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The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom – Mr. Aonuma Gameplay Demonstration

What if this really is all there is to the game?

Like you go do more shrines, and at the end fight Ganon. No big secret thing Nintendo is hiding.

How would you feel?

If the reviews drop before release date and thats the case, I’ll cancel my preorder. New mechanics and more shrines won’t do it for me. Not at full price. Im going to need alot more story in this one too.
 

UnNamed

Banned
Botw graphics were bad not because the Switch. Good art style, but unimpressive visual. Some people also forget it was heavily downgraded from the first presentation.

But after all, it wasn't a big issue, the game was made with WiiU in mind, and WiiU had a terrible CPU, plus the port on Switch, plus the relative inexperience on the platform. While the game don't use fancy effects to drain resources, at least the CPU was occupied on handling the physics.

After 6 years, after TW3, after Doom, after XB3, and other titles, TotK is just bad.
 

Majukun

Member
I wouldn't argue that it lacks overall rationale; I just don't think it's all that clever. These kinds of 'pro' and 'con' decisions are the bread and butter of game design. I don't think converting weapons into a currency is especially inspired either. In fact, given the rest of the game, it feels lazy and underdeveloped: it's easy to imagine a system that makes more sense within the world, with different types of weapons interacting with the world systems in different ways: brittle metals that shatter in the cold, untreated metals, like iron, that rust when you get them wet, steel swords that get too hot to handle in the desert. Rusted swords could be polished up to make them sharp again, you could find some kind of 'oven mits' to handle hot swords in the desert.

Then you open up the chance to consider things like tempering an iron sword with coal and heat to make a steel sword. Creating alloys like bronze or brass from base materials.... And this is just me spit-balling on a game forum.

With the exception of catching lightning during a storm, or a fire sword heating you in the cold, weapons largely exist outside the world systems, which is a shame, because everything else works directly with these systems, giving you tools and options to mitigate for the conditions you're dealing with. Meanwhile, all weapons but one, just shatter after a fixed period, never to return and that's it, that's the depth of the mechanic. A missed opportunity in a game so reliant on emergent gameplay and system interplay.
a more in depth interaction with the chem system is always possible, but the examples you cite kinda devolve in a "red light, green light" state that, at least put into words, doesn't sound too compelling.
what i mean is that in your examples there's no actual choice.
you CANT' use brittle swords in the cold, i'll bring another
i CAN'T use iron in the desert, i'll bring other
emergent gameplay starts when there are alternative options with different pros and cons...otherwise you are only proposing an apparent choice to the player, not a real one. On the other hand, Take the cold system in botw, you can:

cover yourself
bring a fire weapon
eat spicy food

again, the choice is multiple and interact with other chioices you made in other systems (fire weapons take space in inventory, food needs resources to be cooked and it's effectiveness is limited in time and special clothes are acquired through shrines usually).

you discarded this kind of design as "bread and butter", but you would be surprised at how many games utterly fail at gameplay design this way...a big example is the first red dead redemption, where the economy system is completely fucked, shops sell you weapons and horses mainly, but both can be acquired for free for very little effort, the first just by playing since enemies drop their weapons when you kill them and kill is all you do in game, so you are bound to always be stacked on ammo and guns, the latter just with a lasso and walking like a little bit out of town to find some wild horses to tame.
And even if these were not an issue the fact that every person you kill drops money and you are constantly attacked by SOMETHING in the game, means that activities made to make you gain money are also absolutely useless....why would i spend time hunting, skinning and going to a shop to sell the pelts while i can gain the same amount of money just by traveling from point a to b because i'm bound to cross some bandit camp or something?

regardless, i'm not saying yours are bad ideas, there's always more mechanics you can add, but balancing them in a way where they work perfectly with each other and the gameplay loop "works" is anything but mundane.BOTW has been tested to death since early in development, and that's why its mechanics are so well balanced with each other...it's completely fine to not like a mechanic, but that doesn't make it bad for the game, it just doesn't make the game for you...like i said, i hate stealth, but i will never said that MGS would be better without it
 

Boy bawang

Member
Honestly I'm disappointed, because BOTW was probably my favorite game of the last decade and I expected them to do better than what they've shown.
From a technical viewpoint, they haven't made much if any progress as compared to what was a 2016 WiiU game. Quite underwhelming considering the Switch is markedly more powerful and they had many more tools at their disposal.

