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[Loxley]

I'd go for a Pixar Hobbit. I'd go for that hard. Seeing as the rights are with WB, we'll be cold and dead in the ground though.

That does sound great (a 3D animated version), I could also go for a more traditionally animated Hobbit film that looks like this.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

That does sound great (a 3D animated version), I could also go for a more traditionally animated Hobbit film that looks like this.

That's lovely.

An animation in the style of The Hobbit Graphic Novel would be welcome.

Speaking of the graphic novel, a new edition is available:

 

[WanderingWind]

I would take a great animation, but what I really wanted was for the films to be done right. I'm pretty sure this is what everybody has said though, so I'm in good company.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Man, I'm soo happy this thread got some new life breathed into it.

 

[Loxley]

Man, I'm soo happy this thread got some new life breathed into it.

You have no idea. There were a few times over the last year where this thread practically devolved into me talking to myself lol.

 

[WanderingWind]

But you are, Lox. We're all just your alts. You're posting all of this.

Wake up.

 

[BrokenFiction]

Man, I'm soo happy this thread got some new life breathed into it.

This is my favorite thread on GAF. I don't post much, but I read everything. In college, I wanted to be a Tolkien Scholar(?!) So glad you're back ED, and my best wishes to you.

 

[Aylinato]

That's lovely.

An animation in the style of The Hobbit Graphic Novel would be welcome.

Speaking of the graphic novel, a new edition is available:

http://i.imgur.com/bjiZmr7.jpg?1[IMG][/QUOTE]


You missed a thread about marvel characters vs middle earth btw

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

You missed a thread about marvel characters vs middle earth btw

Hardly a thread worth remembering

 

[Edmond Dantès]

One of my favourite Tolkien threads from the past is the "Does Gandalf even have powers?" That was a hoot.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

One of my favourite Tolkien threads from the past is the "Does Gandalf even have powers?" That was a hoot.

 

[Red Mage]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieneHJlS_8E

Just sharing it, as it's one of my favorite lecturers about Tolkien ever. = x

*edit* Just be aware the guy HATES what Jackson did with the books.

 

[GDGF]

His fastidious nature would probably see him dismiss much modern fantasy, especially those derivative of his work. He would most probably take a detached scholarly viewpoint as he tended to do later on in his life with his own work. One of the reasons he was never able to finish the Silmarillion to his satisfaction.

But, he did read for pleasure and even liked Mary Renault's historical fiction novels, so that is a possible indication of where his reading pleasures would lie as there is a cornucopia of historical fiction now.

I'm late to the party but welcome back!

 

[The Artful Dodger]

You have no idea. There were a few times over the last year where this thread practically devolved into me talking to myself lol.

But you are, Lox. We're all just your alts. You're posting all of this.

Wake up.

You have no idea. There were a few times over the last year where this thread practically devolved into me talking to myself lol.

 

[Loxley]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieneHJlS_8E

Just sharing it, as it's one of my favorite lecturers about Tolkien ever. = x

*edit* Just be aware the guy HATES what Jackson did with the books.

*sigh*

"The reason I detest Peter Jackson is that he has what I consider to be an infantile appreciation for Tolkien." Oh man, I love hearing this kind of snobbery from purists. If this guy watched any of the Appendices of The Lord of the Rings films (he obviously hasn't or wouldn't), he would see how wrong he is. "Peter Jackson clearly sees The Lord of the Rings as sword and sworcery" - did we even watch the same damn movies? This guy really strikes me as one of those Tolkien enthusiasts who went in determined to dislike what he saw since nobody in Hollywood could ever "get" the brilliance of Tolkien.

Does he also post on the Barrow Downs forums by any chance?

 

[Edmond Dantès]

You have no idea. There were a few times over the last year where this thread practically devolved into me talking to myself lol.

This reminds of Tolkien talking to himself through one of his own characters:

From Ulmo to Turgon, "Love not too well the work of thy hands, and the devices of thy heart".

Not to keep a hold, but to be able to let go. It's just what Feanor cannot do, nor Thingol, nor Frodo. Tolkien himself with the Silmarillion material. If he had heeded the advice, maybe, possibly The Silmarillion would be viewed very differently by the literary world.

