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The Nintendo 64 Appreciation/Collecting/Emulation Thread.

televator

Member
What capture device follies? Please list them!

4:2:2/0 down sampling. Depending on severity, you've either halved or quartered the color resolution from a raw RGB source. If a device is really good at scaling color up or down, the issue isn't so bad (though the reality that you basically deleted so much native resolution remains), but I recon most capture devices only concern themselves with poor or decent chroma sampling methods. I genuinely doubt the vast majority of RGB captures actually look like the direct source. Even the mighty Framemeister pays the price for down sampling RGB sources.

That's the demystification of "direct/raw capture" claims, and tosses a yuuuuuuge wrench in comparisons between component and RGB sources. Component bypasses sampling and avoids further possible picture degradation directly associated with that. Guess what happens to RGB though...? Yep, it's butchering time!
 

Timu

Member
4:2:2/0 down sampling. Depending on severity, you've either halved or quartered the color resolution from a raw RGB source. If a device is really good at scaling color up or down, the issue isn't so bad (though the reality that you basically deleted so much native resolution remains), but I recon most capture devices only concern themselves with poor or decent chroma sampling methods. I genuinely doubt the vast majority of RGB captures actually look like the direct source. Even the mighty Framemeister pays the price for down sampling RGB sources.

That's the demystification of "direct/raw capture" claims, and tosses a yuuuuuuge wrench in comparisons between component and RGB sources. Component bypasses sampling and avoids further possible picture degradation directly associated with that. Guess what happens to RGB though...? Yep, it's butchering time!
Is this what you're talking about?

bandicam_2016_03_08_17_55_28_665.jpg
bandicam_2016_03_08_18_09_59_717.jpg


I took these as well.
 

televator

Member
Is this what you're talking about?

bandicam_2016_03_08_17_55_28_665.jpg
bandicam_2016_03_08_18_09_59_717.jpg


I took these as well.

Yes. I doubt most people even bother setting all this correctly. H.264 supports higher color sampling up to 4:4:4 YCbCr. That retains 100% of the data from an RGB source. However, its tough to know if your capture device is actually 4:4:4 from start to finish. There may be 2 components that simply down sample prior to picture processing (eg. deinterlace, horizontal/vertical scaling, etc...) and then upsamples back to 4:4:4

Edit: I honestly thought I was discussing this in the RGB thread. lol people in here probably like: "Da fuck is this?"
 

Lynd7

Member
I used the normal Elgato for capture.

It does prob look a bit better in person, but the video does give a good idea of what to expect.
 

Teknoman

Member
So i've got a 3DS...besides just for posterity, any reason to still play Ocarina and Majora on 64? Aside from just having a "complete" Zelda collection.
 

televator

Member
So i've got a 3DS...besides just for posterity, any reason to still play Ocarina and Majora on 64? Aside from just having a "complete" Zelda collection.

Not really. OoT especially, looks rrrrrrough on N64. Even in high res on the GameCube/Wii port. lol the higher frame rate on 3DS is fucking salvation. lol
 
The 3DS versions are big improvements but it's not like the N64 versions are bad. Especially playing them on real hardware lately (I've only spent extensive time with the GC/Wii emulated versions before, except when playing a bit on friends' N64 eons ago) I've come to appreciate them a lot more.

The 20fps isn't really that noticeable. Most of the time when you tell someone that the N64 versions mostly run at 20fps (with dips) they are surprised that it isn't higher cause they didn't notice. I think the limited camera helps it out since you're not swinging it around constantly and screen changes are fairly small between frames.

The textures & models are fine for the most part; they're better in the 3DS versions but there's a retro charm to that specific kind of shitty textures.

The gameplay is still spot on. Plus that controller is like made for these games.

I kind of want to do a run of OoT and maybe Master Quest (if I can bring myself to spend $$$ on an ED64 3.0) on N64 hardware -- I've been spoiled with the 3DS version for the last 5 years / 6 playthroughs and feel like going back to the original.
 

Lynd7

Member
There's 3. HD, HD60 and HD60 Pro(which is PCI-E and what elmalloc is getting).

