't like.
Hours Left
Member
If there's one aspect of my proposition that I'd gladly concede to being incorrect about it would be the viability of stand alone, male centric fan service games in the mainstream market. While I still think it would be safer to use an established property to make an initial foray into the genre via add-on content, if the first real successes in this specific type of game are because of brand new properties that stand alone in their dedication to beefcake, then I'll be first in line for those games. I'm not totally set on DoAX being the venue for this type of content, I just think it offers an already built in opportunity to explore that. Yet the points you make contrary to this are perfectly viable, and are most likely a more sober account of the current situation.
Lightning Count
Member
This is manservice done right.
Eolz
Member
So, I can't really make a long answer since I'm on mobile and at work (will come back onto it later), but I mostly support what you're saying OP.
I disagree that DOAX3 is the place to start (not even have the full roster, mechanics not really planned for mixity, etc), but an eventual DOAX4 definitely should plan that from the start.
Fighting games, including DOA6 really should go that way in terms of "sexualized" outfits though, even if it's not as much, at least having 1/3rd of those outfits being also available would already be a big step. DOA5 and the others were really disappointing in that regard but also partly understandable (they went with what was selling). Male characters just had less costumes overall, which is a shame since even casual/civilian outfits were great.
I think a mixed gender version of DOAX/similar would be the best way to go though. Better in terms of acceptance and mechanics also better designed for everyone.
Otome-only games are way too niche otherwise.
Edit specific about DOA: the series is actually pretty balanced in terms of genders unlike some other competitors, and male characters are also definitely used. Bayman is my second main, and most characters all have their own fanbases, just like the females. Let's not continue the jokes that "nobody uses the male characters anyway".
I disagree that DOAX3 is the place to start (not even have the full roster, mechanics not really planned for mixity, etc), but an eventual DOAX4 definitely should plan that from the start.
Fighting games, including DOA6 really should go that way in terms of "sexualized" outfits though, even if it's not as much, at least having 1/3rd of those outfits being also available would already be a big step. DOA5 and the others were really disappointing in that regard but also partly understandable (they went with what was selling). Male characters just had less costumes overall, which is a shame since even casual/civilian outfits were great.
I think a mixed gender version of DOAX/similar would be the best way to go though. Better in terms of acceptance and mechanics also better designed for everyone.
Otome-only games are way too niche otherwise.
Edit specific about DOA: the series is actually pretty balanced in terms of genders unlike some other competitors, and male characters are also definitely used. Bayman is my second main, and most characters all have their own fanbases, just like the females. Let's not continue the jokes that "nobody uses the male characters anyway".
This is the same team that had a press release to announce their research into breast physics for the game.
They're not appealing to a gay or straight female audience. DOA has been known for their pandering to those that appreciate half naked video game girls.
Quality of the game aside (it's my favorite fighting game gameplay wise), they have never tried to hide who they're appealing to or be ashamed of their obvious fanfare.
Them being inclusive wouldn't make it harder for people to disparage the series either. It'll still be the same exact thing, diversity or not.
People have a right to want male characters in the game, but it's most likely not happening. This is the third game in a series full of scantily clad women. They have their audience and are satisfied with it. It's also possible they would lose sales off of it, but I'm not gonna argue that.
I'm just here to say it's most likely not gonna happen and they're not wrong for not including guys. It's also not similar to the overall issue of diversity. This is a niche title for a very, very specific group of dedicated fans.
I'm honestly waiting for the day they just go topless, tbh. Then they'll have my money.
They're not appealing to a gay or straight female audience. DOA has been known for their pandering to those that appreciate half naked video game girls.
Quality of the game aside (it's my favorite fighting game gameplay wise), they have never tried to hide who they're appealing to or be ashamed of their obvious fanfare.
Them being inclusive wouldn't make it harder for people to disparage the series either. It'll still be the same exact thing, diversity or not.
People have a right to want male characters in the game, but it's most likely not happening. This is the third game in a series full of scantily clad women. They have their audience and are satisfied with it. It's also possible they would lose sales off of it, but I'm not gonna argue that.