 

[Loxley]

This reminds of Tolkien talking to himself through one of his own characters:

From Ulmo to Turgon, "Love not too well the work of thy hands, and the devices of thy heart".

Not to keep a hold, but to be able to let go. It's just what Feanor cannot do, nor Thingol, nor Frodo. Tolkien himself with the Silmarillion material. If he had heeded the advice, maybe, possibly The Silmarillion would be viewed very differently by the literary world.

I'm actually working my way (slowly) through the Silmarillion again, just at the point where Melkor has destroyed Illuin and Ormal. Of all the places in the Silmarillion I would love to see realized in a live-action sense, Utumno and Almaren are near the top.

This painting of Illuin by Ted Nasmith is one of my favorites of his:

 

[Red Mage]

*sigh*

"The reason I detest Peter Jackson is that he has what I consider to be an infantile appreciation for Tolkien." Oh man, I love hearing this kind of snobbery from purists. If this guy watched any of the Appendices of The Lord of the Rings films (he obviously hasn't or wouldn't), he would see how wrong he is. "Peter Jackson clearly sees The Lord of the Rings as sword and sworcery" - did we even watch the same damn movies? This guy really strikes me as one of those Tolkien enthusiasts who went in determined to dislike what he saw since nobody in Hollywood could ever "get" the brilliance of Tolkien.

Does he also post on the Barrow Downs forums by any chance?

No, but he used to be the editor of Mythlore. He can come off as a snob, but several of his complaints are pretty valid. Particularly his dislike of the Two Towers ending, and how extending Helm's Deep makes it glorify war in a way Tolkien would've hated.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

No, but he used to be the editor of Mythlore. He can come off as a snob, but several of his complaints are pretty valid. Particularly his dislike of the Two Towers ending, and how extending Helm's Deep makes it glorify war in a way Tolkien would've hated.

This and the overemphasis on Elves are probably my biggest issues with the films. I mean, I take it for what it is and enjoy them, I just feel Jackson's telling a story as he sees it and kinda misses what Tolkien was saying in his writings.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I'm actually working my way (slowly) through the Silmarillion again, just at the point where Melkor has destroyed Illuin and Ormal. Of all the places in the Silmarillion I would love to see realized in a live-action sense, Utumno and Almaren are near the top.

This painting of Illuin by Ted Nasmith is one of my favorites of his:

Truly Arda as it should have been.

In terms of places I'd like to see realised; the three great capital cities of the Elven Kingdoms of the First Age, and Numenor at it's zenith, especially in the manner Tolkien described with Ancient Egyptian influence.

Enjoy your read of The Silmarillion.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

I read the Silmarillion when I was younger and I was amazed by it, but realized it was beyond me to fully appreciate at that time in my life. I think that's my next book to crack open and try again.

 

[RukusProvider]

Welcome back Edmond!

While you were on sabbatical, I did the audio book of The Silmarillion. The narrator could have been better (esp coming form Game of Thrones audio books) but loved the content.

I'd love for someone like HBO to do 7-8 seasons of it with a reasonable budget.

Only change I'd make is not having the Valar being so emo!

 

[bengraven]

As a side note, Christopher may not have always made the right moves when protecting his father's legacy, but I think the world would have been a darker place with a Hobbit Saturday morning cartoon, Star Wars-like EU and many darker things that might have come to pass without his steadfast stewardship.

Didn't Tolkien at one point want to share the world with others, though? Have them make new songs, etc? I seem to remember him saying something to effect of Middle-Earth becoming something that would grow without him someday.

 

[Loxley]

No, but he used to be the editor of Mythlore. He can come off as a snob, but several of his complaints are pretty valid. Particularly his dislike of the Two Towers ending, and how extending Helm's Deep makes it glorify war in a way Tolkien would've hated.

I'll openly admit that I tend to get a bit defensive of some of Jackson's changes from the source material since his films are what got me into Tolkien. I'm a hardcore fan in the complete opposite way that purists usually are (meaning they read the books first), so I tend to look at the films in a very different light then they do. I'm sure he has a number of criticisms that I'd completely agree with, it just the way he goes about saying them is very off-putting.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I read the Silmarillion when I was younger and I was amazed by it, but realized it was beyond me to fully appreciate at that time in my life. I think that's my next book to crack open and try again.