Yeah, just the base model. I think the store I bought it from here in Aust only sells the HD and the HD60. I didn't really research it much beforehand, I thought my friends was cool so went with the same.

I haven't done much capturing/streaming so I figure it's good enough for now.
 

Timu

Member
Yeah, just the base model. I think the store I bought it from here in Aust only sells the HD and the HD60. I didn't really research it much beforehand, I thought my friends was cool so went with the same.

I haven't done much capturing/streaming so I figure it's good enough for now.
For what it does it's alright, but I tend to favor PCI-E and USB 3.0 for my needs. Also, read this spoiler.

elmalloc said he is making the capture card thread and I'll definitely be in that posting screens and maybe videos, though I wonder who else will post in it as well.
 
Was having issues getting video out of my UltraHDMI n64 last night but figured it out (I think the standard video out needs to be plugged in).

Anyway the standard 480p output looks miles better than the composite and then bumping it up to 1080 is so clean. So awesome.

Tried out Doom 64 which looks sharp in 1080 and I didn't notice any ghosting. Also tried Duke Nukem 64 which was less impressive but still much better than composite obviously.

1080 Snowboarding was having issues with the default auto sharp pixels as I could see it swapping between filtered and not constantly but I didn't really get to test it out with different options.

Overall pretty happy so far aside from the issues getting it to start.
 

Timu

Member
Was having issues getting video out of my UltraHDMI n64 last night but figured it out (I think the standard video out needs to be plugged in).

Anyway the standard 480p output looks miles better than the composite and then bumping it up to 1080 is so clean. So awesome.

Tried out Doom 64 which looks sharp in 1080 and I didn't notice any ghosting. Also tried Duke Nukem 64 which was less impressive but still much better than composite obviously.

1080 Snowboarding was having issues with the default auto sharp pixels as I could see it swapping between filtered and not constantly but I didn't really get to test it out with different options.

Overall pretty happy so far aside from the issues getting it to start.
Everything but RF is better than composite for N64. RGB(which I have), HDMI, even Svideo. Glad the N64 got RGB and HDMI now.
 
Yeah obviously but given my current TV doesn't have S-Video it's great to have another option. Even compared to S-Video though it's so much better.

Think I prefer the output without the scan lines turned on since the colours are much brighter and I don't mind the pixelated edges.

Keen to give it more of a try.
 

Lynd7

Member
Yeah obviously but given my current TV doesn't have S-Video it's great to have another option. Even compared to S-Video though it's so much better.

Think I prefer the output without the scan lines turned on since the colours are much brighter and I don't mind the pixelated edges.

Keen to give it more of a try.

With scanlines on, turn on the gamma boost.

Hybrid scanlines look great.
 
I used a code for $20 off $100 on eBay to pick up some complete N64 games including Space Station Silicon Valley and Scooby Doo. Looks like some pretty decent games from the impressions I saw. Been wanting them for a while and figured now would be a great time. Any Gaf opinions?

Code is CMADNESS10 if anyone is interested. Think it's only good for a couple more hours.
 
Has anyone got a Everdrive 64? If it's the non v3 model (v2 or v2.5 or earlier I guess) is the resetting to saving a big deal?

I want to get one but the v3 is $100 CAD more and that just seem crazy for saving without resetting...
 

Rongolian

Banned
Has anyone got a Everdrive 64? If it's the non v3 model (v2 or v2.5 or earlier I guess) is the resetting to saving a big deal?

I want to get one but the v3 is $100 CAD more and that just seem crazy for saving without resetting...

I have the v2.5 and the resetting is not a big deal at all.

When I first got it I definitely turned it off without resetting and lost a save at least once, but now I have to walk in front of the console to turn it off anyway, so it's just habit to hit reset then flip the switch off.
 

SKINNER!

Banned
Has anyone got a Everdrive 64? If it's the non v3 model (v2 or v2.5 or earlier I guess) is the resetting to saving a big deal?

I want to get one but the v3 is $100 CAD more and that just seem crazy for saving without resetting...

Remember that Pokemon Stadium 2 and Animal Crossing is not compatible on v2.5 and earlier. So if you care about playing those games then you might want to invest in V3.