But more importantly, I am still not convinced that what they showed justifies 6 years of development. The new abilities are fun, besides ascent which is just bizarre and doesn't seem to serve any other purpose than padding at this point, but reusing the same map with a few sky islands here and there feels increadibly lazy considering that they didn't have to rebuild an engine and assets from the ground up. Even if there's an important underground, I sincerly doubt that the amount of new locations will get close to even 25% of the surface of hyrule. Complacent Nintendo is worst Nintendo
 

Robb

Gold Member
How would you feel?
If it’s nothing but crafting with no shrines/temples/dungeons, only a few sprinkled floating islands alà Skyward Sword and the ground map is identical to BotW:
GIF by SkySlope
 

Topher

Gold Member
I think it’s funny seeing so many people complain about the graphics of all things tbh. We’ve known it’d look like this since 2019.

It’s not somehow going to magically transform just because the producer is playing it for 10 minutes.

It is almost as if people are forgetting that Switch didn't get a new gen since the last Zelda game. The other consoles did, but Switch is on the same old hardware......and yeah, still a device with handheld constraints. The graphics are going to be rough. We already knew this.
 

BbMajor7th

Gold Member
a more in depth interaction with the chem system is always possible, but the examples you cite kinda devolve in a "red light, green light" state that, at least put into words, doesn't sound too compelling.
what i mean is that in your examples there's no actual choice.
you CANT' use brittle swords in the cold, i'll bring another
i CAN'T use iron in the desert, i'll bring other
emergent gameplay starts when there are alternative options with different pros and cons...otherwise you are only proposing an apparent choice to the player, not a real one. On the other hand, Take the cold system in botw, you can:

cover yourself
bring a fire weapon
eat spicy food

again, the choice is multiple and interact with other chioices you made in other systems (fire weapons take space in inventory, food needs resources to be cooked and it's effectiveness is limited in time and special clothes are acquired through shrines usually).

you discarded this kind of design as "bread and butter", but you would be surprised at how many games utterly fail at gameplay design this way...a big example is the first red dead redemption, where the economy system is completely fucked, shops sell you weapons and horses mainly, but both can be acquired for free for very little effort, the first just by playing since enemies drop their weapons when you kill them and kill is all you do in game, so you are bound to always be stacked on ammo and guns, the latter just with a lasso and walking like a little bit out of town to find some wild horses to tame.
And even if these were not an issue the fact that every person you kill drops money and you are constantly attacked by SOMETHING in the game, means that activities made to make you gain money are also absolutely useless....why would i spend time hunting, skinning and going to a shop to sell the pelts while i can gain the same amount of money just by traveling from point a to b because i'm bound to cross some bandit camp or something?

regardless, i'm not saying yours are bad ideas, there's always more mechanics you can add, but balancing them in a way where they work perfectly with each other and the gameplay loop "works" is anything but mundane.BOTW has been tested to death since early in development, and that's why its mechanics are so well balanced with each other...it's completely fine to not like a mechanic, but that doesn't make it bad for the game, it just doesn't make the game for you...like i said, i hate stealth, but i will never said that MGS would be better without it
My point stands - the weapons system and its degradation sits separate from the world and could have easily been integrated in more interesting ways that complement the game design. Instead, it just has a fixed degradation point, irrespective of conditions, materials, enemies, anything... to the point that it's kind of immersion-breaking. Everything else in the game world has a logic, whereas the weapons don't. It's bizarre to me to build a game world where fire and electricity propagate naturally, where wet surfaces are harder to climb and in cold climates you can heat yourself by a fire, but for no in-game reason whatsoever, make it so that a giant battle axe shatters on the head of a bokoblin.