I'm just here to say it's most likely not gonna happen and they're not wrong for not including guys. It's also not similar to the overall issue of diversity. This is a niche title for a very, very specific group of dedicated fans.
I'm honestly waiting for the day they just go topless, tbh. Then they'll have my money.
That's definitely not a bigger problem - but it is an equally valid and important problem, i'm with you on that.
I'm pretty sure evidence has shown they'd gain sales. As games have begun return to their more inclusive roots - even among adult games - sales have gone up. There is literally nothing to lose from including some scantily clad men. They could even add options for 'women only' or 'men only' so people like yourself can happily ogle the sex of their choice.
Also the problem isnt who the game caters to - the problem is that overrepresenting one sex betrays underlying cultural beliefs/patterns about who it is/isnt OK to sexualise or objectify. THAT is why it's problematic: it's ok to objectify women, it's not ok to objectify men. There is no male equivalent of DOA (if there was, this discussion wouldnt be happening and everything would be fine). Entertainment creators putting out stuff like this reflects on our whole society (and its problems, in terms of how we see women and men).
Really curious to see the research including adult games.
You're looking at the wrong series if you're looking for fights against objectification of sexes.
They may gain sales through diversity and inclusiveness but this is a spinoff of their main series. It's not like they're wanting this to be a best seller or else they might be even more risqué.
Diversity is a big issue in gaming but looking at DOA to make steps to fix it first is misguided. Isn't the FGC itself still pretty sexist?
While I heartily approve of the idea of equal opportunity , I think it's a bit of a stretch to think that people interested in seeing male pandering would buy a whole game of stuff they're not interested in just so they could buy a piece of DLC with a small piece of what they do want.
Personally I think the guys in DOA look pretty bad so just give me a Summer Lessons VR game featuring Hot Ryu and call it even.
Personally I think the guys in DOA look pretty bad so just give me a Summer Lessons VR game featuring Hot Ryu and call it even.
Lord Phol
Member
Would definitely have nothing against that but I'm not sure there's a demographic big enough for the developers to feel it's worthwhile? When it comes to selling "sex" straight males will always be your biggest customer base. At least as it is right now.
Making an "expansion" pack or mini spin-off with the dudes of DoA would probably be the best way to start off such a franchise.
Making an "expansion" pack or mini spin-off with the dudes of DoA would probably be the best way to start off such a franchise.
That's exactly what's being suggested. Even a more prominent focus on accentuating the sex appeal of the male cast in DOA6 would be a good avenue to take instead of jumping straight into DOAX - they've clearly experimented with some revealing outfits, and the characters themselves are intended to be attractive, but they'd need to show some more initiative if they want to turn the male cast into microtransaction whale bait. The way they've engaged with fans of the male cast, however minor, with things like the fan-designed Eliot costume, does show precedent for recognising the potential that comes with milking two distinct markets as far as DLC goes.
I said it before earlier in the thread, but I am interested to see what the male characters in Summer Lesson will end up looking like, especially since Harada has stated the female staff are taking the initiative in designing them. I'm expecting K-drama rejects, but I'm open to being surprised.
thatJohann
Member
Yea hot guys in tiny speedos need love too.
Eolz
Member
That's the thing. If people want that but then don't buy the DLC when it's out, there's no point for a publisher to experiment more.
That's a bit like a pc gamer pirating a game and then wondering why X company isn't making a port of the next game.
I mean, I see a lot of "yeah but I don't like DOA males" or "I like this but not that" in this thread, but publishers don't really care if nobody buys this content. There's a reason the DOAX3 roster was chosen after making people buy character themes and choosing the 9 that sold the most.
hydrophilic attack
Member
I mean, any kind of actually interesting porn for straight people needs to contain both men and women.
Thought I was the only one that didn't get dicks4breastslawl whenever the subject of fairplay between the sexes came up.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
I kind of don't get it either, but I figured it was a thing people who are actually into men should decide, not me (if you are, then fuck what I'm saying, I guess.) Like, yes they are obviously different in that penises are primary sexual characteristics whereas breasts are secondary ones, but that doesn't say much about how they compare in terms of attractiveness or titillation.