If you don't then the resetting thing isn't a big deal at all. I personally don't find it a main issue. Sometimes during long gaming sessions I'd put a post-it next to the power switch reminding me to hit reset first but I just do it out of habit now.
 

Celine

Member
The Legend of the Mystical Ninja was one of the best SNES games. I don't think I've ever beaten it. Also, I think Ganbare Goemon on N64 was 4 players sidescroller 2D. The starring Goemon was 3D, right?
There are two "platforming" Gambare Goemon games on N64 (also there are another 2 spinoff games).
The first one, released in Japan in 1997, is a mix between Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time which is quite an unique forumula for the series (there were past Goemon game which were inspired by Zelda but not to this capacity and in full 3D).
It's a free roaming action adventure with the usual sens of humor the series is known for.
This game is single player only.

Mystical Ninja was succeeded by Goemen's Great Adventure (or Mystical Ninja 2) which is a 2.5D platform game which resemble closely the SNES classics.
This one should have a two player mode (coop).
 

Dwayne

Member
Have you guys seen this? Apparently you can remove the anti-aliasing/blurriness with an action replay code, hard to see what good it does with the crappy screenshots tho.
 

illadelph

Member
was checking out prices for some N64 games that I don't have

hmmm...Worms: Armageddon looked interesting *clicks*

latest


...I'll just run through Star Fox 64 again
 

Lynd7

Member
I've been playing Snowboard Kids recently, I think it looks pretty great with the DeBlur turned on. (Along with hybrid scanlines on.)

Also, damn is it hard to come in first. I'm trying to win Grassland and Dizzyland and the CPU feels almost impossible to avoid or get out in front of at all. The rubberbanding is annoying. Any tips?
 
I like to browse my N64 collection every now and then to remember the feeling of a youthful beating heart, hungry with hope for the future and tingling with possibilities before I played videogames in a basement till my 60th birthday and woke up dead. RIP.
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
I like to browse my N64 collection every now and then to remember the feeling of a youthful beating heart, hungry with hope for the future and tingling with possibilities before I played videogames in a basement till my 60th birthday and woke up dead. RIP.

What is this?
 
There are two "platforming" Gambare Goemon games on N64 (also there are another 2 spinoff games).
The first one, released in Japan in 1997, is a mix between Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time which is quite an unique forumula for the series (there were past Goemon game which were inspired by Zelda but not to this capacity and in full 3D).
It's a free roaming action adventure with the usual sens of humor the series is known for.
This game is single player only.

Mystical Ninja was succeeded by Goemen's Great Adventure (or Mystical Ninja 2) which is a 2.5D platform game which resemble closely the SNES classics.
This one should have a two player mode (coop).

I wanted to add that Mystical Ninja 2 (EU) / Goemon's Great Adventure (US) has a hidden 4-player co-op mode that can be unlocked by collecting all entry passes in the game, essentially 100%-ing it.
I thought it was a bit stupid to hide such a feature until after the game is completed, but this mode is not really meant for a first playthrough.
Just wanted to let you guys know.

The normal 2-Player co-op is awesome, though.
 

Linkyn

Member
My brothers got me a cartridge of Conker's Bad Fur Day as a birthday present. Unfortunately, because the game is kinda difficult to get in Europe these days, they bought an NTSC version of the game. Since I have a PAL N64, I'm now looking into getting an NTSC to PAL converter for my N64.

I was hoping someone might have a suggestion.
 

D.Lo

Member
There are two "platforming" Gambare Goemon games on N64 (also there are another 2 spinoff games).
The first one, released in Japan in 1997, is a mix between Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time which is quite an unique forumula for the series (there were past Goemon game which were inspired by Zelda but not to this capacity and in full 3D).
It's a free roaming action adventure with the usual sens of humor the series is known for.
Not really. While the Geomon games vary greatly in gameplay style, the Zelda formula has probably been the dominant gameplay style for the series. And there are even two other 3D Zelda style games (The PS2 game and one of the PS1 games).

The first two Famicom games have the Double Dragon style level based beat-em-up town thing. And the first two SNES games follow this and add platforming stages to it. But there were also the two Famicom RPGs.