Moreover, it's annoying. I'm playing RE4 right now and it's so similar and yet so different. I have four weapons on the go at once and I'm constantly switching between them to meet the needs of the encounter, mixing crowd control with long-range sniping, damage output with enemy types, and conserving one type of ammo for one enemy and another for another type. It constantly drives player choice and consideration in combat, influences how spend you hard-earned cash and makes the discovery of new weapons and ammunition meaningful. In BotW I felt like I was just breaking one cheap weapon after another over the heads of whatever I was fighting and saving the really cool elemental weapons for big fights, because I knew once they were gone, they'd be gone for good.
 
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ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
Well that is what they decided to show, and it sucked.

Of course the game could be packed with amazing content but how can I know, just going by what I've seen. I already bought the game so I obviously want it to be good, but that showing took most of my hype away.
What sucked? there are so many possibilities in this game. Can you fuse a tree branch with an ice element? does it make it an ice staff?

I think once people experiment with the game they will understand how big this thing is.

And I think they are holding back. They removed the shrines, 120 puzzle rooms, which is very Zelda. What did they replace it with?
 
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SaintALia

Member
Congratulations. "Doesn't look like uncanny valley" is one of the most creative excuses I've seen for crappy graphics yet. 😂



So all these developers who manage to squeeze more from the hardware later in all consoles' life cycle are miracle makers?
Miracle makers? What? Did you not read anything I say or...I clearly outlined why or how developers could get more out of limited hardware and that optimization is NOT a magic bullet. That (console especially) developers work within the confines of what the hardware and engine allows.

Actually, I don't think any of what I say actually matters to you, you already made up your mind on 'the graphics suck and it should look better', so I won't waste any more of my time.
 
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MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
First Monolith wasn't trying to make open world with Xenoblade 1-3, they already did with Xenoblade X

Second, have you forgot your original argument? people asked you to show other example of open world game on switch and you mentioned Xenoablade which is NOT open world, if played the game thats pretty damn obvious.
Yeah I dunno what they are trying to prove the only Open World Xeno game is X. 1-3 are all separated into different rooms.

Comparing it to BotW or Tears is a night and day difference.

Better examples would be Witcher 3, CP2077, Horizon, Hogwarts Legacy, Elden Ring.

Given the height from which you can fall in Tears of the Kingdom the only thing similar to it I've seen is Xeno X.
 

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
My point stands - the weapons system and its degradation sits separate from the world and could have easily been integrated in more interesting ways that complement the game design. Instead, it just has a fixed degradation point, irrespective of conditions, materials, enemies, anything... to the point that it's kind of immersion-breaking. Everything else in the game world has a logic, whereas the weapons don't. It's bizarre to me to build a game world where fire and electricity propagate naturally, where wet surfaces are harder to climb and in cold climates you can heat yourself by a fire, but for no in-game reason whatsoever, make it so that a giant battle axe shatters on the head of a bokoblin.
But they are changing it now to exactly what you're asking for. You fuse a stone and it'll make the weapon stronger, and everything will match with that. So they did fix the degradation according to how you fuse things together.
 

zcaa0g

Banned
Weapons breaking is not even realistic in non-realistic video games. Even if I bitch slapped Zelda with a mere 3/4" pipe 1 billion times, it would never break. Dumb concept.
 

GymWolf

Member
What sucked? there are so many possibilities in this game. Can you fuse a tree branch with an ice element? does it make it an ice staff?

I think once people experiment with the game they will understand how big this thing is.

And I think they are holding back. They removed the shrines, 120 puzzle rooms, which is very Zelda. What did they replace it with?
How is that different from any rpg or games with weapon customization that let you add a fire stone to add the fire element to the weapon?


Again, looking wachy why you do stuff is not like doing new stuff.


Adding elements and quirks to weapons is nothing new unless zelda is the only game you ever played, some rpg go crazy with the amount of special effects you can add to weapons.
 
