Lynd7
Member
Hmm
It's the only spot it happens, via HDMI and RGB. Also appears to start off barely noticable but slowly gets worse to a certain extent.
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The Nintendo 64 Appreciation/Collecting/Emulation Thread.
- Thread starter Seik
- Start date
Hmm
It's the only spot it happens, via HDMI and RGB. Also appears to start off barely noticable but slowly gets worse to a certain extent.
Hmm, it does it in these videos as well.Hmm
It's the only spot it happens, via HDMI and RGB. Also appears to start off barely noticable but slowly gets worse to a certain extent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx_Oapk_ydI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih7TJjYoLvA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82Yos3iF1cw
It gets really bad for you later?
Lynd7
Member
It gets to a certain level then stops.
Hmm, well for now I wouldn't worry about it, if only it becomes severe you should do something.
Lynd7
Member
Yeah, I'll keep an eye on it, it's just a weird glitch to me. It's only on that screen (At least that I can see) and sort of ramps up in severity. I hadn't seen it before either and I used to leave Mario 64 running on that sometimes.
Here's a direct feed in case anyone wants to check it from a cleaner source.
(Actually download file for full quality)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-T8klYBwbcTZjhKUnlVYmxiZ0k/view
I dunno if it depends on the quality of the pictures/video output, but I think it looks significantly better on your 55.
Lynd7
Member
I tried to take some pics that would give a good idea. To me, they look quite close, the CRT has an edge in terms of motion, but that's more down to LCD tech I think.
It looks about as good as the CRT with scanlines on, playable and nice looking. Plus, being able to have more options for the future is great.
It really does look just as good, judging from those pics, if not a bit sharper (which makes it even better at my eyes).
elmalloc
Member
It looks like you're almost playing with Retro mode settings. Overscan, I'm guessing, messes up the pixel dimensions, so I don't use it.
I noticed in some sharp pixel modes, an artifact on Mario's head would appear but I didn't see it during gameplay. It looks like you're seeing it in all modes though, so probably not related?
I was in scanline/retro mode early on, too. I swapped out it of it a week later to have no scanlines. The no scanline look on my 720p looks better than the no scanline look on my 1080p.
Also, related to the movement comment, I think pictures look better than the Ultra HDMi does in movement (if you have vi de-blur set to ON). Just a lot of pixels moving around....
After watching MLIG's NES integer scaling video, I would like scaled pixels to take up integers and not half integers. I bet a lot of what we see in side scrolling 2D problems with half integer scaling is worse in 3D.
Lynd7
Member
Yeah, I'm still going back and forth with sharp pixels and de-blur. Overall though I think the scanlines make it look better. Although, I may prefer F-Zero with the image a bit sharper. I'm currently playing Mario 64 with no overscan, I couldn't see much if any picture quality loss with the overscan, but I guess it's probably a bit sharper.
Some games we may want to use a bit of overscan though cause they had less of an active picture.
A smaller screen probably helps a bit too. Maybe a computer monitor with lower motion blur would be nice as well.
shanafan
Member
Here's yet another comparison from that thread with AA on(top) and AA off(bottom):
How's the mod been working out for you?
MikeHattsu
Member
One would think it's the amount of scan lines:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC#Lines_and_refresh_rate
elmalloc
Member
Agreed. There are some games where overscan could be used better, Mario 64 didn't seem to need it.
I do notice on my 720p set, Sharp Pixels (integer) results in a very small image (think 20" image on 50" TV). On my 1080p it's not nearly as small looking, something to do with the algorithm being used I suppose. I don't use sharp pixels because of that. Certainly, the smaller image looks "better" though.
I'm satisfied with basically just vi-deblur ON (no sharp pixels, no scanlines). I've come to be OK with 3D pixels, initially it was a bit of a shock that scanlines seemed to help with. I now look at the N64 as simply a 3D SNES, lol.
It's quite finicky at times as it's difficult to even display a picture, though some of my games don't work so that could be a factor, but when it does work I do love it. I need to test more games though as I also been into using component cables for my PSP.
I don't have a UltraHDMI, just an RGB modded one. I might look into UltraHDMI in the future if it's cheaper and/or more widespread.
Ah, my mistake. Don't know why I thought you did the HDMI mod.
Here's Wave Race 64 from my RGB modded N64.
Here's how it looks in 240p, clean I'll say:
And a little of Rampage World Tour.
Here's how it looks in 240p, clean I'll say:
And a little of Rampage World Tour.
It's ok, it would be epic if I did get it as I would test the hell out of it!
Once I get more games in I'll be doing a lot of screenshots.
I also wish more people here would get into direct capture, I vastly prefer that over taking screens off camera from a TV/monitor.
Ah, well, I need to play Super Mario 64 again and see if that happens with my RGB N64.
I also wish more people here would get into direct capture, I vastly prefer that over taking screens off camera from a TV/monitor.
ResidentDante
Member
Here's yet another comparison from that thread with AA on(top) and AA off(bottom):
That bottom pic looks like something from a PlayStation magazine in the 90's
"Mario Kart 64 coming to PSX! Graphics look just as good!!!"
Then you purchase the game and it looks even shittier still.
The PS1 still wouldn't have textures that smooth though.
elmalloc
Member
Is elgato the way to go, or is there something better? $150 is not bad for 1080p but I thought I heard weird things with elgato and the framemeister. Let me know of other choices if you know of any, otherwise I'll go with an Elgato. My birthday is soon and my parents gave me some money, lol. I can direct capture Ultra HDMI N64 and other things people are looking for, then.