JumpCancel
Banned
No body parts are innately sexual. Sexualization occurs inside your mind. Yes they are sexual organs, but not every interaction with said body part results in arousal. It's the context thats key.
Do you see surgeons getting hot and heavy over female patients, or male patients when they're performing surgery? I hope not, for your sake and recommend a change in doctors.
2 Covers 1 Game
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Hey man, we've all seen biology books for the first time ( ≖‿≖
In all seriousness, though, yes, you're right; the brain is the biggest erogenous zone. My point was more that their different roles in biology shouldn't be used to argue about their role in titillation. As in, saying breasts aren't genitals and therefore don't compare to penises. Obviously, neither are inherently titillating.
While I myself rarely if ever play games like DoA, I quite agree there should be a much wider display of male bodies in general. I honestly think a DLC would be the best solution instead of a new franchise/spin-off. DLC would likely be cheaper to produce and secure an install base better than a stand-alone franchise or spin-off.
As long as we get some more realistic and meaty and hairy male bodies to go with it. There is too little bara love. D:
As long as we get some more realistic and meaty and hairy male bodies to go with it. There is too little bara love. D:
Ludger Kresnik
Member
Golnei. Hours Left. You two are among my favourite people ever. <3
DOAX may seem like the right series to do this with on paper, but considering not only the audience but the developers themselves, it doesn't seem particularly likely. Of course, no one can know for sure without actually trying, and I'm definitely all for it.
The fanservice scales desperately need some evening out, and I'm talking beyond otome games and indies. I really appreciate games like Coming Out On Top, but that's not only not mainstream, but it's also straight up porn. Porn is not the same thing as titillation, which is why fanservice titles and fanservice in games exist to begin with. Why ogle Harley Quinn's T&A in the Batman Arkham games when you can just hit up some porn of her? Is it so ridiculous that we might want to be appealed to in mainstream media without it having to involve full on dick action? Apparently.
Someone do it. Do it wholeheartedly and mean it. Before you go "but *insert Japanese game* did this", those are almost always for comedy. That includes you, Yakuza.
Great points raised about bara artists, too. I'd love to see Itto illustrate for a JRPG or something. (obviously, right?)
DOAX may seem like the right series to do this with on paper, but considering not only the audience but the developers themselves, it doesn't seem particularly likely. Of course, no one can know for sure without actually trying, and I'm definitely all for it.
The fanservice scales desperately need some evening out, and I'm talking beyond otome games and indies. I really appreciate games like Coming Out On Top, but that's not only not mainstream, but it's also straight up porn. Porn is not the same thing as titillation, which is why fanservice titles and fanservice in games exist to begin with. Why ogle Harley Quinn's T&A in the Batman Arkham games when you can just hit up some porn of her? Is it so ridiculous that we might want to be appealed to in mainstream media without it having to involve full on dick action? Apparently.
Someone do it. Do it wholeheartedly and mean it. Before you go "but *insert Japanese game* did this", those are almost always for comedy. That includes you, Yakuza.
Great points raised about bara artists, too. I'd love to see Itto illustrate for a JRPG or something. (obviously, right?)
Part of why I love this thread's idea so much is because of people who think like you.
It is ok to force sexy women on everyone else in almost every game ever but you will die if you see a men in a bathing suit ?
>=D
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
He just said he had no desire, like a bunch of people on GAF do when it's about sexy women in games. And nobody is "forcing" sexy women into a DOAX game, they are what it's about.
Yeah I mean it wouldn't hurt to broaden the appeal of this game, but the development team probably knows how its bread is buttered by now and my guess is that they've decided it's not worth it.
I would love to see some figures regarding the sales of costume DLC for male DoA5 characters vs female characters. I bet it would paint a pretty clear picture.
I would love to see some figures regarding the sales of costume DLC for male DoA5 characters vs female characters. I bet it would paint a pretty clear picture.
No, I won't die. I think adding men into a game about Sexy women isn't a good idea. Put out a separate game with men. It will be interesting to see what sells more. I'm not quite sure how my original comment of me wanting 2 separate games became me dying from seeing men in bathing suits. I'd imagine if someone finds men attractive, they would rather have a game without the women.