The scope of it all is one of the reasons why I'm so fond of it and just think how much more Tolkien had in mind for it. Flirting with Ragnarok like scenarios, one with Fionwe the son of Manwe (who would eventually be rewritten as Eonwe, the Herald of Manwe) battling a rejuvenated Melkor and the other with Turin battling and killing Melkor, triggering the destruction of Arda and the birth of a second Arda. Not to mention, a more detailed Second Age and a more detailed account of the voyage of Earendil.

Welcome back Edmond!

While you were on sabbatical, I did the audio book of The Silmarillion. The narrator could have been better (esp coming form Game of Thrones audio books) but loved the content.

I'd love for someone like HBO to do 7-8 seasons of it with a reasonable budget.

Only change I'd make is not having the Valar being so emo!

It's good to be back.

That's one of the issues Tolkien had with the Valar, the balance between power and influence.

 

[WanderingWind]

Didn't Tolkien at one point want to share the world with others, though? Have them make new songs, etc? I seem to remember him saying something to effect of Middle-Earth becoming something that would grow without him someday.

I don't know. If only we had a expert on hand...

But even if that were true, I can't think of a single author living that could do Middle Earth any sense of justice. Martin would be too enamored with jamming griminess into every corner, Sanderson is entertaining in a comic book fashion, Mieville would want to make analogies to the real world and Gaimin would try to be cute and quirky.

Filmmakers would be a better bet, but I mean, we're not due for a remake of those for another...20 years?

Now, let's talk about a Silmarillion-based HBO series...

I'll openly admit that I tend to get a bit defensive of some of Jackson's changes from the source material since his films are what got me into Tolkien. I'm a hardcore fan in the complete opposite way that purists usually are (meaning they read the books first), so I tend to look at the films in a very different light then they do. I'm sure he has a number of criticisms that I'd completely agree with, it just the way he goes about saying them is very off-putting.

Purists can be the worst fans. I read the books constantly. Like, I haven't stopped reading them ever. And the LotR movies have been watched in the Wind household every year since they came out.

 

[Loxley]

I don't know. If only we had a expert on hand...

But even if that were true, I can't think of a single author living that could do Middle Earth any sense of justice. Martin would be too enamored with jamming griminess into every corner, Sanderson is entertaining in a comic book fashion, Mieville would want to make analogies to the real world and Gaimin would try to be cute and quirky.

Filmmakers would be a better bet, but I mean, we're not due for a remake of those for another...20 years?

Now, let's talk about a Silmarillion-based HBO series...

My only concern with an HBO mini-series of the Silmarillion is that there are a few events that I simply have no idea how the heck you'd depict them well on a TV budget. Particularly the destruction of Númenor, even with HBO money that would be quite a feat to pull off. I honestly think Akallabêth itself could make for it's own mini-series, much less the Silmarillion as a whole.

 

[bengraven]

I'll openly admit that I tend to get a bit defensive of some of Jackson's changes from the source material since his films are what got me into Tolkien. I'm a hardcore fan in the complete opposite way that purists usually are (meaning they read the books first), so I tend to look at the films in a very different light then they do. I'm sure he has a number of criticisms that I'd completely agree with, it just the way he goes about saying them is very off-putting.

Personally I don't have any issues with the changes, coming from a book reader. Much like Game of Thrones, I watch to enjoy how things have changed, though with Hobbit being much shorter I find the changes a bit more jarring.

That said, I personally only look down on the changes that I feel Jackson put in the film to make them more "tropey". He felt we needed certain beats from a film, but i think they would have been successful without them.

- Aragorn "dying" in two towers - the battle with the wargs would have been fine, but the death scene and the reunion was not necessary
- Aragorn finally "accepting" his destiny
- the company being attacked by Beorn
- the battle at the trees - the single worst thing to happen in all five films
- the oathbreakers wiping up the battlefield

 

[Htown]

But even if that were true, I can't think of a single author living that could do Middle Earth any sense of justice. Martin would be too enamored with jamming griminess into every corner, Sanderson is entertaining in a comic book fashion, Mieville would want to make analogies to the real world and Gaimin would try to be cute and quirky.