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This is the first trailer that actually gave some real explanation of the new mechanics. I think they look fun to play around with and I'm sure there are going to be some very clever ways to traverse and interact with the world.
I am disappointed they are using the same map from BotW though. I mean I'm sure the sky islands will be very expansive (I hope). Maybe there will be new full scale dungeons in some of those? I think it looks good but I'm still feeling a bit skeptical. I'm not a huge fan of crafting contraptions but I do appreciate that they are doing things with the physics that you don't often see in games.

Regardless, I'm waiting on their "next-gen" version. Whatever and whenever that might be. I want to experience it in the best way possible.
My hope is that Nintendo will do the right thing and just make the upgrade free on their next console, that would do a lot to persuade me to purchase it on release and for the price they are asking. That pretty much goes for any game releasing on Switch for me now though. I need to know what their next-gen plans are before I commit to any more purchases.
 

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
How is that different from any rpg or games with weapon customization that let you add a fire stone to add the fire element to the weapon?


Again, looking wachy why you do stuff is not like doing new stuff.


Adding elements and quirks to weapons is nothing new unless zelda is the only game you ever played, some rpg go crazy with the amount of special effects you can add to weapons.
Because in this zelda when you add fire/ice/water/electricity, it also affects the world not just enemies. Not to mention, what wrong if it's similar to other RPGs?
 

GymWolf

Member
Because in this zelda when you add fire/ice/water/electricity, it also affects the world not just enemies. Not to mention, what wrong if it's similar to other RPGs?
Because people talk like it's a revolution but the reality is much different, hell you said that people don't realize how big this...

Spoiler, it is not THAT big.
 

Uiki

Member
What if this really is all there is to the game?

Like you go do more shrines, and at the end fight Ganon. No big secret thing Nintendo is hiding.

How would you feel?


If the reviews drop before release date and thats the case, I’ll cancel my preorder. New mechanics and more shrines won’t do it for me. Not at full price. Im going to need alot more story in this one too.
I mean.... It's gonna be like this, we all know it.
 
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Mozza

Member
It's funny to see how many people Nintendo has magically converted into not caring about graphics, what a bunch of baloney. Like 2% of you truely don't care, the rest are just in denial pretenders trapped in 2013 graphics by a lack of any true portable competition and Nintendo's greed.
Or it's funny to see the minority that do care, trying to make out it's more people than it actually is. Zelda breath of the wild still looks pretty decent to me, sure it's on a weaker system, but it's art style is spot on.
 
What if this really is all there is to the game?

Like you go do more shrines, and at the end fight Ganon. No big secret thing Nintendo is hiding.

How would you feel?

If the reviews drop before release date and thats the case, I’ll cancel my preorder. New mechanics and more shrines won’t do it for me. Not at full price. Im going to need alot more story in this one too.
I'd be seriously surprised if that's all it is. There has to be more to it. It doesn't take 6 fucking years to add some more shrines, new abilities, and sky islands.

Nintendo would get a fuck load of shit thrown at them if they tried pulling that and rightly so. I really can't see this being the case...there HAS to be something more than just what they've shown. I mean they have said there is a lot of new stuff they want us to discover.

What are the sky islands? They can't just be new areas to explore. They must have an explaination. I think they might be related to shrines or dungeons.
 

Davevil

Member
Some just cant get past the fact the Switch is so successful, yet is not uber powerful, as it erodes away at their argument all people care about is graphics and framerates. ;)
Who said otherwise?
Switch is a successful console
Switch is a console to develop on in 2023 must be a waking nightmare.
 

shiru

Banned
Some just cant get past the fact the Switch is so successful, yet is not uber powerful, as it erodes away at their argument all people care about is graphics and framerates. ;)
Graphic fetishist don't really care about framerate though. Most Nintendo titles run at 60fps with virtually zero drops.
 
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Switch is a console to develop on in 2023 must be a waking nightmare.
If this is the 3DS Zelda team, then actually they are probably not used to something as advanced as the Switch. This gives them a chance to use existing assets and familiarize themselves with 3D open world development.
 