I don't own any capture devices, but from what I've seen from users who post up captures from el gato, it's a pretty good device. Though I still think it's lacking for high end and sensitive PQ comparisons. I would like to see a capture device that can internally process in 4:4:4 at least for lossless RGB footage capture. This would be great for more solid picture quality comparisons. Full control of YUV formats would be ideal.
I rather go with Avermedia or Startech than Elgato, Elgato doesn't even support the best capture software ever, AmarecTV. And you don't want USB 2.0 when doing direct capture, you want USB 3.0 or PCI-E cards like the ones I listed.
Opinions of F-Cup Maniax/Fighter Destiny 2 and G.A.S.P.!! Fighters NEXTream?
Judging from a couple of random YouTube playthrougs I just watched, neither of those features a proper story mode - with characters endings and such things - which is what I was looking for, tbh. Are the two games still worthy, for some pick-up and play fun?
Judging from a couple of random YouTube playthrougs I just watched, neither of those features a proper story mode - with characters endings and such things - which is what I was looking for, tbh. Are the two games still worthy, for some pick-up and play fun?
There is no reason why you should get GASP, game is pretty bad.
Fighter Destiny 2 is a good purchase especially if you don't have FD1 (the point system is very original and the heart of the game/series).
Don't expect great graphics though.
^ Thanks!
Yeah, only reason I mentioned G.A.S.P.!! is because I've always been kinda interested in those anime graphics/illustrations from the Japanese release. I honestly had no clue about the game itself... It looked pretty barebones, on that YT video.
FD2 would be my first one in the series (I'd probably want to track down the first episode too, for collecting purposes), and its unique mechanics, once again, have a certain appeal on me. I may keep it on my buy list.
Yeah, only reason I mentioned G.A.S.P.!! is because I've always been kinda interested in those anime graphics/illustrations from the Japanese release. I honestly had no clue about the game itself... It looked pretty barebones, on that YT video.
FD2 would be my first one in the series (I'd probably want to track down the first episode too, for collecting purposes), and its unique mechanics, once again, have a certain appeal on me. I may keep it on my buy list.
Lynd7
Member
I picked up an Elgato HD, might have been better with something else, but my friends worked fine for me anyway.
I'll try and do a quick video over the next day or so.
elmalloc
Member
Timu - is there a capture thread you know about in NEOGAF? I imagine so, but couldn't find anything. I googled and found something else called BlackMagic Intensity Pro.
From what I read, Avermedia is better for live streaming (no audio/video sync issues) but ElGato has better quality for local recordings (for YouTube) - supposedly the video quality is better. Any thoughts on that?
This is the closest one when it comes to taking screenshots of Gen 7 and older and it's dead. I don't know any that are just about only using capture cards for all Gens of gaming, though someone would have to make a thread like that.
I don't know who said that about the Elgato but most uses USB 2.0, meaning there will be compression in both direct feed screenshots and video. There is no way a USB 2.0 card will offer better quality than a good PCI-E and USB 3.0 card. However, there is a PCI-E one called Elgato Game Capture HD60 Pro which is probably the only worth while one as it does x264 which is one of the best codecs for direct feed videos and since it's PCI-E it won't compress screenshots. If there's any Elgato that you need it's that one, though if you want to capture from other video connections you'll need a converter/upscaler or a different capture card, unless you are using HDMI only for this.
elmalloc
Member
Thank you for the information. I can purchase an Elgato HD60 Pro and begin capturing, and make a thread for retro gaming only. As you noted, it only captures HDMI. This will be difficult to capture Gamecube/PS2 and other Component consoles at this time, unless fed through to the Framemeister somehow.
You'll make the thread? Awesome, I will contribute a lot to it! I mean, we have a scanlines thread, might as well have one for direct capture. There are component to hdmi converters but they vary in quality. Framemeister is probably the best overall though.
A Black Falcon
Member
Yeah, turning off anti-aliasing has an obvious significant negative impact on N64 graphics, as those screenshots show, but at least you still have the texture filtering making polygons look nice and smooth, instead of all pixelated like you'd see on PS1... (Yes, I know some people like the pixelated look, but I don't, not in 3d.)
Still though, interesting stuff to see. I've heard the line 'well N64 graphics are aliased, how much good was the anti-aliasing doing' before, and this comparison here shows that yes, it IS doing something good.
sixteen-bit
Member
I found a site that makes new labels for this sort of situation. lol
elmalloc
Member
GAF needs the post "like" capability.
I just got 5 games in the mail today, and one of them has res switching between 480i for menus and 240p for gameplay...which I hate as I don't like both res switching and 480i. And that game is World Drive Championship, a N64 game that can do 480i without the expansion pak, which is rare for an N64 game.
I've been using my Gamecube controller for N64 games on an actual N64 and I prefer it to the N64 controller for them.
Also, man do some N64 games run poorly!
I've been using my Gamecube controller for N64 games on an actual N64 and I prefer it to the N64 controller for them.
Also, man do some N64 games run poorly!
elmalloc
Member
I remember I couldn't get far in DK64 because it seemed like it moved really slowly. It was either the choppy framerate or the slow movement of DK vs Banjo or Mario. I ought to try it again nowadays.
One of the better racing game on N64.
Some of the best graphics on the system.
I hated this game. The constant switching for banana collecting was so annoying.
I remembered playing that years ago!!! Gonna need to try that again once I have the expansion pak.
Yep, some screens I took!
Right.
WDC >> GT64
Lynd7
Member
Okay, here's a quick video that goes through some settings changes. Was captured at 1080p, I just uploaded the file directly from the capture.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYv1m5HXd1g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYv1m5HXd1g
Scanline + integer scaling looks spot on to when I was test playing SM 64 on a CRT via component. I suspect it's even better in person and away from capture device follies.
What capture device follies? Please list them!