I can't think of anything that seems dumber than the plot we're getting with the Shadows of Mordor game, but maybe I just haven't read the part of the Silmarillion where you can like, fuse with a wraith when you're dying to get superpowers.

 

[Red Mage]

This reminds of Tolkien talking to himself through one of his own characters:

From Ulmo to Turgon, "Love not too well the work of thy hands, and the devices of thy heart".

Not to keep a hold, but to be able to let go. It's just what Feanor cannot do, nor Thingol, nor Frodo. Tolkien himself with the Silmarillion material. If he had heeded the advice, maybe, possibly The Silmarillion would be viewed very differently by the literary world.

The biggest problem with the Silmarillion was that the LotR changed things in the Silmarillion and he was too old at that point to do the work needed to make it all flow together. Remember that Tolkien had a weird way of writing, where he'd start from scratch whenever he ran into a serious issue within the story.

This and the overemphasis on Elves are probably my biggest issues with the films. I mean, I take it for what it is and enjoy them, I just feel Jackson's telling a story as he sees it and kinda misses what Tolkien was saying in his writings.

He really does. I understand things have to change when the medium changes, but some of it is basically taking the message in the completely opposite direction.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

The scope of it all is one of the reasons why I'm so fond of it and just think how much more Tolkien had in mind for it. Flirting with Ragnarok like scenarios, one with Fionwe the son of Manwe (who would eventually be rewritten as Eonwe, the Herald of Manwe) battling a rejuvenated Melkor and the other with Turin battling and killing Melkor, triggering the destruction of Arda and the birth of a second Arda. Not to mention, a more detailed Second Age and a more detailed account of the voyage of Earendil.

I remember being completely amazed and loving every moment of it when I read it, and it's really filled me with a love for myths, the older sagas and epics he himself was drawing from. That being said, as an adult, I have yet to pick up the book. It's going to be great posting here my thoughts about that.

 

[WanderingWind]

My only concern with an HBO mini-series of the Silmarillion is that there are a few events that I simply have no idea how the heck you'd depict them well on a TV budget. Particularly the destruction of Númenor, even with HBO money that would be quite a feat to pull off. I honestly think Akallabêth itself could make for it's own mini-series, much less the Silmarillion as a whole.

I could be okay with that. But HBO budgets are insane and CGI and green screens are a thing. I personally would love a setting where man was nowhere to be found. Honestly, I think I'm just so disappointed in DoS that I'm looking forward to anything that isn't that.

I can't think of anything that seems dumber than the plot we're getting with the Shadows of Mordor game, but maybe I just haven't read the part of the Silmarillion where you can like, fuse with a wraith when you're dying to get superpowers.

Okay, well maybe anything. Jesus christ at this game. Super ninja magic wraith powers is sacrilegious. This is the shit that Tolkien would have worried about, if he ever had a frame of reference to frame video games with.

 

[Red Mage]

I'll openly admit that I tend to get a bit defensive of some of Jackson's changes from the source material since his films are what got me into Tolkien. I'm a hardcore fan in the complete opposite way that purists usually are (meaning they read the books first), so I tend to look at the films in a very different light then they do. I'm sure he has a number of criticisms that I'd completely agree with, it just the way he goes about saying them is very off-putting.

I don't mind it too much since I'm not a huge fan of the films, but most of the complaints he has deals with Jackson changing things which changes the message of the story. The guy's not a purist in the sense of "CHANGE NOTHING" but more along the lines of changing the creator's message. To that extent, I believe it's perfectly valid to be critical of the films.

 

[Loxley]

With all this talk of Tolkien's messages and such, I was reminded that there was initially a part of the OP that I wanted to include but didn't have the room, which was "Documentaries on Tolkien".