After Ganbare Goemon 2 on SNES, the Goemon series largely went full-Zelda for more than half of the series entries. Ganbare Goemon 3 is basically a full-on Zelda game with platforming stages as the dungeons.

More than half of the Game Boy games (Kurofune To no Nazo, and Playstation games (Goemon Uchu Kaizoku Akogingu, Kuru nara Koi! Ayashige Ikka no Kuroi Kage) also follow this formula, as does the DS game (except it doesn't even have the platforming bits basically).

There are also almost as many traditional RPG Goemon games as there are SNES Goemon 2 style: Famicom (Goemon Gaiden 1 and 2) Game Boy (Tenguto no Gyuakushu, Mononoke Dochu Tobidase Nabe-Bugyo).
 
Not really. While the Geomon games vary greatly in gameplay style, the Zelda formula has probably been the dominant gameplay style for the series. And there are even two other 3D Zelda style games (The PS2 game and one of the PS1 games).

The first two Famicom games have the Double Dragon style level based beat-em-up town thing.
No, while you do walk around and hit people, the games have nonlinear stages you wander around, a money system, etc. It's much more like the first SNES game but without the platformer levels than a Double Dragon. Double Dragon doesn't have exploration and grinding, after all, while the first Famicom Goemon game very much does!

And the first two SNES games follow this and add platforming stages to it. But there were also the two Famicom RPGs.

After Ganbare Goemon 2 on SNES, the Goemon series largely went full-Zelda for more than half of the series entries. Ganbare Goemon 3 is basically a full-on Zelda game with platforming stages as the dungeons.

More than half of the Game Boy games (Kurofune To no Nazo, and Playstation games (Goemon Uchu Kaizoku Akogingu, Kuru nara Koi! Ayashige Ikka no Kuroi Kage) also follow this formula, as does the DS game (except it doesn't even have the platforming bits basically).

Mostly true, but still the first N64 game was quite original, considering that it released a year before OoT and thus is not an OoT clone, but a predecessor...

I would also add that the 3d Playstation game (Kurunarakoi) is not really much like a Zelda game at all; it's mostly a 3d platform-action game, with hack-and-slash combat and on-rails 3d platforming. There are towns of course, but still, it's no N64 MNSG. I haven't played the PS2 game but it is supposed to be more like that, but without any of the comedy that helped make the series great. (Oh yeah, and the 'Zelda-ish' GB game, the one that we did get here, is no good and is one of the worst Goemon games. But it IS a top-down action-adventure game, so it does count.).

Also, while it is true that Goemon 3 and Space Pirate Akoking have Zelda-style overworlds, and the first SNES Goemon also has that big overworld element, the 2d platformer levels make up significant amounts of all three games, Akoking perhaps more so than the others, so they aren't just Zelda-ish games, they are also platformers.

There are also almost as many traditional RPG Goemon games as there are SNES Goemon 2 style: Famicom (Goemon Gaiden 1 and 2) Game Boy (Tenguto no Gyuakushu, Mononoke Dochu Tobidase Nabe-Bugyo).
The first three of these are indeed menu-based RPGs, but isn't that last one a GBC version of the Goemon Mononoke Sugoroku game for the N64? If the GBC game is like the N64 game, while there is sort of RPG-ish combat, I wouldn't call the game an RPG. It's a boardgame with a weird card/RPG-style battle system.

Goemon is definitely a weird series, it's very interesting how many different gameplay styles they used. Awesome, awesome series, it's sad Konami let it die...
 

D.Lo

Member
Mostly true, but still the first N64 game was quite original, considering that it released a year before OoT and thus is not an OoT clone, but a predecessor.
That's a fair point, it beat Zelda to the 3D Zelda formula.

But it's kind of a natural evolution of the move to 3D that distinct side view/overhead view staging would change.

Basically it's somewhat related to the discussion of how platformers and adventure games somewhat merged in the move to 3D. Mario 64 is more Zelda-like than previous Mario games due to being 3D, and as such having a world to explore (Nintendo's effectively wound back Mario to more of a Crash Bandicoot/Rayman 2 style non-sprawling 'less 3D' thing with the recent 3D Marios).