Robb

Gold Member
Yeah I dunno what they are trying to prove the only Open World Xeno game is X. 1-3 are all separated into different rooms.
Yeah and I think people are absolutely kidding themselves if they say they’d rather take a sectioned world (loading between sky/ground, for example) for an incremental upgrade in visuals. Even if the visuals were on par with Xenoblade, or even slightly better, people would complain about them.
 
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th4tguy

Member
I'm still trying to get a grasp on what the resolution for this game is. It looks so blury. More so than botw but it's almost like a heavy reconstruction blur.
 

The Skull

Member
I'm still trying to get a grasp on what the resolution for this game is. It looks so blury. More so than botw but it's almost like a heavy reconstruction blur.
I'd imagine it's the poor quality bit rate of the video. BOTW was 900p. I'd assume we'll get the same here.
 

Xdrive05

Member
Hey, so, Yuzu people:

When I buy TotK digitally day 1 on Switch e-shop, can I simply install it to an SD card and then move that SD card game folder to my PC and run it at 1080p 60fps with Yuzu? Or does it take time for Yuzu to be able to play brand new games?
 
Botw graphics were bad not because the Switch. Good art style, but unimpressive visual. Some people also forget it was heavily downgraded from the first presentation.
My biggest issue was dealing with stuff like pop-in. I'd jump off a mountain into a seemingly empty patch, only to have monsters pop-in to existence as I glide down.
 

Robb

Gold Member
My biggest issue was dealing with stuff like pop-in. I'd jump off a mountain into a seemingly empty patch, only to have monsters pop-in to existence as I glide down.
Same, I really hate that stuff.. Not to mention de-spawning (or whatever you’d call it). I’m re-playing BotW and when you chase a deer/boar etc. they just fade out of existence after a while for no reason.

That’s definitely something I wish they’d fix, but I’m guessing it’ll be exactly the same this time around.
 

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
Because people talk like it's a revolution but the reality is much different, hell you said that people don't realize how big this...

Spoiler, it is not THAT big.
Because you know that? It looks to be way more impactful than adding elements to a sword in any RPG, mainly because you can do so much more than that. What happens when you add a steak to an arrow? Does it turn thing into meat?

I'm excited about the possibilities.
 

Griffon

Member
I really don't care about crafting. Crafted weapons are "fine" I guess, but it feels like a waste of dev effort.

Vehicles and the instant getting up mountain are dumb tho, those are thing that completely change the game traversal and makes climbing/riding redundant. Which is an absolute shame since exploring Hyrule by hand was what I enjoyed the most, and now it seems to be mostly gone because Aonuma loves his gimmicks and hates the core epic action-adventure feel that Zelda should be all about.
 
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kondorBonk

Member
Looks amazing to me.
I do hope more balance has been made to traversal/early game.

The Great Plateau felt perfect to me. Enemies were challanging and traversal was a puzzle. Whether that was finding the right angle to approach a cliff with limited stamina, chopping down trees to cross a ravine, or creating ice blocks to cross a lake.

You kind of loss that feeling when you got the Rivalis Gale so I hope that something like that is reserved for much later in the game and they lean heavy on the necessity of crafting/problem solving to progress.

I have zero doubt there will be dungeons/Shrine like areas where your limited to your resources. These are going to be insane. Just like how in BOTW "You can solve it that way" moments but multiplied. I remember the internet loosing its shit once someone posted flipping the tablet upside down to solve a shrine puzzle. These instances where you will have to essentially Magyver a solution are going to create a lot more of those reactions.
 
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Mozza

Member
Who said otherwise?
Switch is a successful console
Switch is a console to develop on in 2023 must be a waking nightmare.
Read my post again, I said some can't handle the Switch's success, not sure how the console is a nightmare to develop for by Nintendo's own internal development teams, as they are not chasing graphics and framerates, now I would agree with you if a multi platform developer was trying to port a modern triple AAA title to the Switch, that would be a nightmare.
 
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