Granted it's a fairly short list, but there's some good stuff available on YouTube (bare in mind, they're all 10+ years old and not the best quality uploads):

- J.R.R. Tolkien '1892-1973' - A Study Of The Maker Of Middle-earth (narrated by Judi Dench) - Lots of great footage of Christopher Tolkien discussing his father and his writings.
- British Authors in Their Own Words - J.R.R. Tolkien (Part 1), Part 2 - BBC
- Middle-Earth's Secrets: Tolkien's Lord of the Rings- The Fellowship of the Ring - Ignore the awful metal intro. Also, coincidentally, this three-part series features Graham McTavish (Dwalin) reading some passages from the book.
- Middle-Earth's Secrets: Tolkien's Lord of the Rings- The Two Towers
- Middle-Earth's Secrets: Tolkien's Lord of the Rings- Return of the King
- J.R.R. Tolkien: Master Of Middle Earth - BBC
- J.R.R. Tolkien - Creator of Middle-earth - This one is from the the LotR Appendices

This may be a bit weird, but I love how Christopher Tolkien pronounces "Silmarillion".

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Didn't Tolkien at one point want to share the world with others, though? Have them make new songs, etc? I seem to remember him saying something to effect of Middle-Earth becoming something that would grow without him someday.

Yes indeed. He had this to say in Letter #131, also included in the second edition of The Silmarillion.

Do not laugh! But once upon a time (my crest has long since fallen) I had a mind to make a body of more or less connected legend, ranging from the cosmogonic, to the level of romantic fairy story - the largest founded on the lesser in contact with the earth, the lesser drawing splendour from vast backcloths - which I could dedicate simply to England; to my country. It should posses the tone and quality that I desired, somewhat cool and clear, be redolent of 'our' air (the clime and soil of the North West, meaning Britain and the hither parts of Europe: not Italy or the Aegean, still less the East), and while possessing (if I could achieve it) the fair elusive beauty that some call Celtic (though it is rarely found in genuine ancient Celtic things), it should be 'high', purged of the gross, and fit for the more adult mind of a land now steeped in poetry. I would draw some of the great tales in fullness, and leave many only placed in the scheme, and sketched. The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and yet leave scope for other minds and hands wielding paint and music and drama. Absurd."

With all this talk of Tolkien's messages and such, I was reminded that there was initially a part of the OP that I wanted to include but didn't have the room, which was "Documentaries on Tolkien".

Granted it's a fairly short list, but there's some good stuff available on YouTube (bare in mind, they're all 10+ years old and not the best quality uploads):

- J.R.R. Tolkien '1892-1973' - A Study Of The Maker Of Middle-earth (narrated by Judi Dench) - Lots of great footage of Christopher Tolkien discussing his father and his writings.
- British Authors in Their Own Words - J.R.R. Tolkien (Part 1), Part 2 - BBC
- Middle-Earth's Secrets: Tolkien's Lord of the Rings- The Fellowship of the Ring - Ignore the awful metal intro. Also, coincidentally, this three-part series features Graham McTavish (Dwalin) reading some passages from the book.
- Middle-Earth's Secrets: Tolkien's Lord of the Rings- The Two Towers
- Middle-Earth's Secrets: Tolkien's Lord of the Rings- Return of the King
- J.R.R. Tolkien: Master Of Middle Earth - BBC
- J.R.R. Tolkien - Creator of Middle-earth - This one is from the the LotR Appendices

This may be a bit weird, but I love how Christopher Tolkien pronounces "Silmarillion".

Good stuff Loxley.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

I can't think of anything that seems dumber than the plot we're getting with the Shadows of Mordor game, but maybe I just haven't read the part of the Silmarillion where you can like, fuse with a wraith when you're dying to get superpowers.

That honestly seems like a company that are jonesing for the Game of Thrones license super super hard.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

In terms of the quote above from Letter 131; Tolkien lived to see and approve 'paint' via Pauline Baynes' artwork and 'music' via Carey Blyton's Hobbit Overture. As for 'drama', all we can do is speculate.