JumpCancel
Banned
Hey man, we've all seen biology books for the first time ( ≖‿≖
I was all about the dictionary:
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
So, again for the record, I have nothing against men in DOAX3 or its sequel or adding them via DLC or whatever, but to me this makes the most sense too mostly because that's how other media have done it. DOAX3 mainly reminds me of Playboy (even more now that they ditched nudity) and for looking at men there has always been the alternative: Playgirl. I realise Playgirl has mainly been marketed towards women, but this is less about the actual readership of Playgirl than it is about it being a precedent of interest in male titillation being put into its own dedicated product and being successful in doing so.
Repeat: I wouldn't die from men in DOAX3 or however people want to misconstrue my words and I know both Hours Left and Bayonetta (probably Ludger Kresnik as well?) have said they'd like the women in the game too, so for them having both would be the best option. I'm just going by a similar situation that, in my opinion, maps to what we have here and how that has been resolved in the past.
Here's why I think adding male characters as DLCs isn't a good idea and probably won't work.
Higher development cost.
Adding a male character should cost significantly more than adding a female character. New swimsuits and costumes have to be created specifically for the guys because obviously they can't be wearing bikinis and lingerie. New animations have to be created too so they won't look awkward behaving like girls.
Higher barriers to entry.
Those who want to play as guys will be forced to buy the base game in addition to the male character and costume DLCs, meaning that they will have to spend more. Is it worth doing so for just 1 or 2 male characters?
Risk of upsetting existing fans.
Team Ninja already said that they won't be adding any of the missing girls (Tina, Lei Fang, Lisa etc) via DLC, resulting in a number of disappointed fans. Imagine what will happen if they announce that they will instead be adding guys.
Higher development cost.
Adding a male character should cost significantly more than adding a female character. New swimsuits and costumes have to be created specifically for the guys because obviously they can't be wearing bikinis and lingerie. New animations have to be created too so they won't look awkward behaving like girls.
Higher barriers to entry.
Those who want to play as guys will be forced to buy the base game in addition to the male character and costume DLCs, meaning that they will have to spend more. Is it worth doing so for just 1 or 2 male characters?
Risk of upsetting existing fans.
Team Ninja already said that they won't be adding any of the missing girls (Tina, Lei Fang, Lisa etc) via DLC, resulting in a number of disappointed fans. Imagine what will happen if they announce that they will instead be adding guys.
User 73706
Banned
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
"Know your audience" is a thing, and while I agree there's value in inclusiveness, that's the developer's choice. This game is aimed squarely at the "wants to look at sexy videogame women" audience.
To take it to the absurd, why not add 16 tracks to Halo 5? You know, because there are vehicles and we shouldn't be leaving out racing fans. Or what about Minecraft? I mean, what's Microsoft's problem for not also including Wii Sports, another one of the most popular games in the last 10 years? Do they not like money or something?
The only reason why this issue gets any attention is because of the fanservice nature of the game and certain people's strong opinions about the political correctness of it. No one would take this argument seriously anywhere else.
To take it to the absurd, why not add 16 tracks to Halo 5? You know, because there are vehicles and we shouldn't be leaving out racing fans. Or what about Minecraft? I mean, what's Microsoft's problem for not also including Wii Sports, another one of the most popular games in the last 10 years? Do they not like money or something?
The only reason why this issue gets any attention is because of the fanservice nature of the game and certain people's strong opinions about the political correctness of it. No one would take this argument seriously anywhere else.
potatohead
Member
I guess it would be the game version of a beauty contest/swimsuit competition.
Not that I even support those things, but humanity has created them.
Some of you guys are REALLY, REALLY insecure.
Including a few of the posters above this post.
Wow, lol
Part of me feels like that post may be satire...
Stormblessed
Member
Wasn't the fighter pack basically an effort to establish if there was a market for this in DOA? Doesn't seem like it found an audience, given how keen they've been on churning out DLC. And if they're not releasing DOAX in the West for economic reasons, they're definitely not going to add male characters they know they can't sell swimwear for. Probably a busted flush.