Then in turn, because of this, Zelda 5 was then a lot more like Mario 64 than any previous Zelda was like the 2D Marios.

When you have a free camera and are no longer fixed at side or top view, genres somewhat blur. You can still make games with 3D graphics in the old 2D styles (like the second N64 game) but they were 'retro style' games, even back then.

No, while you do walk around and hit people, the games have nonlinear stages you wander around, a money system, etc. It's much more like the first SNES game but without the platformer levels than a Double Dragon. Double Dragon doesn't have exploration and grinding, after all, while the first Famicom Goemon game very much does!
Yes of course, it was just a shorthand description of the way the action worked.

If you can't tell the difference between Mystical Ninja for N64 and Uchū Kaizoku Akogingu I'm not sure what I can say to you.
The only other game in the series which is comparable is the episode for PS2.
One is a Zelda 3/4 clone with platforming dungeons (and other action sequences), the other is very similar to Zelda 5. Of course they're different, but the difference is the evolution from 2D to 3D blurring the distinction between platformer and top down action, just like every series faced in that move.

I've played through every single Goemon game, mostly at or near release since Ganbare Goemon 1 on SNES. Including some very painful runs in the 90s when I knew no Japanese and there were no walkthroughs. It was one of my favourite series.
 
That's a fair point, it beat Zelda to the 3D Zelda formula.

But it's kind of a natural evolution of the move to 3D that distinct side view/overhead view staging would change.

Basically it's somewhat related to the discussion of how platformers and adventure games somewhat merged in the move to 3D. Mario 64 is more Zelda-like than previous Mario games due to being 3D, and as such having a world to explore. Zelda 5 was then a lot more like Mario 64 than any previous Zelda was like the 2D Marios.
Yeah, this is true. You definitely see that genre-blurring in both Mario 64 and MNSG, I agree. What you also sere is the improvements as developers worked on 3d tech -- hitting enemies in MNSG can be kind of a pain, while OoT's lock-on system made that simple. And of course the game has fairly basic-looking graphics compared to an OoT, and is short. It is a good game though for sure, very interesting stuff and fun to play.

When you have a free camera and are no longer fixed at side or top view, genres somewhat blur. You can still make games with 3D graphics in the old 2D styles (like the second N64 game) but they were 'retro style' games, even back then.
Sure. But on that note, again, none of the PS1 games have a free camera, of course; one is 2d (Akoking), one railed 3d (Kurunarakoi), and two side-view 2.5d (the later two). Only the N64 and PS2 games have free cameras, within the series. None of the PS1 games are anything remotely like a 3d Zelda game or MNSG. Kurunarakoi definitely isn't, as I said in my last post.

Yes of course, it was just a shorthand description of the way the action worked.
I think there's a huge difference there though, if someone got NES Goemon expecting something like Double Dragon they might be disappointed... it's different.

One is a Zelda 3/4 clone with platforming dungeons, the other is very similar to Zelda 5. Of course they're different, but the difference is the evolution from 2D to 3D blurring the distinction between platformer and top down action, just like every series faced in that move.
The presence or absence of the 2d or 2.5d platforming elements makes different Goemon games feel very different from eachother, though, I would say... and quite different from Zelda games as well, since none play quite like that. So yeah, there was a Zelda influence, but a SNES Goemon 3 or Akoking are not Zelda-style games really, not when half of each game is a platformer. There is a similarity, but there is a much larger difference. They're mixed-genre titles that are both platformer and action-adventure, I guess I'd have to say. Kurunarakoi, though, that one I might call a 3d platform-beat 'em up; it's simple enough to be one...
 
So I'm playing Banjo Kazooie for the first time. It's really fantastic.

I mean I guess that's no surprise to anyone's that's played it but I'm kinda surprised at how much I'm liking it.
 
So I'm playing Banjo Kazooie for the first time. It's really fantastic.

I mean I guess that's no surprise to anyone's that's played it but I'm kinda surprised at how much I'm liking it.
I have a Tooie Cart and Banjo from Rare Replay. Havent played either game yet. I need to be in the right mood for these types of games.
 
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