 

[Loxley]

With all this new-found energy among TolkienGAF, if anyone else is interested, I'd be all for organizing some sort of group-Tolkien read. Could be The Hobbit, any particular entry of The Lord of the Rings, The Silmarillion, or it could even be something not related to Middle-earth like his King Arthur book that came out last year. We'd read something like one chapter a week, and discuss it as we go along. It would probably require it's own dedicated thread, but we could encourage non-regulars of the Tolkien threads to participate if they've never actually read any of the books but might be interested in doing so.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

With all this new-found energy among TolkienGAF, if anyone else is interested, I'd be all for organizing some sort of group-Tolkien read. Could be The Hobbit, any particular entry of The Lord of the Rings, The Silmarillion, or it could even be something not related to Middle-earth like his King Arthur book that came out last year. We'd read something like one chapter a week, and discuss it as we go along. It would probably require it's own dedicated thread, but we could encourage non-regulars of the Tolkien threads to participate if they've never actually read any of the books but might be interested in doing so.

I'd be interested in joining in. I think either The Lord of the Rings or The Silmarillion would provide for more discussion than The Hobbit or the fairy tales.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

I've never properly read The Silmarillion. It's staring at me from my bookcase now. I feel neither like watching a movie or playing games tonight, might give it a go. It's surprisingly thin.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

By strange Providence. I just picked up the Silmarillion!

It'd be great to read that with everybody!

 

[Loxley]

I'd be interested in joining in. I think either The Lord of the Rings or The Silmarillion would provide for more discussion than The Hobbit or the fairy tales.

Good point, The Silmarillion also seems to be the book that a lot of people either started to read but never finished, or want to read but haven't because it's slightly intimidating.

 

[WanderingWind]

Silmarillion sounds good to me.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Speaking of The Silmarillion.

Here's some concept art from the cancelled Fall of Gondolin fan film.

A synopsis.

During the First Age of Middle-earth, in the Lands of Beleriand, the shadow of the Dark Lord Morgoth is growing : he has divided the Elves, and only Turgon, the last Elven king, poses a threat to his ultimate victory. While Morgoth is about to find out the location of Gondolin, all hopes rely on Tuor, a human, and his guide named Voronwë, a shipwrecked elf orginating from the city of Gondolin.

A video diary by Dimitri before the cancellation.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1503vh_storm-over-gondolin-video-diary-1_shortfilms?start=51

Dimitri Frank speaking in September 2013.

We come to you today with some sad news. The Tolkien Estate, the legal body which manages the rights to Tolkien’s works, has asked us to immediately cease working on the movie Storm over Gondolin. Like you, we are extremely disappointed to have to stop the production of a movie inspired by Tolkien’s legendarium. However, the entire team is staying on board and we are more excited than ever by the opportunity to create a new world inspired by the ancient mythologies. Much of our work still stands, and we are therefore announcing the production of a new fantasy film where you will find elves and orcs in an original universe. Thank you for your support and your fidelity ; a new step in our journey is beginning, and it is for you that we are taking it!

Unlike Born of Hope and The Hunt for Gollum (which the Estate had no say on), this project veered into the Estate's territory and was vanquished quite abruptly. Shame, as it looked quite decent.

 

[Ingueferroque]

Why is the art accompanying the original publications so good.

 

[Loxley]

Why is the art accompanying the original publications so good.

Tolkien was indeed quite the artist.

 

[Mumei]

Recovering from a loss my friend.

I'm glad you're back. I was worried about you.

And it's great to see this thread moving again.

 

[Ingueferroque]

Tolkien was indeed quite the artist.

I had no idea he drew some of these himself... amazing!

 

[Adnor]

It's great to see you again, Edmond! I never posted in this thread because I'm a Tolkien noob (Only have readed LotR and The Hobbit) but it's easily one of my favorites threads because of your posts

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Tolkien was indeed quite the artist.

This is my personal favourite.

I can image crossing the bridge, walking up the hilly, undulating path, breathing in the sweet fragrance of the cultivated countryside, saying hello to my favourite tree and stepping into my comfy, but not too outlandish hobbit hole, and sitting down for a nice cup of tea.

I'm glad you're back. I was worried about you.

And it's great to see this thread moving again.

Thank you for your concern. As someone once said, he who has felt the deepest grief is best able to experience supreme happiness. We must have felt what it is to die, that we may appreciate the enjoyments of living.

It's great to see you again, Edmond! I never posted in this thread because I'm a Tolkien noob (Only have readed LotR and The Hobbit) but it's easily one of my favorites threads because of your posts

Thank you.