Other titles have proven a better avenue - SFV found some success with equal opportunity fanservice. If it's shown there's money in it, don't see why others wouldn't follow suit.
Other titles have proven a better avenue - SFV found some success with equal opportunity fanservice. If it's shown there's money in it, don't see why others wouldn't follow suit.
Hours Left
Member
Thank you, I appreciate it.
Whether or not DoAX is the right venue does indeed remain to be seen, but I totally agree with the other points you've made. Games like Coming Out On Top are truly amazing. I'm a huge fan obviously and hope to see many more like them. Yet I don't think they can used as a fair comparison because they are actual adult pornographic material, while games like this are more akin to a video game version of a swimsuit special. While there is certainly a lot of titillation going on, that's precisely where it stays. As skimpy as this bikinis are, and however many straps slide off, or suggestive tan lines are acquired, it's not gonna suddenly bust out into a porno. And if we look for games that feature male characters in this same fashion, there are almost none. (The otome market is basically where that stays, and they generally follow a very set manner of guidelines.)
The opportunity for something new is the there, developers just need to act on it.
We don't know what the sales of the DLC are, for either gender or any set of costume. Those figures haven't been released. And while I'm absolutely sure the women's outfits sell the most, and I don't think anyone would say otherwise, it's not really a fair comparison because they receive easily three or four times are many outfits as the men do. There's been a grand total of one stand alone, men only set of outfits, while the women have numerous female only packs. Usually what happens now is that the men might get a couple outfits tacked onto a pack primarily featuring the women. (Outside the yearly Halloween set, and the Valentine's Day set that was just released.)
But having said that, Koei Tecmo obviously does see some inherent value in providing the men with fan service outfits. The character of Ein, for example. Almost every single one of his DLC outfits is sexualized in some fashion. And another character, Eliot, actually won one of the costume design contests, and the outfit that resulted from it actually had interchangeable underwear, a feature that previously was only available to female characters. And then you have outfits like Bayman's stripper devil costume, Rig's werewolf outfit that exposes his underwear, Jann Lee's MMA briefs, etc. They do make an effort for the men every so often, they're just not being utilized enough IMO.
But with things like the Valentine's Day pack that just came out, (aka actual swimsuits) their attitudes may be changing in this regard. I mentioned this to Golnei before, you don't accidentally make a speedo. The intent of that content is pretty clear. It may be well into the life cycle of DoA5, and the men might not have the appropriate anatomy to show them off to their full potential, but it is still a step in the right direction. Now I'm hoping that Team NINJA will make a more concerted effort in this regard going forward, and adding some men to DoAX can be part of that effort IMO.
Also, I've seen some people talking about male body physics, or the lack thereof. I posted this in the thread about the DoA5 swimsuits for the guys, but I think it's apt here too...
Hours Left, you always have the best posts about fanservice. <3
I would love for more equal fanservice. A lot of posts here have mentioned not wanting male fanservice just appear in games like DoAX. But have yall ever considered what it's like being a female fan of the series and feeling left out?! Or being a female player and being constantly bombarded by fanservice for guys in many games?
It used to bother me when i was younger just because i wanted fanservice to cater to ME as well. But eventually i got used to the idea, that no. I won't get the equal fanservice i want. I stopped rolling my eyes at the fanservice for males. It became a norm.
I'm glad that's changing in some games. Slowly equal fanservice is happening. I wish it would become the norm in all games that include fanservice scenes.
Also that post saying women aren't horny like men. Lol if you only see my perv tweets or the perv tweets from some of my friends. Trust me, we can be as horny as you guys.
I would love for more equal fanservice. A lot of posts here have mentioned not wanting male fanservice just appear in games like DoAX. But have yall ever considered what it's like being a female fan of the series and feeling left out?! Or being a female player and being constantly bombarded by fanservice for guys in many games?
It used to bother me when i was younger just because i wanted fanservice to cater to ME as well. But eventually i got used to the idea, that no. I won't get the equal fanservice i want. I stopped rolling my eyes at the fanservice for males. It became a norm.
I'm glad that's changing in some games. Slowly equal fanservice is happening. I wish it would become the norm in all games that include fanservice scenes.
Also that post saying women aren't horny like men. Lol if you only see my perv tweets or the perv tweets from some of my friends. Trust me, we can be as horny as you guys.
Yahhhhhhhh based Yakuza giving me the fanservice i need~~~This is manservice done right.
While we don't know how well the DLCs sell, the amount of DLCs for the female characters should be a clear indication of what the majority of the fans' demands are and where sales are coming from. As for the Valentine's Day Set, it could well be just a one-time thingy. I'm not convinced that their attitudes have changed unless they make a constant effort to add (sexy) costumes for the male characters.We don't know what the sales of the DLC are, for either gender or any set of costume. Those figures haven't been released. And while I'm absolutely sure the women's outfits sell the most, and I don't think anyone would say otherwise, it's not really a fair comparison because they receive easily three or four times are many outfits as the men do. There's been a grand total of one stand alone, men only set of outfits, while the women have numerous female only packs. Usually what happens now is that the men might get a couple outfits tacked onto a pack primarily featuring the women. (Outside the yearly Halloween set, and the Valentine's Day set that was just released.)
But having said that, Koei Tecmo obviously does see some inherent value in providing the men with fan service outfits. The character of Ein, for example. Almost every single one of his DLC outfits is sexualized in some fashion. And another character, Eliot, actually won one of the costume design contests, and the outfit that resulted from it actually had interchangeable underwear, a feature that previously was only available to female characters. And then you have outfits like Bayman's stripper devil costume, Rig's werewolf outfit that exposes his underwear, Jann Lee's MMA briefs, etc. They do make an effort for the men every so often, they're just not being utilized enough IMO.
But with things like the Valentine's Day pack that just came out, (aka actual swimsuits) their attitudes may be changing in this regard. I mentioned this to Golnei before, you don't accidentally make a speedo. The intent of that content is pretty clear. It may be well into the life cycle of DoA5, and the men might not have the appropriate anatomy to show them off to their full potential, but it is still a step in the right direction. Now I'm hoping that Team NINJA will make a more concerted effort in this regard going forward, and adding some men to DoAX can be part of that effort IMO.
Also, I've seen some people talking about male body physics, or the lack thereof. I posted this in the thread about the DoA5 swimsuits for the guys, but I think it's apt here too...
Also since you mentioned male body physics, I actually would like to see it implemented. Soulcalibur II had chest muscle jiggling action years ago. Team Ninja needs to catch up.
Like me, I think most people just don't want male characters to be added to DOAX, but don't mind a separate, all-male version. Equal fanservice doesn't mean that every game has to cater equally to both genders. There are actually lots of otome and BL games catering to the female audience in Japan.
Hours Left
Member
Thank you, that's kind of you to say. Continuing to talk about it is part of how consumers can bring about change, so I urge anyone who feels the same to do so.
But that's the thing, if they don't give players like me much of an opportunity to support content that we'd like to see, how are we supposed to demonstrate sales potential? We have to go at it via other means, such as this topic. And it has to be a concerted, sustain effort on the developers end, not just some random happenings. I do think they are noticing the potential though, as I've mentioned, but we've got a long way to go.
No one is doubting that the ladies of DoA are the main draw for the series, and will remain so going forward, but Team NINJA can certainly do a much better job for the men.
I know this wasn't in response to my post but I'll just point out again that otome games, while they are certainly gaining in popularity, or not really the same as this. And while BL games aren't nearly as common as it seems you are suggesting, particularly ones that are of any quality. Most BL games are not something that's found in mainstream shops, they're almost all doujin titles, or ones created by very small development studios.
As far as anything that shows off male characters in the same fashion that this game does for female characters, particularly among mainstream offerings, there's almost nothing. Also, it's not just women that are being under served, but gay men too, as well as people of all persuasions that enjoy seeing this type of content.
<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
Has separate but equal ever worked?
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Yes? Smut is usually divided into what people prefer? Don't think hamfisting some reference to racism in here is achieving anything.